Nikon to face lawsuit over D600?

[gramps]

Law firm collects Nikon D600 sensor dust/spot complaints for a potential class action lawsuit

Nikon Rumours

 

[boyfalldown]

'Mericans :banghead:

 

[Ed Sutton]

'Mericans :banghead:

Lawyers...

 

[Pookeyhead]

I read this yesterday. Pathetic. Suing Nikon because they had to get their cameras "repaired". I don't know who's worse, Lawyers for stirring up a hornet's nest, or the dumb photographers who can't be arsed cleaning the sensor.

 

[ukaskew]

Whilst obviously the lawsuit is nuts, Nikon really only have themselves to blame for the mess. The D610 is essentially an admission (without saying so) that there was an inherent fault with the D600 and has done nothing but irritate many frustrated D600 owners

I had one from new and the dust/oil was pretty much immediate and relentless, something I've never experienced before. Yes you can send it for a clean, but for many having £1k tied up in something that you can't use for periods of time (particuarly if your only body) is not on, and I could easily appreciate how many would deem it not fit for purpose.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I had one from new as well. I cleaned the sensor. (shrug)



What's all this "send it for a clean"? LOL.

 

[Spiritflier]

...What's all this "send it for a clean"? LOL.

Some people simply don't feel comfortable cleaning their own sensors. I've been doing it for years and I still feel a bit apprehensive each time!

If you're happy to do your own, then fine but don't belittle those who can't or don't want to do it!

 

[Pookeyhead]

I'm not.. I'm trying to save them a lot of time, and money. There's a menu option that locks up the mirror for cleaning. It's not some secret hidden engineering menu... it's in the manual. Buy a pack of cleaning swabs and fluid... easy. The sensor is not as sensitive as people seem to think. You can't touch the sensor surface directly as it's behind the low pass and IR filters. So long as you fully charged battery when you engage cleaning mode, there's no risk.

Use a rocket blower to remove dust and any particulates, then use a moistened swab to wipe in a single motion across the sensor. It takes about a minute. I've seen some places charge £40!! Park cameras do for example.. FORTY QUID and THREE DAYS!

If you think I'm belittling people fine... sometimes though, the best way to make people realise something like this is to make them feel a little stupid for spending £40 on something they could do themselves in minutes. If that makes me the bad guy.. so be it. I can live with that.

 

[Spiritflier]

...If you think I'm belittling people fine... sometimes though, the best way to make people realise something like this is to make them feel a little stupid for spending £40 on something they could do themselves in minutes. If that makes me the bad guy.. so be it. I can live with that.

Personally, I think that attitude sucks but I suppose not everyone can have good people skills! You do it your way (which is the same way I do it) but don't knock those who'd prefer to get someone else to do it for them!

 

[Pookeyhead]

I'm not bothered mate. Carry on thinking that spending £40 on something that takes a "technician" 2 minutes to do is fine then if you want. That's up to you. Personally I can't stand seeing people ripped off mercilessly by those preying on people's ignorance. If only one person who reads this thread realises they're being stitched up, I'm happy. If the price I pay for that is one person I don't know and probably will never meet thinks badly of me, then it's a bargain. Your opinion of me is irrelevant.

 

[Tirpitz]

i've always cleaned my own sensors, its not hard & i'd certainly feel mugged if i paid somebody £40 to do it

i don't think anyone was being belittled. David was just trying to get a point across

 

[Spiritflier]

...I don't think anyone was being belittled. David was just trying to get a point across

Badly as usual! Thankfully there's an 'ignore' button so I don't have to look at his posts any more!

 

[Chris Wilson]

"Personally I can't stand seeing people ripped off mercilessly by those preying on people's ignorance."
And there's the rub David.
Nikon have sent out many cameras with a serious fault and deserve to get a serious kicking for it.
It's a quality issue not a cleaning issue.
And then there are the numerous faults with the D800.
Just my 2c
cheers, cw

 

[Hunders]

I didn't know anything about this issue until now but if it's true then Nikon deserve a good hiding for this. I'd be terribly annoyed if I had to regularly clean my sensor because of a design/manufacturing flaw.

