Nikon CEO confirms they are working on a pro mirrorless system.

Anyway, whichever one you choose to take as gospel, the A9 sensor hasn't set the world alight. But hey, it's a Sony, so it must be the greatest, even when it's not.
I don't think any sensor will set the world alight now, at least not sensors as we know them currently. The last 12-18months of camera releases have shown that we've pretty much hit the limit of current sensor tech.
 
I don't think any sensor will set the world alight now, at least not sensors as we know them currently. The last 12-18months of camera releases have shown that we've pretty much hit the limit of current sensor tech.

On one hand, sensors have reached an incredibly high standard in terms of resolution and dynamic range etc, but for mirrorless to really work well it needs excellent on-sensor AF and global sensor switching to get rid of the mechanical shutter. Sony A9 is a big step in the right direction, and shows what might be possible, but there's still a long way to go before mirrorless beats DSLRs in every aspect - and the sensor is at the heart of it.
 
On one hand, sensors have reached an incredibly high standard in terms of resolution and dynamic range etc, but for mirrorless to really work well it needs excellent on-sensor AF and global sensor switching to get rid of the mechanical shutter. Sony A9 is a big step in the right direction, and shows what might be possible, but there's still a long way to go before mirrorless beats DSLRs in every aspect - and the sensor is at the heart of it.
Good point. I was just referring to DR, colour and noise scores really (y)
 
On one hand, sensors have reached an incredibly high standard in terms of resolution and dynamic range etc, but for mirrorless to really work well it needs excellent on-sensor AF and global sensor switching to get rid of the mechanical shutter. Sony A9 is a big step in the right direction, and shows what might be possible, but there's still a long way to go before mirrorless beats DSLRs in every aspect - and the sensor is at the heart of it.

The problem with that statement is that no camera is every going to be perfect, so individuals will think the Sony A9 is lacking something or that DSLR's are lacking something when compared with each other.
Individual needs/wants I guess.

On the subject of DR, how much more does one need?

View: https://youtu.be/pum51FpKU-M
 
The problem with that statement is that no camera is every going to be perfect, so individuals will think the Sony A9 is lacking something or that DSLR's are lacking something when compared with each other.
Individual needs/wants I guess.

On the subject of DR, how much more does one need?

View: https://youtu.be/pum51FpKU-M
Yup that review is really telling. He loves the camera a lot.

Can dslr offer full af coverage and no blackout on current dslr tech or has it reached its peak?
 
Yup that review is really telling. He loves the camera a lot.

Can dslr offer full af coverage and no blackout on current dslr tech or has it reached its peak?

I've downloaded the Frono RAW file and played about with it, for me the DR seems excellent and its pretty amazing :)
At present DSLR technology has all the AF points bunched up in the middle of the frame, I can only guess there is some form of limitation as it has been like this for some generations now. Perhaps a technical limitation?
I believe that DSLR technology reached its peak around 3-5 years ago, now we just see small jumps when it comes to revolution.... this of the DSLR like the 911, small changes with each generation.
Sony FF mirrorless is fairly new so the advancements are far bigger and noticeable, hence better marketable too...... but in reality DSLR's are still good enough... its just a matter what the end user wants.

If you want real forward innovation, Sony seems to be leading..... within 4 years they have gone from the A7 to the A9, that's some progress... I also believe they have released on average 1 new FE lens a month! :o
 
Yea its time nikon ditch dlsr and go full on mirrorless. Will the dslr crowd embrace change though?
 
I've downloaded the Frono RAW file and played about with it, for me the DR seems excellent and its pretty amazing :)
At present DSLR technology has all the AF points bunched up in the middle of the frame, I can only guess there is some form of limitation as it has been like this for some generations now. Perhaps a technical limitation?
I believe that DSLR technology reached its peak around 3-5 years ago, now we just see small jumps when it comes to revolution.... this of the DSLR like the 911, small changes with each generation.
Sony FF mirrorless is fairly new so the advancements are far bigger and noticeable, hence better marketable too...... but in reality DSLR's are still good enough... its just a matter what the end user wants.

