Nikon Z* mirrorless

[gilbouk]

I had the Nikon VRII and loved it, fast to focus and renders beautifully. I've not tried the Tamron but looking at sample photos it doesn't render as nicely as the Nikon IMO.

I really loved your tiger shots at the zoo. In fact I think those were some of the first shots that I saw that made me dream of owning a 70-200mm f/2.8 - and that was many years ago. I haven't tried a 70-200mm f/2.8 yet, one of the most popular lenses too!! You must dig them out lol. Did you have a D500 at the time too?

 

[snerkler]

I really loved your tiger shots at the zoo. In fact I think those were some of the first shots that I saw that made me dream of owning a 70-200mm f/2.8 - and that was many years ago. I haven't tried a 70-200mm f/2.8 yet, one of the most popular lenses too!! You must dig them out lol. Did you have a D500 at the time too?

Thanks very much. I didn't usually use the 70-200mm for wildlife parks but I did at one many years ago at Howletts so I'm assuming it's those? I was still pretty much a beginner back then so I pick those shots to pieces I mainly used the 70-200mm for sports and the odd portrait.

These are a few from that day (shot on the D750. ’Funky’ bokeh on the first two due to the fencing.)

DSC_1768 by TDG-77, on Flickr

DSC_1085-Edit by TDG-77, on Flickr

DSC_0938 by TDG-77, on Flickr

And a couple of other wildlife ones with the 70-200mm (shot on the D850)

DSC_6042 by TDG-77, on Flickr

DSC_6303 by TDG-77, on Flickr

 

[Skypilot]

I want to upgrade my old crop D300 to either the Z6 or Z7 (will wait for Mk II versions now)
Budget not really a consideration as I'll be keeping it for a while.

How good would be the Z7 be as an all round camera compared to the Z6 ?
Not really interested in Video mode.

I know the Z6 is considered very good as an all rounder but about 25% of the time I'll want to use the camera for Cityscapes and Landscapes and would love to have the benefit of the extra resolution for these.
I don't really print much but have 4K Benq monitor and do like to pixel peep into details. I also tend to crop a bit.

I'm thinking my D300 is giving me 12mp on my subject where the Z6 would only give me 10mp on the image if cropped to same size or used in crop mode.

I'd like to go for the Z7 but not sure how versatile/friendly it is as an all round, every day snapper compared to the Z6.
I know file size comes up, but my everyday stuff but will probably be shot in Jpeg, using Raw only for Cityscapes, Landscapes or special stuff etc

 

[Brazo]

I want to upgrade my old crop D300 to either the Z6 or Z7 (will wait for Mk II versions now)
Budget not really a consideration as I'll be keeping it for a while.

How good would be the Z7 be as an all round camera compared to the Z6 ?
Not really interested in Video mode.

I know the Z6 is considered very good as an all rounder but about 25% of the time I'll want to use the camera for Cityscapes and Landscapes and would love to have the benefit of the extra resolution for these.
I don't really print much but have 4K Benq monitor and do like to pixel peep into details. I also tend to crop a bit.

I'm thinking my D300 is giving me 12mp on my subject where the Z6 would only give me 10mp on the image if cropped to same size or used in crop mode.

I'd like to go for the Z7 but not sure how versatile/friendly it is as an all round, every day snapper compared to the Z6.
I know file size comes up, but my everyday stuff but will probably be shot in Jpeg, using Raw only for Cityscapes, Landscapes or special stuff etc

I think you’d be fine with the Z7 and the mk2 version even more so, but unless you’ve already bought a huge bunch of Z lenses I’d look at the Canon/Sony systems first.

 

[snerkler]

I want to upgrade my old crop D300 to either the Z6 or Z7 (will wait for Mk II versions now)
Budget not really a consideration as I'll be keeping it for a while.

How good would be the Z7 be as an all round camera compared to the Z6 ?
Not really interested in Video mode.

I know the Z6 is considered very good as an all rounder but about 25% of the time I'll want to use the camera for Cityscapes and Landscapes and would love to have the benefit of the extra resolution for these.
I don't really print much but have 4K Benq monitor and do like to pixel peep into details. I also tend to crop a bit.

I'm thinking my D300 is giving me 12mp on my subject where the Z6 would only give me 10mp on the image if cropped to same size or used in crop mode.

