Nikon cls question

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Fresherjohn

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Im hoping someone can help as I've just figure out theres a lot more to this strobism than you realise.
My current set up is a d40, sb-600, sb-27 and skyports. Whilst I'm loving shooting everything in manual, my impatient mates are getting fed up with standing by the flash whilst I shout up or down to adjust the flash power.
I read about the cls system doing this automatically with i-ttl, but can you still use manual mode on the flash, or do the flashes simply meter themselves without any manual options?

ideally id like a system where I could set the flashes on manual, and tinker from my shooting location.

cheers
 
You can still use manual. You can also set individual flashes to over/under expose by however many stops. You can set all this from the camera.

You can have the flashes set up any way you like, the system is very versatile. You could have one flash on manual, another on auto and another on auto with -1 exposure and adjust all of this from the camera.
 
Fresherjohn said:
ideally id like a system where I could set the flashes on manual, and tinker from my shooting location.

cheers
Click to expand...

CLS does that but you need CLS compatible flashes. SB-600, 800 and 900's are the only flashes that will work in line with CLS.

A great book on the ins, outs, tips and techniques to the CLS system is The Hot Shoe Diaries. A must have book :D

Fresherjohn said:
Whilst I'm loving shooting everything in manual, my impatient mates are getting fed up with standing by the flash whilst I shout up or down to adjust the flash power.
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Askin more patient mates would be a little lighter on the wallet :lol:
 
plus the D40 doesn't support cls, the popup flash can not be a master. So you'll either need to use a cls compatable flash in the hotshoe as master to trigger the others, or use an SU-800
 
I posted on this thread.. but i guess it got lost when TP fell over :S

Basically.. I have to change the manual settings via the menu on my d200.. its a few keypresses and i'm undecided as to whether i'd prefer to just do it on the flashes, *** its an advantage to many having it remote..

I'll have your skyports ;)
 
Not to forget as well that CLS is limited in that you have to have line of sight to the flashes for them to go off as it uses light to communicate between the master and the slaves and also in a very light environment or when you want to use them further than a couple of meters away it can become a bit of a pain in the ass, I would stick to the skyports personally.
 
thanks all.
I spotted the D40x wasnt compatible with cls but was considering an upgrade as selling the D40x and skyports would almost buy a second hand D200.
The standard type problem I have arose again yesterday, when I was out snapping climbers. I set the flash on a rock near the floor and climbed on top of a boulder. Climbing up and down would have been quite tricky and a real pain in the a$$.
now I just need to justify the difference between selling the sb-27 and buying a sb-800 :)
 
rotherad said:
Not to forget as well that CLS is limited in that you have to have line of sight to the flashes for them to go off as it uses light to communicate between the master and the slaves and also in a very light environment or when you want to use them further than a couple of meters away it can become a bit of a pain in the ass, I would stick to the skyports personally.
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Non necessarily - they can be obscured from one another as soon as there is enough surface (walls, ceilings etc) to reflect the light. My SB-800 is most of the time hidden in Photek Softlighter softbox (the whole flash so it is separated from the camera by the black and reflective back of softbox which is not transparent) and turned away from the in-camera popup flash yet it triggers perfectly.
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
CLS does that but you need CLS compatible flashes. SB-600, 800 and 900's are the only flashes that will work in line with CLS.

A great book on the ins, outs, tips and techniques to the CLS system is The Hot Shoe Diaries. A must have book :D



Askin more patient mates would be a little lighter on the wallet :lol:
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Thomas,is the book good for beginners? I know very little about flash and really must learn.
 
dalex_257 said:
Non necessarily - they can be obscured from one another as soon as there is enough surface (walls, ceilings etc) to reflect the light. My SB-800 is most of the time hidden in Photek Softlighter softbox (the whole flash so it is separated from the camera by the black and reflective back of softbox which is not transparent) and turned away from the in-camera popup flash yet it triggers perfectly.
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What I meant was that it seems to be more of a voodoo art when there is not a direct line of sight, it might work one time but then not another, or at least this is the experience that I have had.
 
fracster said:
Thomas,is the book good for beginners? I know very little about flash and really must learn.
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That's a difficult one for me to answer, personally I would by it anyway.

Joe McNally is a master and there is much to be learned from his writings, whether your looking into flash photography for the first time or if you've done your teething and are looking for more solid meal.

Y'cannee go wrong with Unca Joe, he's a great writer that explains things in a very humorous and easy way.

rotherad said:
What I meant was that it seems to be more of a voodoo art when there is not a direct line of sight, it might work one time but then not another, or at least this is the experience that I have had.
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It's not a voodoo art, it just has limitations like everything else.

If you shoot Nikon gear and have CLS compatible SB units then there are times you will reach for CLS rather than radio triggers.
Being able to orchestrate light output to a variety of flashes from a single position can come in serious handy.
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
That's a difficult one for me to answer, personally I would by it anyway.

Joe McNally is a master and there is much to be learned from his writings, whether your looking into flash photography for the first time or if you've done your teething and are looking for more solid meal.

Y'cannee go wrong with Unca Joe, he's a great writer that explains things in a very humorous and easy way.
Click to expand...

I have a very basic understandling of the Nikon flash system and have used it to remore fire flashes on occasion, and I have "played" with manually adjusting the flash units,I really need to understand the other possibilities of the system.

I use a D200/300 and two SB60`s if that helps.
 
fracster said:
I have a very basic understandling of the Nikon flash system and have used it to remore fire flashes on occasion, and I have "played" with manually adjusting the flash units,I really need to understand the other possibilities of the system.

