No camera's allowed? Then boycot the event/ venue.

Proglam

Proglam

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When are tog's going to start making a stand for themselves. There are enough tog's out there to make a real financial impact to event & venues that refuse to allow DSLR or other cameras in.
The "Beijing Olympics Games" have now said no "professional kit". What's the bet UK will follow suit in 2012.
I say NO! Immediate boycot of the any event on this basis until clear rules state no discrimination against DSLR's. What possible difference can it make to them whether of not I sit in the stands with D3 or P&S with 15x zoom.
We should stop accepting this nonsence. We're quick enough to moan about it.... now start doing something!
 
this most likely wouldnt work. they ban cameras because they are distracting or to control the pictures available (and obviously the money thing) flashes are distracting and they want to control what makes it to press, simple as and i dont think a boycott is going to affect most venues.
 
99.999999% of people go to an event to see the event, not to take photos of it.
 
99.999999% of people go to an event to see the event, not to take photos of it.
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No problem with that. They're entitled to. I'm just not one of them.
they ban cameras because they are distracting
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Utter rot. That's a created perseption.
the money thing / they want to control what makes it to press
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That's hitting the nail on the head. What happened to "free market"?

None of the above comments actually explain discrimination against DSLR's. If I get the "money shot" with a mobile phone, I'll be able to sell it somewhere.
Are people waving phone cam's around not more irritating than a tog sitting back quietly doing his/ her thing?
My point is either ban everything or nothing. Don't discriminate!
 
So 'professional kit' that will be used properly isn't allowed, but you are allowed to take a compact, put it on 'auto' and flash from the back of the stadium? Seems back to front to me. Is this because they want to ensure official photographers and those with press passes are the only ones to be capable of getting decent coverage?
 
Proglam said:
Utter rot. That's a created perseption.
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I dunno, my 500mm can be pretty distracting and the shutter noise...

Proglam said:
That's hitting the nail on the head. What happened to "free market"?
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Free market applies to the organisers too, their event, their rules, their profits.

Proglam said:
Are people waving phone cam's around not more irritating than a tog sitting back quietly doing his/ her thing?
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You're assuming someone with a dslr is not going to be waving it around like a cameraphone, some would certainly be fine but can you imagine five thousand+ dslr shutters going off in unison, five thousand+ 580EX flashguns blinding the performer.
 
The thing about it being a free market is that the organisers are also free to make money in whatever way they want. And a boycott will have no bearing on them, there simply aren't enough DSLR users to create empty spaces in the stands.
 
Steep said:
Free market applies to the organisers too, their event, their rules, their profits.
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That's pretty much it right there. If someone's not happy with the restrictions imposed by the event owners/organisers they're quite at liberty to invest the cash to put on an alternative event of their own. :shrug:
 
there simply aren't enough DSLR users to create empty spaces in the stands.
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Quite possibly, but until/ unless all tog's stick together we'll never know.

Look what's happened to the Microsoft UK photo comp which was open to everyone. Not just togs. It was a browse web, steal pic, submit pic, win prize thing.
Due to couple of complaints about "possible" copyright issues, even Nikon pulled out their ongoing involvement & MS have had to do a whole rethink. That's a handful of complaints vs. how many possible entrants?

Question (Not retorical, asking because I don't know): What's the policy at e.g. UK footie stadiums, Wimbledon, etc?
 
From Wimbledon

"The use of photographic equipment must not inconvenience any other person in the Grounds. Still photographs, film, videotape or other audio-visual material recorded within the Grounds may not be sold or used commercially in any way whatsoever unless authorised by the AELTC and may be confiscated by the Club if such sale or commercial use is suspected."

Seems they do not discriminate but you cannot sell any image you take.
 
Which IMO is 100% fair. I'm not in any way an advocate of doing a PRO out of income or the venue/ event either. I've covered e.g. Fashion Weeks for a couple of years now and understand the need to keep some exclusivity for the PRO's, thus limiting sale/ income generation.
I'm just against the discrimination DSLR users experience, because we're "generally" more serious about our interests than others. Imagine if BMW drivers weren't allowed to drive through villages, because the cars "are capable of high speeds".
 
Proglam said:
Quite possibly, but until/ unless all tog's stick together we'll never know.
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You'll not find me sticking with you, I go to events to watch them not take photos. If I want to shoot something I get the proper accreditation required and all the benefits that go with that.

