Nikon d850 "in development"

On the subject of dslr's and mirrorless being used by joe public, I walk past St Paul's cathedral twice a day. Its tourist central and I walk (photo bomb) right where everyone stands trying to get the phone box and St. Paul's in frame.

I'd say 80% of the cameras used are smaller entry level dslrs and kit zooms. A few fx cameras and 24-70's. Lots of Compacts and bridge cameras are there. I've only occasionally seen the higher end mirrorless cameras about.
 
And back to the D850, I wonder how hard the raw files will be to deal with in LR.

Seen someone today say about d810 raw files taking 30 seconds to render when zooming to 1:1

and I thought his PC was quite strong, 16GB ram, SSD drives, dedicated GPU, CPU scoring over 7000 on cpu benchmark
 
GTG said:
And back to the D850, I wonder how hard the raw files will be to deal with in LR.

Seen someone today say about d810 raw files taking 30 seconds to render when zooming to 1:1

and I thought his PC was quite strong, 16GB ram, SSD drives, dedicated GPU, CPU scoring over 7000 on cpu benchmark
Click to expand...

Lol
 
GTG said:
And back to the D850, I wonder how hard the raw files will be to deal with in LR.

Seen someone today say about d810 raw files taking 30 seconds to render when zooming to 1:1

and I thought his PC was quite strong, 16GB ram, SSD drives, dedicated GPU, CPU scoring over 7000 on cpu benchmark
Click to expand...

I'm using a 5 year old imac and have no issues like that at all with D810 files. Something very odd going on there.
 
GTG said:
And back to the D850, I wonder how hard the raw files will be to deal with in LR.

Seen someone today say about d810 raw files taking 30 seconds to render when zooming to 1:1

and I thought his PC was quite strong, 16GB ram, SSD drives, dedicated GPU, CPU scoring over 7000 on cpu benchmark
Click to expand...
Are they uncompressed files? They're 70+ mb, but I'd never use them. Lossless compressed for me.
 
snerkler said:
Are they uncompressed files? They're 70+ mb, but I'd never use them. Lossless compressed for me.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm using. I generally build 1:1 previews as well but they become null and void once an edit is made. Either way, never notice much issue at all.
 
snerkler said:
Are they uncompressed files? They're 70+ mb, but I'd never use them. Lossless compressed for me.
Click to expand...

Not sure, there is a thread he made on here. Perhaps he is running a bloated PC. He had 5 storage devices including a 4TB one
 
addicknchips said:
On the subject of dslr's and mirrorless being used by joe public, I walk past St Paul's cathedral twice a day. Its tourist central and I walk (photo bomb) right where everyone stands trying to get the phone box and St. Paul's in frame.

I'd say 80% of the cameras used are smaller entry level dslrs and kit zooms. A few fx cameras and 24-70's. Lots of Compacts and bridge cameras are there. I've only occasionally seen the higher end mirrorless cameras about.
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No, that can't be right, because a lot of Asian tourists would be there, and they, more than anyone, are part of the 'everyone' wanting mirrorless cameras. ;) :LOL:

Seriously, this is where I think Nikon and Canon may make the biggest mistake, not giving those that want the entry level DSLR a feeling of innovation and progression. They have actually started taking features off cameras they replace down at the lower end. :rolleyes: These are the cameras that sell the most, and yes if you just want a cheap small DSLR there aren't that many options, but just a little research will tell that you don't get that much by getting the latest model over the previous model, and indeed may actually lose features like the sensor dust reduction and a lowering of Flash power on the D3400. :( :rolleyes: And in many cases the new model may sit alongside the 1 or 2 previous models still on sale to confuse things even more. :confused: Of course they must know what they are doing. :thinking: :LOL:
 
gad-westy said:
That's what I'm using. I generally build 1:1 previews as well but they become null and void once an edit is made. Either way, never notice much issue at all.
Click to expand...
I didn't realise that 1:1 previews were null and void after an edit's been made, can't say I've noticed any loss of speed unless they're old as my previews automatically delete after a month IIRC.
 
snerkler said:
I didn't realise that 1:1 previews were null and void after an edit's been made, can't say I've noticed any loss of speed unless they're old as my previews automatically delete after a month IIRC.
Click to expand...