I'd like to go for the Z7 but not sure how versatile/friendly it is as an all round, every day snapper compared to the Z6.
I know file size comes up, but my everyday stuff but will probably be shot in Jpeg, using Raw only for Cityscapes, Landscapes or special stuff etc

I had no issues using the Z7 as an everyday all rounder camera and the Z7-II will be even better so won’t be an issue imo. I didn’t find file size a problem as Nikon has very good lossless compression. I shot raw for everything.

 

[scotty38]

I think you’d be fine with the Z7 and the mk2 version even more so, but unless you’ve already bought a huge bunch of Z lenses I’d look at the Canon/Sony systems first.

Any reasons why please?

 

[Brazo]

Any reasons why please?

Because Nikon are behind the curve in mirrorless and why not look at other systems and find what’s best for you?

 

[scotty38]

Because Nikon are behind the curve in mirrorless and why not look at other systems and find what’s best for you?

Thanks but it’s not really telling me what elements are better on the Sony or Canon. I don’t have any mirrorless yet and was planning on a Z6II so would have like to have heard where you thought the other systems excelled. Yes, I can look at the specs but it doesn’t necessarily tell me what I’d find out by using them....

 

[Cagey75]

What exactly is the point of the Z5? It's barely cheaper than a Z6 anywhere I look, there's £100 in the difference. The only reason I can see anyone buy the Z5 is because it uses SD cards

 

[snerkler]

Thanks but it’s not really telling me what elements are better on the Sony or Canon. I don’t have any mirrorless yet and was planning on a Z6II so would have like to have heard where you thought the other systems excelled. Yes, I can look at the specs but it doesn’t necessarily tell me what I’d find out by using them....

Nikon have been behind in autofocus speed and accuracy, as well as relatively poorly implemented eye-AF. Then there's the whole single card slot debate, although the gen 2's are allegedly going to have 2 card slots. Also, they're behind in terms of frame rate, at least when seeing real time in the EVF. Then you have the unique blackout free EVF of the Sony A9's.

TBH I think Nikon will catch up with everything with the gen2's, except maybe the blackout free EVF and so Nikon may even be ahead overall as they have better ergonomics, well over Sony anyway.

The last thing to consider is native mount glass. The range of native mount glass for Canikon is still quite a way off Sony, which has almost every lens you are likely to want.

 

[toohuge]

What exactly is the point of the Z5? It's barely cheaper than a Z6 anywhere I look, there's £100 in the difference. The only reason I can see anyone buy the Z5 is because it uses SD cards

I think the Z5 was released with the Z6&7 ii and Z9 in mind. As the other bodies will likely be significantly more expensive and then their line up will make sense.

 

[Cagey75]

I think the Z5 was released with the Z6&7 ii and Z9 in mind. As the other bodies will likely be significantly more expensive and then their line up will make sense.

Maybe so but right now, it seems oddly placed. Why would anyone buy this right now over a Z6? [apart from cards being cheaper] - the Z6 has better video, higher res LCD, a top plate LCD, it can shoot much faster continuous and has a BSI sensor over the Z5. The pricing just seems wrong, it should be a lot cheaper

 

[Brazo]

Thanks but it’s not really telling me what elements are better on the Sony or Canon. I don’t have any mirrorless yet and was planning on a Z6II so would have like to have heard where you thought the other systems excelled. Yes, I can look at the specs but it doesn’t necessarily tell me what I’d find out by using them....

Snerkler said it well but sadly they seem to be content with playing (eventual) catch-up rather than innovating. There’s an interesting article here, yes it’s click bait and over the top but the underlying principles to each point can’t be denied.

Is There Anything Nikon Can Do to Keep Up With the Competition?

On the 14th of October, Nikon is set to announce its latest cameras. These are due to be updates to the Z 7 and Z 6 mirrorless cameras. There are a lot of

petapixel.com

of course none of this makes them bad cameras in any way but the competition is ahead hence my comments to consider them too.

 

[scotty38]

Thanks will have a read. Very happy to consider others, despite a few Nikkors, just needed to know what I’m looking for if that makes sense....

 

[Luftwalk]

The Sony probably does have an edge when it comes to AF-C and tracking in general, but that doesn't mean the Zs are incapable of action shots. Some from today, using a Z6 and an old F mount 300/2.8:

Ajka by luftwalk, on Flickr

Ajka by luftwalk, on Flickr

Ajka by luftwalk, on Flickr

 

[Skypilot]

Not long until Wednesday

 

[wilt]

I'm looking forward to it. I might be tempted by the Z7II, or wait for the far off rumoured Z9.

