Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

[Fraser Euan White]

For many professional photographers, the 1D/D5 flagship isn't the most suitable camera for the job.

At the moment, the most suitable Nikon camera for my professional needs is the D750. The D5 is back-breakingly heavy for 12-14 hour shoots and the D850 has too many mp for me. The D750, has the perfect sensor size and is lighter than the other two. But then the D5 is perfect for some of my press photographer friends. And the landscapers I know love the D850. A sports photographer friend of mine shoots mostly D500 and D5 these days. Are they more pro than me? Should we all be shooting D5 bodies if we're pros? The D850 and D750 aren't enthusiast cameras wrapped up in hype and marketing, they are capable professional cameras.

A £3399 camera isn't targeted at professionals?! And if it isn't targeted at professionals why would it use XQD cards that can cost as much as some basic DSLRs?

There is nothing to "get over"

You say 5D is not Professional, you claim Canon don't say this is a Professional.

I prove that Canon does just that, there is nothing more to it. End of story really.

As for Nikon not targeting this as Professionals, like I said, why would they choose to not target at anyone? How would adding a feature alienate hobbyist if this is the main market they are going for?

Would any hobbyist go "Oh no, it has dual card slots, it must be for Pros, that's not for me, I'll keep my money!"

"Oh no, it has weather sealing, I am a hobbyist and I baby my camera, i don't need weather sealing, this isn't a camera for me!"

It reminds me when 5D2 came out and it shoots video and a bunch of people went "I don't want that!!! Give me a camera without video please!"

Would a hobbyist turn away from a camera because of a feature? (like below?)

All I can say is that those people were living in the past, same as those who thinks dual card slots isn't required. Dual cards is now pretty much expected and standard now, especially at this price point, much like having a good auto focus, that is expected too. It's not just at the professional level, it's also at a price point level.

There is a big difference between a professional photographer choosing the camera for his job and the manufacturer designing a camera for professional use.

The 'flagship' models are designed by the company solely for use by professionals with no consideration given to enthusiast use and I would guess in sales terms these models sold in a much larger proportion to professional photographers and 'organisations' with only a small number of sales to wealthy enthusiasts.

The 'other lines' are 'targeted' at enthusiasts with the highest volume of their sales going to that market and a tiny proportion to professionals who chose that model for their job.

@Raymond Lin - if you think marketing departments don't 'target' an audience then don't give up your day job! Any camera manufacturer can incorporate anything they want into a camera body but the price point would be stupid! They have selected what THEY feel are the most important features to incorporate to meet a budget/sales point they think enthusiasts will spend. You may not like what they have missed out but YOU are a tiny proportion of their 'target' as it is quite clearly aimed at enthusiasts, hence it is considerably cheaper than their flagship pro body.

Hopefully for ME they have made the right choices in concentrating on the EVF & a camera body that feels good to hold - the main features of the Sony that I hate!

 

[decigallen]

Not really, many non pros will have to save to buy these cameras to begin with, and they will no doubt want a lens to go with, every £100 counts. And it would certainly not be fair to say 'well, then they shouldn't be looking at these cameras' because why shouldn't they? Many 'enthusiasts' [I'm really hating all these categories, we're all bloody photographers end of the day] want the same things in a camera as the pros do. They don't see a new camera as a money making tool, they just want to enjoy all the new tech, benefit from the better low light and AF, they will make plenty good use of it all in their own right. They just may not have the spends to jump on it, and a few hundred quid might just dampen their dreams. Been there, wore the Tee, it's still around my neck

Then the decision to use XQD is all the more foolish. Most enthusiasts/amateurs I know would baulk at paying £25 for a memory card, nevermind £125.

 

[Raymond Lin]

There is a big difference between a professional photographer choosing the camera for his job and the manufacturer designing a camera for professional use.

