Review Nikon's Nightmare Information and Data Sheets!

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Kodiak Qc

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I bought this week a TC. This purchase was justified by
the rather inaccessible parts of the marsh I visit, after or
before work, where lots of good things are going on.

To ground the understanding of this post on tangibles, a
back story: I wanted to extend the already great reach of
a 600mm ƒ4 on a D800E. I visited the Nikon's sites, read
plenty of reviews, seen some videos and bench tests.

I learned, in conclusion, that my better choice (money has
no role in the equation) would be the TC-17E II that just
popped up for sale:
"mint TC-17E II purchased a few weeks back.
Comes with both caps and is fully boxed."​

The only thing I have to worry is the compatibility. So…

Table%201.jpg

Resource:http://www.nikonusa.com/en_INC/IMG/...eleconverter-Compatibility/EN_Comp_chart.html

According to this table, the restriction in my case is not
lens dependent but depends on the body I intend to use
it on… and I'm cleared there too!

Confident, I bought the TC and I was very eager to test all
the extra reach I was expecting. I go outside to take some
test shots and start with the 600mm on the D800E. Since
I recently did the AF Fine Tune on it and extensively used
it at the marsh, I know the takes will be super sharp.

Now, let's mount the TC and give it a got. WOW! the reach
is as spectacular as I hoped and the focusing is quick! I re-
move the card and take it to the MAC in the studio to control
the sharpness. Without, as expected, the test is dead positive.
When I get to the TC takes, great disaster! My first reflex was
to check and recheck but to no avail. I read the instructions
to discover this:

TC17%20instructions3.jpg


I cannot blame the seller who had no experience using the
TC on such lens: "It was sharp with my 70-200 and AF was
only marginally slower than without." he said in a PM. And
the darn thing is really as stated: "mint"!

I tried it on the latest 70~200 ƒ2.8 and the focusing is swift
indeed.

I think I did my homework before, as I hate loosing time and
money. This being the first time I ever found reasons to doubt
Nikon's own given information.

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

Did you have similar experiences?
Any tips, suggestions or ideas?
 
Daniel - sometimes it says that but they still work - light dependant f8 and higher

so you are stuck using f4 x 1.7 = f6.8 most of the time

my 1,7TC works OK on the 300PF f4

I will try it on the 600mm f4 and let you know how I get on

did you fine tune the 1,7TC and 600mm f4 together - if so what distance did you use?
 
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PaulButler said:
Daniel in what way was it a disaster? If it didn't AF you would surely have seen that happen (or rather not happen) through the viewfinder wouldn't you?
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In the viewfinder, Paul, snappy AF and it looked ok.
Once in my converter, it all was fine until I hit the
"view at 100%" button: flowers were not longer
flowers but colour smudges on the screen! :(
 
Kodiak Qc said:
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In the viewfinder, Paul, snappy AF and it looked ok.
Once in my converter, it all was fine until I hit the
"view at 100%" button: flowers were not longer
flowers but colour smudges on the screen! :(
Click to expand...

did you use it for the Grebe shot(s) that you posted yesterday
 
Kodiak Qc said:
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In the viewfinder, Paul, snappy AF and it looked ok.
Once in my converter, it all was fine until I hit the
"view at 100%" button: flowers were not longer
flowers but colour smudges on the screen! :(
Click to expand...
So we are talking either missed focus or a loss of IQ? I'd expect some loss of IQ though. Is it worth trying a test to use live view to eliminate the af being missed - if it does it may be a case of fine tuning the tc+lens combo.
 
BillN_33 said:
did you use it for the Grebe shot(s) that you posted yesterday
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No, I always test the gear in studio or around before
ever thinking to go for a shoot!
 
Kodiak Qc said:
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In the viewfinder, Paul, snappy AF and it looked ok.
Once in my converter, it all was fine until I hit the
"view at 100%" button: flowers were not longer
flowers but colour smudges on the screen! :(
Click to expand...

The 1.7 works great on my 500 f4 but you do realise that AF tuning must be done with the lens AND TC attached don't you?
The fact that your lens has been tuned is irrelevant if you have a TC attached ... re-tune it together and it should be fine :)
 
btw, I should have added there is definitely a variance in the information Nikon have supplied here.
 
gramps said:
The 1.7 works great on my 500 f4 but you do realise that AF tuning must be done with the lens AND TC attached don't you?
The fact that your lens has been tuned is irrelevant if you have a TC attached ... re-tune it together and it should be fine :)
Click to expand...

I found minus without the TC ......... and a large movement to + with it
 
PaulButler said:
btw, I should have added there is definitely a variance in the information Nikon have supplied here.
Click to expand...

Whilst that is true Paul, would it not be that the TC-1.7Ell was manufactured before the availability of bodies capable of focusing at f8, like the D800?
So in truth the fact is that Daniel just had instructions appropriate at the time of production, which have subsequently been superseded.
 
gramps said:
Whilst that is true Paul, would it not be that the TC-1.7Ell was manufactured before the availability of bodies capable of focusing at f8, like the D800?
So in truth the fact is that Daniel just had instructions appropriate at the time of production, which have subsequently been superseded.
Click to expand...
That could, and is most likely true so yes, hadn't considered that.
 
