Nikon DSLR Choices

[texfoto]

So, imaging resource says that the D3s can perform better in low light than several more recent DSLR's such as the D750, D810, and even the D4s. They site they pixel size in microns.

I might believe the D750 and D810 but I figure the D4 and 4s would have faired better. Is this because Nikon decided to go more pixels than bigger pixels with these later models? I want better resolution with my jump back into DSLR's but do not want to give up what I used to have with the D3s.

Thoughts with your experiences?

 

[Kodiak Qc]

•


D3S.
The larger pixels means indeed catching more photon per
pixel but to the cost of higher resolution. I use it when ever
I don't control the light conditions and must come back with
a shot. The ultimate gun, my workhorse for photojournalism.

D3X.
Double the pixel count, it is still very good in low lights. I use
it when I can control the light conditions and is my main body
for publishing works, my main source of income, since it can
easily produce A3 centrefolds. Often used in technical works
like stacking and stitching, in all studio sessions and location
shoots where I can control light conditions. The best choice
still today and my favourite camera even for wildlife as it has
a greater firing rate and buffer than the next on this list. A real
pro tool and it doesn't do videos!

D800E
With 150% the pixel count of the D3X, it is an interesting tool
when one is willing to trade flexibility for resolution and 45MB
file size. It requires best light conditions since image degradation
appears at ISO as low as 800. My better tool if I want to extend
the reach of my 600mm ƒ4. The buffer is a pain in the… as it fills
up too fast due to the file size and the battery is Mickey Mouse stuff.
The firing is consequently slower than the single digits bodies. It is
not built so perfectly as them either but good enough if one does
not treat it like a single digit.

D4S
With 33% more of smaller size pixels than the D3S, the low light
features are more due to software than hardware upgrade. The
AF is not a game changer but a cool improvement. A higher F/s
rate means nothing to me (from 9 to 11). Still, it is a single digit
that has its place at the top. I would consider it only if I'd loose in
any way the usage of the D3S.

D750
This is the body I recommend to all my students (I am somewhat
jealous at times of the flip screen!) It has all the necessary features
of the bigger brothers without the cost of the tank type construction
and extreme performances of the single digits.

I know, you have a tough decision to make and I hope this will help
you but I don't want to be in your shoes… been there, done that!

 

[texfoto]

Very much appreciate your response. It's a great level set bit of information that gives me a better idea where I'm at now.

Now that I'm thinking about all of this I'm contemplating whether I shouldn't be looking at other brands.

The 5D Mark III or maybe the A7R II. I don't like Sony's prices for their lenses . I could go Canon. I think their bodies always fit better in my hands anyway. I'll be out to the shops this weekend trying them out. I like Canon's lens lineup and I think they have done well keeping up with Nikon lately. Maybe it's time to go with a new brand.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[JYC]

Think the low light advantage is mostly gone by the time you downsize the bigger files to the size of the D3s ones? Don't worry about it too much unless you exclusively shoot in low light, and in that case look at the A7s

 

[snerkler]

I can't find anywhere that directly compares the D3s with all the others as it's quite a bit older but if you look here I would say at iso 12800 the D3s and D4 are about the same, even with the extra resolution of the D4.
http://www.dpreview.co.uk/reviews/studiocompare.asp#baseDir=/reviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio scene&headerSubTitle=Standard studio scene comparison&masterCamera=nikon_d3s&masterSample=bsb_9961.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=nikon_d3s&slot0Sample=bsb_9961.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=nikon_d4&slot1Sample=dsc_4701.acr&slot2Camera=nikon_d800&slot2Sample=dsc_0261.acr&x=0.2969767441860465&y=-0.6677475358422937&extraCameraCount=0

And then if you compare the D4 with the D4s, D750 and D810 I would say that the D4s is better than the D4 (and therefore better than the D3s) and the D750 is pretty comparable (depending on where you highlight the image) to the D4 which is pretty impressive considering it's 24mp. I would imagine it would be better than the D4 after downsampling. The D810 is the worst as you'd expect due to pixel size, but again after downsampling I would imagine it's comparable.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ima...1&x=0.11855820750121784&y=-0.9628358750907771

So based on this I would say that before downsampling the D4s is the best, the D3/D4/D750 are all comparable, and the D810 is last. Obviously this is only one test and it's not gospel, but it's a good indication.

The 5DIII isn't as good at noise handling as the D750, and has much worse DR. The Sony A7R-II isn't any better than the D750 looking at this (probably worse and deffo worse at 25600), and there's the price and horrible sony skin tones
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ima...1&x=0.11855820750121784&y=-0.9628358750907771

Also you say you like the feel of Canons in your hands, have you tried the D750? For me it's one of the best bodies on the market in terms of ergonomics, the grip is so much better that previous Nikons. Also you have the tilt screen, very handy for landscapes.

