Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

twist said:
Like fuji, just found af lacking in previous, the new sensor has enough pixels and the base iso improved but still 160. Battery life isnt great. Lenses aren't cheap but nice, overall the best apsc system imo.
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Would be if they went back to bayer ;)
 
snerkler said:
I keep being tempted by Fuji for some reason, and I have no idea why. I thought I liked the idea of manual controls but when I had the XT1 I just found it all a bit fiddly, and of course there was the rendering issue. But for some reason I keep wanting to try it again :facepalm:
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It comes with upgraded worms:exit:
 
gad-westy said:
Interesting that you mention the bluetooth aspect. That's not something I'd really picked up on before. Does this go a small way to appeasing those worried about 1 slot? Okay, not quite the same as 2 cards full of raw files but maybe an acceptable insurance policy. Although, you'd assume it would hammer battery life.
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No. Not even slightly.
 
I see that Delkin have released XQD cards, 64gb ones are only a tenner cheaper than Sony G series though :(
 
So I've just got back from Harrisons where they had the Z7, 24-70mm, 35mm and adapter to try out. I didn't give the camera a full test as I couldn't go outside and use it, neither did I try out tracking or burst mode, but here's my thoughts.


Ergonomics

OK lets get this out of the way first, it's the best mirrorless I've held in terms of comfort and grip, even better than my beloved EM1. Plenty of room between the grip and lens, probably even enough to be able to wear certain gloves. Button and dial placement is good on the whole, although some of it I don't like as much as their DSLRs. For example, AF modes, Drive modes and metering are accessed via menus, primarily the i button. Talking of the i button, when you press this the menu is now very Sony-esque, bringing up 2 rows of 5 or 6 functions, each assignable and each can be pressed via the touchscreen. I'm not sure if you can set up function buttons to press and the rotate the control dials to change things like AF mode etc, if you can this will feel much more Nikon and less Sony. I like the quick access to these function that I have now and I hope you can set up the Zeds to be similar.

Whilst I said the ergonomics were the best I've used on a mirrorless it's still not as comfortable as my D850. The main reason for this is my pinky finger, there's nowhere for it and so it wraps under the camera body. Not a big deal with the 24-70mm f4 or 35mm (after all I'm used to doing this with my EM1) but when I put my 24-70mm f2.8 with adapter all of a sudden it didn't feel as comfortable. Not bad, just not as good as my D850, and enough for me to notice it. I do wonder how it would feel with the 70-200mm f2.8 or even something like a 150-600mm. I know you tend to balance it holding the lens, but I do still like to have a sturdy grip on the camera and having my pinky finger hanging underneath it just doesn't feel quite as sturdy. All that being said, I think my pinky finger used to sit under the body with my D750 as well (why is my memory so bad that I can't remember for sure) and I managed OK with that ;) I wonder what it would feel like going back to the D750 now after having had the D850 for a while :thinking: I would question how comfortable the Z7 would be with a grip, I know when I put the grip on the A7Riii my pinky fouled up against the actual grip part of the battery grip so would imagine this would happen with the Z7 too.


Build quality

Felt pretty good tbh, nothing to complain about. Felt sturdy, all the buttons and dials felt good, no mushiness or anything like that, all very precise. EVF looked every bit as good as the A7RIII (ie fantastic) and the LCD was equally crisp. I didn't notice any EVF lag as I was moving the camera around, although I didn't do any specific panning tests.

The lenses are strange ones. They were light, which initially gave the impression that they aren't well built but in reality they are imo. Zoom ring on the 24-70mm was nice and smooth and precise, as was the focus ring. It's just hard not to confuse lightness with lack of quality. If you can get past that I think you'll realise that the quality is very good. However, is the 24-70mm f4 £1000 good? Not for me, but then camera/lens prices baffle me these days anyway ;) One thing that I didn't like about the 24-70mm f4 was that it 'locks away'. In order to fully collapse the lens you have to go beyond 24mm and it then locks, to the able to use the lens you have to first rotate it out of the lock position. I know there are other lenses like this and a lot of people don't mind it and get used to it, I just found it a bit odd.


