Nikon goes mirrorless

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The cheaper pen is a LOT cheaper than the new Nikon and look how much smaller it is despite having a much larger sensor. Also far more user friendly design
 
I must say, I'm rather disappointed with this new product line :|.

When first I heard the rumours about Nikon launching a mirrorless camera, I had high hopes that it might be something more akin to the Fuji x100 (a photographer's camera, with dedicated manual controls, an optical VF, a bigger sensor and the inherent ability to accept 'F' mount lenses). That would have been a dream come true for me and fits in better with the Nikon brand as I see it. Since Nikon's heritage is all about making professional quality (whatever that means) photographic tools, it pains me when I see them diluting their brand by making mediocre kit. Yes, I do know how snobby that makes me sound :D.

From the reviews that I've read, Nikon Coolpix compacts seem to lag behind Canon and Panasonic in terms of performance and usability, so I wonder a little at their decision to go toe to toe with Olympus and Panasonic in this new market. If the V1 (didn't they steal that model name from an early Canon Ixus model :thinking:?) is as mediocre as the Coolpix range, then Nikon run the risk of turning away those who later move up into the DSLR market, IMO :shrug:.

Time will tell, of course ;).
 
well i guess im right in the firing line for one of these as i will be shortly looking for an upgrade from my Panny LX-3, which is a lovely camera just limiting on the zoom.

My main requirement tbh is the ability for a camera to fit easily in my jacket pocket. I think there is so little difference in image quality from the top end compacts that something like portability is more important to me. From the looks of it this wont when you stick a reasonable zoom lens on it. If its not comfortably portable then i might just as well stick with my D300.

At the moment im looking at the new fuji x10 or the panny lx-5. The G12 is lovely but it is a bit on the chunky side still and the Sony, again, needs a humphing great lens on the front of it. Until i see one in the flesh this really hasnt convinced me to get one. Plus i want dials to turn rather than to fiddle with menu settings.
 
Guess I'm going to have to look at the Panasonic GF2 with the 14mm f2.5 pancake lens... much cheaper at £299...
 
What it could have been:
A DX format high quality rival to the NEX/PEN/GF that had instant compatibility with almost every lens Nikon have made in the last 50 years with the potential for an FX version at some point in the future.
A camera that would fit easily into existing Nikon SLR kit owner's lineup and would have put Nikon in the unique position of being the only brand to offer a mirrorless compact which could share lenses (with full functionality and without adaptors) with their SLRs and DSLRs.

What it is:
A toy.
 
Or £399 with the 14and 14-42. Very tempting price. Only think making me hold fire is to wait for reviews of the Fuji X10.
 
That was in response to the post about GF2. Can't edit posts on my phone app.
 
you do realise who they are aiming this camera at

fixedimage said:
What it could have been:
A DX format high quality rival to the NEX/PEN/GF that had instant compatibility with almost every lens Nikon have made in the last 50 years with the potential for an FX version at some point in the future.
A camera that would fit easily into existing Nikon SLR kit owner's lineup and would have put Nikon in the unique position of being the only brand to offer a mirrorless compact which could share lenses (with full functionality and without adaptors) with their SLRs and DSLRs.

What it is:
A toy.
Click to expand...
 
POAH said:
you do realise who they are aiming this camera at
Click to expand...

I think that's the key question. We don't get it because it's not aimed at enthusiasts at all. Conceptually, it's much more of a glorified compact than a DSLR rival or even similar to other mirrorless cameras.

Whether or not Nikon has found a niche within a niche, is something else entirely. It seems to be more about how a 'new generation' of image makers goes about shooting (and sharing) their vidi-snaps or whatever Nikon calls it, rather than the more conventional way of doing things.

I know where they're coming from with that, like my childern, now both early 20s. They have no interest in what I call photography (none at all, despite my best efforts) but they both shoot loads of stuff on their iPhones - stills and vids - and share them on-line.