 

[Nikon newbie]

I had one from new as well. I cleaned the sensor. (shrug)



What's all this "send it for a clean"? LOL.

I am still waiting for someone to confirm that cleaning your own sensor within the first two years of a Nikon body ownership invalidates the warranty. That's the reason why many maybe did/could not clean their own sensors.

Yes it's a two minute job but the whole process of sending it off, waiting, getting it back takes time. And as some (on this forum included) have had to keep sending theirs back (in some cases as soon as they initially received it back the first time from Nikon), that's unacceptable. Again, if it's your only body, that downtime can be very infuriating.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Yeah, but to sue them?? What for? So if they win, Nikon will have to pay out milllions. That will harm Nikon, and all Nikon users. It's a stupid and dumb thing to do and clearly instigated by ****ing lawyers who see an opportunity to scalp a multi-national for some cash.

Nikon have NOT sent out cameras with a "serious fault" at all. They sent out cameras that had some issues with lubrication, that a couple sensor cleans would remedy. Mine did it too... it stopped after around 4K shots. I had to clean the sensor 2 or 3 times (can't recall now). You'd possibly have to clean a sensor regardless in that time.. they get dust and crap on them all the time. Unless you live in a sterile vacuum, you're going to get crap on your sensor.

The D800 had left AF issues... which you could get repaired for free. Nikon DID also offer repair or replacement for the D600. So what are they being sued for?

It's ridiculous. It's the same risk averse, namby pamby wrapped in cotton wool sensibilities that make people react like Spiritflier above just because I think anyone who pays £40 for a sensor clean is an idiot. Grow a pair FFS! Nikon haven't harmed you in any way. They've not sold you a product that has safety implications for you and your family. They released a camera that needed it's sensor cleaning more than usual. Suing them is genuinely pathetic.

It's THAT easy.

Here's a medium format back...

You reckon I send it back each time it gets some crap on it?? Really? It's designed to be removed like this.... have a guess how often it needs cleaning.

Your sensor is no different... you just have to open your shutter to clean it.. something the manufacturer provided for in your menu system. It's all explained in the D600/610 manual on page 303.

I am still waiting for someone to confirm that cleaning your own sensor within the first two years of a Nikon body ownership invalidates the warranty.

How can it? It's in the manual and explains how to do it? It's a feature of the camera... "Lock Mirror Up For Cleaning".... It's right there in the set up menu! Nowhere does it say that this will invalidate the warranty. All it states is that Nikon recommend you get Nikon-Authorised personnel to do it. But this is a society that needs a warning on a McDonald's apple pie saying "Caution - Contents will be hot". Join up the dots in this argument

Yes it's a two minute job but the whole process of sending it off, waiting, getting it back takes time.

Don't send it off then.

I've cleaned my own sensors for years. It's NOT dangerous or difficult. It's easy, simple, and safe if you follow some simple instructions.... instructions that posts like this hopefully will draw people's attention to, so that they don't have to constantly get ripped off for doing something that takes a "technician" 2 minutes to do... and result in utterly mindless and pathetic law suits.

Here's the link again...

It's that easy. Your choice... £40.... or this.

The only thing I will add is that I WOULD NOT use an aerosol blower... if you inadvertently tilt it too much, it can expel the propellant.. which can freeze and damage the sensor. Just use a blower such as the Rocket Blower

 

[OldCarlos]

It's not as though the `do it yourself` cleaning kits are cheap either (obviously cheaper than paying for someone else to do it) but they aint pennies!

Nikon did clean many sensors for free btw, but even though I hate the litigious culture, Nikon made the balls-up, so they only have themselves to blame for their lack of customer service & information.

 

[Ed Sutton]

It's internet hysteria - and a lawyer seeing a way to make some cash.

Didn't the D3 and D3S spray oil on the sensor when they were new?