 

[texfoto]

I just looked through the links. The A7R II and 5D Mark III look terrible at 12,800. Haha

I feel like a pixel peeper. The D4s and D750 look pretty good and for the money the D750 looks great. Did t realise the 5D struggled so much in this area.

I think my choices are narrowing. The big question I need to ask myself is, how much do I care about low light? How bad are these really?

 

[Craig_85]

What specifically do you want the camera for?

 

[Red9R]

Texfoto, hope you don't mid me asking here, Kodiak Qc as you have used both which would you would be better for sport in an average (badly lit) sports hall with no flash allowed the D3s or the D750?

 

[texfoto]

Red9R, not at all. That's probably what I want to know as well. I want good resolution but I don't want noisy pictures when the light is challenging. I'm not going to go as far as sports in that light but just want a little more resolution than the D3s. Then again, do I need it? This is not my money maker but I formally had the D3s. No complaints but just researching options.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

Kodiak Qc as you have used both which would you would be better for sport in an average (badly lit) sports hall with no flash allowed the D3s or the D750?

•

I would go for the single digit. The decisive
advantage being buffer size.

I recommend my students the D750 because it has
most of the pro features but not the high performance.
Sports require top performance from all, camera, as well
as toggers and athletes.

Since the D5 is out, it will the D4s make available on the
"used market" you should look there. I would!

 

[snerkler]

Texfoto, hope you don't mid me asking here, Kodiak Qc as you have used both which would you would be better for sport in an average (badly lit) sports hall with no flash allowed the D3s or the D750?

Red9R, not at all. That's probably what I want to know as well. I want good resolution but I don't want noisy pictures when the light is challenging. I'm not going to go as far as sports in that light but just want a little more resolution than the D3s. Then again, do I need it? This is not my money maker but I formally had the D3s. No complaints but just researching options.

As kodiak says the D3s is better due to the buffer. Having said that I shoot sports (most recently the London Marathon) with the D750 and rarely does the buffer become an issue, but then I don't machine gun for several seconds at a time. I also get more than useable images at 12800 iso.

Couple of shots at 12800. The tunnel is very very dark to the naked eye, the lights may as well not be there


DSC_3959 2 by TDG-77, on Flickr

DSC_1962 by TDG-77, on Flickr

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Whilst the D750 is excellent, don't dismiss the D810 out of hand. It's a bit more robust than the D750 and has the same deep grip. It's probably the best 'all round' general purpose Nikon full frame today in terms of quality . I use both but often pick it up in preference to the D750.

 

[snerkler]

Whilst the D750 is excellent, don't dismiss the D810 out of hand. It's a bit more robust than the D750 and has the same deep grip. It's probably the best 'all round' general purpose Nikon full frame today in terms of quality . I use both but often pick it up in preference to the D750.

Really? The grip was quite different from my experience Also you can see here how much more recessed the grip is on the D750.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#567,557,ha,t

The D810 is a great camera though and as you say shouldn't be dismissed. I almost bought it myself but the grip and the flippy screen on the D750 swayed me

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Really? The grip was quite different from my experience Also you can see here how much more recessed the grip is on the D750.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#567,557,ha,t

The D810 is a great camera though and as you say shouldn't be dismissed. I almost bought it myself but the grip and the flippy screen on the D750 swayed me

The D810 is slightly bigger of course, but the ergonomics are the same. There is really not much difference when you put the two base plates together in reality.

 

[Swanseajack]

The D810 is slightly bigger of course, but the ergonomics are the same. There is really not much difference when you put the two base plates together in reality.

I agree, I think the D810 grip is very similar to the D750, it's the slightly different shape and button layout which makes the D750 seem deeper, as seen in link above.

 

[Dave Semmens]

I would not discount the D810 and in no way would I move over to a 5D mk3 instead of the D810.

I find the D810 to be a good wildlife camera and superb landscape camera. ISO 64 and resolution are superb for landscapes.

I did plan on buying a D500 to compliment the D810 but in all honesty is does what I need for wildlife and I will save my money for when the D810 replacement comes out in the next year or so.

I suffer from severe GAS at times, but at no point in the last 2 years have I thought of replacing the D810 - I have spent a fortune on lenses though

Dave.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

I agree, I think the D810 grip is very similar to the D750, it's the slightly different shape and button layout which makes the D750 seem deeper, as seen in link above.