If you want real forward innovation, Sony seems to be leading..... within 4 years they have gone from the A7 to the A9, that's some progress... I also believe they have released on average 1 new FE lens a month! :eek:
AF point spread is limited by the light reaching the AF module and as such we're reaching the limitations. The only way I can see around this is using a bigger mirror, but this would make the bodies even bigger and potentially cause more mirror slap. We're already seeing issues with having AF points too wide on DSLRs with the D500. The outer points don't work beyond f5.6 meaning that lenses like the Tamron/Sigma 150-600's don't work 'fully' as they're f6.3 at the long end and you're only limited to very few AF points. In comparison these lenses work fine on my D750 and my mate's D7200. So whilst I loved the idea of the D500's AF spread in reality it meant I couldn't use my Tamron 150-600mm how I would've have wanted so unfortunately the camera went back.
 
Yea its time nikon ditch dlsr and go full on mirrorless. Will the dslr crowd embrace change though?
Most will, as long as it is genuinely a match/superior to DSLR, meaning they have to completely eliminate rolling shutter, perceivable lag, and blackout. There are some though (like myself) that will always prefer looking through optics, and whilst I can see myself changing to mirrorless somewhere in the future the fact will remain that looking at a tiny screen will never be as nice.
 
Most will, as long as it is genuinely a match/superior to DSLR, meaning they have to completely eliminate rolling shutter, perceivable lag, and blackout. There are some though (like myself) that will always prefer looking through optics, and whilst I can see myself changing to mirrorless somewhere in the future the fact will remain that looking at a tiny screen will never be as nice.
Don't think ovf is possible on a mirrorless camera so that you may have to put up with?
 
Yea its time nikon ditch dlsr and go full on mirrorless. Will the dslr crowd embrace change though?

I doubt it but they may get forced to if it follows screen technology, like when CRT tech made way for cheaper Plasma tech, which now has made way for even cheaper LCD tech..... for IQ alone CRT was unbeatable (if they made a 1080p line screen), Plasma was great and still better than LCD for certain aspects of IQ..... especially the Pioneer Kuro and the final Panasonic THX models.

Another way to look at it and to put to the DSLR professionals, what are the remaining advantages of the DSLR now that the Sony A9 has quashed most if not all of the negatives people go on about when comparing it to a good old DSLR?
People love to complain but Sony has addressed those complaints and will continue to do so........ if the Sony A9 is still not good enough for the hardcore professional crowd, fear not the A9II will be better! Sony is moving in the right direction ;)
One day there will be no more negatives to go on about, it'll just be nit-picking for the sake of it

So back on topic, hurry up Nikon, competition is good for everybody :D
 
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Most will, as long as it is genuinely a match/superior to DSLR, meaning they have to completely eliminate rolling shutter, perceivable lag, and blackout. There are some though (like myself) that will always prefer looking through optics, and whilst I can see myself changing to mirrorless somewhere in the future the fact will remain that looking at a tiny screen will never be as nice.
There will always be people who prefer OVF over EVF, that's not a bad thing, choice is good.
 
Don't think ovf is possible on a mirrorless camera so that you may have to put up with?
Yes, that's what I meant. I will probably have to go that way and will 'put up with it' ;) I'm not averse to using EVF's, I had several cameras with EVF and currently own one (EM1), but I prefer OVF.
 
It's clear some DSLR users still don't 'get' mirrorless.:p

IMHO 'pro' mirrorless doesn't need to be FF; why we are still referring to that particular line in the sand as 'full frame' baffles me.

There are loads of advantages to a mirrorless system, and using fast full frame lenses makes them less fun.

An APSC body with fast lenses designed for the format is a much nicer proposition than FF (M43 is lovely but a bit too far for ultimate IQ)
Like the Fuji XT2 you mean ;)
 
Like the Fuji XT2 you mean ;)
I'd be happy to switch back to Fuji now the XT2 is out, if only they'd ditch the X-trans sensor.
 
So back on topic, hurry up Nikon, competition is good for everybody

I don't think, for those people on here, that there is anything else the Sony mirrorless bodies need to do in order to deliver the results required. Being realistic, the A7ii generation is more than enough camera for weddings, portraits, landscapes, walkabout, holidays, family etc which I would argue accounts for 99.9% of the people in the Sony thread. Whilst I understand that there is always a desire, led by GAS, to buy the latest camera is there really any genuine need for what it offers?