 

[Tirpitz]

when i first had the disappointment of realising i had a dirty sensor, getting home & seeing the smudges on loads of images my next moves followed in the order below..


i looked at the cost of getting it cleaned, i looked at the cost of buying kit to clean it myself, i watched a youtube vid on how to do it, bought the kit, watched the vid again & then cleaned it.
it was easy. you just need to be confident enough to get in there

 

[big soft moose]

I've cleaned my own sensors for years. It's NOT dangerous or difficult. It's easy, simple, and safe if you follow some simple instructions.... instructions that posts like this hopefully will draw people's attention to, so that they don't have to constantly get ripped off for doing something that takes a "technician" 2 minutes to do... and result in utterly mindless and pathetic law suits.
.

no I agree its not , but if you happen to make an error and scratch the antialiasing filter , then you are properly screwed as your warranty won't cover it and the cost of getting it fixed may be more than the camera is worth.

Its also deeply misleading to tell people that their camera sensor is no different to that on a MF back - this is cobblers, as the sensor in a DSLR (or more accurately the AA filter which sits immediately in front of it) is much more fragile and easy to damage than the one on your back

And secondly a good cleaning service do the work in 'clean room' conditions - doing it yourself often introduces nearly as much cack as you remove.

So yes its easy - its also fairly easy to cock up - so people take their choice as to whether they take the risk in order to save some money , but theres no call for being scathing about those who choose otherwise

Personally I only clean mine with a hurricane blower and an arctic butterfly , I don't wet clean - Tbh I haven't needed to have it cleaned in over a year - sensible lens discipline and the vibrating technology in newer cameras has meant that it hasn't been necessary. If I get something that won't shift without wet cleaning I use the while you wait service at Fixation - the only hazard there is a nasty attack of GAS during the 20 minutes or so it takes.

 

[JonathanRyan]

These lawsuits disgust me.

Reminds me of this http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9829266-7.html

IIRC consumers got about $10 each in America only, firms paid out a lot of money (leading obviously to higher costs), lawyers got very rich indeed. Over an issue that didn't disadvantage anybody at all ever.

Could I sue if I bought a white car? They have an obvious defect that they get dirty faster than black cars.

 

[Steve Smith]

Nikon have NOT sent out cameras with a "serious fault" at all. They sent out cameras that had some issues with lubrication, that a couple sensor cleans would remedy.

All they would really be liable for is to pay for the sensor cleaning where required on a case by case basis to make the cameras fit for purpose.


Steve.

 

[Pookeyhead]

It's not as though the `do it yourself` cleaning kits are cheap either (obviously cheaper than paying for someone else to do it) but they aint pennies!

PEC pads are £12 per 100. Fluid is £13, and there's enough for hundreds of cleans. I've just worked it out as £0.18p per sensor clean.

Nikon did clean many sensors for free btw, but even though I hate the litigious culture, Nikon made the balls-up, so they only have themselves to blame for their lack of customer service & information.

They cleaned sensors, and actually replaced cameras and shutters. Yes, it was their balls up... so what? Why sue them? They were obviously sorting it out for those who could be arsed to do something about it instead of whining like big girls on forums. They don't deserve to be sued. They'll not actually BE sued actually... the case won't stand up, as they were clearly prepared to rectify customer's problems. What is there to sue for?

when i first had the disappointment of realising i had a dirty sensor, getting home & seeing the smudges on loads of images my next moves followed in the order below..


i looked at the cost of getting it cleaned, i looked at the cost of buying kit to clean it myself, i watched a youtube vid on how to do it, bought the kit, watched the vid again & then cleaned it.
it was easy. you just need to be confident enough to get in there

Exactly. What you didn't do, was whine abut it in here... pay someone £40 to clean it, then start suing Nikon. That's because you were sensible, and not a reactionary, whining idiot like those who are suing Nikon clearly are.

no I agree its not , but if you happen to make an error and scratch the antialiasing filter , then you are properly screwed as your warranty won't cover it and the cost of getting it fixed may be more than the camera is worth.