It could be that the Nikon 1 is actually a bit ahead of it's time. Well, good luck to them with that. It must be a heck of distraction from their current core business though. Nikon is quite a small company compared to Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung etc and they're going to be stretched.
 
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Incidentally a report I read on the business pages says Nikon's share price rose after this announcement so clearly some folk can see the market for it.

Interesting comment on 'bythom' about the lack of shareability - i.e. with Facebook etc.
 
Oh Nikon, what have you done...

You've given us a camera that's got the sensor of a compact, but bigger than a compact, with a lens slower f-stop wise than a compact. You had the chance to enter the micro four thirds market, and give us a great set of superb lenses and finally help standardize lens mounts so we can use any lens on any camera (within one sensor size at least). I could have use the Voigtlaender 25mm f0.95 on a Nikon body! that would have been amazing.

Or you could have given us a DX format compact, like the Sony, but no... probably because Nikkor lenses don't really have that designer feel that the Sony's do. I can understand that.

You made this over sized useless thing. At a ridiculous price, you don't have the price of a pentamirror or even a pentaprism in there, the D7000 is in this things price range as far as I can tell and that has an expensive pentaprism! the sensor is tiny and should be very cheap to produce, so why the expense? I really don't get it!

... Oh, I get it. You've got a big marketing team, and that's what will get this thing off the shelves.

I'll just get a Canon S95/100 or a Oly Pen, thanks Nikon.

(Can you tell I'm a little disappointed by this?! and I just fell in love with Nikon's DSLR's again!)
 
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The people pointing out that this camera isn't aimed at us slr wielders are completely correct. Go and read the article on dpreview where nikon state this! Small sensor aside there is a hell of a lot of tech in these little cameras, a lot of which will probably find it's way into the next generation of nikon slrs. That, as a canon user makes me a little jealous as the performance leap could be huge. I don't think nikon have missed the point at all but a lot of the users here have!
 
I don't think it's a question of people missing the point, we all get that a pink camera with a fingernail sized sensor ain't aimed at serious users, what we are lamenting is what could have been had Nikon chosen to aim this camera at us.
 
fixedimage said:
What it could have been:
A DX format high quality rival to the NEX/PEN/GF that had instant compatibility with almost every lens Nikon have made in the last 50 years with the potential for an FX version at some point in the future.
A camera that would fit easily into existing Nikon SLR kit owner's lineup and would have put Nikon in the unique position of being the only brand to offer a mirrorless compact which could share lenses (with full functionality and without adaptors) with their SLRs and DSLRs.

What it is:
A toy.
Click to expand...

It would be technically impossible for the mirrorless system to share the F-mount without making the bodies even bigger so the lens is the right distance from the sensor.
Sony didn't make a separate mount on the NEX because they thought it would be a good idea, they did it because they have to to keep the body size small enough to make the thing worthwhile, and nikon would have had to do the same even if they had made a camera system aimed at more serious photographers.

That's the reason no brand has yet made a compact mirrorless system that's compatible with existing lens line ups, because it wouldn't work.
 
Just in case this hasn't been posted here....

There's a Nikon / MFT size comparison here...

http://www.43rumors.com/

It's surprising to see that the Nikon is actually bigger than the Oly :thinking: Unless I'm missing summot I just can't see anything the Nikon has going for it.
 
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fixedimage said:
I don't think it's a question of people missing the point, we all get that a pink camera with a fingernail sized sensor ain't aimed at serious users, what we are lamenting is what could have been had Nikon chosen to aim this camera at us.
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No point lamenting, they didn't make it for you! Best to look at the tech that could be translated and see what it can do for the next generation of SLRs.
 
Just been reading Thom Hogans site and he has thought of a use for this new Nikon, sports shooting for web images. I can see where he's coming from but it isn't something that I'd be interested in.

http://bythom.com/
 
yawn, nothing exciting for today. Nikon missed a good chance to make an innovative product, they just made a complex PS on steroids. Expeed 3 is something to watch out for.