@jonneymendoza You're talking about buying the 100-400G to shoot motorsport but, as far as I'm aware, you've always been a spectator in the stands rather than an affiliated photographer in the pit lane so is it really impossible for you to get equally successful shots for yourself using the 70-200 F4 and cropping?

@Riz_Guru You're considering shooting some weddings again but not as your primary career (at the moment) so again, do you really need to invest £5-10k on the A9 and G Master lenses if you're second shooting or only covering a few weddings a year?

I bought an A7 on the Amazon Prime deal yesterday because, for £600, it's an excellent deal and allows me to try it out and compare it to what I shoot now. I don't need Full Frame but haven't shot FF since I sold off my Canon 5D/lenses when I took a break from shooting weddings/portraits a few years ago so it will be interesting to see how much better the results are now.

I'm not having a go at anyone's decisions, it's none of my business, but I do think some reality in the actual requirements we all have might make us stop posting about what future tech might bring us or how one sensor is 0.1% better than another according to a DxO graph and just go out and shoot some photographs!
 
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Most will, as long as it is genuinely a match/superior to DSLR, meaning they have to completely eliminate rolling shutter, perceivable lag, and blackout. There are some though (like myself) that will always prefer looking through optics, and whilst I can see myself changing to mirrorless somewhere in the future the fact will remain that looking at a tiny screen will never be as nice.

The screen may be tiny compared to your 52" Samsung in the living room but a short distance from your eye as a VF it's far from tiny. The other stuff about being "nice" is subjective and personal but I think we're probably at the point even now when you have to be a real flat earther to deny there aren't any improvements over OVF's with the better EVF's we have today and they're only going to get better with future itineration's whereas OVF's can't really move forward.
 
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Why does the body have to be thinner? Why not keep it the same size? It doesn't have to be smaller because it can be.

As for lenses for video. I don't know any photographers who use video other than from a "lets see what this does" attitude.

If you're a pro sports photographer then you'll probably be using a monopod with the big lenses so again I would argue that saving a pound here and there is of no importance.

Walking five miles with a 500, body, tripod, gimbal then maybe, depending on your age and fitness level but being macho doesn't come into it. I've just knocked 2 kilos off my carry weight in these circumstances by changing to a ball head and lighter tripod. If I was really desperate to reduce weight I would buy the MkII version of the 500 but I wouldn't want a smaller body, they just don't fit my hands properly.

Fuji's approach may fulfil your needs but it a long way short of fulfilling all needs.

....I agree. If a mirrorless body is made too small it doesn't physically handle well when mounted on bigger lenses. Also, for the professional (and serious amateur) market, tough and weatherproof construction is essential.

I shoot Canon and own a mirrorless EOS M5, a 7D Mark II, and recently a 5D Mark IV [call me a 'gear slut', I don't care]. The M5 has a Canon lens mount adapter which means it can be mounted on any EF lens - Mine lives on my Canon 100mm L Macro and I have tried it on my 100-400mm L II but it physically handles very badly on that larger lens. It would even mount on my 500mm F/4L II but that ain't gonna happen - Need I say more!

The RAW image quality between the M5 and 7D2 is identical to the naked eye and they use the same type of Canon's Dual Pixel sensor. The mirrorless M5 has some features which I would love to see introduced into a future 7D version - A '7DM' and there is surely no reason why there could not be a 5DM or even 1DM one day. The DM versions could be slightly smaller but not as small as the M5 if they want to meet the demands of 'professional' use.

So what I am saying applies to both Canon and Nikon. We can only speculate but Canon at least, due to their mirrorless EOS M5, seem to be indicating that they are exploring and developing mirrorless versions of their D-SLR bodies and I personally welcome advances in technology as long as the photographer still has complete control.

M5_7D2_0536.jpg
 
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I don't think, for those people on here, that there is anything else the Sony mirrorless bodies need to do in order to deliver the results required. Being realistic, the A7ii generation is more than enough camera for weddings, portraits, landscapes, walkabout, holidays, family etc which I would argue accounts for 99.9% of the people in the Sony thread. Whilst I understand that there is always a desire, led by GAS, to buy the latest camera is there really any genuine need for what it offers?