Then don't scratch it. Seriously... blow all the crap off.. inspect it with a loupe or magnifying glass, and you won't scratch it. They are NOT as sensitive as people think. I remember when a Phase One H20 back we used to use was getting on in years, I used to clean it's sensor with the end of my t-shirt!. I am NOT recommending this BTW.... just using it as an example of how sensors are NOT as sensitive as people seem to think they are. People have this idea of when they send their camera away to be cleaned, it's all going to happen in some clean room , with technicians dressed in white, self contained suits like you see on a Intel advert. Rubbish... some bloke will do what you can do for pennies.... and they'll charge you £40 for it.

Its also deeply misleading to tell people that their camera sensor is no different to that on a MF back - this is cobblers, as the sensor in a DSLR (or more accurately the AA filter which sits immediately in front of it) is much more fragile and easy to damage than the one on your back

Really? I I've not taken the IQ apart, but I have the H20 and I see no reason why it would be different. It would be just as easy to scratch as any other filter. The filters I removed from my D610 seem to be identical to those that were covering the H20's sensor.. I have a D600 filter in my hand right now What makes you think they're more sensitive in a DSLR? Would you care to provide some evidence for your statement?

Regardless... I've lost count of how many times I've cleaned sensors in DSLRs. The technicians at work do it about 20 times a week. I've cleaned my own cameras regularly... it's routine care for me. I've never once damaged a camera. It's just utter crap that it's somehow dangerous. Follow WELL PUBLISHED guidelines, and you'll have no problem whatsoever.

And secondly a good cleaning service do the work in 'clean room' conditions - doing it yourself often introduces nearly as much cack as you remove.

Don't make me laugh! Clean room.. LOL. First.. that's nonsense. I know of NO ONE who has a clean room. You even know what that means?? That means a sterile, controlled environment, maintained at above atmospheric pressure, with air locks, micron filtration self contained air con systems, and staff in clean suits.. you reckon Park cameras do that? [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]. Fixation probably make a decent stab it it... but it's far from a "clean room". Plus... I've cleaned my cameras hundreds of times, sitting right here, at this desk, in this room, which is FAR from a clean room. I've always managed to clean the sensor quite satisfactorily.

So yes its easy - its also fairly easy to cock up -

If you don't follow guidelines, or do a little research, or use the wrong equipment... sure. You can cause damage making a slice of toast if you're an idiot though.

so people take their choice as to whether they take the risk in order to save some money , but theres no call for being scathing about those who choose otherwise

Hardly scathing... but anyone suing Nikon is an idiot. Sorry.. they just are. That's my opinion. Money grabbing, ignorant idiots.

 

[ukaskew]

I'm not sure where £40 came from, Nikon were/are accepting D600s back for a clean under warranty, which regardless of an individual's ability/patience is the only way of being absolutely sure that it's done properly (and for free) without further warranty issues.

The most unfortunate thing from my point of view is the usual attitude of a minority on the internet. Sure, some people had no issues, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. There were plenty of reports of fairly well 'baked on' gunk that had to go back to Nikon. The D610 is as good as proof that there was an inherent issue, regardless of whether every individual experienced it or not.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I'm not sure where £40 came from,

Seems to be an average price for sensor cleaning services if you go shopping for it online.


I'm just baffled as to what they're being sued for. If you contacted Nikon regarding the problem, they would have sorted it for you.

 

[Dr_O]

In a way I think this could be good thing- it might shake up their working practices a bit and those of their rivals as well. Lets be honest- the D600 was a PR disaster no matter which side you sit on. The handling of the D800 issues was not great either. Harks back to Canon and the denial of the 1D MkIII AF issues. Ostrich Syndrome seems to be a major factor for Japanese companies in general- Sony, Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Toyota, Tepco etc. None of them have been open and honest- I'm not saying western businesses are flawless in their corporate responsibility either but banks and power companies aside, I would put more faith in them accepting an issue exists and taking action rather than the 'move along, nothing to see attitude' where it seems 'face' is put above everything else.