The 'flagship' models are designed by the company solely for use by professionals with no consideration given to enthusiast use and I would guess in sales terms these models sold in a much larger proportion to professional photographers and 'organisations' with only a small number of sales to wealthy enthusiasts.

The other line are 'targeted' at enthusiasts with the highest volume of their sales going to that market and a tiny proportion to professionals who chose that model for their job.

@Raymond Lin - if you think marketing departments don't 'target' an audience then don't give up your day job! Any camera manufacturer can incorporate anything they want into a camera body but the price point would be stupid! They have selected what THEY feel are the most important features to incorporate to meet a budget/sales point they think enthusiasts will spend. You may not like what they have missed out but YOU are a tiny proportion of their 'target' as it is quite clearly aimed at enthusiasts, hence it is considerably cheaper than their flagship pro body.

Tell that to the CPS department, and my 5Ds that are registered on it.

Just accept the the 5D is both a professional camera, and marketed as one and registered as one. To think only 1 camera in their entire line up to be considered professional is weird.

If I can take any camera and use it in a professional scenario and then call that a "professional camera", like a X-Pro 2 and Canon labels the 5D as a professional camera. The only person here stating otherwise is you, base on nothing but something you dreamt up.

End of story.

5D - a Professional camera, it is built like one, professionals use it, marketed as one, CPS qualified.

But you say it's not…okay!

 

[Raymond Lin]

Then the decision to use XQD is all the more foolish. Most enthusiasts/amateurs I know would baulk at paying £25 for a memory card, nevermind £125.

A part of me is glad that I don't need to buy anymore Compact Flash….that's expensive too, SD cards is so much cheaper. When you need TB of the stuff, it adds up.

 

[redhed17]

You really need to get over this Raymond! Just accept it is a marketing ploy by Canon to get serious enthusiasts to buy the camera in the belief they are buying into a 'Pro Grade' system! 9the price point also indicates the target market is enthusiast). The flagship 1D camera is the one that is designed for professional use with enthusiasts considerations in second place.

A manufacturer saying the camera is actually for professionals is marketing ploy! Eh, OK then. They are saying that this camera is for professionals and in most cases, enthusiasts, who are normally the ones willing to pay such high prices for the quality of build and performance, but they don't really mean it. Mmm. I'm sure there are many professionals who have made very successful businesses with various 5D models, and continue to do so. I would think that there may be more professionals with 5D's than 1D's.

That is not to say that you can't have a photography business with any camera of course, but pro's tend to go for the 5D's. or Nikon D8**, D7**, because they are built to last, have the latest technology, and have shutter mechanisms rated for hundreds of thousands of actuations. Just like the flagship 1D's and D3,4,5.

Camera that Canon say go to qualifying for their Canon Professional Services:

EOS 5D
EOS 5D Mark II
EOS 5D Mark III
EOS 5D Mark IV
EOS 5DS
EOS 5DS R
EOS 60Da
EOS 6D
EOS 6D Mark II
EOS 7D
EOS 7D
EOS-1D Mark III
EOS-1D Mark IV
EOS-1D X
EOS-1D X Mark II
EOS-1Ds Mark III

Why aren't they all 1D something?

From Nikon,

Nikon announced the new Nikon D850, a powerful full-frame DSLR camera that provides professional photographers and multimedia creators with an impressive combination of resolution and high-speed performance.

that's the first line of their press release.

And for the D500:

Today, Nikon Inc. announced the D500, a DX-format DSLR with pro-level features that gives photographers nimble handling, speed and extreme processing power in a compact and lightweight body.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

Tell that to the CPS department, and my 5Ds that are registered on it.

Just accept the the 5D is both a professional camera, and marketed as one and registered as one. To think only 1 camera in their entire line up to be considered professional is weird.

If I can take any camera and use it in a professional scenario and then call that a "professional camera", like a X-Pro 2 and Canon labels the 5D as a professional camera. The only person here stating otherwise is you, base on nothing but something you dreamt up.

