No photographs!!!

GrittyShaker said:
That analogy doesn't really work. If you were talking loudly in the cinema, you would already be well aware that you were annoying everyone in the auditorium, without the need for one of them to tell you to shut up.

It's like saying; "I was continually punching someone in the face, and then they asked me to stop, so I respected their right".

I doubt karma really expected that taking photos in public would warrant this sort of reaction from anyone in a canoe, or indeed not in a canoe. I guess that's the point of the thread.
Click to expand...

That made me chuckle, about the face punching. But talking loudly in the cinema a lot of people don't seem to realise how loud they speak so aren't necessarily aware that it is annoying.

Regardless of whether I was in a canoe or not if someone pointed a camera at me who I didn't know I would naturally act defensive. I doubt I would politely say "please don't take a photo of me". If they asked politely I would respond politely but automatically assuming I don't mind having my photo taken is rude in itself and would illicit a rude response back from me.
 
Arkady said:
My Dad took me to the cinema one when I was a kid and was attempting to explain the plot of (I think it was something like 2001 - A Space Odyssey) the movie to his 8-year old son, when someone behind us loudly exclaimed "Do you mind, we're trying to Listen!!!"
To which my Dad replied: "I'm so sorry, if I'd known I'd have spoken up!"

Well, I laughed when I was old enough to appreciate it...
Click to expand...

Your dad was in the wrong. He should have shut the hell up!!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 
joescrivens said:
Regardless of whether I was in a canoe or not if someone pointed a camera at me who I didn't know I would naturally act defensive. I doubt I would politely say "please don't take a photo of me". If they asked politely I would respond politely but automatically assuming I don't mind having my photo taken is rude in itself and would illicit a rude response back from me.
Click to expand...

to be honest, i've had photos of me taken my strangers, more to do with my pursuits, as opposed to me being interesting !! (kiting / buggying / car club stuff)

you dont see people in canoes everyday. (Unless you are perhaps a canoeing instructor) so it is a pursuit and as such might attract attention (from eyes or lenses)

sounds like the bloke was a tw4t IMHO and i'd have fps'd him to oblivion !!

:thumbs:

perfectly good thread nonetheless :)
 
Ok, I wasn't going to debate the issue, but b****r it.

You know what, they are in public to be honest I shouldn't have to ask for permission. I've often come across the situation where at a bus stop and someone lights up a cigarette, which in turn causes me to get puffs of smoke in my face. Did they ask me permission? No. Do I expect them to? No. What do I do? I have 3 choices:

1. I could put up with the inconvenience. This is what I generally do. I don't like people smoking and it blowing in my face, but hey, it's not against the law.
2. I could ask them politely if they wouldn't mind ensuring the smoke doesn't blow in my general direction. I would expect a positive reaction from doing this.
3. I shout at them "EXCUSE ME, NO SMOKEY BESIDE ME".

Now, 3 does sound rediculous doesn't it. And that's exactly what happened in this context... except, you know what, taking a photo of something isn't bad for their health.

Let's take another scenario:

A friend of mine is a vegetarian. I cook myself a nice Bacon sambo. She doesn't agree with this because she's one helluva animal rights activist. She has 3 options:

1. Puts up with the inconvenience because hey, it's not against the law
2. Asks me politely not to eat meat around her
3. Shouts at me "NO EATING MEAT BESIDE ME!"

I could go on, but the more I think about it the more rediculous this dude is beginning to sound. There's loads of scenarios that we will gladly stay quiet and let that person get on with that thing that is not infact illegal. But just try take a photo of someone and suddenly you're a serial killer that should be locked up in seconds!!!

Damn... and I was doing so well at not being serious... better go find that batman suit.
 
Yeah, but vegetarians are all freaks...

Properly-Burnt Dead animals taste yummy, canoes just taste plasticky...
 
karmagarda said:
Ok, I wasn't going to debate the issue, but b****r it.

You know what, they are in public to be honest I shouldn't have to ask for permission. I've often come across the situation where at a bus stop and someone lights up a cigarette, which in turn causes me to get puffs of smoke in my face. Did they ask me permission? No. Do I expect them to? No. What do I do? I have 3 choices:

1. I could put up with the inconvenience. This is what I generally do. I don't like people smoking and it blowing in my face, but hey, it's not against the law.
2. I could ask them politely if they wouldn't mind ensuring the smoke doesn't blow in my general direction. I would expect a positive reaction from doing this.
3. I shout at them "EXCUSE ME, NO SMOKEY BESIDE ME".