 

[big soft moose]

then don't scratch it

Advice like that is like telling a driver "drive carefully, don't have a crash " - accidents happen, even when people are careful. as I said its up to the individual whether they feel like risking it or not

and Medium format sensors aren't the same - you can breathe on them and clean them with your teeshirt if you must - DSLRs are more fragile - that is a fact . How fragile is a matter for debate but I do know a guy who totally knackered the sensor in his 5D2 cleaning it on safari - he missed a single spec of sand which then scratched a line right across the AA sensor taking it out of play. At that point he'd cleaned the sensor loads of times without incident - but no one is perfect and cock ups can happen at to anyone

 

[gramps]

All sensors need cleaning at some point but reports show it is clear that many of the D600's needed exceptionally frequent sensor cleaning and that should not be necessary unless the camera is effectively mis-used - these reports give anecdotal but clear evidence that at least some of the D600's had a fault (which Nikon admitted in a roundabout way in the actions they took with those cameras which were returned returned and the subsequent release of the D610).

Now I clean my sensors myself, both dry cleaning and wet cleaning but not everyone wants to do this or feels confident about doing this and for those, getting it cleaned commercially on an unnecessarily regular basis would be incurring additional expense which is unreasonable. You don't expect to by a new TV and have to take it back every few months at your own expense to get a problem fixed ... a camera should be no different.
'At your own expense' would include the unnecessarily frequent purchase/use of the necessary cleaning materials if you decided to do it each time yourself.

Add to the fact that the D600 was aimed at a wide consumer base, including many amateur/inexperienced/new photographers, and amongst them will have been many who will never be confident in cleaning their sensors no matter how many youtube videos they watch or forum threads they read and many more who realise that they jeopardise their camera warranty if they do clean it themselves!.

'Belittle'?

To belittle means to put down, or to make another person feel as though they aren't important - a cruel way of making someone else seem less important than yourself.

Interestingly those who belittle others generally do so as they have an insecure feeling about their own abilities, hence they put others down in an attempt to make themselves appear more important/able.

 

[Steve Smith]

They'll not actually BE sued actually... the case won't stand up, as they were clearly prepared to rectify customer's problems. What is there to sue for?

I agree. It's a frivolous claim which is highly unlikely to get to court. Especially as your first port of call with a complaint is the supplier, not the manufacturer.

I know of NO ONE who has a clean room

You do now. I have clean rooms at work, Precision screen printing of conductive inks on flexible electronic and medical items. A proper clean room has positive air pressure so when a door is opened, air escapes but unclean air does not enter. And that air is heavily filtered to prevent contamination. I'm sure none of the companies offer cleaning have or need anything like this.

I don't think they would allow me to take a camera into our room to clean it though. Even if you did take a camera into a clean room, the air already in the camera isn't as clean.

A quick sensor clean properly done would hardly benefit at all from being done in a proper clean room.


Steve.

 

[Gary Coyle]

My old D600 needed cleaning every single time i used it, i sent the bloody thing back for a refund.

 

[big soft moose]

Just to clarify I meant a clean room - as in they clean your camera in a room that is clean at a proper work bench under good lighting, while wearing clean overalls etc - unlike you doing it in the lounge with bits of dog hair and sofa fluff floating about and crumbs from this mornings breakfast falling out of your beard. I didn't mean to imply they do it in a clean room like the one described by Steve above

in his book DSLR masterclass Andy Rouse mentions one chucklehead who got marmalade on his sensor while cleaning it - I don't think that would have happened at a paid for service

 

[Steve Smith]

They don't allow marmalade in our cleanrooms either!


Steve.

 

[Pookeyhead]

You do now. I have clean rooms at work,

You're number 1.

A proper clean room has positive air pressure so when a door is opened, air escapes but unclean air does not enter. And that air is heavily filtered to prevent contamination.

I know.. I wrote almost exactly the same sentence further up

I'm sure none of the companies offer cleaning have or need anything like this.

I'm bloody sure they don't. LOL You don't need a clean room to clean a bloody sensor!

A quick sensor clean properly done would hardly benefit at all from being done in a proper clean room.


Steve.

I wouldn't. I clean mine right here. Clean desk, good light.. not much else required, you're right.

