Nikon Z* mirrorless

Mr Perceptive said:
But this is the nature of the magpie onto the next shiny thing before really using whats in the bag.
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Indeed......then you have the other species, the procrastinator, often seen with splinters hanging from their arse (recommend me a 100-400 combo)..........leave the door open someone will walk through it :ROFLMAO:
 
imattersuk said:
Indeed......then you have the other species, the procrastinator, often seen with splinters hanging from their arse (recommend me a 100-400 combo)..........leave the door open someone will walk through it :ROFLMAO:
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Yep thats me, but at least when I change my kit, I use the new kit and keep it a decent length of time. I'm just waiting on a contract payday before pushing buttons on stuff.
 
trevorbray said:
Parted company with the Z8. Loved the performance but didn’t like using it. Hadn’t tried any manual focus lenses on it.
Yes I watched plenty reviews on it, but not tried one until it arrived. Keep wondering if I should have given it more of a go.
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Is waiting for the z6iii :naughty:
 
TG. said:
If you don't mind me asking, why didn't you like using it if you loved the performance, was it the ergonomics, I'm more than a bit intrigued.
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Size. I knew it was bigger than my old Z6. But didn’t like it in the hand.
 
Is it just me, but I’ve been shooting with manual focus lenses on my Zf for a while, both adapted and native Z. I enjoy the experience but the focus using peaking have of late been a bit hit and miss. So I’ve recently switched off focus peaking and my success rate has improved. Maybe it’s down to my peculiar eyesight, which varies during the day and is no better with or without prescription specs, but has anyone else found peaking to be distracting to the eye? Oh, and yes, I have tried all combinations of sensitivity and colour.
 
Stephen L said:
Is it just me, but I’ve been shooting with manual focus lenses on my Zf for a while, both adapted and native Z. I enjoy the experience but the focus using peaking have of late been a bit hit and miss. So I’ve recently switched off focus peaking and my success rate has improved. Maybe it’s down to my peculiar eyesight, which varies during the day and is no better with or without prescription specs, but has anyone else found peaking to be distracting to the eye? Oh, and yes, I have tried all combinations of sensitivity and colour.
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It really depends on the subject and the aperture value, sometimes it's easier than others but generally I find it's great, I use blue as I find I can see it easier.
 
Has anyone compared the z8 to the d500 for focus accuracy through foilage. Is it as accurate?
 
dcash29 said:
Has anyone compared the z8 to the d500 for focus accuracy through foilage. Is it as accurate?
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Not sure of the exact scenario you are asking about (and I don't have a D500 to compare), but this was a grab shot from the other day when walking with the dog. I suspect this would have been 20fps with wide area eye focus but not sure. Apologies for the quality of the cropped version but I was playing with the LRC new removal tool using AI. The camera didn't seem to get confused by the grass.

DSC_1078 by Paul Mckenzie, on Flickr

DSC_1078-1 by Paul Mckenzie, on Flickr
 
paulmck said:
Not sure of the exact scenario you are asking about (and I don't have a D500 to compare), but this was a grab shot from the other day when walking with the dog. I suspect this would have been 20fps with wide area eye focus but not sure. Apologies for the quality of the cropped version but I was playing with the LRC new removal tool using AI. The camera didn't seem to get confused by the grass.

DSC_1078 by Paul Mckenzie, on Flickr

DSC_1078-1 by Paul Mckenzie, on Flickr
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Hi Paul, not exactly. I'm referring to focusing on a background though foilage with an aperture of no more than 50mm in continuous mode.
 
dcash29 said:
Has anyone compared the z8 to the d500 for focus accuracy through foilage. Is it as accurate?
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I am assuming you a talking about photographing birds bouncing around amongst twigs and leaves?

With the D500, I always needed to use a single focus point for this (or manual focus) and found it easy to let the focus point wander away from the bird, i.e. from the eye onto the body or off the bird altogether.

With the Z8, which I've only had for 3 weeks, I'm using the same approach, except I'm not using the single point AF, but a custom area reduced to the same size as a single point focus area. This is because the single point AF option doesn't work with subject detect, but the custom generated single point does.

