Nikon D800......

Well I guess the answer is save up more money and buy a D4s. The D800 autofocus hasn't really given me any problems with autofocus and seems snappy with the 200 f/2.
 
If you shoot sports, yes... the D800 is not an ideal tool for the job. A D3s or D4s would be a batter proposition. The D800 is adequate in that area.. it's not as if it's terrible, but is outclassed by the other two. Other factors come into play too.. the low FPS and small buffer of the D800 will cause problems with sports too.

It's just not the best tool for that particular job.
 
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Same old argument with the D700/D3, people thought it was the same camera under the skin and having the EXACT same AF system that it should perform just as good, in reality and in the field it just didn't, the D3 was just that bit better and more responsive.
 
But I wonder technically why that is? As far as I know, the AF process is all entirely run by the multicam processor using pentaprisms to collect the light on the AF sensors, its not a function of the expeed or the image sensor.

Just curious if anyone actually has a technical explanation of why its like it is...
 
Basically, I need to be able to get back what I loose from DX without spending more money on long glass, therefore going from 12mp DX to 12mp FX doesn't cut it...
 
desantnik said:
But I wonder technically why that is? As far as I know, the AF process is all entirely run by the multicam processor using pentaprisms to collect the light on the AF sensors, its not a function of the expeed or the image sensor.

Just curious if anyone actually has a technical explanation of why its like it is...
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No idea why, it just is. you would think the D800 AF had thE potential to be as good as the D4 but in reality it isn't even as good as the D300/300S when it comes to specifically shooting sports.
 
Well, I'm just glad to see someone like you Gary agreeing with me :D

Thought I'd lost my touch!
 
Gary Coyle said:
No idea why, it just is. you would think the D800 AF had thE potential to be as good as the D4 but in reality it isn't even as good as the D300/300S when it comes to specifically shooting sports.
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<-- bites lip ;)
 
What pro sports shooters are using the D800? Surely if some are and getting shots and making a living then technically anyone could?
 
I only know of one guy in my field who's got them... how long he keeps hold of them remains to be seen!
 
colda said:
<-- bites lip ;)
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Bite it all you want Darren, the D800 AF is crap for field sports, it was never built to satisfy that need from photographers and neither does it.

Ill put my money where my mouth is, ill post you a disc with the last game i covered containing every single image captured including all the continuous file names (approx 300 images) as proof i haven't just chosen the best ones all EXIF will remain intact, this is the game i covered http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p624094515 or http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p955897307 all those images were shot with 2 x D3S and a Nikon 400mm f/2.8 with a 1.4x extender attached and a 70-200mm f/2.8 on the second body, images were shot between ISO 4000-12,800, you do the exact same with approx 500 images from your last game shot under similar conditions and we will check to see who needs to keep biting their lip, ill also wager £1000 you dont come close to what ive got
 
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Laudrup said:
What pro sports shooters are using the D800? Surely if some are and getting shots and making a living then technically anyone could?
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NONE, i know hundreds of pro shooters and none use the D800 for shooting the actual game, the odd one like myself use it as a 3rd body for pre match and presentation stuff but never for shooting the action
 
IIRC D800 was originally touted as a studio/landscape body?
 
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Gary Coyle said:
Bite it all you want Darren, the D800 AF is crap for field sports, it was never built to satisfy that need from photographers and neither does it.

Ill put my money where my mouth is, ill post you a disc with the last game i covered containing every single image captured including all the continuous file names (approx 300 images) as proof i haven't just chosen the best ones all EXIF will remain intact, this is the game i covered http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p624094515 or http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p955897307 all those images were shot with 2 x D3S and a Nikon 400mm f/2.8 with a 1.4x extender attached and a 70-200mm f/2.8 on the second body, images were shot between ISO 4000-12,800, you do the exact same with approx 500 images from your last game shot under similar conditions and we will check to see who needs to keep biting their lip, ill also wager £1000 you dont come close to what ive got
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ok, I've dug out the last evening game that I shot, it's not my best work, I only shot the game because my son is a mad villa fan so he was running around with our D3 and I took the opportunity to compare the D800E, D3X and a Fuji S5 for such work, my eye wasn't on the game as it would have been if I had been shooting for the club (or an agency), so please excuse the below par results, as you'll see there are a few soft images relating to shutter speed, also the numbers are not consecutive there are a potential 146 images from which 94 are available, the 48 missing images would have been those culled in the first quick pass, as they were out of focus, incorrect exposure, clearly missed shot, bad settings, shots of my feet etc etc - I've put all the D800E shots in a folder called unprocessed and included a folder of processed images (mainly for my sanity)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s4u2fwomsqby919/5M1X6pPce1

as I bore myself with repeated saying - I agree that the D4/D3 (pref with an 'S') are the better tools for the job but the D800 is far from incapable and from personal experience of owning the a D300, D300S (and D3 and D3X for what it's worth) I would certainly be happy using the D800 over the D300(S) for sports (if i has a need for faster fps then I'd use it in DX mode with the grip), low light performance of the D300 isn't comparable to the D800
 
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Looks like pretty good shots to me you would see in the newspapers. Is there a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy about the D800 being crap at sports?
 