So far I'd put my money on Sony in mirorless department, maybe also Samsung. Only Canon is yet to make their announcement, if any
 
Sony may have a bigger sensor and better IQ but they also have bigger lenses and for me the advantage of mirrorless is it's compact size and weight and that's probably going out the window if you use a lens designed for APS-C.

Oly and Panny may well use sensors that are a generation behind the best but they're ok at low to medium ISO and as they're MTF their lenses and overall package is small and light. Granted the Nikon may also be small and light but it's getting further away from the Goldilocks position (IMVHO) of compact size and light weight with good enough IQ that seems to be MFT's USP.
 
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People are saying these are aimed at the average p&s consumer and not the enthusiasts but I got one response to that... 10mp... Average consumer is not smart enough to understand lower mp may be better than higher mp. For example, I was chatting a guy at work today and he was saying he just bought a p&s and chose that specific model because it was 16mp...

Correct me if im wrong but both olympus and panasonic m4/3 have higher mp?? So your average consumer will most likely go for those brands... 24mpx Sony Nex7 is a great attention grabber for average consumer!

These will only sell because they are Nikon.

Both models look like toy cameras. Their design looks rushed and incomplete. I dont mind the smaller sensor as it means smaller/faster lenses but Nikon decided to release slow lenses. Even the prime is f2.8.. It should have been f1.4 or f1.8 at most. And the lenses do not look very small either.

I was expecting a much stronger product from Nikon. Hopefully if canon decides to enter this market they dont make the same mistakes.

Personally, if i want a pocketable camera, i probably would go for high end compact or gf3 (or olympus equivalent)... And if i wanted a small, but great camera g3 or one of the latest nex models...
 
existent said:
People are saying these are aimed at the average p&s consumer and not the enthusiasts but I got one response to that... 10mp... Average consumer is not smart enough to understand lower mp may be better than higher mp. For example, I was chatting a guy at work today and he was saying he just bought a p&s and chose that specific model because it was 16mp...

Correct me if im wrong but both olympus and panasonic m4/3 have higher mp?? So your average consumer will most likely go for those brands... 24mpx Sony Nex7 is a great attention grabber for average consumer!

These will only sell because they are Nikon.

Both models look like toy cameras. Their design looks rushed and incomplete. I dont mind the smaller sensor as it means smaller/faster lenses but Nikon decided to release slow lenses. Even the prime is f2.8.. It should have been f1.4 or f1.8 at most. And the lenses do not look very small either.

I was expecting a much stronger product from Nikon. Hopefully if canon decides to enter this market they dont make the same mistakes.

Personally, if i want a pocketable camera, i probably would go for high end compact or gf3 (or olympus equivalent)... And if i wanted a small, but great camera g3 or one of the latest nex models...
Click to expand...

Smaller gf range and pens have 12MP
 
existent said:
Both models look like toy cameras. Their design looks rushed and incomplete.
Click to expand...

I quite like the styling, they look vaguely rangefinderish and I like the sort of minimalist simplicity.

I almost certainly wont buy one and the spec doesn't thrill me but I quite like how they actually look.
 
fixedimage said:
I don't think it's a question of people missing the point, we all get that a pink camera with a fingernail sized sensor ain't aimed at serious users
Click to expand...

Why Nikon chose to target that
market and release these bodies with prime lenses and a swivel head flash is what is confusing me. :-?
 
Eurgh, come on Canon. Join the fun and show Nikon how to do it properly... X100 style camera with an interchangeable lens. Job done?
 
The thing that will interest me most with the new V1 is:

1) How easy it is to focus manually (ie zone focus & hyperfocal) as I cannot see any distance scale on the lens. (I'm talking about the 10mm prime as that's the only lens that would remotely interest me)

2) If there is any shutter lag. Any lag at all would be a deal breaker.

The smaller sensor will not particularly bother me as it's still larger than premium compacts and offers better DOF compared with m43 and DX so seems a good compromise for this type of camera. The relatively low 10MP is very welcome as it likely means less noise than other compacts at high ISO.
 