This makes it much easier, once you have found it, to hold focus on a birds eye with the Z8, than it was with the D500. BUT. the Z8 refuses to focus (latest 2.01 firmware) far more often than the D500 did. A quick nudge on the manual focus ring brings the AF back to life, but it's far more annoying than it was with the D500.

The other issue, for me, is that the subject detect on the custom single point focus doesn't recognise dragonfly eyes and hunts to the most eye-like feature. It also favours eyespots on butterfly wings over the butterfly eye. Even if the focus of the single point is on the insects eye, the Z8 still "looks" outside the point for more "eye-like objects.

I'm now setting up a third quick access option so I can have quick access to a single point "with" subject detection, a single point "without" subject detection and a wide focus area "with" subject detection.

Overall, the AF subject detect makes the Z8 so much better than the D500 (at least for someone at my skill level) that I'm getting a nice warm glow everytime I use it :-)

As I say, I've only had it for three weeks and only been out photographing birds/dragonflies on four occasions, so I may yet revise these comments as I get more experience with the camera.
 
Hi Graham, exactly what I meant. I recently pulled out my D500 and started wondering if the pro Z's could match it, as the Z6II doesn't come close.
 
dcash29 said:
Hi Graham, exactly what I meant. I recently pulled out my D500 and started wondering if the pro Z's could match it, as the Z6II doesn't come close.
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I got rid of 3 cameras (including my D500) and four lenses to buy the Z8, and at the moment (with the exception of the Hasselblad 500 and SinarP, which serve very different purposes) it’s the best camera I've ever used and I haven't had the slightest hint of regret about getting rid of the D500.

However, even after years of using the D500, learning to use the Z8, and taking full advantage of everything it offers, is proving a bit of a challenge.
 
myotis said:
I got rid of 3 cameras (including my D500) and four lenses to buy the Z8, and at the moment (with the exception of the Hasselblad 500 and SinarP, which serve very different purposes) it’s the best camera I've ever used and I haven't had the slightest hint of regret about getting rid of the D500.

However, even after years of using the D500, learning to use the Z8, and taking full advantage of everything it offers, is proving a bit of a challenge.
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Thanks Graham. The z8 is a little on the large side for me for an everyday camera and unfortunately Nikon don't have a decent apsc. However after next Monday we will no doubt have the flurry of unbearable reviews on the z6iii, which will hopefully have the same focusing system as the z8 but in a smaller body.
 
myotis said:
With the Z8, which I've only had for 3 weeks, I'm using the same approach, except I'm not using the single point AF, but a custom area reduced to the same size as a single point focus area. This is because the single point AF option doesn't work with subject detect, but the custom generated single point does.

The other issue, for me, is that the subject detect on the custom single point focus doesn't recognise dragonfly eyes and hunts to the most eye-like feature. It also favours eyespots on butterfly wings over the butterfly eye. Even if the focus of the single point is on the insects eye, the Z8 still "looks" outside the point for more "eye-like objects.
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If you're focusing backwards and forwards on a subject with the z6ii, I find dynamic area AF the most consist rather than single or wide areas. The z6ii is sharper than the D500 or even a Sony a7iii however the Sony focuses far better than the z6ii.
 
dcash29 said:
If you're focusing backwards and forwards on a subject with the z6ii, I find dynamic area AF the most consist rather than single or wide areas. The z6ii is sharper than the D500 or even a Sony a7iii however the Sony focuses far better than the z6ii.
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I'm still reading about and experimenting with the AF options, but I would also say the Z8 gives sharper images than the d500
 
myotis said:
I'm still reading about and experimenting with the AF options, but I would also say the Z8 gives sharper images than the d500
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The z8 is streets ahead in terms of consistent sharpness compared with the D500's AF, or that matter any Nikon DSLR's AF. The intelligent AF system assists you with focus acquisition on the subjects eye way faster than you could ever hope to move the focus points, or even the camera and lens for that matter. As long as you keep the subject in the frame, the camera does the rest really!! There are times of course when it doesn't work, and you can switch back to conventional methods. I use different sized area modes depending on how fast the subject is moving and how busy the background is, and then when initial eye AF has been acquired, I do a 'pass off' to 3D tracking leaving me to focus on keeping the subject in frame which is often challenging enough with fast moving birds.