 

[lunar22]

Snerkler said it well but sadly they seem to be content with playing (eventual) catch-up rather than innovating. There’s an interesting article here, yes it’s click bait and over the top but the underlying principles to each point can’t be denied.

Is There Anything Nikon Can Do to Keep Up With the Competition?

On the 14th of October, Nikon is set to announce its latest cameras. These are due to be updates to the Z 7 and Z 6 mirrorless cameras. There are a lot of

petapixel.com

of course none of this makes them bad cameras in any way but the competition is ahead hence my comments to consider them too.

I must say, that's a pretty contentious article. I agree that there's nothing especially innovative with the Z cameras but that's not the point. Nikon has a better EVF v A7iii and much better haptics to name but two strengths. The f1.8 S primes (esp. the outstanding 50mm) can in no way be compared to Sony in quality. Sony has very expensive and heavy primes if you want something decent. Sony's two main selling points seem to me to be better tracking AF which is only of interest if you actually use such a feature, and a wider selection of native and third party lenses. This is undeniable but many of Nikon's more recent F lenses work perfectly well with the Z which helps to compensate.

Having said that, my conclusion would be the same. Evaluate and if possible try out all three systems and see what's best for you personal needs. Obviously, you'll want to see what Wednesday's announcement brings to the table for Nikon.

 

[scotty38]

Thanks for that too. I'm certainly waiting to see what pricing looks like but I've not discounted the A7III as an alternative. If I stick with Nikon I can use my Nikkors, of which two are half decent, a 17-35 f2.8 AF-S and also an 85 f1.4. Wednesdays pricing will no doubt put a big gap between the A7III and Z6II and I could probably use that difference to purchase Sony equivalents of my Nikkors, plus of course any additional funds should I sell them.

Decisions, decisions......

 

[snerkler]

I must say, that's a pretty contentious article. I agree that there's nothing especially innovative with the Z cameras but that's not the point. Nikon has a better EVF v A7iii and much better haptics to name but two strengths. The f1.8 S primes (esp. the outstanding 50mm) can in no way be compared to Sony in quality. Sony has very expensive and heavy primes if you want something decent. Sony's two main selling points seem to me to be better tracking AF which is only of interest if you actually use such a feature, and a wider selection of native and third party lenses. This is undeniable but many of Nikon's more recent F lenses work perfectly well with the Z which helps to compensate.

Having said that, my conclusion would be the same. Evaluate and if possible try out all three systems and see what's best for you personal needs. Obviously, you'll want to see what Wednesday's announcement brings to the table for Nikon.

That's not true tbh, the only area that the Sony lens lineup is lacking something decent and relatively cheap is the 50mm, I'm not sure why Sony hasn't improved their 50mm f1.8 tbh. That being said there are third party native options. The Nikon 50mm f1.8s is hard to beat though. The Sony 55mm f1.8 isn't 'that' more expensive than the Nikon 50mm and is sharp as a sharp thing.

 

[lunar22]

the Nikon last autumn was barely half the price of the Sony 55mm at around £300-325 and a bargain when one of the seemingly endless sales was on. I nearly bought it but prices have gone up a lot since Covid. As you say, Sony obviously wins out in quantity anyway when you include third party options.

 

[snerkler]

the Nikon last autumn was barely half the price of the Sony 55mm at around £300-325 and a bargain when one of the seemingly endless sales was on. I nearly bought it but prices have gone up a lot since Covid. As you say, Sony obviously wins out in quantity anyway when you include third party options.

Yep the Nikon was a steal during the ‘sale’. Lens prices seem to have gone up again lately across the board

 

[myotis]

My apologies if this has been posted before, but I thought this was interesting, if nothing else to demonstrate how much the lens being used might affect AF performance, and published test results

It's looking at the Nikon 300mm f4 pf lens with FTZ on Z50 and Z6 photographing BIF and updates an earlier test with the Z6 using older firmware and a third party zoom. There was a big improvement in the Z6 performance compared to his earlier test. Still only a relatively low fps, but it ogres well for the Z6 II.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G6vel-hbAg

 

[gilbouk]

Not long until Wednesday

I'm looking forward to it. I might be tempted by the Z7II, or wait for the far off rumoured Z9.