I think Hoppy suggested it as well (why you posted yet again the link to the Canon website) and the fact you are falling for 'Canon marketing' clearly shows you have been 'hoodwinked by it' and don't understand marketing!

Do you think Canon sell more D5MkIV's to amateurs or professionals? (If you answer that then you have your answer!)

 

[Fraser Euan White]

A manufacturer saying the camera is actually for professionals is marketing ploy! Eh, OK then. They are saying that this camera is for professionals and in most cases, enthusiasts, who are normally the ones willing to pay such high prices for the quality of build and performance, but they don't really mean it. Mmm. I'm sure there are many professionals who have made very successful businesses with various 5D models, and continue to do so. I would think that there may be more professionals with 5D's than 1D's.

That is not to say that you can't have a photography business with any camera of course, but pro's tend to go for the 5D's. or Nikon D8**, D7**, because they are built to last, have the latest technology, and have shutter mechanisms rated for hundreds of thousands of actuations. Just like the flagship 1D's and D3,4,5.

Camera that Canon say go to qualifying for their Canon Professional Services:

EOS 5D
EOS 5D Mark II
EOS 5D Mark III
EOS 5D Mark IV
EOS 5DS
EOS 5DS R
EOS 60Da
EOS 6D
EOS 6D Mark II
EOS 7D
EOS 7D
EOS-1D Mark III
EOS-1D Mark IV
EOS-1D X
EOS-1D X Mark II
EOS-1Ds Mark III

Why aren't they all 1D something?

From Nikon, that's the first line of their press release.

And for the D500:

Yes................Marketing! By saying something is 'Pro' drives sales up to amateurs. Hence some even put 'pro' in the name - not just with cameras!

 

[Raymond Lin]

I think Hoppy suggested it as well (why you posted yet again the link to the Canon website) and the fact you are falling for 'Canon marketing' clearly shows you have been 'hoodwinked by it' and don't understand marketing!

Do you think Canon sell more D5MkIV's to amateurs or professionals? (If you answer that then you have your answer!)

What are you talking about? How does sales number make it something else? If that's the case then Ronaldo is not a professional footballer because I bet you there are more people wear his shirt with his name on it than he does.

 

[Cagey75]

Then the decision to use XQD is all the more foolish. Most enthusiasts/amateurs I know would baulk at paying £25 for a memory card, nevermind £125.

I have a bunch of decent [enough for me] SD cards, all Sandisk U-3 class 10, and I end up using the same one 99% of the time. I don't have a second body atm, so the other cards just gather dust in the bag mostly. So, I personally wouldn't mind having to buy a pricier card, as i would only need the one to kick off at least. It would suck that my old cards wouldn't work though

 

[Raymond Lin]

Yes................Marketing! By saying something is 'Pro' drives sales up to amateurs. Hence some even put 'pro' in the name - not just with cameras!

I never said hobbyist can't buy professional cameras, just because a hobbyist buy it, does it automatically make that camera not professional? Clearly it does in your world!

Does a hobbyist having 1D making him or her immediately into a pro? No!

So if I can use a X-Pro 2 in a job a call that a professional camera, why isn't a 5D a professional camera? Because you say so? Because Joe Blogs bought one with his Christmas bonus at work? That all of the sudden changes the status of my camera?

And if Canon can label the 1D as a professional camera and you accept it as one, but weirdly when they label the 5D as professional, somehow that is marketing?

What kind of logic is this?

 

[Fraser Euan White]

Look at the Nikon D500 - touted to have a lot of 'carry overs' from the D5, yet the professional motorsports photographer I regularly talk to has just recently purchased a D4s and states it 'blows the socks off' his D500 in use - it is quicker at everything, focuses quicker and more accurately, files need a lot less PP'ing and is just a far better camera all round clearly designed for Pro use! (his words not mine)

Put any of these 'prosumer' cameras next to a flagship model and hold them - it is quite apparent the difference in the way the manufacturer has constructed them.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

I never said hobbyist can't buy professional cameras, just because a hobbyist buy it, does it automatically make that camera not professional? Clearly it does in your world!