Actually that's just an assumption I'm making, I could be wrong. I'll have a little experiment now and see what happens.
 
snerkler said:
I didn't realise that 1:1 previews were null and void after an edit's been made, can't say I've noticed any loss of speed unless they're old as my previews automatically delete after a month IIRC.
Click to expand...

Just did a little check and indeed it seems I'm right. If I have a 1:1 preview built, I can zoom straight into 1:1 with no lag at all. If I then make a minor change to white balance or something else, the next time I zoom 1:1, the image will be pixelated for 1-2 secs (I guess the time it takes to render).

In the past I've just periodically highlighted whole catalogue and built 1:1 previews. It doesn't take all that long as it'll only build previews for stuff that has been edited since last time it was done and hard disk space is cheap...
 
gad-westy said:
Just did a little check and indeed it seems I'm right. If I have a 1:1 preview built, I can zoom straight into 1:1 with no lag at all. If I then make a minor change to white balance or something else, the next time I zoom 1:1, the image will be pixelated for 1-2 secs (I guess the time it takes to render).

In the past I've just periodically highlighted whole catalogue and built 1:1 previews. It doesn't take all that long as it'll only build previews for stuff that has been edited since last time it was done and hard disk space is cheap...
Click to expand...
Interesting, makes you wonder what the point of 1:1 previews is then when the whole purpose of the software is to edit photos ;)
 
Anybody use smart previews instead of the original files for editing.
 
Gaz J said:
Anybody use smart previews instead of the original files for editing.
Click to expand...
No as all my original RAWs are always on my hard drive. It is only once I've finished editing that I offload my RAWs onto external drives. As such LR would never use the smart preview. Another disadvantage of smart previews is that you can only export files with 2054 pixels (iirc) on the longest edge.
 
snerkler said:
Interesting, makes you wonder what the point of 1:1 previews is then when the whole purpose of the software is to edit photos ;)
Click to expand...

It's pretty useful from a cataloging sense. I generate 1:1 previews on import. So if I have two images that are otherwise identical but want to see if one is sharper than another, the 1:1 preview is already there for a quick check before I've even thought about editing anything.
 
Doesn't Lightroom only use 1:1 previews generated on import in the library module. When you move to develop it makes new ones I believe. Generating smart previews on import or afterwards would allow Lightroom to use those in the develop module instead of the original files and then resync back after editing. Potentially some use to those with less powerful computers.
 
Gaz J said:
Doesn't Lightroom only use 1:1 previews generated on import in the library module. When you move to develop it makes new ones I believe. Generating smart previews on import or afterwards would allow Lightroom to use those in the develop module instead of the original files and then resync back after editing. Potentially some use to those with less powerful computers.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that it will only use smart previews if it can't locate the originals, such as those who store the RAWs on external drives and then use the computer without the external drive.
 
Adobe themselves have admitted the desktop version of Lightroom is a pretty poor and that the code is slow.
Having seen how Lightroom Mobile works on a iPad Pro editing files the 42.2mp files from the A7RII its clear they need to improve it vastly, that said I hope they keep releasing a standalone Lightroom product instead of dropping it for a Cloud only version.

Roll on Lightroom 7
 
snerkler said:
My understanding is that it will only use smart previews if it can't locate the originals, such as those who store the RAWs on external drives and then use the computer without the external drive.
Click to expand...

You can tell Lightroom to use smart previews instead of the originals even if they are on the hard drive. There's a couple of ways of doing it. I must give it a go. My PC is pretty quick even with the files from my 5D4 bit it will be interesting to see what it does when it's not redrawing the original all the time.
 
Gaz J said:
You can tell Lightroom to use smart previews instead of the originals even if they are on the hard drive. There's a couple of ways of doing it. I must give it a go. My PC is pretty quick even with the files from my 5D4 bit it will be interesting to see what it does when it's not redrawing the original all the time.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I've not seen that. I'll have to look into it (y)
 
snerkler said:
Interesting, I've not seen that. I'll have to look into it (y)
Click to expand...