Just to clarify I meant a clean room - as in they clean your camera in a room that is clean at a proper work bench under good lighting, while wearing clean overalls etc - unlike you doing it in the lounge with bits of dog hair and sofa fluff floating about and crumbs from this mornings breakfast falling out of your beard. I didn't mean to imply they do it in a clean room like the one described by Steve above

So not a clean room at all then.... just a room... that's clean. If anyone is doing this sitting on a sofa covered in dog hair... then we're back to people being justifiably called idiots then aren't we.

in his book DSLR masterclass Andy Rouse mentions one chucklehead who got marmalade on his sensor while cleaning it - I don't think that would have happened at a paid for service

Copy and paste my last sentence here

All sensors need cleaning at some point but reports show it is clear that many of the D600's needed exceptionally frequent sensor cleaning and that should not be necessary unless the camera is effectively mis-used - these reports give anecdotal but clear evidence that at least some of the D600's had a fault (which Nikon admitted in a roundabout way in the actions they took with those cameras which were returned returned and the subsequent release of the D610).

Yeah.. they did, and Nikon were, and still are prepared to repair or replace these cameras. I fail to see the problem. Certainly not cause to begin legal proceedings is it?

Interestingly those who belittle others generally do so as they have an insecure feeling about their own abilities, hence they put others down in an attempt to make themselves appear more important/able.

Nice try Gramps. I've long since stopped biting at your bait. Just accept the fact we don't get along and press the ignore button please, and stop trolling.

 

[jerry12953]

I'm not bothered mate. Carry on thinking that spending £40 on something that takes a "technician" 2 minutes to do is fine then if you want. That's up to you. Personally I can't stand seeing people ripped off mercilessly by those preying on people's ignorance. If only one person who reads this thread realises they're being stitched up, I'm happy. If the price I pay for that is one person I don't know and probably will never meet thinks badly of me, then it's a bargain. Your opinion of me is irrelevant.

Charming........

 

[gramps]

Nice try Gramps. I've long since stopped biting at your bait. Just accept the fact we don't get along and press the ignore button please, and stop trolling.

No intention of using 'ignore' David, some of the things you say make sense and are informative but you have a very unfortunate and ill-mannered attitude at times which does nothing to enhance your profile. As for trolling, it's actually my thread so I suggest if anyone is the troll it's you ... feel free to use the 'ignore' button if you can't cope with someone pointing out your ill-mannered ways

 

[MWHCVT]

Well b****r it my Brother in Law builds clean rooms for Intel in Ireland so when he is over next I'll have him come build be one for sensor duties

On a serious note I can completely understand why people who brought D600's would be annoyed at having to clean there sensors more frequently as the more you clean it the more opportunity there is for a cleaning error that causes damage...what's more rather than take cameras back to rectify the issue as is the case with Canon on the 5D3 with the light leak issue (that personally I've found to be a none issue in reality so have never got mine done...Nikon instead launched the D610 which smacks as a finger in the eye to all those that brought a D600

 

[Pookeyhead]

No intention of using 'ignore' David, some of the things you say make sense and are informative

Really? I thought I had questionable abilities, hence my attitude. Make your mind up.

but you have a very unfortunate and ill-mannered attitude at times which does nothing to enhance your profile.

What profile? I don't want a profile. I'm just a voice on an internet forum. You mean like in this thread? You mean the way I cut through bull sh1t and urban myth and try to get some common sense in a thread full of hysteria where people are convinced cleaning a sensor is a highly technical and dangerous task that can ruin their camera, and therefore justifying why people charge a lot of money for doing something no more risky than changing a lens? Yeah... I do stuff like that... a lot, because someone has to. People always want to shoot the messenger though... just human nature. As I said... trying to make me feel bad about it is useless.. because I don't. I can't stop people paying extortionate amounts for what amounts to wiping a surface if they want to, but I can make them realise just what they're actually paying for, and then they can make up their own minds.

As for trolling, it's actually my thread so I suggest if anyone is the troll it's you ... feel free to use the 'ignore' button if you can't cope with someone pointing out your ill-mannered ways

Starting a thread doesn't mean you can dictate what people say in it.. you don't own it. Back-pedal all you like, but you may not have liked my "attitude" in suggesting people paying £40 for a sensor clean are being idiotic, but you actually get personal and insulting to me.. directly at me, and you're clearly doing in it either to be punitive and childish.