Does a hobbyist having 1D making him or her immediately into a pro? No!

So if I can call a X-Pro 2 a professional camera, why isn't a 5D a professional camera? Because you say so? Because Joe Blogs bought one with his Christmas bonus at work? That all of the sudden changes the status of my camera?

And if Canon can label the 1D as a professional camera and you accept it as one, but weirdly when they label the 5D as professional, somehow that is marketing?

What kind of logic is this?

Exactly what I said Raymond! There is nothing stopping a Pro buying any camera that suits him! But it is designed to sell to enthusiasts in the main!

What makes a camera a 'pro' camera is the manufacturers target audience, not the fact whether a pro or amateur choose to use a particular model!

manufacturers will 'advertise' their top level enthusiast models as 'pro grade' as they know this will boost the sales of the product. It happens in every product line up not just cameras.

 

[Cagey75]

I don't get all hung up on 'pro' camera nonsense. Any camera can be a pro body in the right hands. The pro is the user, not the gear. It's someone who makes a living from their photography, I have always seen it that way, not because of the gear they use. I know pro photographers who use old D3s bodies with some D300's as back ups. Most of them will tell you it's the lenses matter most, not the cameras.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Look at the Nikon D500 - touted to have a lot of 'carry overs' from the D5, yet the professional motorsports photographer I regularly talk to has just recently purchased a D4s and states it 'blows the socks off' his D500 in use - it is quicker at everything, focuses quicker and more accurately, files need a lot less PP'ing and is just a far better camera all round clearly designed for Pro use! (his words not mine)

Put any of these 'prosumer' cameras next to a flagship model and hold them - it is quite apparent the difference in the way the manufacturer has constructed them.

Shock horror a Flagship camera is faster than a not flagship camera.

Nobody is debating which one is a flagship camera here but we are talking about what is a professional camera. Which I say any of them can be (and clearly the 5D is one), but you somehow only count the flagship and nothing else!

 

[Fraser Euan White]

Shock horror a Flagship camera is faster than a not flagship camera.

Nobody is debating which one is a flagship camera here but we are talking about what is a professional camera. Which I say any of them can be (and clearly the 5D is one), but you somehow only count the flagship and nothing else!

No, the argument was about the Nikon Z series, you said there shouldn't be a 'target audience' and I disagreed - for enthusiasts (for which this camera is clearly designed) dual card slots in Nikon's opinion isn't as important to incorporate at a given price point as other features they have chosen.

If they aimed the camera at the Pro market then they may have the same opinion as you and incorporate dual card slots higher on 'the must have list' to stop the pro wedding photographer committing 'harry carry' if a memory card gets corrupted.

Either way it's a pointless discussion as it is 'what it is' - I love what I have seen so far and I am looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.

 

[Raymond Lin]

No, the argument was about the Nikon Z series, you said there shouldn't be a 'target audience' and I disagreed - for enthusiasts (for which this camera is clearly designed) dual card slots in Nikon's opinion isn't as important to incorporate at a given price point as other features they have chosen.

If they aimed the camera at the Pro market then they may have the same opinion as you and incorporate dual card slots to stop the pro wedding photographer committing 'harry carry' if a memory card gets corrupted.

The D850 is at the same price point as the Z7. And the D750 for the Z6, that price point is where a lot of professional resides so they would expect some features as their DSLR counterparts which they have become accustomed to.

I am not alone on this to think this is a professional grade camera, and can be used in a professional environment, or as the potential to be really strong in it, but missing some critical features which a particular segment, professionals require. Adding that card slot in won’t alienate the other hobbyist.

You say they should cater to their target audience, why would their target audience specifically ask for single card slots? When has ever in any thread people complaint their camera has back up slots?