You can do it in Preferences - Develop or you can temporarily rename the folder on your hard drive which is what I've done when showing people how smart previews work (I just add temp at the end of the folder tag), which will then allow LR to use the smart previews.
 
redhed17 said:
If everyone wanted mirrorless, they would be outselling DSLRs, and they are not. :rolleyes: Not yet anyway. ;)

Nikon are lagging behind with regards to mirrorless, at least above a 1" sensor. I doubt a D850 is a line they would take the Crop/FF mirrorless gamble with. And why would they, when not everyone wants that! ;) :LOL:
Click to expand...
Like everything else, it takes momentum before things move, not everyone can immediately switch cameras when a new one comes, doesn't mean to say if the option is available they wouldn't choose it. Why would you potentially purchase something with more moving parts, more potential to fail and less life expectancy when there is another option. I'm seriously considering selling all my Nikon kit and making the switch to Sony (or would when the lenses availability is more mature). I'm a wedding tog and both my D750's which I've had about two and half years are nearing 100,000 actuations which means changing them at some point in the not too distant future. I for one and I suspect many others would like not to have to switch cameras every four years or so.
 
The latest rumoured spec. Read more @ Nikon Rumors
  • 45-46MP full frame CMOS sensor
  • Improved low and high ISO
  • New and improved version of SnapBridge
  • No built-in GPS
  • Tiltable LCD touchscreen just like the D750 and D500
  • Memory card slots: one SD and one XQD
  • AF system from the D5
  • No built-in flash (from the teaser picture)
  • Back illuminated buttons (from leaked pictures)
  • Joystick selector (from leaked pictures)
  • Built-in Bluetooth and Wi-Fi (from leaked pictures)
  • 8K time-lapse video capabilities (from promo video)
  • The D850 will be on display at the Photo+ Expo in October
  • 4k UHD video in FX format (with no crop)
  • No EVF or hybrid viewfinder
  • Fast fps (8fps or more)
  • New: the D850 LCD will have twice the resolution of the D810
  • New: slo-mo full HD 120fps video
  • New: the SD slot will support UHS-II
  • New: improved LiveView split-screen display
  • New: improved silent shooting mode
  • New: improved battery life
  • New: lighter than the D810
There's suddenly talk of a cut down D5. :confused:
And not a hybrid EVF/OVF, but something 'special'. Mmm, intriguing. :thinking:
 
MartinH32 said:
Like everything else, it takes momentum before things move, not everyone can immediately switch cameras when a new one comes, doesn't mean to say if the option is available they wouldn't choose it. Why would you potentially purchase something with more moving parts, more potential to fail and less life expectancy when there is another option. I'm seriously considering selling all my Nikon kit and making the switch to Sony (or would when the lenses availability is more mature). I'm a wedding tog and both my D750's which I've had about two and half years are nearing 100,000 actuations which means changing them at some point in the not too distant future. I for one and I suspect many others would like not to have to switch cameras every four years or so.
Click to expand...

Mmm, 8 years since the Panasonic G1. If the mirrorless cameras were so good in every respect, would the momentum not have been quicker to shift! Should they not have been surpassing the DSLR's by now! :thinking:

There have been many entry level DSLRs released by Canon and Nikon in the last 8 years, and both those companies have sold many thousands over that time. Surely the entry level / new user crowd is what the mirrorless manufacturers, with the help of the media, should be hoovering up rather than Pro's like yourself. Yet DSLR's still outsell mirrorless after 8 years or so. :thinking: Despite all the moving parts. ;) :LOL:

People should buy whatever they want, whatever is best for them. If that if that is mirrorless for you, then great. :) It may not be for everyone though. ;) Great that there are so many options for people. :)
 
redhed17 said:
Mmm, 8 years since the Panasonic G1. If the mirrorless cameras were so good in every respect, would the momentum not have been quicker to shift! Should they not have been surpassing the DSLR's by now! :thinking:

There have been many entry level DSLRs released by Canon and Nikon in the last 8 years, and both those companies have sold many thousands over that time. Surely the entry level / new user crowd is what the mirrorless manufacturers, with the help of the media, should be hoovering up rather than Pro's like yourself. Yet DSLR's still outsell mirrorless after 8 years or so. :thinking: Despite all the moving parts. ;) :LOL:

People should buy whatever they want, whatever is best for them. If that if that is mirrorless for you, then great. :) It may not be for everyone though. ;) Great that there are so many options for people. :)
Click to expand...
But then again the pro would have probably never purchased the G1 anyway. The technology was never mature enough but all you need to do is look at where things are now. The new Sony models are superb. With all that mirror less technology can offer now surely the DSLR days are numbered.
It's a tool for me, if it does the job great. DSLR is bulky, heavy, slow and in the case of Nikon sadly quite unreliable with the number of recalls.
Horses for courses - no point labouring the point ;)
 
redhed17 said:
The latest rumoured spec. Read more @ Nikon Rumors
  • 45-46MP full frame CMOS sensor
  • Improved low and high ISO
  • New and improved version of SnapBridge
  • No built-in GPS
  • Tiltable LCD touchscreen just like the D750 and D500
  • Memory card slots: one SD and one XQD
  • AF system from the D5
  • No built-in flash (from the teaser picture)
  • Back illuminated buttons (from leaked pictures)
  • Joystick selector (from leaked pictures)
  • Built-in Bluetooth and Wi-Fi (from leaked pictures)
  • 8K time-lapse video capabilities (from promo video)
  • The D850 will be on display at the Photo+ Expo in October
  • 4k UHD video in FX format (with no crop)
  • No EVF or hybrid viewfinder
  • Fast fps (8fps or more)
  • New: the D850 LCD will have twice the resolution of the D810
  • New: slo-mo full HD 120fps video
  • New: the SD slot will support UHS-II
  • New: improved LiveView split-screen display
  • New: improved silent shooting mode
  • New: improved battery life
  • New: lighter than the D810
There's suddenly talk of a cut down D5. :confused:
And not a hybrid EVF/OVF, but something 'special'. Mmm, intriguing. :thinking:
Click to expand...
I can't help but think Nikon have not released the spec on purpose now, to raise speculation and get people talking. They've clearly got a working model so I would have thought they know what the specs are going to be.
 
Last edited:
MartinH32 said:
But then again the pro would have probably never purchased the G1 anyway. The technology was never mature enough but all you need to do is look at where things are now. The new Sony models are superb. With all that mirror less technology can offer now surely the DSLR days are numbered.
It's a tool for me, if it does the job great. DSLR is bulky, heavy, slow and in the case of Nikon sadly quite unreliable with the number of recalls.
Horses for courses - no point labouring the point ;)
Click to expand...
MartinH32 said:
Like everything else, it takes momentum before things move, not everyone can immediately switch cameras when a new one comes, doesn't mean to say if the option is available they wouldn't choose it. Why would you potentially purchase something with more moving parts, more potential to fail and less life expectancy when there is another option. I'm seriously considering selling all my Nikon kit and making the switch to Sony (or would when the lenses availability is more mature). I'm a wedding tog and both my D750's which I've had about two and half years are nearing 100,000 actuations which means changing them at some point in the not too distant future. I for one and I suspect many others would like not to have to switch cameras every four years or so.
Click to expand...
I understand you as you are a pro on changing cameras every four years not being ideal.
If i had to wait 4 months it would be a killer lol
 
Over the last 4 years 2013-16 mirrorless sales have increased year on year as you might expect but DSLR sales have increased year on year also and by a bigger margin.

Ever since mirrorless has been out people have been saying that the DSLR is dead but it's not happening and unless Nikon and Canon start taking mirrorless seriously and bringing out models that compete with their best bodies at the moment DSLRs will be around for a lot longer. Sony aren't going to be able to do it by themselves.

All the mirrorless manufacturers have cameras with great tech in them but not everybody wants it. Only Sony have tried to compete across the whole DSLR sector, now with the A9. Sony have the camera bodies but don't have the lenses. Yet.

Forget about using adaptors, that isn't a viable option for many. I've read about AF speed being 80% of native lens speed etc. Why would people change systems to get 80% of what they have now? For landscape photographer and some others maybe not such an issue but for people like myself it's a non starter.

When Sony get the lenses in place and maybe drop the tech from the A9 into lower price bodies then perhaps people like myself will start to take notice. In the high end of camera bodies such as the D5 and 1DX MKII, with the exception of the A9 there isn't any other option.