Why don't I ignore you? Because you amuse me.

. Nikon instead launched the D610 which smacks as a finger in the eye to all those that brought a D600

Not really... they updated it, and relaunched it. There's nothing wrong with the D600 any way. The oil problem DOES stop. Even if you are too scared to clean it yourself, Nikon will replace it. Or you could do what Gary did, and get your money back. All that's fine... it's your choice as a consumer, but a law suit?? That.... is.... pathetic.

 

[MWHCVT]

Really? I thought I had questionable abilities, hence my attitude. Make your mind up.



What profile? I don't want a profile. I'm just a voice on an internet forum. You mean like in this thread? You mean the way I cut through bull sh1t and urban myth and try to get some common sense in a thread full of hysteria where people are convinced cleaning a sensor is a highly technical and dangerous task that can ruin their camera, and therefore justifying why people charge a lot of money for doing something no more risky than changing a lens? Yeah... I do stuff like that... a lot, because someone has to. People always want to shoot the messenger though... just human nature. As I said... trying to make me feel bad about it is useless.. because I don't. I can't stop people paying extortionate amounts for what amounts to wiping a surface if they want to, but I can make them realise just what they're actually paying for, and then they can make up their own minds.



Starting a thread doesn't mean you can dictate what people say in it.. you don't own it. Back-pedal all you like, but you may not have liked my "attitude" in suggesting people paying £40 for a sensor clean are being idiotic, but you actually get personal and insulting to me.. directly at me, and you're clearly doing in it either to be punitive and childish.

Why don't I ignore you? Because you amuse me.



Not really... they updated it, and relaunched it. There's nothing wrong with the D600 any way. The oil problem DOES stop. Even if you are too scared to clean it yourself, Nikon will replace it. Or you could do what Gary did, and get your money back. All that's fine... it's your choice as a consumer, but a law suit?? That.... is.... pathetic.

Many things are pathetic in life, such as trying to get a rise out of someone because it amuses you...but there is clearly strong feelings on behalf of a reasonable number of customers that Nikon has launched a product with an inherent fault that has cost them lost photography, cost of professional cleaning what ever, and they are looking for recourse...the idea that if Nikon loose this is will affect future development detrimentally is frankly laughable...what it might have an effect on is quality control in both development and production though this is limited...where it may have a greater effect in on improved customer services and product support, the reality is...Nikon dropped the ball at least that how it appears to me

 

[gramps]

Really? I thought I had questionable abilities, hence my attitude. Make your mind up.



What profile? I don't want a profile. I'm just a voice on an internet forum. You mean like in this thread? You mean the way I cut through bull sh1t and urban myth and try to get some common sense in a thread full of hysteria where people are convinced cleaning a sensor is a highly technical and dangerous task that can ruin their camera, and therefore justifying why people charge a lot of money for doing something no more risky than changing a lens? Yeah... I do stuff like that... a lot, because someone has to. People always want to shoot the messenger though... just human nature. As I said... trying to make me feel bad about it is useless.. because I don't. I can't stop people paying extortionate amounts for what amounts to wiping a surface if they want to, but I can make them realise just what they're actually paying for, and then they can make up their own minds.



Starting a thread doesn't mean you can dictate what people say in it.. you don't own it. Back-pedal all you like, but you may not have liked my "attitude" in suggesting people paying £40 for a sensor clean are being idiotic, but you actually get personal and insulting to me.. directly at me, and you're clearly doing in it either to be punitive and childish.

Why don't I ignore you? Because you amuse me.

David, you really don't appear able to see how offensive you are to many people here ... is that "personal"?
Yes it is, because many of your comments, such as ones in this thread but also in many others are personally offensive to others, yet you seem incapable of seeing this or you choose to ignore it (unless of course you suffer from Asperger's).

 

[Spiritflier]

Edited because I decided that I really shouldn't feed the troll!

Apologies to the Mods for snarling but Pookeyhead really is a monumental pain in the backside!