 

[redhed17]

Look at the Nikon D500 - touted to have a lot of 'carry overs' from the D5, yet the professional motorsports photographer I regularly talk to has just recently purchased a D4s and states it 'blows the socks off' his D500 in use - it is quicker at everything, focuses quicker and more accurately, files need a lot less PP'ing and is just a far better camera all round clearly designed for Pro use! (his words not mine)

Put any of these 'prosumer' cameras next to a flagship model and hold them - it is quite apparent the difference in the way the manufacturer has constructed them.

And the D500 will give a D3 a run for its money and blow away a D2X, are they no longer professional either. I'll go with what the manufacturer calls them, and when I see a number of pro's using them.

I wonder how many pro wedding, portrait and landscape photographers use 5D*'s or 1D*'s. I've never seen any, in real life or on the internet use any 1D for those subjects.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

The D850 is at the same price point as the Z7. And the D750 for the Z6, that price point is where a lot of professional resides so they would expect some features as their DSLR counterparts which they have become accustomed to.

I am not alone on this to think this is a professional grade camera, and can be used in a professional environment, or as the potential to be really strong in it, but missing some critical features which a particular segment, professionals require. Adding that card slot in won’t alienate the other hobbyist.

You say they should cater to their target audience, why would their target audience specifically ask for single card slots? When has ever in any thread people complaint their camera has back up slots?

Likewise there are lots there maybe as many who don't feel dual card slots is the most important thing in the world either - especially amateurs who are the biggest market for this camera; only time will tell if the demise of Nikon was down to not having the dual card slot.

Out of interest - How did you do wedding photography when this wasn't available?

............anyway, head is hurting from banging against the brick wall

 

[Fraser Euan White]

And the D500 will give a D3 a run for its money and blow away a D2X, are they no longer professional either. I'll go with what the manufacturer calls them, and when I see a number of pro's using them.

I wonder how many pro wedding, portrait and landscape photographers use 5D*'s or 1D*'s. I've never seen any, in real life or on the internet use any 1D for those subjects.

How daft! No, a D3 or D2x is considerably cheaper than a D500 is to buy these days but 11 & 13 years ago they were 'cutting edge' I wouldn't expect an 'organisation' to go and purchase some D2x's of eBay for it's pro togs to use in 2018.

If you really don't consider that a manufacturer has a 'target audience' when designing a product then you are delusional IMO and quite clearly in the products you mention the highest sales volume will be to amateurs, the fact someone may make a living from them is not the major consideration of the design/spec sheet.

The target audience for the flagship models is clearly professional photojournalism/sports - surely you can see that?

...........does a camera phone become a professional grade camera because a woman sold a picture of the Royal Couple using one to the press?

 

[Cagey75]

Won't somebody think of the vloggers!?? Are they not the most important people when it comes to cameras these days? No flippy flappy screen, no dual AF for video, no eye detect AF, no 8K, no insta beautifying filter, no insta jump-cut feature, no in built teal and orange LUT, No Casey Neistat shades, no free gimbal, does it even auto upload to IG?

 

[HoppyUK]

The reaction of professional wedding photographers to the single card slot should tell us something - Nikon is not too bothered about upsetting them.

So why did they do it? Because they had to make some difficult choices, including the impact on cost making it uncompetitive, the increased size creating packaging problems, and if my hunch is right, Sony twisting their arm to use XQD in return for a favourable deal on sensors. Nikon is used to upsetting professionals on the XQD front, but it's obviously a risk they're prepared to take.

Of course Nikon would love professionals to buy their new cameras, but is it essential to success? No. Likewise, if we listen to all the vloggers carping about the lack of a flippy selfie screen (as Cagey points out) the cameras are clearly useless. Some professionals need to get back in line, they're not at the front of the queue.

