Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

jonneymendoza said:
Af tracking and speed
Click to expand...
Lenses don't do the tracking and speed is a combination of camera processing and lens motor (which are likley to be configurable by firmware as in the more recent Canon top end offerings)
 
Riz_Guru said:
I see zero benefit to Nikon if they allowed their current lenses to operate like their native mirrorless offerings via a adaptor.
It’ll be financial silly.
Click to expand...
I don't think necessarily people are expecting identical performance, but "more than good enough in most situation" performance. Come on for the last year or two people have been saying the lack of long lenses from Sony is irrelevant because you just use adapted lenses ... now all of a sudden people are saying adapted performance isn't good enough. Which is it?

Arguably it would be silly for Nikon to NOT have good performance from existing lenses. If people's existing lenses don't perform well you are loosing the big incentive for people to stick with Nikon and not jump ship to Sony or Canon.

You may not agree with him, but Thom Hogan wrote an opinion piece about why the only sensible decision Nikon can make, to retain or grow what market share they have, is to stick with the F-mount despite the possible compromises. (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-mirrorless-prisoners.html)
 
Eloise said:
I don't think necessarily people are expecting identical performance, but "more than good enough in most situation" performance. Come on for the last year or two people have been saying the lack of long lenses from Sony is irrelevant because you just use adapted lenses ... now all of a sudden people are saying adapted performance isn't good enough. Which is it?

Arguably it would be silly for Nikon to NOT have good performance from existing lenses. If people's existing lenses don't perform well you are loosing the big incentive for people to stick with Nikon and not jump ship to Sony or Canon.

You may not agree with him, but Thom Hogan wrote an opinion piece about why the only sensible decision Nikon can make, to retain or grow what market share they have, is to stick with the F-mount despite the possible compromises. (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-mirrorless-prisoners.html)
Click to expand...

If they stick with F-mount and made a high end mirrorless body it would be great but then what would they make their money from, just bodies alone.
 
Eloise said:
I don't think necessarily people are expecting identical performance, but "more than good enough in most situation" performance. Come on for the last year or two people have been saying the lack of long lenses from Sony is irrelevant because you just use adapted lenses ... now all of a sudden people are saying adapted performance isn't good enough. Which is it?

Arguably it would be silly for Nikon to NOT have good performance from existing lenses. If people's existing lenses don't perform well you are loosing the big incentive for people to stick with Nikon and not jump ship to Sony or Canon.

You may not agree with him, but Thom Hogan wrote an opinion piece about why the only sensible decision Nikon can make, to retain or grow what market share they have, is to stick with the F-mount despite the possible compromises. (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-mirrorless-prisoners.html)
Click to expand...
Have a read on the Sony thread to see no such person saying adapter lenses is good enough bar me lol
 
Riz_Guru said:
If they stick with F-mount and made a high end mirrorless body it would be great but then what would they make their money from, just bodies alone.
Click to expand...
Because they will still sell the 70-200 MkIV, the new 24-75 MkIII and new 14-30mm f/2.8 trinity, the new 50mm f/1.4e and 50mm f/1.8 and all the new lenses as they come out ... and will sell them to both new body owners as well as all those people still buying and owning dSLR. What they won't do is give away sales to Sony by not having a couple of options at 50(ish)mm, a couple of 85mm options, a range from 20, through 24 and 35mm primes, not having the 100-400mm, a native 300mm f/2.8 and not having all the other lenses in native design.

The point is you loose more sales (especially long term) by changing lens mount than you gain by selling a few extra lenses.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Nikon & Canon will handicap them in some way or another to drive the sales of their newer and more profitable lenses.
Click to expand...

Brazo said:
That’s exactly what Sony did at launch but adapted lenses have issues of their own so perhaps only an awkward temporary solution until they can start pumping out lenses
Click to expand...

Brazo said:
You can fit any current Nikon lens onto a Sony A7 series camera via adaptor. But fact is you wouldn’t want to if you wanted optimum performance.
Click to expand...

But the Canon M adaptor on the latest M cameras works faultlessly with loads of EOS mount lenses, there are a few exceptions but they’re due to older lens firmware not knowing about the camera, everything I’ve tried works perfectly.
 