Now, 3 does sound rediculous doesn't it. And that's exactly what happened in this context... except, you know what, taking a photo of something isn't bad for their health.

Let's take another scenario:

A friend of mine is a vegetarian. I cook myself a nice Bacon sambo. She doesn't agree with this because she's one helluva animal rights activist. She has 3 options:

1. Puts up with the inconvenience because hey, it's not against the law
2. Asks me politely not to eat meat around her
3. Shouts at me "NO EATING MEAT BESIDE ME!"

I could go on, but the more I think about it the more rediculous this dude is beginning to sound. There's loads of scenarios that we will gladly stay quiet and let that person get on with that thing that is not infact illegal. But just try take a photo of someone and suddenly you're a serial killer that should be locked up in seconds!!!

Damn... and I was doing so well at not being serious... better go find that batman suit.
Click to expand...

Neither of those analogy's are about invading someone's privacy and thats the issue with taking a photo.

A better analagy would be if you were reading the paper on the tube and someone leaned in right by your face and started reading. I doubt anyone wouldn't react defensively in that scenario.

People get very uppity when their privacy is invaded without them agreeing to it. You don't have the right to take a photo of the person who happens to be in the public space. Legally there is nothing wrong with it but you can't be shocked when the reaction you get is one that is negative.

People are basically saying, "Oi, don't invade my privacy"
 
joescrivens said:
Neither of those analogy's are about invading someone's privacy and thats the issue with taking a photo.

A better analagy would be if you were reading the paper on the tube and someone leaned in right by your face and started reading. I doubt anyone wouldn't react defensively in that scenario.

People get very uppity when their privacy is invaded without them agreeing to it. You don't have the right to take a photo of the person who happens to be in the public space. Legally there is nothing wrong with it but you can't be shocked when the reaction you get is one that is negative.

People are basically saying, "Oi, don't invade my privacy"
Click to expand...

Afraid I don't see a photograph as invading someones privacy at all. Quite frankly they are in public as it is so how am I invading their privacy? If I was peering in the window of their house, then yeah maybe. If you're walking on a public street, with 100s of other eyes, x amount of CCTV, y amount of cameras you're not aware of... invasion of privacy isn't a valid argument in my book. Not liking your photo taken, that's a different kettle of fish.
 
karmagarda said:
Afraid I don't see a photograph as invading someones privacy at all. Quite frankly they are in public as it is so how am I invading their privacy? If I was peering in the window of their house, then yeah maybe. If you're walking on a public street, with 100s of other eyes, x amount of CCTV, y amount of cameras you're not aware of... invasion of privacy isn't a valid argument in my book. Not liking your photo taken, that's a different kettle of fish.
Click to expand...

it's absolutely invading someones privacy. You could do with that photo whatever you wished, put it all over the internet, doctor it to include the head in a porno shot.

Its not the actual taking thats invading their privacy it's the fact that you own a photograph of them that you can do whatever you want with.
 
joescrivens said:
it's absolutely invading someones privacy. You could do with that photo whatever you wished, put it all over the internet, doctor it to include the head in a porno shot.

Its not the actual taking thats invading their privacy it's the fact that you own a photograph of them that you can do whatever you want with.
Click to expand...

Which isn't illegal given the scenario which started this thread...tough titty IMO...
If the canoeist had a good reason...and it'd have to be bloody good to prevent me from photographing him, then maybe, maybe I'd desist...but it's not likely...
 
These threads are always quite amusing.

In my case I was bawled at whilst walking through Montmartre in Paris (where all the strip joints and other norty places are) with my girlfriend.

I was using my M4-P, which, as some of you know does not have an internal meter. I didn't have my sekonic at this point so I was periodically using my GR1s as a glorified lightmeter. I see a really great street scene with a nice assortment of cars, buildings and lighting.

I put the GR1 to my eye to take the reading (it was about 2 in the afternoon, incidentally) and I hear this squaking noise from a woman but don't really pay any attention seeing as it's a busy area with the usual hustle and bustle. Then I notice, now through the far right hand side of the viewfinder of the M4, that the source of the noise is advancing towards me and my girlfriend starts tugging my sleeve and saying "eh, she's shouting at you".

I lower the camera and this short but rather feisty woman starts yelling up at me in a thick Parisian accent. I start talking to her calmly but then she figures out that I'm not French and has a go at guessing my nationality, I explain that I'm Scottish, then she starts shouting at me in broken English about how outrageously I am behaving and "she wouldn't take photos of my house". I keep trying to walk away but she is stepping in front of me.