I have a friend with a Panasonic. Great camera and produces lovely images. She has now started to get into wildlife a bit more and feels like throwing her Panasonic in the river because it simply cannot produce the goods compared to her friends D500. So she will probably be buying a D500 shortly. She's is prepared to put up with the increase in size to get the performance.
 
Gaz J said:
Over the last 4 years 2013-16 mirrorless sales have increased year on year as you might expect but DSLR sales have increased year on year also and by a bigger margin.
Click to expand...
I don't know which planet you're referring to, but that's not the case here on Earth.

Here are the recent annual sales volumes, courtesy of Thom Hogan at dslrbodies.com. (ILC = Interchangeable Lens Camera)

bythom_cipa_2016_ilc_med.jpeg


Full article: http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-2017-news/february-2017-nikon-news/2016-ilc-shipments.html
 
Too many photo enthusiasts look at the mirrorless/DSLR debate from their perspective. I know people who know nothing about cameras but want something 'better' than a phone or pocket compact and they almost always opt for an entry level DSLR in my experience. The ones who don't go for a bridge camera. That's because they don't want to 'get into photography', they want to take better pictures, and think a 'better' camera will do that for them. And they want it as cheaply as possible.

I think there are two main reasons they don't go for a mirrorless option. Firstly they associate DSLRs with what professionals use, so they must be good cameras. Secondly the price of an entry level DSLR gets them something that looks better value than a mirrorless camera for the same price (and it has a camera manufacturer's name on it rather than that of an electronics firm - nobody would buy a Fuji because they've never heard of them!) . Because they know nothing about cameras, even when explained to them, the option of a mirrorless camera wouldn't mean anything. Even though they will be buying into an interchangeable lens system they will almost certainly never use anything other than the kit lens.

To this market mirrorless looks like either a very expensive compact (micro four thirds) or an overpriced DSLR (Sony/Fuji).
 
Gaz J said:
Probably the same planet that you're on mate.

http://www.canonrumors.com/infographic-camera-industry-sales-facts-for-2016/
Click to expand...

That lensvid infographic shows that DSLR's went from 13 million in 2013 to 8.2 million in 2016. Mirrorless stayed about level at just over 3 million.

It also shows that in terms of market share, yes, both mirrorless and DSLR's increased year on year. That's not the same as sales / production volume.

Clearly, the data sources used in the two analyses were different, but both show that DSLR sales are declining, in a shrinking camera market.
 
snerkler said:
I can't help but think Nikon have not released the spec on purpose now, to raise speculation and get people talking. They've clearly got a working model so I would have thought they know what the specs are going to be.
Click to expand...
I said earlier, I think it is dangerous strategy, because unless they are managing the leaked information, and how can they manage everything, if speculation goes off in wild directions the truth could turn out to be underwhelming and a disappointment. :thinking: :rolleyes:
 
Gaz J said:
Over the last 4 years 2013-16 mirrorless sales have increased year on year as you might expect but DSLR sales have increased year on year also and by a bigger margin.

.
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Gaz J said:
Probably the same planet that you're on mate.

http://www.canonrumors.com/infographic-camera-industry-sales-facts-for-2016/
Click to expand...

Am I missing something here? That sales chart shows camera manufacturing and sales declining not increasing which confirms what Stewart was saying.
 
snerkler said:
Am I missing something here? That sales chart shows camera manufacturing and sales declining not increasing which confirms what Stewart was saying.
Click to expand...

I think there may have been some confusion reading the statistics, but yes overall sales are definitely down like Stuart said. The number of DSLR sales per year have decreased but their overall percentage of the total market sales has increased year on year. Looking at those statistics DSLR sales have reduced from 13 million to 8 million but their overall share of the total number of cameras sold has increased from 21% to 34%, mainly because compact camera sales have dropped massively because of camera phones. that's statistics for you, depending on the side you are on you could say either DSLR sales are down year on year or the sales market share for DSLR has increased year on year (2013 1 in 5 cameras sold was a DSLR, now 1 in 3 cameras sold is a DSLR) just in a decreasing camera sales market.
 
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