Eloise said:
Because they will still sell the 70-200 MkIV, the new 24-75 MkIII and new 14-30mm f/2.8 trinity, the new 50mm f/1.4e and 50mm f/1.8 and all the new lenses as they come out ... and will sell them to both new body owners as well as all those people still buying and owning dSLR. What they won't do is give away sales to Sony by not having a couple of options at 50(ish)mm, a couple of 85mm options, a range from 20, through 24 and 35mm primes, not having the 100-400mm, a native 300mm f/2.8 and not having all the other lenses in native design.

The point is you loose more sales (especially long term) by changing lens mount than you gain by selling a few extra lenses.
Click to expand...
Not so sure but that last part. Canon did it and succeeded, Sony done and seems to do well. Nikon now has a myriad of different lens designations where some current lenses don't work with current bodies.
 
soeren said:
Not so sure but that last part. Canon did it and succeeded, Sony done and seems to do well. Nikon now has a myriad of different lens designations where some current lenses don't work with current bodies.
Click to expand...
I’m not particularly disagreeing ... all this is speculation of course however I would reply with two observations...
Canon did it, but at the time there was a lot of negative feeling as a result which did pay off because they demonstrated the superiority of their AF system vs Nikon.
Sony did it, but had less of a legacy and less to loose if it went wrong.
 
Mirrorless a fad for the young but should be useful for street photography. Using a FUJI mirrorless at the moment and it just does not allow you to feel 'in control' of taking the images probably as is EVF so am not directly connected. FUJI will be sold soon.
 
TheSeeingEye said:
Mirrorless a fad for the young but should be useful for street photography. Using a FUJI mirrorless at the moment and it just does not allow you to feel 'in control' of taking the images probably as is EVF so am not directly connected. FUJI will be sold soon.
Click to expand...
Mirrorless is the future whether you like it or not
 
Maybe it is the future, but currently it’s not for everyone. If this new Nikon handles like a DSLR which is what a lot of Nikon users would want then it may well be 2019 top seller!
 
Phil V said:
But the Canon M adaptor on the latest M cameras works faultlessly with loads of EOS mount lenses, there are a few exceptions but they’re due to older lens firmware not knowing about the camera, everything I’ve tried works perfectly.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The new full-frame Canikon mirrorless cameras will work 100% with existing lenses via an adapter - just as they do now with the Canon EF-M adapter. That's the only scenario which allows them to benefit from the shorter back-focus of mirrorless cameras, while capitalising on their huge lens legacies. Anything different would be bonkers and won't happen.

Whether or not the new cameras themselves have a different mount doesn't really matter as nobody, neither manufacturers nor consumers, has any existing investment there either way. However, Nikon certainly needs a new mount with all the camera/lens communication now required, and I'd hazard a guess that both Canon and Nikon will use this opportunity to make things as difficult as possible for third-party lens manufacturers.

Then Canikon will roll out a whole new range of custom-designed mirrorless lenses. Some of them, notably wide-angles, may offer better optical performance, some may benefit from improved AF and video performance, but the differences will mostly not be great. However, one way or another they will make sure that we all want them even if we don't need them. Prices will fall in the DSLR market, and we'll be awash with used bargains :D

ps Sony will be removed from #1 in the full-frame mirrorless market to #3 and normal service will be resumed ;)
 
Last edited:
JJ! said:
Maybe it is the future, but currently it’s not for everyone. If this new Nikon handles like a DSLR which is what a lot of Nikon users would want then it may well be 2019 top seller!
Click to expand...
DSLR wasn't for everyone when that launched
 
Riz_Guru said:
If they stick with F-mount and made a high end mirrorless body it would be great but then what would they make their money from, just bodies alone
Click to expand...
Same as now but with a user base who have renewed interest.

If they needed to sell a whole raft of lenses to justify a new camera, they’d have been struggling forever. :( they managed to go digital and even change image size without justifying a complete change of lens system.

Besides which, physics gets a word in, and a mirrorless body will naturally have a shorter register than a DSLR, so whilst a lens adaptor will do a job, there’ll still be a reason to design new lenses designed specifically (I’d expect them not to bother with the larger tele’s as it makes less sense)

Life’s far simpler if we stick to the facts rather than just making up s*** to support a conspiracy theory. ;)
 
Phil V said:
But the Canon M adaptor on the latest M cameras works faultlessly with loads of EOS mount lenses, there are a few exceptions but they’re due to older lens firmware not knowing about the camera, everything I’ve tried works perfectly.
Click to expand...

