Nikon d850 "in development"

jonneymendoza said:
Damm that sucks.
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I'm sure they are all trying to design the best they can to try to meet these demands... And even if it can only resolve 28MP on the A7R2, that doesn't necessarily mean that 28MP is the "hard limit" for that lens. Put the lens on an even higher resolution sensor and there will almost certainly be some increase... it just won't be 1:1.

So yeah, "designed for high resolution sensors" is not wrong/misleading... they're just not to the point of being able to match the demands (and probably never will since the demands are increasing faster).
 
snerkler said:
Not according to these results, don't even resolve to the A7RII's MP let alone 100MP

https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Comp...-200mm-F28-GM-OSS__1850_1035_1712_1035_1679_0
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DXO number don't make sense to prove this and their blackbox doesn't show what the numbers exactly mean.

If you select a lower mp body, the resolution goes down and if you pick a higher mp body it goes up. So adding a body with even more MP than A7RII will most probably make that number go up.
 
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nandbytes said:
DXO number don't make sense to prove this and their blackbox doesn't show what the numbers exactly mean.

If you select a lower mp body, the resolution goes down and if you pick a higher mp body it goes up. So adding a body with even more MP than A7RII will most probably make that number go up.
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Yes they will, and sk66 can explain that better than I can. I don't understand why, if say the 105mm f1.4 can resolve 33 mpix on the D800e, why it can't then resolve all of the 24mp on the D750 (it's not far off tbh at 23 so maybe not the best example lol) However, the lenses still can't resolve the full detail of the high res cameras. The best I've seen is the Sigma 85mm f1.4 Art which can resolve all of the detail from the D800e :eek:
 
The P-Mpix scores they give, I don't think really translates directly to mp resolved. There isn't any clarity on what the number means or how they arrived at it. There is also fair amount of inconsistent data too surrounding this number.

Sony 90mm macro also resolves 42mp on A7RII according to the DXO score. But on A7R it only managers 32mp apparently. Whatever that means! :P
 
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nandbytes said:
The P-Mpix scores they give, I don't think really translates directly to mp resolved.
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It does...
P-Mpix is the measured MTF in line pairs per millimeter (LP/MM) which is what most tests/reviews give. They've just gone farther and calculated how many pixels it takes to resolve that number of line pairs (2px/LP). For instance, say a lens's tested MTF is 60LP/MM on that FF camera and the sensor is 36mm x 24mm. So (60LP x 36mm x 2px) X (60LP x 24mm x 2px) = 4,320 x 2880 = 12,441,600 = ~ 12.5MP resolved; regardless of how many pixels are on the sensor. And, that image would be quite sharp (up to the point of pixelation). BTW, another unit of MTF is LP/PH(picture height) which is 1440 in this case.

MTF is really system resolution and not the theoretical resolution manufacturers give due to multiple reasons (i.e. AA/no-AA). The reason it (almost) always goes up with greater MP's is due to sampling frequency... i.e. it takes 2 pixels to see/define the edge of a detail (line pair), but if that edge falls on the center of a pixel it then takes three pixels to determine where it is. But if that pixel were divided into 4 smaller pixels (higher MP sensor) that detail would again be where it would only require 2 pixels to see/define it. This is why you can't just take the MTF results from one test and blanket apply it to all situations/cameras/sensor sizes (but it can give you a general idea).
 
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it'll look fine, lads

looking forward to the wifi built in, will save the 'take a photo of the screen with your phone' thing to tweet or instagram something quickly! shame no gps built in for travel, though...guess that $3 chip was just too dear for a 3.5k camera....
 
Wayne Els said:
Ha you obviously have no experience of MoD procurement if you think the process has anything to do with quality of deliverables.
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Why the Ha ? - before you comment further. I'll just add that I am fully conversant with the Govt Procurement Process.

I've got experience in both camps. (Having been a military photographer in the Army) who has also worked for MOD. The police service has nothing to do with the MOD. (MODPOL aside) . Worked in scenes of crime too for twenty years and have taught forensic photography to CSIs at both regional and national level. So when I said Nikon is the main choice of the Armed Forces and police service I stand by my convictions. There are one or two units in the military / police that use point and shoot other stuff but by and large the 'photographs' use mainly Nikon.