Of all the Nikon cameras, I would say that the zf, z8 and z9 give you by far the strongest chances of getting keepers when it matters most

DSC_8668 by Gilbo B, on Flickr
DSC_8957 by Gilbo B, on Flickr
 
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gilbouk said:
The z8 is streets ahead in terms of consistent sharpness compared with the D500's AF, or that matter any Nikon DSLR's AF. The intelligent AF system assists you with focus acquisition on the subjects eye way faster than you could ever hope to move the focus points, or even the camera and lens for that matter. As long as you keep the subject in the frame, the camera does the rest really!! There are times of course when it doesn't work, and you can switch back to conventional methods. I use different sized area modes depending on how fast the subject is moving and how busy the background is, and then when initial eye AF has been acquired, I do a 'pass off' to 3D tracking leaving me to focus on keeping the subject in frame which is often challenging enough with fast moving birds.

Of all the Nikon cameras, I would say that the zf, z8 and z9 give you by far the strongest chances of getting keepers when it matters most

DSC_8668 by Gilbo B, on Flickr
DSC_8957 by Gilbo B, on Flickr
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Yes, it's all rather amazing,

The key thing for me is because I am mainly interested in "birds in the landscape" it allows me to concentrate on the composition and leave the camera to look after the focussing. With the D500 I had to work really hard at keeping the bird in focus and struggled to keep track of he overall composition. But keeping flying birds in focus is much much better than I was getting with he D500.

I have F2 set up to hand over to 3d tracking but still struggling to use it as I have rather short fingers.
 
myotis said:
Yes, it's all rather amazing,

The key thing for me is because I am mainly interested in "birds in the landscape" it allows me to concentrate on the composition and leave the camera to look after the focussing. With the D500 I had to work really hard at keeping the bird in focus and struggled to keep track of he overall composition. But keeping flying birds in focus is much much better than I was getting with he D500.

I have F2 set up to hand over to 3d tracking but still struggling to use it as I have rather short fingers.
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Agreed - composition really is helped with the AF on the Z8/Z9.

I too find the F1 and F2 a little too far too reach. I think having the function key on the lens will be my go to for the pass over once I get a lens that has one!!
 
gilbouk said:
Agreed - composition really is helped with the AF on the Z8/Z9.

I too find the F1 and F2 a little too far too reach. I think having the function key on the lens will be my go to for the pass over once I get a lens that has one!!
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I’ve current got the camera set to animal AF. I’ve set the L-Fn2 button the 400 f4.5 to single spot focusing so I can quickly switch over when the animal AF isn’t picking up where I want to focus.

I may swap over the focus modes so that animal AF is activated by the lens button.

I am finding up to now I’ve only used back button focusing which is very different to other Nikon cameras I’ve used. I’d never use back button focusing for wildlife due to needing to move around the focus point position.

I do need to work out how to set up different settings for landscapes and wildlife so that I can quickly switch the Z8 between the two different genres.
 
Using the z8 with 600m PF this last week I find bird autofocus is not at all sticky with a background of trees etc.
I had an Osprey weaving from side to side both above and below the tree line. Above it works fine but below it grabs random trees.
I'm still learning this set up and I think shutter speed of 2500 would have yielded sharper results than the 2000 I used.
The bird was some distance away.
I've also read that sport VR helps with BIF although I didn't get the chance to use this. Anyone like to comment?

For Z8 set up Steve Perry at Back Country Gallery has a good video on this.
 
rob-nikon said:
I do need to work out how to set up different settings for landscapes and wildlife so that I can quickly switch the Z8 between the two different genres.
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I have the shooting memory banks set up on the Z8 (as I did with the D500) so that B, C and D have different settings for different levels of action (slow, medium and fast) , e.g Memory bank D is set up to use a minimum shutter speed of 1/2500 sec and allow auto iso to be unrestricted (at the moment any way, I tend to switch things around)

Memory bank A is set up for full manual and I switch to bank A when I have a stationary subject or landscape where I have time to adjust all settings.knowing I can instantly turn back to memory bank B, C or D if I need to quickly switch back to an action subject..

The memory banks of course remember your last settings (unlike the custom memory settings) but I like this feature, as when I switch between memory banks I go back to the setting that suit the "conditions of the day".