@jonneymendoza You're talking about buying the 100-400G to shoot motorsport but, as far as I'm aware, you've always been a spectator in the stands rather than an affiliated photographer in the pit lane so is it really impossible for you to get equally successful shots for yourself using the 70-200 F4 and cropping?

@Riz_Guru You're considering shooting some weddings again but not as your primary career (at the moment) so again, do you really need to invest £5-10k on the A9 and G Master lenses if you're second shooting or only covering a few weddings a year?

I bought an A7 on the Amazon Prime deal yesterday because, for £600, it's an excellent deal and allows me to try it out and compare it to what I shoot now. I don't need Full Frame but haven't shot FF since I sold off my Canon 5D/lenses when I took a break from shooting weddings/portraits a few years ago so it will interesting to see how much better the results are now.

Yes, you could use slower and clumsy DSLR/A7 bodies to shoot many different kinds of photography, you can even use film camera's if you really wanted to, it comes down to what the individual wants really, this can be a combination of needs and wants.
The first and second generation A7 bodies were not quite good enough when comparing them to the tried and trusted DSLR, the Fuji XT-2 is a far quicker/easier body when compared to the A7's but lacks the FF advantages... one of the reasons I went back to Sony.

Do I need to invest £5-10k, does anybody really need to invest anything when a iPhone/Compact can take great photos? Again it comes down to individuals really, I have already done this once before with the Sony A7RII's, I regret moving away from Sony to Fuji, should have kept the lenses and waited for the Sony A9.

The Sony A9 for me is the turning point for Sony, the lightening quick AF, 20fps, silent shooting, Eye-AF...... for me these features make the art of taking a photo easier and quicker especially with Eye-AF (AF-C)...... when doing paid work its vital for me to nail every shot with less headache.

The Sony A7 paired with the 35mm f2.8 and 55mm f1.8 is a great setup, and small compared to DSLR equivalents, hopefully you'll be ok with the slow AF. IQ is excellent. :) However I would never use it for paid work, but that's just mean, doesn't mean the body is inadequate at all. I wouldn't even consider the A7II for paid work although I have seen some photographers use these without issues.

I think it'll be great to see Nikon enter the FF mirrorless market..... can't wait :D
 
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....I agree. If a mirrorless body is made too small it doesn't physically handle well when mounted on bigger lenses. Also, for the professional (and serious amateur) market, tough and weatherproof construction is essential.

The M5 has a Canon lens mount adapter which means it can be mounted on any EF lens - Mine lives on my Canon 100mm L Macro and I have tried it on my 100-400mm L II but it physically handles very badly on that larger lens. It would even mount on my 500mm F/4L II but that ain't gonna happen - Need I say more!

There's no reason why a Canon compact mirrorless camera can't be weather sealed and able to stand up to the hard knocks of professional use unless Canon refuse to make it because it'll take sales from their DSLR's.

You may think your 7D handles better with your 500mm lens on it but it can never slim down to the bulk of your mirrorless camera for the days you just want a quality camera with a 24/35/50mm f1.8 mounted.
 
I bought an A7 on the Amazon Prime deal yesterday because, for £600, it's an excellent deal and allows me to try it out and compare it to what I shoot now. I don't need Full Frame but haven't shot FF since I sold off my Canon 5D/lenses when I took a break from shooting weddings/portraits a few years ago so it will be interesting to see how much better the results are now.

YaY!

:D

I hope you like it :D
 
Yes, you could use slower and clumsy DSLR/A7 bodies to shoot many different kinds of photography, you can even use film camera's if you really wanted to, it comes down to what the individual wants really, this can be a combination of needs and wants.
The first and second generation A7 bodies were not quite good enough when comparing them to the tried and trusted DSLR, the Fuji XT-2 is a far quicker/easier body when compared to the A7's but lacks the FF advantages... one of the reasons I went back to Sony.

Do I need to invest £5-10k, does anybody really need to invest anything when a iPhone/Compact can take great photos? Again it comes down to individuals really, I have already done this once before with the Sony A7RII's, I regret moving away from Sony to Fuji, should have kept the lenses and waited for the Sony A9.

