Noobie dissapointed

Practice practice practice, is all it is mate, get out there and shoot what ever train comes along, or what ever you see anywhere and it will all become clear quickly.

There are some good suggestions here to give you a basis to work too, ok the lens you have is not the best on the market BUT with thr right settings you WILL get decent shots from your camera, then the more experiencewd you get you will then think about getting better lens but worry more on getting the camera to work for you at the mo.

Good luck and keep shooting,

spike
 
Keep at it mate. I'm in the same boat as you. Took some crap pics last night with my new nifty fifty. Asked for advice on here, got awesome advice and took some pics today that I'm pretty happy with, all things considered.

I think the most important thing to remember is to take photos that YOU are happy with. There will always be one where the exposure isn't bang on or some other related critique but you've got to be happy with your photos at the end of the day.

:thumbs:
 
CT said:
It's not blown white - it's a reflection on a black surface.
Click to expand...

Would have to agree with CT on that one i cant see any blown white on the train, it looks like the OP has metered on the train and got the metering correct for the train but that means anything lighter than the black train will be over exposed :thumbs:. If you try the settings most people have said then you should get on a bit better, best thing to do is get out there and practice :thumbs:
 
The 350D with the kit lens is capable of taking great train shots. As already said understanding the exposure is the start. Black locos and white or grey skies is a tough combination, shooting RAW so you can tweak afterwards will help. In those tough situations it's better to set the exposre manually. Take a meter reading from an average sort of scene and that will give you a better base light level, set the camera manually to those settings. Bear in mind you need a decent shutter speed to freeze motion. Focus should be AIServo and try to fill the frame. You should then end up with a shot like this

350D with kit lens
Img_7810c.jpg
 
Thanks Ken, if i could get anywhere between my naff attempt and your shot above id be happy
 
trencheel303 said:
he picture is overexposed and suffering bad lens abberations - that's all there is to it. It's obviously a bad copy of the 18-55 and the camera settings wrong.
Click to expand...

I'd bet the latter is being caused by the former though. Just because there is alot of over exposure going on then I really don't think you can say "Oh it's a bad copy of that lens" There is light bouncing around everywhere in that shot. Once the OP has a properly exposed shot, then that's the time to go looking at the performance of the lens and not before.

To answer the original question, don't stress too much about the settings, there is a lot of learning that goes into knowing what to use and when and a great deal of it is down to experience. So don't worry about not knowing it all straight away. Use the automated modes on the camera since that is what you are used to on your P&S. Take it everywhere and start to take note of the setting that the camera is giving you. Exposure is a combination of ISO aperture and shutter speed and with a moving subject shutter speed has to be a certain level before it will freeze a moving object. There should be a sports setting somewhere on the camera, pop it on that and try shooting moving objects, trains, cars, planes...anything to get some practice in. Make a note of the shutter speed you get nice sharp shots at. There's your baseline for some settings :) ISO, try to keep it down to 100 or 200. So that's two out of the three settings sorted already!

The last one is aperture. This controls the amount of light getting into the black box. Low light needs a low number, bright days need a high number. So plop it in the middle of the range and see how it goes. If your shots are dark then go for a lower number, too bright? go for a higher number.

See, not too difficult and you have plenty of time to practice so shoot everything and anything so that when you get an exciting one come along you can shoot it with some confidence.

Hope that helps :)
 
artyman said:
The 350D with the kit lens is capable of taking great train shots. As already said understanding the exposure is the start. Black locos and white or grey skies is a tough combination, shooting RAW so you can tweak afterwards will help. In those tough situations it's better to set the exposre manually. Take a meter reading from an average sort of scene and that will give you a better base light level, set the camera manually to those settings. Bear in mind you need a decent shutter speed to freeze motion. Focus should be AIServo and try to fill the frame. You should then end up with a shot like this

350D with kit lens
Img_7810c.jpg
Click to expand...

there be someone along in a minute to criticise your picture too!