Autofocus

I should first point out that this was tried in store where light wasn't great, all artificial lighting although did appear relatively bright. I first tried this with the 24-70mm f4 and AF-S felt very snappy, even going from near to far. AF-C was similarly snappy although on odd occasions there was the tiniest hint of it hunting, although very quick hunting and not like the pedestrian back and forth hunting you get with Nikon DSLR liveview. It is minor, and something I saw with the A7R3 (also tried in store with similar lighting) and something I see A LOT with my EM1 in AF-C.

Next up I tried my 24-70mm f2.8 via the adapter. AF-S was fast although not as fast as when using it on my D850. I did try it on my D850 after as I thought it might be the poor light, but on the D850 AF was INSTANT. On the Z7 is felt ever so slightly tardy, especially going from near to far, and also there was a little more hunting/hesitation in AF-C than when using the 24-70mm f4. Again, in no way horrendous and for everyday use more than fast enough (probably as fast as my EM1 or maybe a teeny tiny smidge faster, I'd have to test both side by side to know for sure), however there was enough difference between using the 24-70mm f2.8 on the Z7 compared to my D850 for me to notice it.



All in all it felt a very nice camera, and on the whole it's not a bad effort from Nikon. However, it is difficult to see past the £3500 price tag, especially when you compare the specs etc to the Sonys. Also, it's not good enough yet to make me want to move from DSLR, and it has made me question whether it will ever be. Not due to the performance as I know this will match and surpass DSLR at some point. But as long as I keep using the big heavy lenses such as the 70-200mm f2.8 and 150-600mm the DSLR just feels better to hold. For prime users and lighter zooms I think mirrorless will be a no brainer soon. I'd be interested to try the Canon EOS R out as I believe that's a touch bigger.
 
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@snerkler Glad to hear someone's had a play, I'm planning on nipping to my local WEX tomorrow for the Touch and Try... can't justify it to be honest (I can't see why I'd buy one over another A7R3 or even a D850) but nice to see Nikon has joined the party!
 
snerkler said:
So I've just got back from Harrisons where they had the Z7, 24-70mm, 35mm and adapter to try out. I didn't give the camera a full test as I couldn't go outside and use it, neither did I try out tracking or burst mode, but here's my thoughts.


Ergonomics

OK lets get this out of the way first, it's the best mirrorless I've held in terms of comfort and grip, even better than my beloved EM1. Plenty of room between the grip and lens, probably even enough to be able to wear certain gloves. Button and dial placement is good on the whole, although some of it I don't like as much as their DSLRs. For example, AF modes, Drive modes and metering are accessed via menus, primarily the i button. Talking of the i button, when you press this the menu is now very Sony-esque, bringing up 2 rows of 5 or 6 functions, each assignable and each can be pressed via the touchscreen. I'm not sure if you can set up function buttons to press and the rotate the control dials to change things like AF mode etc, if you can this will feel much more Nikon and less Sony. I like the quick access to these function that I have now and I hope you can set up the Zeds to be similar.

Whilst I said the ergonomics were the best I've used on a mirrorless it's still not as comfortable as my D850. The main reason for this is my pinky finger, there's nowhere for it and so it wraps under the camera body. Not a big deal with the 24-70mm f4 or 35mm (after all I'm used to doing this with my EM1) but when I put my 24-70mm f2.8 with adapter all of a sudden it didn't feel as comfortable. Not bad, just not as good as my D850, and enough for me to notice it. I do wonder how it would feel with the 70-200mm f2.8 or even something like a 150-600mm. I know you tend to balance it holding the lens, but I do still like to have a sturdy grip on the camera and having my pinky finger hanging underneath it just doesn't feel quite as sturdy. All that being said, I think my pinky finger used to sit under the body with my D750 as well (why is my memory so bad that I can't remember for sure) and I managed OK with that ;) I wonder what it would feel like going back to the D750 now after having had the D850 for a while :thinking: I would question how comfortable the Z7 would be with a grip, I know when I put the grip on the A7Riii my pinky fouled up against the actual grip part of the battery grip so would imagine this would happen with the Z7 too.