In reality, using both the D750 and D810 (gripped or un-gripped) I don't notice any discernible difference in comfort apart from the weight.

One feature I do like about it over the D750 is the rear viewfinder black out-blind, which is far much easier to use than the fiddly plastic eye piece (now lost) on the D750.

 

[snerkler]

The D810 is slightly bigger of course, but the ergonomics are the same. There is really not much difference when you put the two base plates together in reality.

I agree, I think the D810 grip is very similar to the D750, it's the slightly different shape and button layout which makes the D750 seem deeper, as seen in link above.

Just shows how different we all are lol. My hands are knackered so I really pay attention to things like the grip and for me the difference is quite noticeable, but as this proves YMMV This is why I don't like the battery grip on the D750 either, doesn't feel the same as the D750's 'normal' grip, too 'chunky'

 

[Swanseajack]

In reality, using both the D750 and D810 (gripped or un-gripped) I don't notice any discernible difference in comfort apart from the weight.

One feature I do like about it over the D750 is the rear viewfinder black out-blind, which is far much easier to use than the fiddly plastic eye piece (now lost) on the D750.

Nor me, been happy with my D810 after using the D750 for the last two years or so, after coming from the XT1. I was planning on buying the Sigma 24-35 f2 lens this week, but we have decided to renew our season tickets so will have yo wait a little longer to use the blind.

As I don't own both cameras like you now, but it seems to me the AF is better on the D810 especially for the group area AF for wildlife, it just seems to lock on with the better buffer, whats your thoughts?.......It maybe just be in my mind.

 

[Spiritflier]

I used to have a 5DMKIII but switched to Nikon a couple of years ago... I've also owned the D800 but my full-frame option is now the D750. I find that 24mp is more than enough for my needs and it's solid enough to handle demanding conditions. I shot with it at the Wales GB rally last year and it got rained on all day long. Apart from a bit of fogging in the viewfinder towards the end of the day, the camera never skipped a beat. I use it for everything from weddings and portraits to wildlife and aviation and as an all-rounder, I find it hard to beat.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Nor me, been happy with my D810 after using the D750 for the last two years or so, after coming from the XT1. I was planning on buying the Sigma 24-35 f2 lens this week, but we have decided to renew our season tickets so will have yo wait a little longer to use the blind.

As I don't own both cameras like you now, but it seems to me the AF is better on the D810 especially for the group area AF for wildlife, it just seems to lock on with the better buffer, whats your thoughts?.......It maybe just be in my mind.

To be honest, I don't do lot of wildlife photography but had quite a bit of success with fast moving birds. The AF group area is excellent, the buffer is faster and can process more exposures quickly, faster shutter speed too. If only the D810 was in the form the X-T1 - the Df sucks !

 

[texfoto]

As kodiak says the D3s is better due to the buffer. Having said that I shoot sports (most recently the London Marathon) with the D750 and rarely does the buffer become an issue, but then I don't machine gun for several seconds at a time. I also get more than useable images at 12800 iso.

Couple of shots at 12800. The tunnel is very very dark to the naked eye, the lights may as well not be there


DSC_3959 2 by TDG-77, on Flickr

DSC_1962 by TDG-77, on Flickr

I would not complain about that capability in that tunnel at Isl 12800.

It also sounds like the D810 is very well liked and sounds capable but with fantastic resolution. D4s is great too but always having it at that size is bulky. I did love the feel of the D3s, just not the portability compared to the D700.

I think I'm going to rent a couple of these one weekend with a favourite lens and snap away and decide. It's the only way to get it down to one final body.

 

[Swanseajack]

Just shows how different we all are lol. My hands are knackered so I really pay attention to things like the grip and for me the difference is quite noticeable, but as this proves YMMV This is why I don't like the battery grip on the D750 either, doesn't feel the same as the D750's 'normal' grip, too 'chunky'

Have you actually used a D810 for any period of time? I have nerve damage to both index fingers from accidents, ulnar nerve problems along with arthritis, so I pay attention also. I have found the D810 grip maybe better, but the D750 camera is lighter.

The benefit you receive over someone like me, is that I mostly use the camera tripod mounted and I'm not in the position physically to use it handheld all day as you may do. So the differences then would be huge.