Your forgetting some negative aspects though, having an adapter adds more weight and length to the existing lenses, not to mention cost of the adaptor. It’s not really a long-term solution otherwise Canon would have integrated the EF mount in the body instead of inventing a new M mount.

Why do you need a Canon M adaptor if you can buy the native M lenses? Unless Canon haven’t made native equivalents ;)

Also the Canon M system is not a rival system in Canon’s lineup.

I’d be very surprised if Canon doesn’t improve their lenses with their new mirrorless mount and restrict the adapted lenses via adaptors.
 
Last edited:
Riz_Guru said:
Your forgetting some negative aspects though, having an adapter adds more weight and length to the existing lenses, not to mention cost of the adaptor. It’s not really a long-term solution ...
Click to expand...

It’s not along term solution for shorter lenses, but it’s workable, and it’s almost certainly the long term solution for longer fast lenses.

I believe Mirrorless is the future, but Canon won’t be building any white mirrorless lenses in the next ten years,

Riz_Guru said:
Canon would have integrated the EF mount in the body instead of inventing a new M mount.
Why do you need a Canon M adaptor if you can buy the native M lenses? Unless Canon haven’t made native equivalents ;)
Click to expand...

I’m not sure you understand the mechanics of this. The adaptor just moves the lens to the correct distance from the sensor. Adding that to the camera, increases the size of the camera. It doesn’t radically alter the functionality.

We need the M adaptor currently because Canon have managed to produce several enthusiast level cameras and only one suitable bloody M mount lens.:(

Whilst a couple of the zooms are optically ‘OK’ they’re slow and OK isn’t good enough when I already have a bag full of ‘excellent’ lenses.

Of course we could surmise that Canon have decided to skip the APSC short throw lenses and just design FF mirrorless lenses instead. Or it could be that we haven’t got a clue, or that they haven’t (I doubt it’s the latter)
 
Riz_Guru said:
Your forgetting some negative aspects though, having an adapter adds more weight and length to the existing lenses, not to mention cost of the adaptor. It’s not really a long-term solution otherwise Canon would have integrated the EF mount in the body instead of inventing a new M mount.
Click to expand...

It's an interim solution as it's to help people transition, not the end goal and I don't think those downsides matter for someone who wants to retain their current glass as you have the option of getting native lenses if the weight/size of the adapter bothers you. I assume wide angles having soft corners will be a universal issue for any adapters though.

Riz_Guru said:
Why do you need a Canon M adaptor if you can buy the native M lenses? Unless Canon haven’t made native equivalents ;)
Click to expand...

Because you already have a lot invested in old glass, if their platform offers the same level of performance people currently get then the improvements from a native lens have to be pretty tangible to justify the cost of replacement, doing this right allows Canon to retain the advantage of their established user base, their huge array of lenses (along with second hand market) and have a nice upgrade path to make more money on new lenses.
 
Guess we’ll have to wait and see, I stand by my comment that they will restrict how their current lenses work on their mirrorless bodies via an adaptor.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Guess we’ll have to wait and see, I stand by my comment that they will restrict how their current lenses work on their mirrorless bodies via an adaptor.
Click to expand...
Even in light of the fact that they (Canon) haven’t?

How bizarre
 
Riz_Guru said:
Guess we’ll have to wait and see, I stand by my comment that they will restrict how their current lenses work on their mirrorless bodies via an adaptor.
Click to expand...

Their current lenses works PERFECTLY with an adaptor, this is because all 3 elements, Lens, adaptor and body are made by the same company. There is no reverse engineering required. It is not the same as putting a Canon lens on a Sony body, there is no incentive for Sony to make it easy for a Canon lens to work, in fact they want to make it as difficult as possible.

A complete opposite happens with a Canon lens on a Canon Body via a Canon Adaptor…i mean why would they make hard work for themselves?
 
Riz_Guru said:
We are talking about Nikon’s and Canon’s new FF mirrorless system here. :)
Click to expand...
And if your post was regarding both, you’re already half wrong! As Canon put no restriction on their adaptor.

So that seems such a strange assertion.

It’s another of those half baked interweb conspiracy nonsense posts.

Let’s just accept a grown up view of the world.

Camera makers don’t ‘purposefully cripple’ cameras, they build products specific to a segmented marketplace that they’ve spent millions researching

Mirrorless camera sales don’t ‘cannibalise’ DSLR sales, they’re just another market to be understood, catered for and ultimately exploited.