Build quality

Felt pretty good tbh, nothing to complain about. Felt sturdy, all the buttons and dials felt good, no mushiness or anything like that, all very precise. EVF looked every bit as good as the A7RIII (ie fantastic) and the LCD was equally crisp. I didn't notice any EVF lag as I was moving the camera around, although I didn't do any specific panning tests.

The lenses are strange ones. They were light, which initially gave the impression that they aren't well built but in reality they are imo. Zoom ring on the 24-70mm was nice and smooth and precise, as was the focus ring. It's just hard not to confuse lightness with lack of quality. If you can get past that I think you'll realise that the quality is very good. However, is the 24-70mm f4 £1000 good? Not for me, but then camera/lens prices baffle me these days anyway ;) One thing that I didn't like about the 24-70mm f4 was that it 'locks away'. In order to fully collapse the lens you have to go beyond 24mm and it then locks, to the able to use the lens you have to first rotate it out of the lock position. I know there are other lenses like this and a lot of people don't mind it and get used to it, I just found it a bit odd.


Autofocus

I should first point out that this was tried in store where light wasn't great, all artificial lighting although did appear relatively bright. I first tried this with the 24-70mm f4 and AF-S felt very snappy, even going from near to far. AF-C was similarly snappy although on odd occasions there was the tiniest hint of it hunting, although very quick hunting and not like the pedestrian back and forth hunting you get with Nikon DSLR liveview. It is minor, and something I saw with the A7R3 (also tried in store with similar lighting) and something I see A LOT with my EM1 in AF-C.

Next up I tried my 24-70mm f2.8 via the adapter. AF-S was fast although not as fast as when using it on my D850. I did try it on my D850 after as I thought it might be the poor light, but on the D850 AF was INSTANT. On the Z7 is felt ever so slightly tardy, especially going from near to far, and also there was a little more hunting/hesitation in AF-C than when using the 24-70mm f4. Again, in no way horrendous and for everyday use more than fast enough (probably as fast as my EM1 or maybe a teeny tiny smidge faster, I'd have to test both side by side to know for sure), however there was enough difference between using the 24-70mm f2.8 on the Z7 compared to my D850 for me to notice it.



All in all it felt a very nice camera, and on the whole it's not a bad effort from Nikon. However, it is difficult to see past the £3500 price tag, especially when you compare the specs etc to the Sonys. Also, it's not good enough yet to make me want to move from DSLR, and it has made me question whether it will ever be. Not due to the performance as I know this will match and surpass DSLR at some point. But as long as I keep using the big heavy lenses such as the 70-200mm f2.8 and 150-600mm the DSLR just feels better to hold. For prime users and lighter zooms I think mirrorless will be a no brainer soon. I'd be interested to try the Canon EOS R out as I believe that's a touch bigger.
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Crikey,you really dusted off the lab coat today,nice early review (y)
 
I’m not going to bother holding it, just doesn’t make me feel ooooo inside like the Sony’s do. I was actually more excited and surprised with the new Fuji XT-3 announcement than both the Nikon & Canon efforts. :)
 
Riz_Guru said:
I’m not going to bother holding it, just doesn’t make me feel ooooo inside like the Sony’s do. I was actually more excited and surprised with the new Fuji XT-3 announcement than both the Nikon & Canon efforts. :)
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More like you daren’t in case you prefer it to the Sony’s to hold but know the performance doesn’t match :facepalm:
 
jonneymendoza said:
Watch Panasonic blow canikon out of the water with there FF mirrorless
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Possibly, although early rumours are that it won’t have IBIS which would be disappointing.
 
snerkler said:
More like you daren’t in case you prefer it to the Sony’s to hold but know the performance doesn’t match :facepalm:
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I know a lot gets said about Sony’s ergonomics but I don’t find it bugs me, I just adapt but I do have small hands.
I do miss certain aspects of the Fuji system / XT-2 but ultimately I missed the high ISO ability of FF vs APS-C.
 