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before I ever think of taking out on a shoot!
 
So you have tuned the lens and TC together but still have the problem?
 
gramps said:
but you do realise that AF tuning must be done with the lens AND TC attached don't you?
Click to expand...
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The AF/FT was done in April with the 600 on all my three bodies.

After the test shoot, I tried to AF/FT the TC on the D800E but no
sensible improvement came out of it.
gramps said:
So you have tuned the lens and TC together but still have the problem?
Click to expand...

Yep! :(
 
Don't you think that what you re experiencing is quite normal

minimum aperture say f7 ...... f8 and over AF slower or maybe not depending on light

at over 1000mm you have to get the focus spot on and again the better the light the more likely ..... and need to be very steady .... (plus high shutter speed) ...... they say that with the D800/810 it should be 1.5 times the focal length because of the high MP's

need to consider fine tuning the lens + TC very carefully

if you have done all the about ......... and no luck ........ not sure what the answer is

( but I do notice when using even the 600mm in the evening light ..... same shot one after another . one shot can be quite a lot sharper than the previous because of camera movement [I presume])
 
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PaulButler said:
btw, I should have added there is definitely a variance in the information Nikon have supplied here.
Click to expand...
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Yes, and I feel trapped now!
 
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Can you correct/improve the focusing sharpness by manually focusing the lens with TC on?
 
Kodiak Qc said:
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That was my first reflex of course… but to no avail!
Click to expand...
Difficult one to suggest much else, it would seem the info on the website is more current than the paperwork as Roger pointed out. It does AF but the image quality is compromised, and this seems unlikely to be an AF fine tune issue as you have done that ... perhaps you are finding the loss of IQ unacceptable? Maybe post some examples ...
 
Kodiak Qc said:
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Yes, and I fell trapped now!
Click to expand...

See Post #13 ... it's not a fault in the combination of equipment, it's just outdated instructions, i.e. before the availability of bodies able to focus at f8.
 
BillN_33 said:
The reason I asked
Click to expand...

Right, I asked my son to heal the debris that was there
before posting I and I was not here to control!

…shame on me! :(
 
Better to say it doesn't do something that it does than claim it does do something that is doesn't. It's probably just not supported.
 
Just nipped outside into the garden

Both with NO fine tune - i.e. set to zero - no PP just SOOC and converted to jpeg in LR

D810 + 1/3EV

Can you tell the difference if I had not pointed it out?

(add pp and the differences will be smaller)

without the TC - i.e. 600mm @f7.1 - 1/800th sec and ISO 1800 - cropped
600mm_1_soc.jpg


with TC - i.e. 1000mm @f7.1 - 1/800th sec ISO 1250 - full image
1000mm_1_SOC.jpg



without the TC - i.e. 600mm @f7.1 - 1/1000th sec ISO 900 - cropped
600mm_2_soc.jpg


with TC - i.e. 1000mm @f7.1 - 1/1000th sec ISO 1000 - full image
1000mm_2_soc.jpg



ISO values are interesting - images taken within seconds of each other
 
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The red rose is perhaps not the best subject as red often gets blown and it's on the edge here, however the cherub images are just what I would expect ... a very usable image with the TC.
 
gramps said:
The red rose is perhaps not the best subject as red often gets blown and it's on the edge here, however the cherub images are just what I would expect ... a very usable image with the TC.
Click to expand...

I suppose the debate is optical enlargement versus digital crop

my view is that it simply depends on distance and maybe the size of the print if the image is to be printed

under 10 mtres I would certainly go for a cropped 600mm image ......... my opinion just based on my use
 
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BillN_33 said:
but you have the same model???
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Yep, and this TC 17 E II…

I am not jealous of your gear of your the takes…

I normally fly over difficulties and problems but
this one is a hard bone!

…and it's a boring rainy day…:crying:
 
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Looks like it's focusing beyond the focus point, have you tried more than -10?
 
gramps said:
Looks like it's focusing beyond the focus point, have you tried more than -10?
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Yes Roger, all my attempts yesterday went from + to - 20
stopping at increments of 4.

…may I have you shoulder? :crying:

I'll have a coffee and maybe… it will stop raining!
 
gramps said:
See Post #13 ... it's not a fault in the combination of equipment, it's just outdated instructions, i.e. before the availability of bodies able to focus at f8.
Click to expand...
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In the first table, in the footnote, my body is
clearly identified there!!!!!!!!!!!
 
As I asked before, can you get decent focus manually with the TC on?
 
Kodiak Qc said:
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In the first table, in the footnote, my body is
clearly identified there!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

The 1st table (Compatibility Chart) is later in date than the TC Instruction Sheet, which was issued before f8 focusing cameras were produced (D8xx etc).
 
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