I must say, that's a pretty contentious article. I agree that there's nothing especially innovative with the Z cameras but that's not the point. Nikon has a better EVF v A7iii and much better haptics to name but two strengths. The f1.8 S primes (esp. the outstanding 50mm) can in no way be compared to Sony in quality. Sony has very expensive and heavy primes if you want something decent. Sony's two main selling points seem to me to be better tracking AF which is only of interest if you actually use such a feature, and a wider selection of native and third party lenses. This is undeniable but many of Nikon's more recent F lenses work perfectly well with the Z which helps to compensate.

Having said that, my conclusion would be the same. Evaluate and if possible try out all three systems and see what's best for you personal needs. Obviously, you'll want to see what Wednesday's announcement brings to the table for Nikon.

Thanks for that too. I'm certainly waiting to see what pricing looks like but I've not discounted the A7III as an alternative. If I stick with Nikon I can use my Nikkors, of which two are half decent, a 17-35 f2.8 AF-S and also an 85 f1.4. Wednesdays pricing will no doubt put a big gap between the A7III and Z6II and I could probably use that difference to purchase Sony equivalents of my Nikkors, plus of course any additional funds should I sell them.

Decisions, decisions......

Really hoping the new models bring reliable face and eye AF to the table. I’ve not been impressed lately with reliability for moving subjects and can often do better by placing single point myself on my z6. In all other aspects though, I love my z6 and will either buy a z7 or one of the new models if Eye AF is improved

 

[gilbouk]

Got the 70-200mm f/2.8 FL lastnight from lenses for hire. Typical, today is a miserable day!! Hope I get to use it plenty before next Monday.

 

[Sootchucker]

So who's interested in tomorrow's announcement. TBH, unless AF-C is dramatically improved (about the only thing that my Z6 and Z7 could really do with) I can't see me upgrading (famous last words).

Will be nice to see what the full definitive change list is though for both cameras.

 

[wibbly]

I'll be quite interested to see what happens to used prices on the Z6 once the Mark 2 models are released.

I'm quite happy with the Fuji kit I have in the hand, but I do miss those lovely Nikon colours!

 

[snerkler]

So who's interested in tomorrow's announcement. TBH, unless AF-C is dramatically improved (about the only thing that my Z6 and Z7 could really do with) I can't see me upgrading (famous last words).

Will be nice to see what the full definitive change list is though for both cameras.

Improved AF, improved eye-AF, higher frame rate and dual card slots and job’s a good ‘un

 

[lunar22]

I'm getting slightly more interested but the chances of upgrading are virtually nil -- for the first time, I already have a camera which really does just about everything I could want of it. Perhaps when the Z6iii hits the second hand market in a few years time.

 

[ecniv]

@scotty38 If you can, before complete lock down, go and try them in a camera store, handle and hint you are very interested in buying. Also ask for the competitors (sony, canon, leica etc)
If you have decent lenses, look at a lens adaptor.
I had a d300 and a fair few lenses.
Traded to a used Leica typ240 mp (always wanted a leica, but also wanted full frame), kept a few nikon lenses (105mm macro, lens baby) and got an adapter.
Now got tempted (and GAS) and upgraded to a used m10.
But as I was considering the upgrade, visited the stores to compare z6 and z7. They are light and plasticy. Need a specific memory card. But they have adapters to nikon f mount to save on lens in the short term.... long term trade them to proper z lenses perhaps.
But I always find it best to handle them first. besides its a lot of money.
Or alternatively if there is a rental place in your area/postal, try them out over a week end and compare to your current camera/lenses. See what the differences are. Whichever you like the most, buy that one. Should be considerably cheaper to rent than to buy wrong...

Good luck!

 

[scotty38]

Thanks, not sure I'll get to handle them but no worries... However, plasticy, really that's not great?

 

[wilt]

They're certainly not plasticky. They are well built and rugged.

 

[scotty38]

They're certainly not plasticky. They are well built and rugged.

Good to hear this, I must admit it's what i thought given all I've read....

 

[rob-nikon]

Just received an email from fixation to say the Z6II and Z7ii have arrived. It’s good to see Nikon have priced them competitively, £1999 for the Z6II and £2999 for the Z7ii. That’s quite refreshing to see in this day where the price of new releases is ever increasing.