Well,I’m not a fan boy.
I use my Fuji more than my Nikon.

I have no like or dislike of them, but hell, it’s only a camera. No need for the histrionics.
 
Just read an article by Nikon Ambassador Jerry Ghionis which is the first one by a Nikon Ambassador not being totally positive and admitting to some flaws with the camera. To hear some of the Nikon Ambassador's impressions/experiences/reviews you would think these cameras were perfect. No camera is, and these Z's are far from it. imho

Another interesting thing in the article with regard to the one card slot, he says "That said, I have more confidence because the camera will reject an XQD card that is suspect." I have never heard that a camera can do that before. :thinking:
 
redhed17 said:
Just read an article by Nikon Ambassador Jerry Ghionis which is the first one by a Nikon Ambassador not being totally positive and admitting to some flaws with the camera. To hear some of the Nikon Ambassador's impressions/experiences/reviews you would think these cameras were perfect. No camera is, and these Z's are far from it. imho

Another interesting thing in the article with regard to the one card slot, he says "That said, I have more confidence because the camera will reject an XQD card that is suspect." I have never heard that a camera can do that before. :thinking:
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I have one old SD card that's iffy in any camera [it works but has given errors here and there] I tested it in the G80 and it tells me to remove the card right away, I guess what Nikon have is just an advancement of that for XQD
 
redhed17 said:
I agree it is no excuse for not having a 2nd card slot, but I had not heard of a camera being able to do that before.
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I'm a bit skeptical about that claim tbh ;)
 
snerkler said:
I'm a bit skeptical about that claim tbh ;)
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How difficult is to make the firmware report on the rear screen, "Memory Card is 'xyz faulty' please replace it" instead of the "ERR" on the top screen. ;)
 
redhed17 said:
I agree it is no excuse for not having a 2nd card slot, but I had not heard of a camera being able to do that before.
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Is this card checking function any different to taking a quick test picture, and if it plays back on the LCD as a recorded image, then the card is good? (At least for now.)
 
HoppyUK said:
Is this card checking function any different to taking a quick test picture, and if it plays back on the LCD as a recorded image, then the card is good? (At least for now.)
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I have no idea. :thinking: I'd never heard of the feature before the article. Are there features in the different memory cards types that some cameras can warn of imminent failure or wear and tear that maybe be able to warn of some types of failure before a camera actually fails to take a picture or video.

As I said, I don't know, but if there is then that can only be good if there are no false positives and people not using perfectly good cards.
 
chuckles said:
How difficult is to make the firmware report on the rear screen, "Memory Card is 'xyz faulty' please replace it" instead of the "ERR" on the top screen. ;)
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Well all cameras will tell you if the card's faulty, but the article says that the Zeds will reject any cards that deem that it's suspect. That suggests to me that the Zeds actually have some kind of scanning software rather than just rejecting a card that is already faulty.
 
snerkler said:
Well all cameras will tell you if the card's faulty, but the article says that the Zeds will reject any cards that deem that it's suspect. That suggests to me that the Zeds actually have some kind of scanning software rather than just rejecting a card that is already faulty.
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As you can probably guess, I never read the article :(
 
If that is so, won't the bloggers just complain about the single card slot rejecting cards that work perfectly well on their PC?
 
Erty said:
If that is so, won't the bloggers just complain about the single card slot rejecting cards that work perfectly well on their PC?
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Of course, that's what they like to do isn't it ;)
 
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