I'm still totally bewildered about why the hell this woman is so upset and keep trying to calm her down but she persists in shouting about how I'm not allowed to take photos of her and how she will call the Police, the Gendarmes etc. All the while my GF is getting increasingly upset. Realising I am achieving absolutely nothing in this conversation, I remember that I am in Paris and that the only way to deal with this sort of thing is to forget diplomacy and be extremely rude back; anything less is considered weak. So I lost it and started shouting at her in English as by this point my French had run out of expletives and told her to either **** off or call the Gendarmes and see how worried they were about (because by this time I had sussed out what the real issue was) some runty old woman that took tickets for a strip joint being upset at the thought she might be in the distant corner of a very wide angle shot.

This was the correct tactic as she then returned to her seat and muttered various things at us as we walked off.

Ah Paris...
 
If you're paddling up a canal and you see someone taking a picture that you'd rather they didn't take ... given that you're in the water and they're on the bank some distance away ... what else are you meant to do but shout?
 
Arkady said:
Which isn't illegal given the scenario which started this thread...tough titty IMO...
If the canoeist had a good reason...and it'd have to be bloody good to prevent me from photographing him, then maybe, maybe I'd desist...but it's not likely...
Click to expand...

you don't know what their reason was so you shouldn't assume that he has no good reason

Taking a photo of someone when they clearly don't want to be photographed is you being a total jerk. Anyone who deliberately photographs someone who doesn't want photographing is being ignorant and obtuse and those are two qualities that aren't very attractive in a person.

Why would you want a photo of someone who didn't want it taken? Just because you can? sounds mental to me
 
joescrivens said:
it's absolutely invading someones privacy. You could do with that photo whatever you wished, put it all over the internet, doctor it to include the head in a porno shot.

Its not the actual taking thats invading their privacy it's the fact that you own a photograph of them that you can do whatever you want with.
Click to expand...

That's still not an invasion of privacy. That's being an absolute cn-ut about what you do with the photo :lol:

gingerjon said:
If you're paddling up a canal and you see someone taking a picture that you'd rather they didn't take ... given that you're in the water and they're on the bank some distance away ... what else are you meant to do but shout?
Click to expand...

The dude was about 4/5 meters away from me! He could have just said "Sorry would you mind not photographing us.". To which I would have apologised and moved on.
 
Jamie H said:
These threads are always quite amusing.

In my case I was bawled at whilst walking through Montmartre in Paris (where all the strip joints and other norty places are) with my girlfriend.

I was using my M4-P, which, as some of you know does not have an internal meter. I didn't have my sekonic at this point so I was periodically using my GR1s as a glorified lightmeter. I see a really great street scene with a nice assortment of cars, buildings and lighting.

I put the GR1 to my eye to take the reading (it was about 2 in the afternoon, incidentally) and I hear this squaking noise from a woman but don't really pay any attention seeing as it's a busy area with the usual hustle and bustle. Then I notice, now through the far right hand side of the viewfinder of the M4, that the source of the noise is advancing towards me and my girlfriend starts tugging my sleeve and saying "eh, she's shouting at you".

I lower the camera and this short but rather feisty woman starts yelling up at me in a thick Parisian accent. I start talking to her calmly but then she figures out that I'm not French and has a go at guessing my nationality, I explain that I'm Scottish, then she starts shouting at me in broken English about how outrageously I am behaving and "she wouldn't take photos of my house". I keep trying to walk away but she is stepping in front of me.

I'm still totally bewildered about why the hell this woman is so upset and keep trying to calm her down but she persists in shouting about how I'm not allowed to take photos of her and how she will call the Police, the Gendarmes etc. All the while my GF is getting increasingly upset. Realising I am achieving absolutely nothing in this conversation, I remember that I am in Paris and that the only way to deal with this sort of thing is to forget diplomacy and be extremely rude back; anything less is considered weak. So I lost it and started shouting at her in English as by this point my French had run out of expletives and told her to either **** off or call the Gendarmes and see how worried they were about (because by this time I had sussed out what the real issue was) some runty old woman that took tickets for a strip joint being upset at the thought she might be in the distant corner of a very wide angle shot.

This was the correct tactic as she then returned to her seat and muttered various things at us as we walked off.