I really can't see why there's so much fuss about not being able to take a camera into an event like a concert or a football match.
 
:lol: Add Nissan Micras and I'm there!
 
I go to events to watch them not take photos
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And no harm in that. Different people = different priorities. Watching the event has higher priority for you than taking pics. For me, I go to the event to take pics. Taking of pics is my higher priority & the event is just means to the end. I'm quite happy to pay my way as well.
Kinda like I have to eat bread, because I can't really just eat spoonfuls of strawberry jam.
I just don't want to be discriminated against because I happen to have a DSLR. That's all I'm getting at.....
 
Steep said:
:lol: Add Nissan Micras and I'm there!
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Especially the ones that do exactly 40mph, regardless of the speed limit.

I'd be all for a 'no flash' rule, but disallowing 'professional looking' kit is just rubbish. True, most people do go to watch, not photograph, but I can't really see DSLRs getting in the way.

As a side note, it's interesting to see a growing number of tourists walking about with DSLRs. I think they're becoming more popular now. I wonder if this will have an impact in future?
 
Proglam said:
Question (Not retorical, asking because I don't know): What's the policy at e.g. UK footie stadiums, Wimbledon, etc?
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All UK football stadiums at all levels from premiership down to non league have pretty much the same ground rules. The short version is that you are not allowed to take photographs from the terraces stands of a football match in progress.. Even accredited photographers arn't allowed to take pictures from a stand terrace. The wording is thta your not allowed to enter the ground with such equipment.

however...3pm at a premiership game and watch all the flashes going off.. Its such a hard rule to enforce with camera phones and pocket cameras but easier to enforce when you have a big lens sticking out :)

Lower leagues (non league for example) not only dont enforce the rules they encourage you to take pictures.. any publicity is good publicity for struggling little clubs.

Its not legal rules its ground rules. you enter the ground agreeing to those rules. you take pictures and you can be thrown out.
 
I agree, seems quite fair to me ..... Just think of all those, togs, sports people, journalists and advertisers that have paid there monies and labours to have access. If you where one of those tog professionals how would you feel about some ticket holder getting good shots and possibly selling them in the same market place as you.
 
Cue..... wedding togs .... papa..... :naughty:
 
I think that Proglam has a point but I'm not sure that boycotting will make any difference.
I'm a member of the National Trust and no photography is allowed inside any of their properties.
 
Proglam said:
The "Beijing Olympics Games" have now said no "professional kit".
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That'll be a bit of a blow for Nikon then - they've been hoarding all the lenses like the 70-200 and 300mm f/4 to ship to China for sale during the games. be a real shame if they can't sell any of them

:lol::lol::naughty::lol::lol::thumbs:
 
You just kind of accept them and move on.
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And as far as possible only spend any money on attending events etc. that'll allow me in with my kit. My little way of making a stand. Small as it may be.

As for
Just think of all those, togs, sports people, journalists and advertisers that have paid there monies and labours to have access.
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I did say "I'm not in any way an advocate of doing a PRO out of income or the venue/ event either. I've covered e.g. Fashion Weeks for a couple of years now and understand the need to keep some exclusivity for the PRO's, thus limiting sale/ income generation." I may even be quite prepared to pay a reasonable amount for the chance to shoot, with a "no sale" clause still in place.

Point I'm making here is that with a little luck I could get the money shot with my phone or any P&S. So why should I be discriminated against just because I have a DSLR. That's the question!
 
Proglam said:
When are tog's going to start making a stand for themselves. There are enough tog's out there to make a real financial impact to event & venues that refuse to allow DSLR or other cameras in.
The "Beijing Olympics Games" have now said no "professional kit". What's the bet UK will follow suit in 2012.
I say NO! Immediate boycot of the any event on this basis until clear rules state no discrimination against DSLR's. What possible difference can it make to them whether of not I sit in the stands with D3 or P&S with 15x zoom.
We should stop accepting this nonsence. We're quick enough to moan about it.... now start doing something!
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Garuantee, this won't happen at 2012, the reason it's happen it is because it's china for crying out loud, the country that basically pre determines what the nexts days news is going to be and what the outside world are allowed to see, if they let people bring professional kit, they won't be able to keep track.