By the way Fleet Air Arm Pilots ( that's Royal Navy Pilots) are not issued with cameras they are too busy flying helicopters. If any Phot work is required they will embark a LH(PHOT) or PO(PHOT) to do the job. You were correct though the RN do use Nikons - but as I said earlier, that's what military Photographers use.
 
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Tried out a D850 today in Vauxhall. it's a heavy beast ((heavier than my well worn D810). It's also slightly taller but the body is thinner which allows s better grip than it's predecessor. The high resolution capability with articulated screen, touch screen, face recognition and silent shutter is a game changer for wildlife , wedding and surveillance photography. There is no two ways about it this is an outstanding camera. The issue of recharging batteries for the MD-18 drive is also being addressed. It's not going to be a problem.
 
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Blank_Canvas said:
Why the Ha ? - before you comment further. I'll just add that I am fully conversant with the Govt Procurement Process.

I've got experience in both camps. (Having been a military photographer in the Army) who has also worked for MOD. The police service has nothing to do with the MOD. (MODPOL aside) . Worked in scenes of crime too for twenty years and have taught forensic photography to CSIs at both regional and national level. So when I said Nikon is the main choice of the Armed Forces and police service I stand by my convictions. There are one or two units in the military / police that use point and shoot other stuff but by and large the 'photographs' use mainly Nikon.

By the way Fleet Air Arm Pilots ( that's Royal Navy Pilots) are not issued with cameras they are too busy flying helicopters. If any Phot work is required they will embark a LH(PHOT) or PO(PHOT) to do the job. You 8were correct though the RN do use Nikons - but as I said earlier, that's what military Photographers use.
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The ha was a lighthearted joke about Mod procurement.

I didn't say pilot I said phot, he was a LH.

And if you were a pongo over 20 years ago - assuming the man strapped services haven't let you moonlight for that long your understanding as to how the MoD procurement process works will be very out of date.
 
Wayne Els said:
The ha was a lighthearted joke about Mod procurement.

I didn't say pilot I said phot, he was a LH.

And if you were a pongo over 20 years ago - assuming the man strapped services haven't let you moonlight for that long your understanding as to how the MoD procurement process works will be very out of date.
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I can neither confirm or deny.....
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Tried out a D850 today in Vauxhall. it's a heavy beast ((heavier than my well worn D810). It's also slightly taller but the body is thinner which allows s better grip than it's predecessor. The high resolution capability with articulated screen, touch screen, face recognition and silent shutter is a game changer for wildlife , wedding and surveillance photography. There is no two ways about it this is an outstanding camera. The issue of recharging batteries for the MD-18 drive is also being addressed. It's not going to be a problem.
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Odd about the weight. I'm sure in one of the ads it said it was lighter than the D810 but sure enough tech specs show it's 25g heavier (comparing with battery and card).
 
Wayne Els said:
A quick apology to people for going slightly off topic.

https://britisharmy.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/time-to-switch-bodies/

;)
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A couple of things to consider in that old 2014 blog and as stated in it....

"Si’s opinions are his own and not an endorsement of the British Army"

The Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force won't be selling off their vast collection of Nikor lenses anytime soon to replace if for Canon, Fuji or anyone else. Now that would be a mammoth procurement exercise. It's far easier to stick with replacement Nikon bodies and in reality that is what happens. It's also the most cost effective option for the tax payer.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
A couple of things to consider in that old 2014 blog and as stated in it....

"Si’s opinions are his own and not an endorsement of the British Army"

The Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force won't be selling off their vast collection of Nikor lenses anytime soon to replace if for Canon, Fuji or anyone else. Now that would be a mammoth procurement exercise. It's far easier to stick with replacement Nikon bodies and in reality that is what happens. It's also the most cost effective option for the tax payer.
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Right, probably best to get back on topic - The D850 !!
 
snerkler said:
Odd about the weight. I'm sure in one of the ads it said it was lighter than the D810 but sure enough tech specs show it's 25g heavier (comparing with battery and card).
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Definitely heavier mate ! -but not much, after using a D850 for a few weeks you won't notice the difference.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Tried out a D850 today in Vauxhall. it's a heavy beast ((heavier than my well worn D810). It's also slightly taller but the body is thinner which allows s better grip than it's predecessor. The high resolution capability with articulated screen, touch screen, face recognition and silent shutter is a game changer for wildlife , wedding and surveillance photography. There is no two ways about it this is an outstanding camera. The issue of recharging batteries for the MD-18 drive is also being addressed. It's not going to be a problem.
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Am I right in saying you can only use the silent shutter/face recognition in LCD/Live View only?
If so it's hardly a game changer, try shooting a wedding with a 70-200mm f2.8 attached, and then on top of that trying to nail focus using the LCD and then hand holding it.