As Si has said, the D750 is a brilliant camera and I only changed to the D810 due to GAS. Both cameras are more than enough for my capabilities

 

[Red9R]

Thanks texfoto
Kodiak, Snerkler thanks for the replies, I should have said (Gin addled at the time) all the sports hall stuff I do is Judo, my son competes at a reasonable level and the photos are for us and club F/B page plus some for the uni team, I am not doing it for a business, having said that, I do want to start getting some printed and friend we have asked for photos I have done so want to do the best "I" can.
I have never hit the buffer even on my D7000 so I can'tn see that being a problem, I tend to watch and anticipate, some players you just know will do something spectacular (always seems to be facing away from me though
would love a D4 but I can not see me being able to afford one even second hand, the D3s second will be just about doable and the D750 I could get new, I made the stupid mistake of not listening to good advice on here once before and getting a D7000 all nice and new instead of a good second hand D700, lesson learned , new does not always mean best for the use you have in mind!
Snerkler, I would love to be able to have taken either of those!!

Thanks again.

 

[snerkler]

Nor me, been happy with my D810 after using the D750 for the last two years or so, after coming from the XT1. I was planning on buying the Sigma 24-35 f2 lens this week, but we have decided to renew our season tickets so will have yo wait a little longer to use the blind.

As I don't own both cameras like you now, but it seems to me the AF is better on the D810 especially for the group area AF for wildlife, it just seems to lock on with the better buffer, whats your thoughts?.......It maybe just be in my mind.

D810 allows you to shoot twice as long in a number of scenarios. Part of this will be the slightly slower FPS but the rest due to buffer size. I haven't found the AF on the D750 lacking for wildlife, and only on a couple of occasions wished for a bigger buffer.

 

[snerkler]

Have you actually used a D810 for any period of time?

Yes

I have nerve damage to both index fingers from accidents, ulnar nerve problems along with arthritis, so I pay attention also.

I have similar issues to yourself, although by the sounds of it not as severe as I can at least use my setup handheld for short periods (letting it hang on the sling strap as much as possible) , but as I said YMMV which is why we all need to try these things for ourselves. The fact is the grips are different, how much impact that will have on the individual obviously varies [/quote]

The benefit you receive over someone like me, is that I mostly use the camera tripod mounted and I'm not in the position physically to use it handheld all day as you may do. So the differences then would be huge.

Yeah, for tripod and monopod work I don't find the ergonomics of the grip so important

As Si has said, the D750 is a brilliant camera and I only changed to the D810 due to GAS. Both cameras are more than enough for my capabilities

Yep both excellent. I want the D810 internals in the D750 body

 

[Swanseajack]

Yep both excellent. I want the D810 internals in the D750 body

D760 and I'll be back.

I have been thinking what I wrote above, the Sigma 24-35mm f2 is going to be too heavy for me, so I just bought a Nikon 50mm f1.4 and think I will go the prime route with the "D" lenses, 20mm, 35mm and the 50mm I just bought. Would like to buy a Fuji XT1 again but for me to able to afford it I would have to sell the D810. Not enough money is a pain, champagne tastes and lemonade pockets spring to mind.

I have similar issues to yourself, although by the sounds of it not as severe as I can at least use my setup handheld for short periods (letting it hang on the sling strap as much as possible) , but as I said YMMV which is why we all need to try these things for ourselves. The fact is the grips are different, how much impact that will have on the individual obviously varies

[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear, work related?. My recent shoulder and elbow ops don't seem to have gone to plan and will have another MRI June 12th. Previous Subacromial Decompression ops to both shoulders have been Un-successfull so wont bother having another go on the right after my latest ones to left side.

 

[snerkler]

Sorry to hear, work related?. My recent shoulder and elbow ops don't seem to have gone to plan and will have another MRI June 12th. Previous Subacromial Decompression ops to both shoulders have been Un-successfull so wont bother having another go on the right after my latest ones to left side.

Doesn't sound great, hope you get some results sooner or later.

Not sure of the cause of mine, most likely work related though. Taken nearly 10 years to actually find the potential root cause and now awaiting a further consultation with 4th different specialist. Sounds like investigative surgery is the next stage.

 

[Phiggys]

Nikon D810 135mm f2.0 DC

Cold frosty morn "D810 AF 135mm f2.0 DC" by Philip Higgins, on Flickr

Action ? D810 AFS 200mm f2.0 + 2x
One Giant Leap by Philip Higgins, on Flickr

Detail D810 AFS 200mm f2.0 +2x
Balancing act by Philip Higgins, on Flickr

 

[Peter123]

Gorgeous shots Phil. Timing superb on salmon (or is it a sea trout?).

 

[Phiggys]

Gorgeous shots Phil. Timing superb on salmon (or is it a sea trout?).

yes it was last years salmon off to spawn up the River Severn shot at the weir Shrewsbury along with the Heron watching them leap bye I found it rather amusing to watch if I'm honest.
Then again I'm easily amused