Also, i don't think you realise how distracting cameras can be for athletes, especially flash, alot of my family are athletes and they tell me it puts them off no end.
 
Adam. I see what you're saying about it being China, but flip side is authorities here using things like terrorism/ Health & safety etc. to make their burocratic decisions. Just look at the amount of coverage "stop & search" on tog's is getting here.

Re. flashes at sports events etc., I agree completely. In probably 99% of instances only a complete loon would fire a flash at a compeditor. It would be inconsiderate, & a complete waste as how often is the compeditor within usefull flash range anyway.

That said, again the question.... If loon next to me can fire away with P&S with auto flash, why can't I shoot DSLR without flash.
I say again... it's the discrimination agauinst the DSLR that I'm questioning.
 
NorthernNikon said:
Then get accreditation.
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:shrug:

What possible difference can it make to them whether of not I sit in the stands with D3 or P&S with 15x zoom.
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well i know what i would use, and to imply that there would no difference in the final image is :lol:

if you enter a venue for an event you follow their rules - who said they have to be fair?

ok so you are sitting there with your d3 your 200-400mm zoom your flash with attached zoomer - you have your qantium battery and your lowpro rucksack to put it all in - you're blasting away a 8fps and you have the whole lot on a 6 foot monopod to get a good view - do you think this may be distracting the people around you?

where would you draw the line?
 
to imply that there would no difference in the final image is
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Of course there would be a difference, point I was making was in relation to getting the money shot. I could get a money shot with a P&S if that's all I was after. As a dedicated tog, I'd like to get the best quality shots I can as well.

ok so you are sitting there with your d3 your 200-400mm zoom your flash with attached zoomer - you have your qantium battery and your lowpro rucksack to put it all in - you're blasting away a 8fps and you have the whole lot on a 6 foot monopod to get a good view - do you think this may be distracting the people around you?
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Flash issue already addressed. It seems either you don't think much of your fellow tog's if this is the behaviour you expect of them OR perhaps this is what you see them do which is even more concerning. The kind of yob'ish behaviour you describe does not form part of the tog behaviour in my circle of tog's.
Clearly having some quality kit, does not imply that ones sence of considderation for others should fly out the window.

So what has this thread established so far?
1) that majority of folk seem less concerned about photography & gaining access to photographic opportunities than I would have expected on a photography site & more concerned about having someone waving around a big lens in front of them.
2) there's no real answer as to why there is discrimination against DSLR's
3) there's no real support against said discrimination.

Interesting....
 
Proglam said:
So what has this thread established so far?
1) that majority of folk seem less concerned about photography & gaining access to photographic opportunities than I would have expected on a photography site & more concerned about having someone waving around a big lens in front of them.
2) there's no real answer as to why there is discrimination against DSLR's
3) there's no real support against said discrimination.

Interesting....
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1. I think it's just due to the fact that if you pay for access to a venue you have to abide by the rules they decide, whether or not you like them. They don't even have to make sense, but the rules are what they are.
2. You're right, there's not really a valid reason, but there doesn't have to be.
3. There possibly is but the likelihood of getting the rules overturned are slim to none. That being the case there's no point in fighting an unwinnable fight.

One other thing I find interesting is that you keep going on about not doing the pro's out of income, even signing a "no sale" clause, but you keep referring to "the money shot" and asked initially what happened to the free market.
 
Proglam said:
When are tog's going to start making a stand for themselves.............. We're quick enough to moan about it.... now start doing something!
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All very valid points, I guess its a case of "we" should put up or shut up :thumbs:

mbscad said:
I'm a member of the National Trust and no photography is allowed inside any of their properties.
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Yeah what is it with that? I thought / believed that these "national treasures"
AKA buildings and grounds ( and usually contents) were left by people for the people to enjoy long after ( usually) said persons death ?
Or am I way off? and they are just left to another "charity" for them to make money from.... :shrug:
 
You're right, there's not really a valid reason, but there doesn't have to be.
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Why not? Shouldn't we be asking questions?
Isn't just blindly accepting things, exactly what launched a war in Iraq? OMG, the quantity of WMD's that have been found/ recovered since the invasion is awesome. Ol' G Bush, pulled off quite a fast one there.
Questioning issues means we're not just sheep, but have minds of our own that want reason. Not just dead compliance.
As for the "money shot" comments I made, were in realtion to comments made about "just getting accriditation, pro's paying their way" etc. I've been on that side of the coin. I know what it's like shooting from the tog's crows nest, trying to earn a living & having someone with a P&S lean over the barrier right in front of the pro togs blocking their view at a crucial moment of the game.