The D850 is a mere evolution in my eyes but a great one. Great work Nikon.
 
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Riz_Guru said:
Am I right in saying you can only use the silent shutter/face recognition in LCD/Live View only?
If so it's hardly a game changer, try shooting a wedding with a 70-200mm f2.8 attached, and then on top of that trying to nail focus using the LCD and then hand holding it.

The D850 is a mere evolution in my eyes but a great one. Great work Nikon.
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And with the frustratingly slow Nikon live view AF.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Am I right in saying you can only use the silent shutter/face recognition in LCD/Live View only?
If so it's hardly a game changer, try shooting a wedding with a 70-200mm f2.8 attached, and then on top of that trying to nail focus using the LCD and then hand holding it.

The D850 is a mere evolution in my eyes but a great one. Great work Nikon.
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All cameras are an evolution of its predecessor. That's a given. Face recognition is but one option in live mode. Many people prefer the group focus AF in the viewfinder. If you find your set up is too heavy, mirrorless may be the way forward for you.

Personally I have never been a fan of 70-200s at weddings. But ever considered how useful a silent shutter is in church with a 35mm lens while the couple take their vows ? - much better than using a mirror lock up to help to stem the noise.

The live view is pretty fast on this new model and on an articulated screen that you can touch to focus on and fire the shutter silently it has a lot of creative potential which is both fast and intuitive.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
The live view is pretty fast on this new model and on an articulated screen that you can touch to focus on and fire the shutter silently it has a lot of creative potential which is both fast and intuitive.
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When you say pretty fast are you talking mirrorless speed, or more D500?
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I've been talking about the Nikon D850 live view. It's real-time fast, it's live there is no lag. Just tap anywhere to focus and shoot and it will do so silently if you wish it to do so.
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That's a real big leap forward. Let's be honest, live view focus until now is pretty poor, you can't rely on it with fast paced focussed shots.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I've been talking about the Nikon D850 live view. It's real-time fast, it's live there is no lag. Just tap anywhere to focus and shoot and it will do so silently if you wish it to do so.
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This feature is brilliant and in some circumstances will change how I shoot entirely.
 
I loosed off about 20 frames in silent mode using the camera held waist hight looking down onto live view with the articulated screen open and parallel to the floor. My partner didn't have a clue and thought I was just reviewing images. I took some beautiful shots of her and she was amazed. They were natural, relaxed an unposed. This is one of the strengths of the system.
 
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Blank_Canvas said:
I've been talking about the Nikon D850 live view. It's real-time fast, it's live there is no lag. Just tap anywhere to focus and shoot and it will do so silently if you wish it to do so.
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Yeah I knew you were talking about the D850 lol ;) But my only experience with Nikon Live view is with the D610, D750 and D500 so I was looking at getting some comparison as to how quick AF is on the D850. The D750 is painfully slow, half press the shutter, wait for a second or so for it to hunt back and forth slightly and then it will lock. If the D850 is as good as mirrorless then this would be a major step forward.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I've been talking about the Nikon D850 live view. It's real-time fast, it's live there is no lag. Just tap anywhere to focus and shoot and it will do so silently if you wish it to do so.
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But will silent shooting result in rolling shutter and banding under artificial lighting?
 
sk66 said:
It is a rolling shutter...
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So shooting any kind moving subjects will result in jello images and there is a high chance you'll get banding under artificial lighting.
This will rule out professionals using the silent shutter for weddings, sports and events.
I have tried silent shutters in the past on bodies like the Fuji XT-2 and Sony A7RII and they were not good enough for professional use.
 