 

[Cagey75]

I may take the pee, but it's true, vloggers are now the ones most camera makers are listening to first, it's a huge market. I'm really surprised Nikon didn't go for the full articulated screen, it can't be any more expensive to implement than the older tilt style? In fact we know this as cheap dslr like the Canon SL2 have this feature. And with Canon pretty much leading the way for video AF, it's also very surprising that Nikon are offering nothing close to Canon's dual AF system, they could have well trumped them with dual AF for 4K

 

[simonbarker]

No, these new cameras are not targeted at professionals. Neither are the Sony A7-series. That doesn't stop professionals using them of course, but Nikon's success will not stand or fall by what a few wedding photographers think - they're a very small sector of the total market (even if we could be forgiven for thinking otherwise from the vocal minority on here)

Let's not argue over the meaning of professional, the point being raised as I understood it was the omission of an extra card slot means unlike the D850 it's not being aimed at 'pros' (or whatever you want to call them) but as it has roughly comparable specs and the same cost it's hard to think otherwise. A pro version doesn't make much sense, there's nowhere to go on the price at 3.4k unless it's a D5 replacement and Nikon wouldn't want to burn anyone who goes for the Z7.

My point being simply, it's probably a waste of time to expect a Z7+ anytime soon, accept it for what it is.

On a separate note, I know it's not a big issue but do these Nikon's also suffer from the striping issue we see on other mirrorless systems?

 

[HoppyUK]

I may take the pee, but it's true, vloggers are now the ones most camera makers are listening to first, it's a huge market. I'm really surprised Nikon didn't go for the full articulated screen, it can't be any more expensive to implement than the older tilt style? In fact we know this as cheap dslr like the Canon SL2 have this feature. And with Canon pretty much leading the way for video AF, it's also very surprising that Nikon are offering nothing close to Canon's dual AF system, they could have well trumped them with dual AF for 4K

It's all a trade-off. A simple up-down tilting screen is good enough for most users, plus it's easier to implement, cheaper, less bulky, and - the key point I think - much more robust.

And while we're all busy bickering about the details, sensor tech is really at the heart of mirrorless, and it's full future potential with brilliant on-sensor AF for both video and stills and ultimately no mechanical shutter. Nikon seems firmly tied to Sony on that, at least for now, but Canon make their own sensors (very successfully sharing tech and costs throughout the range) and while Sony is getting all the plaudits on dynamic range and ISO-invariance etc etc, Canon has some landmark tech and a pile of interesting patents going back some years now. One day they'll come to fruition. IMHO Canon is most likely to drop an A-bomb into the mirrorless sector and leap-frog into the next generation (not sure they'll do it at the first FF attempt tho ).

 

[Bollygum]

Wow. you guys have certainly latched onto something really important here - is camera-x targeted at professionals or not? I tend towards the Raymond argument - if the manufacturer claims it is, then lets leave it at that.

 

[Cagey75]

It's all a trade-off. A simple up-down tilting screen is good enough for most users, plus it's easier to implement, cheaper, less bulky, and - the key point I think - much more robust.

And while we're all busy bickering about the details, sensor tech is really at the heart of mirrorless, and it's full future potential with brilliant on-sensor AF for both video and stills and ultimately no mechanical shutter. Nikon seems firmly tied to Sony on that, at least for now, but Canon make their own sensors (very successfully sharing tech and costs throughout the range) and while Sony is getting all the plaudits on dynamic range and ISO-invariance etc etc, Canon has some landmark tech and a pile of interesting patents going back some years now. One day they'll come to fruition. IMHO Canon is most likely to drop an A-bomb into the mirrorless sector and leap-frog into the next generation (not sure they'll do it at the first FF attempt tho ).

Sensor still seems to be King. otherwise it'd be crazy to opt for this over even the Panasonic G9. That camera is a beast in more ways than this one, bar the sensor.