So if it’s a very bright day and I'm trying to photograph small flying birds I may have upped the shutter speed for memory bank D, to 1/5000 sec. If I have then switched to take. a habitat shot (memory bank A) during a lull in bird activity, switching back to Memory bank D takes me back to where I had been 10 minute earlier, and not back to a generic "wildlife" custom set of settings.

The memory banks on the Z8/Z9 /D5/D6/D850/D500 can be a bit confusing at first, but I find them more useful than the custom options in he Z6/Z7/D750 etc . The best approach is from Olympus which combines the features of both approaches. I don't know why after all these years, and a lot of complaints from people who expect the memory banks to work like custom memory settings, Nikon haven't provided a combination option like the Olympus one.

Reikan Focal, offer an app(Ios and android) that allows you to store and restore memory bank settings https://reikanfocal.com/snapshots.html. I have an old license for Reikan, so I plan to give this a look, but it isn't a priority.
 
Peter123 said:
Using the z8 with 600m PF this last week I find bird autofocus is not at all sticky with a background of trees etc.
I had an Osprey weaving from side to side both above and below the tree line. Above it works fine but below it grabs random trees.
I'm still learning this set up and I think shutter speed of 2500 would have yielded sharper results than the 2000 I used.
The bird was some distance away.
I've also read that sport VR helps with BIF although I didn't get the chance to use this. Anyone like to comment?

For Z8 set up Steve Perry at Back Country Gallery has a good video on this.
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Have you got Steve Perry's book on setting up the Z8/Z9 or/and his generic book on h Nikon Z AF system?

I've bought all his books since he published his first one, and find them invaluable reading. The other "must have" are Thom Hogan's books, but I haven't yet bought he Z8 book. I'm still recovering from buying the Z8! I did however immediately buy Steve Perry's S8 set up book, but at 600 pages, it's a lot to take in

Looking up Sport VR in the Z8 setup book, Perry suggest it makes tracking easier with smoothly moving objects, but worse for erratically moving objects. The difference is minimal, but he keeps it on sport most of the time.

My guess is that if you can be more accurate with the subject tracking (sport VR) it might be less likely that the AF will wander onto the background. But tha is my interpretation and not something Perry suggests.

As an aside, I found with my D500 that 1/2500 seemed to be much more successful than 1/2000 or 1/1600, which is where I built up from, Perry suggests a default for fast flying birds of 1/3200
 
nog said:
I have banks saved to some old SD cards not used for anything else, write the date on them and update as required
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Indeed, that is the recommended way of doing it, but I would be interested to see the Reikan interface and what it might offer for setting up the banks, as well saving multiple sets of banks
 
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myotis said:
I have the shooting memory banks set up on the Z8 (as I did with the D500) so that B, C and D have different settings for different levels of action (slow, medium and fast) , e.g Memory bank D is set up to use a minimum shutter speed of 1/2500 sec and allow auto iso to be unrestricted (at the moment any way, I tend to switch things around)

Memory bank A is set up for full manual and I switch to bank A when I have a stationary subject or landscape where I have time to adjust all settings.knowing I can instantly turn back to memory bank B, C or D if I need to quickly switch back to an action subject..

The memory banks of course remember your last settings (unlike the custom memory settings) but I like this feature, as when I switch between memory banks I go back to the setting that suit the "conditions of the day".

So if it’s a very bright day and I'm trying to photograph small flying birds I may have upped the shutter speed for memory bank D, to 1/5000 sec. If I have then switched to take. a habitat shot (memory bank A) during a lull in bird activity, switching back to Memory bank D takes me back to where I had been 10 minute earlier, and not back to a generic "wildlife" custom set of settings.

The memory banks on the Z8/Z9 /D5/D6/D850/D500 can be a bit confusing at first, but I find them more useful than the custom options in he Z6/Z7/D750 etc . The best approach is from Olympus which combines the features of both approaches. I don't know why after all these years, and a lot of complaints from people who expect the memory banks to work like custom memory settings, Nikon haven't provided a combination option like the Olympus one.

Reikan Focal, offer an app(Ios and android) that allows you to store and restore memory bank settings https://reikanfocal.com/snapshots.html. I have an old license for Reikan, so I plan to give this a look, but it isn't a priority.
Click to expand...
Really interesting stuff regarding rekanfocal and the memory bank settings. I must check that out!! Although the stacked sensor and AF capabilities of the Z8 are amazing - I am still to get to grips with as fluid a method of switching all the settings depending on the application.