Riz_Guru said:
So shooting any kind moving subjects will result in jello images and there is a high chance you'll get banding under artificial lighting.
This will rule out professionals using the silent shutter for weddings, sports and events.
I have tried silent shutters in the past on bodies like the Fuji XT-2 and Sony A7RII and they were not good enough for professional use.
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I think they sped it up quite a bit in the Sony A9 to where it's often not a problem... might be just as good/better. Still, not being sure of the results with fast subjects might be problematic... and tracking using live view will be a whole new skill to learn (seems unnatural to me).
 
Riz_Guru said:
So shooting any kind moving subjects will result in jello images and there is a high chance you'll get banding under artificial lighting.
This will rule out professionals using the silent shutter for weddings, sports and events.
I have tried silent shutters in the past on bodies like the Fuji XT-2 and Sony A7RII and they were not good enough for professional use.
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They're getting better to the point it's very rarely problematic. We'll have to wait for real world tests to see how good/bad the D850 is.
 
I had a good play with the D850 today and it's amazing!

First thing you notice is the design, the grip is a little longer it seems and a little thinner but as a result feels really good. The Viewfinder is very clear and the changes although on paper may not seem much it is instantly noticeable.

Focus is very fast and although I couldn't try the 9FPS the 7FPS still felt very nippy coming from the D810.

Picture quality was incredible, the level if detail is nuts, I tried it with a few lenses, old and new. Handheld there was no sign of the higher MP causing any issues.

4K video as expected and 120fps at 1080 although that is shown as 30x4 (slow motion) in the menu when selecting it.

Not sure what else to say other than it is an amazing camera and I can't wait to get one next week.
 
Riz_Guru said:
So shooting any kind moving subjects will result in jello images and there is a high chance you'll get banding under artificial lighting.
This will rule out professionals using the silent shutter for weddings, sports and events.
I have tried silent shutters in the past on bodies like the Fuji XT-2 and Sony A7RII and they were not good enough for professional use.
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Can explain further on the last sentence.
I used the silent shutter for the ceremony shots the other week and didn't run into any issues.
 
addicknchips said:
Can explain further on the last sentence.
I used the silent shutter for the ceremony shots the other week and didn't run into any issues.
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You must have been very lucky as one of the weddings I shot with my A7RII I ended up with banding in my images under fluorescent lighting, so I couldn't use the silent shutter.
 
Haven't had banding issue on my A7RII so far with SS. Then again I don't go looking for it ;)
 
Riz_Guru said:
You must have been very lucky as one of the weddings I shot with my A7RII I ended up with banding in my images under fluorescent lighting, so I couldn't use the silent shutter.
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If the SS is slow enough, banding due to frequency oscillations will be minimized/eliminated... it's the same considerations as when recording video.
 
Riz_Guru said:
You must have been very lucky as one of the weddings I shot with my A7RII I ended up with banding in my images under fluorescent lighting, so I couldn't use the silent shutter.
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Not lucky, but skilful.
sk66 said:
If the SS is slow enough, banding due to frequency oscillations will be minimized/eliminated... it's the same considerations as when recording video.
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What he said. Banding is always a potential issue under fluorescent lights, even with an ordinary shutter. The way to avoid it is to ensure that the exposure time is an integer multiple of twice the mains frequency. So in the UK with 50Hz electricity, shoot at 1/100th, 1/50th, 1/25th, etc and you'll be fine.

(Some modern DSLRs have an anti-flicker setting which is supposed to avoid this issue without forcing you to choose a special shutter speed, but I don't know how it works or how well it works.)
 
StewartR said:
Not lucky, but skilful.

What he said. Banding is always a potential issue under fluorescent lights, even with an ordinary shutter. The way to avoid it is to ensure that the exposure time is an integer multiple of twice the mains frequency. So in the UK with 50Hz electricity, shoot at 1/100th, 1/50th, 1/25th, etc and you'll be fine.

(Some modern DSLRs have an anti-flicker setting which is supposed to avoid this issue without forcing you to choose a special shutter speed, but I don't know how it works or how well it works.)
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Valid points but they are workarounds, fluorescent lighting was just half the issue, you can also get jello images during panning shots because of rolling-shutter.
When it comes to LED lighting it's even worse, try working the frequency out for those and that's real skill lol. :D

I still think shooting using the LCD screen and a 70-200mm f2.8 handheld wont be easy in combination with the silent shutter feature on the D850.
 
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