Nikon Z6 II Digital Camera Body | Wex Photo Video

www.wexphotovideo.com

Nikon Z7 II Digital Camera Body | Wex Photo Video

www.wexphotovideo.com

 

[TGphoto]

Look good and keenly priced when considering the competition!

 

[JasonPC]

Decent trade in bonus as well.

 

[Sootchucker]

Well I wasn't expecting too much. Some good changes, but also a lot of recycled specs as well.

Missing or the same
Same EVF (but it was already a good one, though the newer 5mp one would have been nice like Canon and Panasonic).
no internal 10 bit video,
Z6 with 4k 60 at DX crop only (and even then only via a promised firmware upgrade next year).
Same sensors as MK1 versions (although to be fair that's not a bad thing).
No 8K option (although not something I'd ever use).
No UI changes (that I've read about)

New
Dual card slot (2nd one being SDXC UHS II),
3 times the buffer capacity on both Z6 II and Z7 II,
ability to use eye AF in wide area modes, and eye AF for video.
Being able to use the camera whilst powered off an external battery.
Z6 max long exposure time now 800 seconds (or something like that).
Proper battery grip with shutter release controls (though sadly not compatible with the mark 1 Z's).
Slightly faster frame rates
Promised better AF and more low light capability (though remains to be proven when the reviews start coming in).
HDR HLG video recording

What's your thoughts ? Pricing as mentioned seems pretty aggressive, but TBH, there's not whole lot to tempt me to lose a fortune on my current Z's and upgrade. To me, this is what the Z camera's should have been at launch, and we should now be on a proper 2nd generation to compete with the best of Canon and Sony. Don't get me wrong, Nikon did a lot of things brilliantly with the Z's as their first full frame mirrorless offerings, but the competition doesn't sit still, and with an ever shrinking market, you really need some stand out features to capture sales, and respectfully, nothing in the MK2 cameras offers anything new that other's haven't been already doing (and some even better). I can see a lot of bashing come Nikon's way from the Canon and Sony fanboys.

Anyway, It's lenses for me now. Come on Nikon, launch that 200-600 Z mount on your roadmap.

 

[snerkler]

Well I wasn't expecting too much. Some good changes, but also a lot of recycled specs as well.

Missing or the same
Same EVF (but it was already a good one, though the newer 5mp one would have been nice like Canon and Panasonic).
no internal 10 bit video,
Z6 with 4k 60 at DX crop only (and even then only via a promised firmware upgrade next year).
Same sensors as MK1 versions (although to be fair that's not a bad thing).
No 8K option (although not something I'd ever use).
No UI changes (that I've read about)

New
Dual card slot (2nd one being SDXC UHS II),
3 times the buffer capacity on both Z6 II and Z7 II,
ability to use eye AF in wide area modes, and eye AF for video.
Being able to use the camera whilst powered off an external battery.
Z6 max long exposure time now 800 seconds (or something like that).
Proper battery grip with shutter release controls (though sadly not compatible with the mark 1 Z's).
Slightly faster frame rates
Promised better AF and more low light capability (though remains to be proven when the reviews start coming in).
HDR HLG video recording

What's your thoughts ? Pricing as mentioned seems pretty aggressive, but TBH, there's not whole lot to tempt me to lose a fortune on my current Z's and upgrade. It's lenses for me now. Come on Nikon, launch that 200-600 Z mount on your roadmap.

Pretty much as expected, the only disappointment imo is the eye-af 'only' being used in wide area modes. Don't get me wrong these work really well if there's only one person in the frame, but if there's multiple people in the frame it doesn't allow you to quickly and easily choose which person you want to focus on. Sony are the only ones still where I've seen that they've implemented this, i.e. you can use single point tracking so you can select the person with the single point and then the camera will track their eyes.

Still damn fine cameras though, and I've got to say they've priced them well. IIRC the Z7-II is cheaper than the Z7 at release?

 

[JJ!]

Ohhh they are here. Now I see that the Z6 II does 14fps. Is that with AF And not just in live view?

 

[Sootchucker]

Not that they are in the same class of camera, but my Olympus EM1-X and EM1 MK III (and earlier Olympus bodies), also have eye AF in single point mode and allows you to switch from face to face via the joystick. Also they allow just eye AF, Left Eye AF or Right Eye AF. But like I say, we are talking different class cameras here, so just in FF terms, Sony still rules the roost on that feature.