I read weekly in tog mags, tog sites etc. about even cabinet members now questioning the "stopping of togs in public places". "Early motions" being presented etc.
Isn't this what it all comes down to? Tog's with DSLR's being discriminated against. Yet here, today, on this thread, the support has overwelmingly been for the "allowance" of the discrimination.
The rules are the rules. Don't question them. Don't try change them. They don't have to be fair.
So where are the "apparent minority" that have even managed to stir up the politicians? Is the move to stop security & police unfairly stopping togs (predominantly with DSLR's), just a well conjoured up spin exercise.
 
Hmmm, people standing up to the rules laid down on society by government is very different to asking that companies putting on events be told they cannot set their own rules, if you don't like them.

What you're asking would be a far bigger restriction of rights than telling you that an SLR is not allowed.
 
Proglam said:
Why not? Shouldn't we be asking questions?
Isn't just blindly accepting things, exactly what launched a war in Iraq?
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WTF? :cuckoo: How do you get from event organisers and promoters restrciting photography and the military invasion of Iraq?

You don't have to ask questions, photography is restricted for the same reason as audio and video recording devices are restricted.

And could really get a "money shot" with a P&S? Could you really? Have you seen any shot paid for with a P&S other than a news story where there were no offical press covering it? I haven't.
 
sportysnaps said:
:shrug:


clip ~

ok so you are sitting there with your d3 your 200-400mm zoom your flash with attached zoomer -
~clip
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It's a D3 .... you don't need a flash!

As far as I see it ... if you have no accreditation then your entrance is a case of Rule Acceptance.
 
It's not discrimination. It's simply a rule you don't like.

It's not a public space, but a commercial enterprise for which you have paid admission. That admission comes with a number of conditions which you either accept or you don't.
 
It's not discrimination. It's simply a rule you don't like.
It's not a public space, but a commercial enterprise for which you have paid admission. That admission comes with a number of conditions which you either accept or you don't.
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And as per start of thread & mentioned throughout, it's just my little ol' choice not to attend. Just thought there may be more who felt like I do.

OK, stepping out now.
As mentioned, surprised at responses, but that's freedom of speech at work.

Been fun stirring this thread today. Have a good evening all.
 
im going to awembley game in october and i have heard no camera policy but we gunna smuggle or bodys and lens in (lens in a spare pair of trainers ina bag) we not thought of hiding place the body yet *** lol

any ideas? haha
 
While I do get your discrimination point having been stopped by security while others wander on past merrily snapping away with compacts and phone cams, I do get it.

However, with any major sporting event photography really has to be restricted. Two reasons. One is the potential nightmare of hundrends of dslr's with huge lenses disrupting the event for everyone involved, that's only sensible. You are not going to knock a fellow spectator out with a compact. Have you seen the size of some lenses? lol

Secondly is the income generation. Those togs who have paid their dues, followed the rules, got their vest and are there doing it for a living really are not going to like you blasting away from row z. The event probably wants to make sure they get good coverage and a bit of control over what goes out. The event probably get a cut of the sales too. All you do is devalue their product.
 
#13 said:
im going to awembley game in october and i have heard no camera policy but we gunna smuggle or bodys and lens in (lens in a spare pair of trainers ina bag) we not thought of hiding place the body yet *** lol

any ideas? haha
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As long as you're happy being turned away at the gate getting caught, go for it :)
 
OK, stepping out now.
As mentioned, surprised at responses, but that's freedom of speech at work.

Been fun stirring this thread today. Have a good evening all.
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what? - I just got in and you have signed off?

ok as the OP was not able to answer my question - anyone else want to have a go?

if my extreme example
ok so you are sitting there with your d3 your 200-400mm zoom your flash with attached zoomer - you have your qantium battery and your lowpro rucksack to put it all in - you're blasting away a 8fps and you have the whole lot on a 6 foot monopod to get a good view - do you think this may be distracting the people around you?

where would you draw the line?

for the record i would support a complete ban on all photography from the audience at the 2008 Olympics... ends the slr "discrimination" in one one go
 
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