I'm sure you're all trying to be helpful but I have to say I'm glad I never posted on here as a newbie it's almost as bad as a wedding thread.

If the OP isn't totally bewildered, confused and feeling attacked he's a better man than me!

To the OP can I suggest you read the comments about what to try and ignore all the bickering, it's not always like this!
 
smurfettes said:
Really? With the old non IS one?
I can't rate the nifty highly enough.The newer kit lens,is also excellent for the money but still think the little 50 is incredible value,and the op asked for a lens suggestion.
Click to expand...

I also have many amazing photos with the kit lens - yes the non IS one. The lens is not everything and there are other things wrong with this photo before you can realistically comment on the lens being one of them.
 
This is all getting very silly,maybe we should all try and help the op and as keirik nicely put,stop the silly bickering.We dont all have to agree,and the op actually asked for a lens suggestion.My sincere apologies if anyone is offended by my opinion of their (older version) kit lens,it certainly seems to have its fans.
 
It's not that we are offended by your opinion of the kit lens smurf, the problem is NOTHING TO DO with the lens at all so is not relevant to the OP. It's just that you are planting the seed of doubt in the OP's mind about his equipment, and this is how photographers who have all the fancy gear but no idea how to take a picture are born. We DO NOT want the OP to become one of "these" people. so let's help him get his skills dialled.

To the OP:

as already mentioned the shot is overexposed so dial down your iso to bring your shutter speed down. You probably left it on iso 1600 by accident.

This is a classic example of a tricky shot, as you exposing for a black train against a bright white sky. It helps to know that this will never be exposed properly without a few tricks. If you expose the train properly the sky will be overexposed. if you expose the sky properly the train will be underexposed! so all you can really do is find a good compromise between the two exposures. personally i would rather have the train properly exposed and the sky a little out.

the only thing i can think of to stop the sky blowing out would be to us an ND grad filter
 
smurfettes said:
This is all getting very silly,maybe we should all try and help the op and as keirik nicely put,stop the silly bickering.We dont all have to agree,and the op actually asked for a lens suggestion.My sincere apologies if anyone is offended by my opinion of their (older version) kit lens,it certainly seems to have its fans.
Click to expand...

I actually think the general consensus is that we can't recommend a lens until we can actually see what is wrong with the first one. Its not possible to tell from that picture. The OP, as advised, needs to spend some time with the camera, shooting everything and anything! Once out of the auto modes its just not possible to start shooting from the first picture and get amazing shots. It takes a little time.

I don't think anyone has been overly critical of the OP, just offered (mostly- apart from some of the bickering between posters!) sensible advice.
 
bomberman said:
the problem is NOTHING TO DO with the lens at all so is not relevant to the OP.
Click to expand...

Bomberman, the last time I checked, Chromatic abberation and very soft image are both due to lens.
 
Have a read of "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. It will explain a lot.
 
bomberman said:
It's not that we are offended by your opinion of the kit lens smurf, the problem is NOTHING TO DO with the lens at all so is not relevant to the OP. It's just that you are planting the seed of doubt in the OP's mind about his equipment, and this is how photographers who have all the fancy gear but no idea how to take a picture are born. We DO NOT want the OP to become one of "these" people. so let's help him get his skills dialled.

To the OP:

as already mentioned the shot is overexposed so dial down your iso to bring your shutter speed down. You probably left it on iso 1600 by accident.

This is a classic example of a tricky shot, as you exposing for a black train against a bright white sky. It helps to know that this will never be exposed properly without a few tricks. If you expose the train properly the sky will be overexposed. if you expose the sky properly the train will be underexposed! so all you can really do is find a good compromise between the two exposures. personally i would rather have the train properly exposed and the sky a little out.

the only thing i can think of to stop the sky blowing out would be to us an ND grad filter
Click to expand...