Don't get me wrong, if someone was asking my advice for a camera for sports then I'd not recommend the D800 but there is a difference between being not ideal for/not designed for sports (but still a usable when required) and being crap at sports

I hardly ever do sports these days, I will be doing some music festivals this year (another field where the D800 is not ideal for) and will be comfortable in my choice of camera
 
My subject is somewhat faster than a bloke in shorts... plus "acceptable sharpness" is somewhat subjective.

All I can tell you for sure, by the standards I measure my shots by, far, far, far less are meeting the grade with the D800 than on the D300/D700 with the same lens combos. Probably as much as only one fith (maybe more) coming good.

Don't get me wrong, when the AF actually nails it, the output is fantastic - truly gorgeous!
 
colda said:
ok, I've dug out the last evening game that I shot, it's not my best work, I only shot the game because my son is a mad villa fan so he was running around with our D3 and I took the opportunity to compare the D800E, D3X and a Fuji S5 for such work, my eye wasn't on the game as it would have been if I had been shooting for the club (or an agency), so please excuse the below par results, as you'll see there are a few soft images relating to shutter speed, also the numbers are not consecutive there are a potential 146 images from which 94 are available, the 48 missing images would have been those culled in the first quick pass, as they were out of focus, incorrect exposure, clearly missed shot, bad settings, shots of my feet etc etc - I've put all the D800E shots in a folder called unprocessed and included a folder of processed images (mainly for my sanity)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s4u2fwomsqby919/5M1X6pPce1

as I bore myself with repeated saying - I agree that the D4/D3 (pref with an 'S') are the better tools for the job but the D800 is far from incapable and from personal experience of owning the a D300, D300S (and D3 and D3X for what it's worth) I would certainly be happy using the D800 over the D300(S) for sports (if i has a need for faster fps then I'd use it in DX mode with the grip), low light performance of the D300 isn't comparable to the D800
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To be blunt, that lot is just web sized rubbish. this one is even OOF https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s4u2fwomsqby919/tz2LYdATPB/processed#lh:null-DCN_0580x.jpg
 
Laudrup said:
Looks like pretty good shots to me you would see in the newspapers. Is there a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy about the D800 being crap at sports?
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No, because it is crap, those shots are plain garbage and thats viewing them web sized. god only knows what they look like at full res
 
colda said:
Vlad, are you seeing any correlation between the keepers and the focus point used?
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I've not looked into that, but it could be the documented problem
 
Gary Coyle said:
To be blunt, that lot is just web sized rubbish. this one is even OOF https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s4u2fwomsqby919/tz2LYdATPB/processed#lh:null-DCN_0580x.jpg
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i really can't be arsed to send a CD and I'm not clogging my dropbox with full res images - in hindsight I'd agree, that one should not have made the cut but as I said, these were never released and not shot seriously

Got to be honest, this is boring, can you not agree that for a full time (or very serious part time) sports pro then a pro body designed for the job should be used, for the rest of us (including those that do the occasional bit of sports) then the D800 is capable

Last time I looked this was the 'Nikon D800' thread not something in the sports photography forum, personally if I were someone that managed to get to the point of owning a D800 through lots of hard work and saving and was looking forward to doing some enthusiast level of sports photography I'd hope for more constructive comments than 'it is crap' but i guess we're all entitled to our opinions
 
Gary Coyle said:
LOL, seriously, click on the camera ican which takes you to 8 "higher" res images and theyre totally rubbish
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But they have still been paid for those photos, so what difference does a tack sharp photo you could blow up and put on your wall make and a web sized one like that?
 
Heres 4 ive just picked out and uploaded at FULL RESOLUTION

Now you tell me if all the previous images linked to are rubbish in comparisson, bear in mind ive uploaded these at 4256 x 2832 which is the full resolution of the D3S

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp01.jpg

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp02.jpg

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp03.jpg

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp04.jpg

Some more

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp05.jpg

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp06.jpg

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp07.jpg

http://www.gcsportsphotos.co.uk/tp08.jpg
 
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Laudrup said:
But they have still been paid for those photos, so what difference does a tack sharp photo you could blow up and put on your wall make and a web sized one like that?
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No one is saying anything about being paid for or not. the difference is that ones from my gear are spot on, ones from the D800 arent.
 
colda said:
i really can't be arsed to send a CD and I'm not clogging my dropbox with full res images - in hindsight I'd agree, that one should not have made the cut but as I said, these were never released and not shot seriously

Got to be honest, this is boring, can you not agree that for a full time (or very serious part time) sports pro then a pro body designed for the job should be used, for the rest of us (including those that do the occasional bit of sports) then the D800 is capable