I think this article sums up the Nikon 1 concept for Nikon. Basically they don't want to step onto their own dSLR market but I can't see which market they are going for with this :thinking:
 
They are selling bright pink cameras to the iPhone generation. People who don't care about sensor sizes and probably think ISO is a terrorist organisation. It does look nice (not the pink one), and the price does seem steep, but that should settle in time.
 
boliston said:
The thing that will interest me most with the new V1 is:

1) How easy it is to focus manually (ie zone focus & hyperfocal) as I cannot see any distance scale on the lens. (I'm talking about the 10mm prime as that's the only lens that would remotely interest me)

2) If there is any shutter lag. Any lag at all would be a deal breaker.

The smaller sensor will not particularly bother me as it's still larger than premium compacts and offers better DOF compared with m43 and DX so seems a good compromise for this type of camera. The relatively low 10MP is very welcome as it likely means less noise than other compacts at high ISO.
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What? Better DOF than m43?

The sensor in the m43 range is much, much bigger than the new Nikons, you can achieve a much shallower DOF with m43.

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Not that much bigger than a G12/S95 or an Olympus XZ-1
 
Cameralabs said:
It's also worth looking into that 2.7x field reduction for a moment. This would seem to benefit telephoto work, as a relatively small focal length on a CX-format body could deliver a large effective focal length in practice. But look again at the figures, especially compared to Sony's latest 24 Megapixel APS-C sensor. Note I'll be making assumptions the entire sensor dimensions quoted by the manufacturers are active and devoted to the actual photo sites.

Starting with linear resolution, the Sony sensor packs 6000 pixels into a sensor measuring 23.4mm wide; that equates to individual photo sites measuring 0.0039mm wide. Meanwhile the Nikon CX sensor packs 3872 pixels into a sensor measuring 13.2mm wide, equating to individual photo sites measuring 0.0034mm wide. This makes the photosites on the Nikon sensor only about 15% smaller in either dimension; that is to say, if you took the same physical area from each sensor, the Nikon would only squeeze 15% more pixels into it horizontally or vertically.

The reason this is worth noting is it effectively eliminates almost all of the perceived telephoto advantage from the Nikon CX system when compared to a high resolution APS-C sensor. If you fitted a lens of the same focal length to both the Nikon V1 / J1 and Sony NEX-7, the images direct from each camera may show a different view, but by taking a 10 Megapixel crop from the middle of the Sony, you'd end up with coverage and detail within 15% of the Nikon. And obviously the Sony has the advantage of the original uncropped 24 Megapixel image with a broader coverage, although to be fair it would require a physically bigger lens to deliver the required imaging circle to its bigger sensor.

Looking at their respective sensor areas and pixel densities you can also calculate the Nikon V1 / J1 and Sony NEX-7 have photo-site areas of 11.5 and 15.2 square micrometers respectively, which gives the Sony around 50% greater light-gathering area per pixel, implying higher sensitivity. Of course differences in micro-lenses and filter arrays, not to mention image processing all play a role in final image quality, but crunching the numbers certainly gives food for thought.
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Lenses are ridiculously big. Just not even funny.

Awful ergonomics too...
DEPREVIEW said:
The J1 has this problem as well - in my shooting I've lost count of the number of times I've accidentally rotated the dial when shifting my grip on the camera, and ended up in one of the other exposure modes. This is especially annoying when you end up in movie mode, because it's easy not to realise what has happened.
Click to expand...
 
I've tried this out recently. It shoots at ridiculous frame rates while doing stills (60 FPS) and up to 1200 FPS on low resolution video modes.

It was strange taking photo's with the camera, when doing portrait shots you saw every little facial movement. I also managed to accidentally capture a pigeon flying through a crowd of people in town at 1200 FPS - when playing back the 5 second clip it took nearly five minutes.

After patiently waiting for the right point in the video, it was amazing. Such slow motion, it was great to see such a simple everyday thing in so different a light.

I can't wait to try this with some of my Nikon lenses when the adapter comes out
 
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