Thanks for the support and i guess i maybe a little offeneded and bewildered but was lost in the technical jargon several posts, i guess some of the trouble was i had to rush back to the van get the camera plonk myself down on the other line to take the shot and all the time with my back to oncoming trains, not a good idea at a 100mph line speed. To be fair having the iso at 1600 was not an accident more of an amateurish error due to my severe lack of knowledge and the time implication when i was also working.

Thanks all for all the advice, ill be sure to jot the numbers down and store them and try out on some other trains and also some fully auto shots as well.

Thanks to Emma for the pm too.

Graham.
 
I think the other issue is that focus looks to be behind the train. Was the image taken in "One Shot" mode. Moving targets should have the camera set to AI Servo and I would select only the centre point and pop that on the front of the train.
 
katbloke said:
Thanks for the support and i guess i maybe a little offeneded and bewildered but was lost in the technical jargon several posts, i guess some of the trouble was i had to rush back to the van get the camera plonk myself down on the other line to take the shot and all the time with my back to oncoming trains, not a good idea at a 100mph line speed. To be fair having the iso at 1600 was not an accident more of an amateurish error due to my severe lack of knowledge and the time implication when i was also working.

Thanks all for all the advice, ill be sure to jot the numbers down and store them and try out on some other trains and also some fully auto shots as well.

Thanks to Emma for the pm too.

Graham.
Click to expand...

If its safer you could try shooting cars driving towards you. May stop you being hit by a train. Unless you stand on a level crossing of course! ;)
 
katbloke said:
Thanks for the support and i guess i maybe a little offeneded and bewildered but was lost in the technical jargon several posts, i guess some of the trouble was i had to rush back to the van get the camera plonk myself down on the other line to take the shot and all the time with my back to oncoming trains, not a good idea at a 100mph line speed. To be fair having the iso at 1600 was not an accident more of an amateurish error due to my severe lack of knowledge and the time implication when i was also working.

Thanks all for all the advice, ill be sure to jot the numbers down and store them and try out on some other trains and also some fully auto shots as well.

Thanks to Emma for the pm too.

Graham.
Click to expand...

Have a play with this camera simulator you can see the effect on the image as you change the settings.
 
OK. You've recieved a lot of advise so far, but if you really want to do things right you really need to go back to basics. This is one of those shots you only get a fraction of a second to take and get right and if you miss it you miss it.

Personally I meter all this scene correctly and shoot manually, and importantly I'd keep the ISO as low as I possibly could.

If I wanted to hedge my bets, because that sky wasn't the best, I put the camera on a tripod and bracket off a few shots, then I could blend the image if neccesary afterwards.

The 18-55 is not a great lens. But its OK I suppose.

Go an buy and old school proper photography book, one that doesn't mention digital, but does explain the relationships been shutter speed, apature and ISO. and then practisce some more.
 
Took some more same area with camera on full auto.

Sky looks pale still for a lovely day but image is clearer. Well i think so anyways.

IMG_4991.jpg


IMG_4990.jpg
 
The first shot is exposed well for the darker areas including the train and and second still has a few areas a little dark.

If you are really trying to get good photos of this type in terms of exposure then there are a few things to consider.

On lens improvements could be a graduated filter and / or a polarising filter.

Post production could help by taking multiple exposures and blending in a sky that is exposed correctly. HDR will not help as you need static subjects for the multiple exposures.

Also a very important thing to consider is the time of day you are taking the photo. In the middle of the day with a bright sky then it will normally burn out, however at either end of the day the sky is more balanced with the subject so is less likely to burn out.

And last but not least... pick a day where the clouds are impressive. I often don't go out for this type of shot unless the clouds look good.

Happy shooting.
 
By the way you dont have to wait for a train to arrive to test what you've learnt.
You can also shoot the rails without a train for practise so that when the train arrives you are ready for it :)
 
katbloke said:
great having a PTS/ COSS card allows to go anywhere on the railway safely of course
Click to expand...