Currently I have used the Memory banks, and the settings banks and when I switch from say birds to people with flash for example. It does require switching both for complete recall of customised controls and shooting settings as I have certain buttons that do different things given the situation. However as you say, any changes you make while being in the shooting banks overwrites the original saved settings - Canon have the option of either remembering or reverting which I do like. I also miss the rotating wheel at the back present on Sony and Canon mirrorless. I loved using this for easy exposure compensation, and the double step process to change exposure compensation and ISO does need a little getting used to again. Hopefully muscle memory will allow me to eventually do this without taking my eye away from the viewfinder.

As always there are things I love about implementation in each of the brands in their own right, however in terms of capabilities and the images produced, the z8 is the best camera I've ever used.
 
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Peter123 said:
Using the z8 with 600m PF this last week I find bird autofocus is not at all sticky with a background of trees etc.
I had an Osprey weaving from side to side both above and below the tree line. Above it works fine but below it grabs random trees.
I'm still learning this set up and I think shutter speed of 2500 would have yielded sharper results than the 2000 I used.
The bird was some distance away.
I've also read that sport VR helps with BIF although I didn't get the chance to use this. Anyone like to comment?

For Z8 set up Steve Perry at Back Country Gallery has a good video on this.
Click to expand...
I find that mostly when subject AF struggles for birds, the background is not separated enough from the subject for a good photo anyway - and these shots for me are only good enough as record shots but your experience may vary. With initial acquisition on any mirrorless always having been a bit tardy and unable to hunt like a DSLR could, I prefer the ability on Nikon to grab the focus ring to help AF which I believe isn't possible with Canon at least when I had the R6. Once initial AF has been locked on, and the background is rendered far enough out of focus (ie the subject is close enough and large enough) I would say Nikon's subject detection and tracking has been very good on the Z8, although I haven't compared it to the likes of Sony's A1. Sony do have a hard to beat AF system mind you.
 
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gilbouk said:
Really interesting stuff regarding rekanfocal and the memory bank settings. I must check that out!! Although the stacked sensor and AF capabilities of the Z8 are amazing - I am still to get to grips with as fluid a method of switching all the settings depending on the application.

Currently I have used the Memory banks, and the settings banks and when I switch from say birds to people with flash for example. It does require switching both for complete recall of customised controls and shooting settings as I have certain buttons that do different things given the situation. However as you say, any changes you make while being in the shooting banks overwrites the original saved settings - Canon have the option of either remembering or reverting which I do like. I also miss the rotating wheel at the back present on Sony and Canon mirrorless. I loved using this for easy exposure compensation, and the double step process to change exposure compensation and ISO does need a little getting used to again. Hopefully muscle memory will allow me to eventually do this without taking my eye away from the viewfinder.

As always there are things I love about implementation in each of the brands in their own right, however in terms of capabilities and the images produced, the z8 is the best camera I've ever used.
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Interesting that Canon also offer the memory storage options that Olympus offer. Nikon can be pretty stubborn at times, Apparently during the development of the Z9 they polled/consulted with D6/D5 users about changing the memory bank setup for the upcoming Z9 (not sure what changes were being proposed) and users didn't want any changes.

I can understand not wanting "only" the custom memory options found in he Z6/Z7, but can't understand why someone wouldn't want the combination option offered by Olympus and Canon.

Another major Nikon mystery is why they randomly restrict what buttons can be customised to what functions.

There is an "easy exposure compensation" option available on Nikons, but it's only practical with aperture priority. Camera sets shutter speed, front dial sets aperture and rear dial sets exposure compensation. They used to offer an "easy ISO" option but now, depending on what camera model it is, you only get one or the other.

I use this easy exposure compensation option with shooting memory banks B, C and D, and restrict the shutter speed range as part of the auto iso settings, which are different for each memory bank.

You can also make the buttons sticky (ie into a toggle) So you can press the exposure compensation button once and the rear dial works as an exposure compensation dial, until you press the exposure compensation button again when it reverts back to adjusting the aperture. I am assuming the Z8 wll do this, I haven't tried it, but it has worked with my other Nikons.
 
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