It has much better IBIS [6.5 stops] and you have full use of it's 5-axis with any lens adapted to the camera, it has the fully articulated screen, looks to be better built, has face and eye detect for video and stills, dual UH-S II card slots, an excellent EVF - one of the best on the market currently, dual IS when combined with many Panasonic lenses further improving on the already insane IBIS, access to the full range of micro four thirds lenses from Panasonic and Olympus with some nice Sigma options in the mix, the ability to use the LCD to shift focus points by touch with your eye to the evf, excellent touch screen interface with zero lag [a couple of the preview videos I've seen of the Z bodies showed some awful lag using the touch screen for AF - of course this can be sorted with fw updates, and they were pre-prod models] a host of snazzy modes built in like post focus, 6K photo mode, High res 40 & 80mp photo modes etc ...

As well as having the things that are being hailed on the Nikon, like the top LCD display, 2 front Fn buttons by the grip, the joystick control, solid weather sealing etc ... The only reason to opt for the Z cameras over it are if you have a bunch of Nikon glass already and don't mind using the new adapter, and/or you really need the bigger sensor. People are falling over themselves for this new Nikon, mostly because it's Nikon.

When the first images were 'leaked' for the Z bodies, my first thought was 'that looks much like a G9'. I still think it does, more so than a Sony tbh

 

[ukaskew]

Some professionals need to get back in line, they're not at the front of the queue.

I'd argue that a professional buying a 'Gen 1 Mk1' camera is pretty brave anyway, even more so if you're an early adopter. Nikon will use the hundreds of thousands of hours of 'testing' by a largely amateur user base to tweak firmware and inform the design of the inevitable follow up models. Look at the Sony a7r vs a7rII. Aside from looking similar they are basically unrecognisable in feature set and performance, and that's over a relatively short time frame.

My guess is that ideally they would've sat on this tech for an awful lot longer if they could have, but Sony and the general market trend has really forced their hand. Historically Nikon (and more so Canon) have been incredibly careful, sometimes darn mean spirited, in going out of their way not to cannibalize their own sales. But...

1) existing mirrorless manufacturers have somewhat successfully broken that trend in a fairly agressive way with the likes of firmware updates and generous feature sets in lesser models. Intentionally hobbling firmware to differentiate and justify increasingly minor differences in the range has been a mainstay in DSLR sales tactics, the arms race in mirrorless has blown that out of the water to the massive benefit of the consumer.

2) suddenly they (Nikon) have a system directly competing with their own established line up, and are probably incredibly cautious in how that will play against their bottom line, after all it goes against their entire strategy to this point. I'd imagine Nikon accountants would want a fairly steady transfer until they get a feel for how this new market sits for them. A wholesale switch by 50% of their pro users will have a huge cost implication in terms of maintaining two systems at the NPS level.

 

[Phil V]

but it's true, vloggers are now the ones most camera makers are listening to first, it's a tiny but hugely influential market.

FTFY

 

[gramps]

Interesting. Does it change on press and then change back if you press again, or do you have to press and hold?

I use press and hold.

 

[JJ!]

What classes as a pro photographer? Someone who does it for a living? Or someone who is well reviewed and known about in the world?

I really have no idea!

 

[addicknchips]

What classes as a pro photographer? Someone who does it for a living? Or someone who is well reviewed and known about in the world?

I really have no idea!

That’s a whole new thread

 

[twist]

..........or the user behind the camera isn't capable enough in using it?

Are you talking about yourself?

 

[JJ!]

That’s a whole new thread

Haha probably be a heated one too!!

Anyway, back to Nikon lol

I’m not always sure about Fro, and as he is a Nikon shooter I wasn’t sure what to expect, but his preview seems to be pretty good to be honest and makes some positive points for both the Z and the A7. Actually probably more positive points on the Sony!