I use a D200/300 and two SB60`s if that helps.
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Then I would certainly be ordering a copy mate, it's a great read and utterly inspiring. :D
The instructional DVD's are recommendable too, the first disc being very descriptive and aimed entirely at beginners.
The second disc full of Unca Joe shooting various scenes with CLS., very inspiring and explanatory :thumbs:
 
The deed is done..........:thumbs:
 
just thought id add, you cannot set the power of individual flashes using the cls system.
you can set the power of individual groups, not individual flashguns, a big big difference.
With the built in commander mode you only have 2 groups and the onboard flash.
with a commander Unit or the sb900 you can have 3 groups, plus the commander.
So, you can only set the power of 2, 3, or 4 flashguns individually, depending which kit you buy. Yes, you can have more than one gun in each group.
You need to use the slave mode to control each gun individually. But that wont let you control them from the camera, and then you'll still be reliant on your mates!
 
yoshi said:
plus the D40 doesn't support cls, the popup flash can not be a master. So you'll either need to use a cls compatable flash in the hotshoe as master to trigger the others, or use an SU-800
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The D40x and the D40 do support CLS. They do not have wireless capability though.
 
I personally found Hotshoe diaries to be disappointing, more of a "heres what you can do with perfect subjects and locations" story, rather than a "heres how to get the most from your flash".

Do not expect any specific information on settings.

OneLight DVD is probably the best source for beginners regarding off camera flash, fantastic. You don't really need to buy a book on CLS, shed loads of info on the net.

I would also recommend not using TTL for set shots (great for close quarter event photography, but thats another thing entirely) - you'll get into bad habits. It will control too much of the exposure and once you've got some experience, it will start to annoy you because it's inconsistent. Understanding light is the fundamental key to understanding how to take great pictures - make the small effort and you'll become a much more competent photographer.

Here's a tip from the DVD:

Aperture controls flash exposure

What this means is that you can set your flash to a rough setting, e.g. 1/4, and just narrow your apeture (e.g. one stop from f5.6 to f8) to lessen the effects of the flash. Its *exactly* the same outcome as lowering the flash exposure directly (from 1/4 to 1/8), except you can do it from the camera. Perfect! :¬)

Practice estimating the rough starting point on static objects (in different lighting conditions), you'll be surprised how quickly you pick it up. Avoid TTL!

Good luck!
 
Don't forget the handy little SB-R200's too, ideal for CLS and not just macro work either.
Forget the SB-800 for CLS it is such handful to set, go for the 900 the controls are so easy to work, well worth the extra £s.
 
cant recommend the sb900s enough. just bought our third. great having 3 channels and a built in optical slave mode
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Ney bother at all Sir, I've read that sucker 5 times already :thumbs:
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You're lucky Tomas - I only got to read it twice before my wife, Mum, and then friends managed to "steal" it!! :D It's a really great read imo - one of the few very well written, amusing, instructional and inspirational books that has actually made me go out and try some new stuff. :thumbs:

I think I saw a post from you about the "H.S.D" some time ago, (pre-release,) and I'd like to belatedly thank you for bringing it to my attention. :thumbs:
 
irw1 said:
You're lucky Tomas - I only got to read it twice before my wife, Mum, and then friends managed to "steal" it!! :D It's a really great read imo - one of the few very well written, amusing, instructional and inspirational books that has actually made me go out and try some new stuff. :thumbs:

I think I saw a post from you about the "H.S.D" some time ago, (pre-release,) and I'd like to belatedly thank you for bringing it to my attention. :thumbs:
Click to expand...

My pleasure mate!, You may need a second copy though if it's been pilfered! :thumbs:
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Then I would certainly be ordering a copy mate, it's a great read and utterly inspiring. :D
The instructional DVD's are recommendable too, the first disc being very descriptive and aimed entirely at beginners.
The second disc full of Unca Joe shooting various scenes with CLS., very inspiring and explanatory :thumbs:
Click to expand...


Tomas he also has a few taster videos on you tube HERE :thumbs:
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Ney bother at all Sir, I've read that sucker 5 times already :thumbs:
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Just 5? :lol:

Now that I've (partially) converted to cls I'm having to start reading all over again to see what I can get up to with it :naughty:

Glad I bought an SU-800 though, all that faffing about in the D300 menu was making me :annoyed: :lol:
 
TG. said:
Tomas he also has a few taster videos on you tube HERE :thumbs:
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Cheers mate :thumbs:

Flash In The Pan said:
Just 5? :lol:

Now that I've (partially) converted to cls I'm having to start reading all over again to see what I can get up to with it :naughty:

Glad I bought an SU-800 though, all that faffing about in the D300 menu was making me :annoyed: :lol:
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Man, I'd love an SU-800, I haven't bought anything for a long while, I'm starting to get withdrawals!
I desperatley want a ring flash after the recent shoot too!
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Man, I'd love an SU-800, I haven't bought anything for a long while, I'm starting to get withdrawals!
I desperatley want a ring flash after the recent shoot too!
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I wasn't sure about getting one, it seemed like an awful lot of money for a non-flash, but it has freed up a speedlight and is a lot easier to work quickly with than either the camera menu or the 800/900.

My "O Flash" (sounds like one of my Irish relatives, doesn't it? :lol:) arrived last week, but I haven't had a chance to try a proper shot with it. It was certainly cheap enough and the build quality is pretty decent, although I'm not 100% convinced that it's for me, but we'll see.....
 
Flash In The Pan said:
My "O Flash" (sounds like one of my Irish relatives, doesn't it? :lol:) arrived last week, but I haven't had a chance to try a proper shot with it. It was certainly cheap enough and the build quality is pretty decent, although I'm not 100% convinced that it's for me, but we'll see.....
Click to expand...

Tell me more! sounds interesting;)
 
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