Well, not entirely true. I have a PTS card, but I'm only allowed to use it in connection with my duties. If I was caught lineside in full PPE, when off duty, I'd get done just like anyone else, as would any railway employee.
 
mumrar said:
Well, not entirely true. I have a PTS card, but I'm only allowed to use it in connection with my duties. If I was caught lineside in full PPE, when off duty, I'd get done just like anyone else, as would any railway employee.
Click to expand...


Well yes PTS only allows you to walk, but as im working right there at that crossing im ok to be there and with IWA its even better
 
As a total newbie I'd suggest (before you actually start doubting your lens).

1. Go and take the same sort of shots at different settings of ISO and note the shutter speeds on them all.

2. Repeat with different metering modes (manual as well) and make sure that the Focus is set to servo.

3. Try it again at other times of the day just to see the different results with the same settings. Practicing it will get you used to "automatically" having a rough idea of what you need for various scenarios.

4. Anyone else you know into cameras might be willing to come along and show you how they'd go about the same shots. With your camera, and theirs. You can then compare result of your mehod and theirs, and their equipment versus yours. If they hhave the same lens then this may help in identifying if its a lens problem.

5. try and practice on something not quite as dangerous or "rare" over and over again, instead of trying to capture "the shot" when you're not really sure if you're doing things correctly.

Not very technical I'm afraid, but as I dont know much at all, this would be the sort of route I would take. Practice elsewhere so you're ready and practiced for the shots you really want.

As an aside, I spent about 400 pics set on ISO3200 without noticing. How I laughed :-)
 
Hi Graham. Been reading the post and comments, most are pretty fair and instructive; although they do seem a little technical. You are probably aware that exposure is basically the amount (quantity) of light hitting the sensor; there are three things which affect this and which you have control over, Shutter speed, Aperture and ISO (film speed for us old folk). Assuming you have a correct exposure set up for a picture, Aperture (A), Shutter speed (T) and film speed (I), if you change one the settings you will need to change one of the others to bring the quantity of light entering the camera back to the same level. So if you close down the lens (reduce the aperture say from F4 to F5.6, effectively halving the hole in the lens by area, not by diameter) you will need to slow the shutter speed down to allow the same quantity of light to enter the camera. If you close it down again to F8, you would slow the shutter down again, so keeping the shutter open longer to allow the same quantity of light to enter the camera through the smaller aperture. The other variable is the ISO setting, which originally described how fast a film reacted to the light hitting it, an ISO 100 film had fine silver grains, whereas an ISO400 had fewer larger silver grains which reacted to the available light quicker but were more visible, hence the term "Grainy" which is still used now to describe some pictures when shot with a high ISO. If you visualise the sensor as a tank then at low ISO it is deep, so needs and holds more light to fill it and gives you more depth and contrast and at high ISO settings the tank is shallow, needs less light to fill it but the trade off is that the quality of the light is less. So if as before you closed down the aperture from F4 to F5.8 you might want leave the shutter speed alone and increase the ISO, effectively making the tank shallower so that it needs less light to fill it (accepting there is always a trade off with quality). So back to the picture, others posted that the ISO was 1600, (a very shallow tank), so with the lens aperture set by the camera (AV mode) the quantity of light entering the camera so filling the sensor tank was controlled by the shutter speed, but as the rate at which the light entered the camera was great the tank overflowed and so the sensor was over exposed. The knack is to control the light flow to just fill the tank, correct exposure.
Your brother suggested setting the shutter speed to 500, that 1/ 500th of a second, useful to freeze a quickly moving object and so reduce blurring, so having set the shutter speed you can adjust either or both of the other 2 variables, Aperture and ISO. For better image quality you are better off with a lower ISO, deeper tank and more light and have a larger lens aperture to pass the through quicker. But if your lens cannot open enough to let the quantity of light through quick enough you may need to raise the ISO setting, perhaps sacrificing a little quality for that little better exposure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top