View: https://youtu.be/X2kcBclF40M

 

[jonneymendoza]

I have owned Sonys, used Sonys and sampled quite a lot of RAW files which give me a better basis than a single studio shot, but granted I haven’t done that

The trouble is we don’t get the luxury of owning every camera or lens so I tend to view A LOT of images, shoot for myself if I can and then try to make a rounded judgement on that. Same goes for lenses that I’m interested in. It’s far from foolproof but it’s the best I can do

Anyway, you’ve owned enough D750’s to know you don’t get Percy pig tones

Twist speaks the truth. He would not have bothered with the 3rd gen Sony had it suck for colour science.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Haha that's a completely meaningless marketing label designed to flatter the gullible.

If you look at the way the word 'pro' this and 'pro' that is added to any number of rubbish products, you could make a very good case for it meaning exactly the opposite.

So I guess all the Canon L lenses isn't pro too? Sorry but I believe what canon says then you

 

[jonneymendoza]

When you are spending £2k, £3.3k…..for a hobby, £200 is not an obstacle. One clearly has a large disposable income if this is the camera you are looking to buy.

Also the d750 has dual card slots and that can be bought for a fiver these days

 

[jonneymendoza]

A manufacturer saying the camera is actually for professionals is marketing ploy! Eh, OK then. They are saying that this camera is for professionals and in most cases, enthusiasts, who are normally the ones willing to pay such high prices for the quality of build and performance, but they don't really mean it. Mmm. I'm sure there are many professionals who have made very successful businesses with various 5D models, and continue to do so. I would think that there may be more professionals with 5D's than 1D's.

That is not to say that you can't have a photography business with any camera of course, but pro's tend to go for the 5D's. or Nikon D8**, D7**, because they are built to last, have the latest technology, and have shutter mechanisms rated for hundreds of thousands of actuations. Just like the flagship 1D's and D3,4,5.

Camera that Canon say go to qualifying for their Canon Professional Services:

EOS 5D
EOS 5D Mark II
EOS 5D Mark III
EOS 5D Mark IV
EOS 5DS
EOS 5DS R
EOS 60Da
EOS 6D
EOS 6D Mark II
EOS 7D
EOS 7D
EOS-1D Mark III
EOS-1D Mark IV
EOS-1D X
EOS-1D X Mark II
EOS-1Ds Mark III

Why aren't they all 1D something?

From Nikon, that's the first line of their press release.

And for the D500:

As they saying goes.

Game set match. End of discussion about this nonsense that 5d is not pro camera lol

 

[StewartR]

it's interesting to hear people talk of being locked into a camera system. I just did our costings had we chosen to go z6 instead of switching to sony.

£2199 x4 = £8796
24x 64gb XQD cards @ £155 each (amazon) = £3720
12 Batteries at £70 (to cover 12-14 hours) = £840

So £13,356 to go mirrorless with nikon for me. Switching my entire system to Sony was around the same but I recouped more by selling lenses and had no card outlay.

Crikey, that's a lot of cards. Do you mind me asking what you're doing with them? I'm just curious. I mean, you're budgeting on 6 cards for each of 4 cameras. If you're shooting RAW and JPEG (worst case), each image on a 24 MP camera is going to take up to, say, 40 MB? So you'd be getting around 1600 images per card, and you're budgeting for something like 9600 images on each of 4 cards, nearly 40,000 images total? (Before you do any downloading/backing up?)

 

[StewartR]

We might be seeing a new breed of lenses that is MUCH bigger than we've ever seen in DSLR. Especially if they take the no compromised approach like Sigma did with the Art series, alas 105/1.4. This new mount will open up the possibility to some hefty lenses.

That would be so ironic, given the widely perceived benefit of mirrorless cameras that they (and their lenses) can be smaller and lighter than the DSLR equivalent.

 

[ukaskew]

That would be so ironic, given the widely perceived benefit of mirrorless cameras that they (and their lenses) can be smaller and lighter than the DSLR equivalent.

And hopefully we can move away from that as soon as possible, it was a great USP for Olympus and Panasonic but I think we're way past that now. The list of benefits mirrorless brings are substantial enough now that I want manufacturers to be confident enough to make big bodies that will better handle big glass etc.