Ah Paris...
Click to expand...

the issue here is that the woman's reaction was not warranted in it's extremity. It's also very different, in this scenario she just happened to be in the scene you were taking. The OP was deliberately composing the shot because of the canoeists in it.
 
hahaha...yes, shouting loudly in English does the trick...
 
Jamie H said:
These threads are always quite amusing.

In my case I was bawled at whilst walking through Montmartre in Paris (where all the strip joints and other norty places are) with my girlfriend.

I was using my M4-P, which, as some of you know does not have an internal meter. I didn't have my sekonic at this point so I was periodically using my GR1s as a glorified lightmeter. I see a really great street scene with a nice assortment of cars, buildings and lighting.

I put the GR1 to my eye to take the reading (it was about 2 in the afternoon, incidentally) and I hear this squaking noise from a woman but don't really pay any attention seeing as it's a busy area with the usual hustle and bustle. Then I notice, now through the far right hand side of the viewfinder of the M4, that the source of the noise is advancing towards me and my girlfriend starts tugging my sleeve and saying "eh, she's shouting at you".

I lower the camera and this short but rather feisty woman starts yelling up at me in a thick Parisian accent. I start talking to her calmly but then she figures out that I'm not French and has a go at guessing my nationality, I explain that I'm Scottish, then she starts shouting at me in broken English about how outrageously I am behaving and "she wouldn't take photos of my house". I keep trying to walk away but she is stepping in front of me.

I'm still totally bewildered about why the hell this woman is so upset and keep trying to calm her down but she persists in shouting about how I'm not allowed to take photos of her and how she will call the Police, the Gendarmes etc. All the while my GF is getting increasingly upset. Realising I am achieving absolutely nothing in this conversation, I remember that I am in Paris and that the only way to deal with this sort of thing is to forget diplomacy and be extremely rude back; anything less is considered weak. So I lost it and started shouting at her in English as by this point my French had run out of expletives and told her to either **** off or call the Gendarmes and see how worried they were about (because by this time I had sussed out what the real issue was) some runty old woman that took tickets for a strip joint being upset at the thought she might be in the distant corner of a very wide angle shot.

This was the correct tactic as she then returned to her seat and muttered various things at us as we walked off.

Ah Paris...
Click to expand...

Isn't the law in France that you do own the rights to any image taken of you - or something like that?
 
Jamie H said:
These threads are always quite amusing.

In my case I was bawled at whilst walking through Montmartre in Paris (where all the strip joints and other norty places are) with my girlfriend.

I was using my M4-P, which, as some of you know does not have an internal meter. I didn't have my sekonic at this point so I was periodically using my GR1s as a glorified lightmeter. I see a really great street scene with a nice assortment of cars, buildings and lighting.

I put the GR1 to my eye to take the reading (it was about 2 in the afternoon, incidentally) and I hear this squaking noise from a woman but don't really pay any attention seeing as it's a busy area with the usual hustle and bustle. Then I notice, now through the far right hand side of the viewfinder of the M4, that the source of the noise is advancing towards me and my girlfriend starts tugging my sleeve and saying "eh, she's shouting at you".

I lower the camera and this short but rather feisty woman starts yelling up at me in a thick Parisian accent. I start talking to her calmly but then she figures out that I'm not French and has a go at guessing my nationality, I explain that I'm Scottish, then she starts shouting at me in broken English about how outrageously I am behaving and "she wouldn't take photos of my house". I keep trying to walk away but she is stepping in front of me.

I'm still totally bewildered about why the hell this woman is so upset and keep trying to calm her down but she persists in shouting about how I'm not allowed to take photos of her and how she will call the Police, the Gendarmes etc. All the while my GF is getting increasingly upset. Realising I am achieving absolutely nothing in this conversation, I remember that I am in Paris and that the only way to deal with this sort of thing is to forget diplomacy and be extremely rude back; anything less is considered weak. So I lost it and started shouting at her in English as by this point my French had run out of expletives and told her to either **** off or call the Gendarmes and see how worried they were about (because by this time I had sussed out what the real issue was) some runty old woman that took tickets for a strip joint being upset at the thought she might be in the distant corner of a very wide angle shot.

This was the correct tactic as she then returned to her seat and muttered various things at us as we walked off.

Ah Paris...
Click to expand...

Hah! Awesome story :lol:
 
karmagarda said:
That's still not an invasion of privacy. That's being an absolute cn-ut about what you do with the photo :lol:
Click to expand...