Physics dictates that you can’t just fit a DSLR lens half an inch closer to the sensor, it won’t focus. It’s not an excuse to sell more lenses or to make money selling to people who’ve already bought, it’s just simple maths
 
Raymond Lin said:
Their current lenses works PERFECTLY with an adaptor, this is because all 3 elements, Lens, adaptor and body are made by the same company. There is no reverse engineering required. It is not the same as putting a Canon lens on a Sony body, there is no incentive for Sony to make it easy for a Canon lens to work, in fact they want to make it as difficult as possible.

A complete opposite happens with a Canon lens on a Canon Body via a Canon Adaptor…i mean why would they make hard work for themselves?
Click to expand...
Did you know that Sony also have its own adapter for A mount?
 
Phil V said:
You’re missing the point. Canon already produce a mirrorless with an adaptor that works perfectly. We don’t need an announcement, they’ve done it.
Click to expand...

If the EOS-M works perfectly as you put, why are Canon bothering with a big shift to FF mirrorless, like you said you don’t need an announcement so I guess your happy with the EOS-M but the mass majority including Canon themselves have indicated FF mirrorless is next on the agenda.

Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless is on the way :)

Let’s get this thread back on topic as it’s about the Nikon FF mirrorless system and the speculation surrounding it.
 
Riz_Guru said:
If the EOS-M works perfectly as you put, why are Canon bothering with a big shift to FF mirrorless, like you said you don’t need an announcement so I guess your happy with the EOS-M but the mass majority including Canon themselves have indicated FF mirrorless is next on the agenda.

Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless is on the way :)

Let’s get this thread back on topic as it’s about the Nikon FF mirrorless system and the speculation surrounding it.
Click to expand...
I think we should rename this thread canikon mirrorless really
 
simonbarker said:
It's an interim solution as it's to help people transition, not the end goal and I don't think those downsides matter for someone who wants to retain their current glass as you have the option of getting native lenses if the weight/size of the adapter bothers you. I assume wide angles having soft corners will be a universal issue for any adapters though. <snip>
Click to expand...

Why soft corners with adapters? There's no glass in them, just a tube to put the lens register back to the same distance as on a DSLR. The lens will then perform exactly the same.

Riz_Guru said:
Guess we’ll have to wait and see, I stand by my comment that they will restrict how their current lenses work on their mirrorless bodies via an adaptor.
Click to expand...

Canikon will not deliberately restrict current lenses in any way, they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. But new, custom-designed mirrorless lenses with sleek new styling and some small performance advantages will be very desirable and we'll all switch to them over time - just as soon as they can make them available and we can afford to buy them. Looks like a nice orderly transition to me, that'll keep the tills ringing for years.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Does it work perfectly on the telephoto primes?
Click to expand...
I have nothing longer than the 135 and that works perfectly.

AFAIK there’s some IS lenses of a certain vintage that are unhappy, but if there was going to be a design ‘flaw’ on purpose to make people buy new lenses, it’d make sense to offer lenses for people to buy.

The thing about conspiracy theories is it helps if there’s a reason to hang the conspiracy on. Canon would be bloody stupid to disable their own lenses on purpose, the only way it makes sense is to drive the sales of new lenses, but they don’t exist.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Let’s get this thread back on topic as it’s about the Nikon FF mirrorless system and the speculation surrounding it.
Click to expand...
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Your claim was that Nikon (and by extension Canon) can’t produce a decent adaptor for using F (and EF) lenses on a Mirrorless body. Well Canon have proved they CAN produce such an adaptor as they have the adaptor for the EF lenses on the M cameras, yes that it APS-C but the concept is identical. Arguably Nikon did the same for using AF-S F mount lenses on the Nikon 1 too thought perhaps not quite as successful.
 
Riz_Guru said:
If the EOS-M works perfectly as you put, why are Canon bothering with a big shift to FF mirrorless, like you said you don’t need an announcement so I guess your happy with the EOS-M but the mass majority including Canon themselves have indicated FF mirrorless is next on the agenda.

Nikon and Canon FF mirrorless is on the way :)

Let’s get this thread back on topic as it’s about the Nikon FF mirrorless system and the speculation surrounding it.
Click to expand...
It’s pointless deflecting once you’re wrong.

Of course Canon are going to produce FF mirrorless, but that’s not because there’s fundamentally something wrong with their APSC mirrorless offerings, any more than Sony’s was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top