Last time I looked this was the 'Nikon D800' thread not something in the sports photography forum, personally if I were someone that managed to get to the point of owning a D800 through lots of hard work and saving and was looking forward to doing some enthusiast level of sports photography I'd hope for more constructive comments than 'it is crap' but i guess we're all entitled to our opinions
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Then why chip in in the first place with your snidey "bites lip" comment

You been proved wrong and are now on the defensive

If its boring then go away

Im not full time and nor am i a serious part time, i just care what i produce where others clearly don't.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Then why chip in in the first place with your snidey "bites lip" comment

You been proved wrong and are now on the defensive

If its boring then go away

Im not full time and nor am i a serious part time, i just care what i produce where others clearly don't.
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how have I been proved wrong? - perhaps you're too far up your own arse to see things clearly?

you're now ranting about images that are not mine (agency images provided by getty/PA) - and in their defence, having done agency work I've seen my work go from a high quality submitted image into a s***ty upsized thing on the web by the time it hits the public, but then if you were a pro then you would be aware of this

you just keep on doing what you do if it makes you happy, the rest of us will politely nod and agree - I happen to agree with you on producing high quality images, although glancing at your work may I suggest quality rather than quantity, no agency/picture desk is going to take the time to plough through that many images of a game, first thing on their submission guidelines is a 'tight edit' i.e. up to 12 strong images that represent an event (surprised that non of the hundreds of pros that you know have told you that), when you signed up and sending your shots during the game (including adding descriptions and keywords and quick crop/levels at best) then you'll experience a bit more pressure - as I said, I agree with you and like to produce good images and as such no longer shoot sports on that basis

i purposely said 'bites lip' with a wink as I'm aware we've already had a couple of rounds of this and whilst I disagree with your incessant 'crap for sports' comments I was hoping to avoid round 3

the D800 has good low light performance allowing for higher shutter speeds to be used (I remember taking a D200 a step too far when ISO1600 was needed), the AF is good (the D4S is fantastic), up to 6fps for those that need it, the D800 is not crap for sport but there are better choices out there
 
Gary Coyle said:
No one is saying anything about being paid for or not. the difference is that ones from my gear are spot on, ones from the D800 arent.
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If it is good enough for Getty, Action and PA to get paid then what do they care about 4000x2000? Colda's D800 pics don't look any worse than those agency shots that were probably taken with a D3S or Canon equivalent.
 
To be honest on both copies of the D800 I had I didn't trust them with anything that moved, even walking speed. It is the camera I always wanted but unless you were photographing still life it was as unreliable as anything I have ever used
 
When i do work for an agency i work to their spec not mine, my website isnt a client based site so none of my clients/agencies actually pick and choose from there so that puts pay to your point about "no agency/picture desk is going to take the time to plough through that many images of a game"

I do actually wire pitchside to the local, regional,national and International media so do know about being under pressure and hitting submission deadlines, again that puts pay to your point "when you signed up and sending your shots during the game (including adding descriptions and keywords and quick crop/levels at best) then you'll experience a bit more pressure" eggs and sucking them is a term which springs to mind

"i purposely said 'bites lip' with a wink as I'm aware we've already had a couple of rounds of this and whilst I disagree with your incessant 'crap for sports' comments I was hoping to avoid round 3" then if you already went 2 rounds with me why on warth if you wanted to avoid round 3 did you even bother to post at all

!I've seen my work go from a high quality submitted image into a s***ty upsized thing on the web by the time it hits the public, but then if you were a pro then you would be aware of this" But thats the exact reason i asked for full res images straight out of the camera

Anyway, lets agree to disagree but be aware if youre going to try and bait me with anymore silly "bites tongue" comments then i'll happily take the bait

Oh, by the way, and ill try to get this topic back on topic, the D800 is as ive said before one great camera
 
Gary Coyle said:
Anyway, lets agree to disagree but be aware if youre going to try and bait me with anymore silly "bites tongue" comments then i'll happily take the bait
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of course, so we can expect less of the strong sweeping 'crap for sports' statements that I feel the urge to counter?

St Georges Day - beer is calling :)
 
colda said:
of course, so we can expect less of the strong sweeping 'crap for sports' statements that I feel the urge to counter?

St Georges Day - beer is calling :)
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No, because it is LOL

Ive had a couple already, a couple of nice SC specials with angustoras bitters
 
Kinnell.
 
colda said:
of course, so we can expect less of the strong sweeping 'crap for sports' statements that I feel the urge to counter?

St Georges Day - beer is calling :)
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I agree 100% lets not call it 'crap for sports' - lets just call it inferior instead !

Hopefully, Nikon will give us a brand new model at Photokina, somewhere between the D800 - DS4. What's required is a new model capable of very high quality landscapes but also the ability to record action. Nikons current pro line-up is sadly lacking and they need to up their game.

Celebration beer - now that makes perfect sense :-)

That is all !


Sent from my iPad using Talk Photography Forums
 
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