The point is, he doesn't know what you are going to do with it, so the reaction is based on the worst

karmagarda said:
The dude was about 4/5 meters away from me! He could have just said "Sorry would you mind not photographing us.". To which I would have apologised and moved on.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you here. But you can't be surprised that he reacted the way he did, it's a little unnerving to have someone point a camera at you and if you feel like your privacy is being invaded (whether you think it is or not, is irrelevant, it's the person who is the subject that has this perception) fight or flight will kick in, and your visceral reaction might be to be obtuse rather than polite.
 
joescrivens said:
you don't know what their reason was so you shouldn't assume that he has no good reason

Taking a photo of someone when they clearly don't want to be photographed is you being a total jerk. Anyone who deliberately photographs someone who doesn't want photographing is being ignorant and obtuse and those are two qualities that aren't very attractive in a person.

Why would you want a photo of someone who didn't want it taken? Just because you can? sounds mental to me
Click to expand...

Grow up Joe...a Photo of a conoeist on a river?
If I decided I wanted the photo - and in this scenario, I'd probably have made the shot before he noticed anyway...then I'll take it...

And as I said - if he gave a reason - and it'd have to satisfy me, not just some airy 'I don't want to be photographed' attitude, then I might consider it...but on balance, I doubt it...

And who the **** ever said I was a nice person? :bat:
 
It wasn't this fella was it? ... stroppy fella told me he was ex police and he knew the law and I wasn't allowed to take his photo .../... guess what happened next. :lol:

Click click click...

canoeist.jpg
 
joescrivens said:
I don't disagree with you here. But you can't be surprised that he reacted the way he did, it's a little unnerving to have someone point a camera at you and if you feel like your privacy is being invaded (whether you think it is or not, is irrelevant, it's the person who is the subject that has this perception) fight or flight will kick in, and your visceral reaction might be to be obtuse rather than polite.
Click to expand...

I'm more surprised that I reacted so politely to his rudeness. I have had people ask me not to take their photo before, to which I obliged. The point is they asked politely. So if I experience this rudeness again I'll ensure to take twice as many as I would have if nothing was said :lol:
 
Arkady said:
Grow up Joe...a Photo of a conoeist on a river?
If I decided I wanted the photo - and in this scenario, I'd probably have made the shot before he noticed anyway...then I'll take it...

And as I said - if he gave a reason - and it'd have to satisfy me, not just some airy 'I don't want to be photographed' attitude, then I might consider it...but on balance, I doubt it...

And who the **** ever said I was a nice person? :bat:
Click to expand...

I hope you aren't this ignorant in real life and this is just because you are having some banter on a forum that doesn't really matter.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
It wasn't this fella was it? ... stroppy fella told me he was ex police and he knew the law and I wasn't allowed to take his photo .../... guess what happened next. :lol:

Click click click...
Click to expand...


:lol: Mr Happy Lives Next Door...lol

I get so many "I'm ex-SF, you can't photograph me" - or even better "I'm considering going for SF selection, you can't photograph me" that i could wallpaper an ISO container with the hankies use use to dry my tears of mirth...
I taught SF...I know what can and can't be done...
 
gingerjon said:
Isn't the law in France that you do own the rights to any image taken of you - or something like that?
Click to expand...

I think it probably is but given that the French don't generally have too much regard for these types of law I wasn't going to worry unduly!

That's one thing we should admire the French for actually - if a law is patently absurd they just ignore it. We get out knickers in a twist and try to stick to it.
 
karmagarda said:
I'm more surprised that I reacted so politely to his rudeness. I have had people ask me not to take their photo before, to which I obliged. The point is they asked politely. So if I experience this rudeness again I'll ensure to take twice as many as I would have if nothing was said :lol:
Click to expand...

People are rude sometimes, others are total jerks. Be the bigger man and act politely like you did, there's nothing wrong with it, pick your battles. Being rude just cos someone else is doesn't make sense.

For the record I think you did the right thing by being polite and walking away.
 
Arkady said:
:lol: Mr Happy Lives Next Door...lol

I get so many "I'm ex-SF, you can't photograph me" - or even better "I'm considering going for SF selection, you can't photograph me" that i could wallpaper an ISO container with the hankies use use to dry my tears of mirth...
I taught SF...I know what can and can't be done...
Click to expand...


"I'm going for selection"? Yeah well Toots if you make it in then you can worry about it but until such time as you do - jog on.

Anyway, is the reason that most SF guys these days don't want photos taken not so that they have total control of their image (past and present) when they publish their memoirs?:)
 
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