The Sony A9 for me is the turning point for Sony, the lightening quick AF, 20fps, silent shooting, Eye-AF...... for me these features make the art of taking a photo easier and quicker especially with Eye-AF (AF-C)...... when doing paid work its vital for me to nail every shot with less headache.

The Sony A7 paired with the 35mm f2.8 and 55mm f1.8 is a great setup, and small compared to DSLR equivalents, hopefully you'll be ok with the slow AF. IQ is excellent. :) However I would never use it for paid work, but that's just mean, doesn't mean the body is inadequate at all. I wouldn't even consider the A7II for paid work although I have seen some photographers use these without issues.

Those 'slower' and 'more clumsy' DSLRs are still the staple diet of the large majority of actual jobbing photographers though so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them because they don't have the shiny new Sony badge. Like you say, apart from the most extreme situations, anything can be shot with any camera with varying results. I read an article a few weeks ago about a photographer shooting F1 with a 100 year old view camera. He may not have delivered the same achingly sharp crisp results at 1/16,000th of a second but his results certainly stood out from the rest!

I think the iphone argument is too extreme. There's no denying that cameraphones lead all markets in utilisation and, in comparison, mirrorless sales are a drop in the ocean compared to them but everything has its' place and its' demands. I do think that you may be putting too much emphasis on the kit and not enough on your own skill/confidence as a photographer. it's easy to get drawn into the idea that without the latest technology like eye AF you simply won't deliver results but that's clearly not true otherwise only a tiny proportion of photographers would ever be successful.

The fact that you wouldn't consider using an A7ii for paid work is frankly ridiculous and maybe says more about your own confidence than the kit. You're one of the leading backers of mirrorless here and regularly share articles/blogs from photographers who have moved over from CaNikon to Sony. Are you really suggesting that they will only be able to work if they buy the A9 and an array of G Master lenses?
 
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Those 'slower' and 'more clumsy' DSLRs are still the staple diet of the large majority of actual jobbing photographers though so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them because they don't have the shiny new Sony badge. Like you say, apart from the most extreme situations, anything can be shot with any camera with varying results. I read an article a few weeks ago about a photographer shooting F1 with a 100 year old view camera. He may not have delivered the same achingly sharp crisp results at 1/16,000th of a second but his results certainly stood out from the rest!

I think the iphone argument is too extreme. There's no denying that cameraphones lead all markets in utilisation and, in comparison, mirrorless sales are a drop in the ocean compared to them but everything has its' place and its' demands. I do think that you may be putting too much emphasis on the kit and not enough on your own skill/confidence as a photographer. it's easy to get drawn into the idea that without the latest technology like eye AF you simply won't deliver results but that's clearly not true otherwise only a tiny proportion of photographers would ever be successful.

The fact that you wouldn't consider using an A7ii for paid work is frankly ridiculous and maybe says more about your own confidence than the kit. You're one of the leading backers of mirrorless here and regularly share articles/blogs from photographers who have moved over from CaNikon to Sony. Are you really suggesting that they will only be able to work if they buy the A9 and an array of G Master lenses?

Ok perhaps the iPhone argument is too extreme but its possible to delivery great results which has been proven online may times by great photographers.
Confidence aside, kit can be very important to certain photographers, for example you have two cameras.... camera A does something better then camera B and you can afford camera A then why on earth would buy you camera B?
Some people in this world are make do'er's, they are quite happy with a 100 year old camera and what it produces, fair play to them.... however others want the latest and greatest that genuinely add benefit to their lives/work etc....... I guess its forward progress.

I am pro-mirrorless yes but that's not to say Nikon won't make a better mirrorless system compared to Sony, anything is possible.

I find the A7II too slow in terms of AF, yes I could shoot a wedding but why bother when there is something better out there to make the job easier?

However one must accept that DSLR's future is numbered, maybe not now, or in 5 years time but technology will move on and the DSLR will die just like the SLR did.... with only the minority still using the system and raving on about how good 35mm film is blah blah blah. If it was that good professionals would still be using them! :D
 
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I doubt it but they may get forced to if it follows screen technology, like when CRT tech made way for cheaper Plasma tech, which now has made way for even cheaper LCD tech..... for IQ alone CRT was unbeatable (if they made a 1080p line screen), Plasma was great and still better than LCD for certain aspects of IQ..... especially the Pioneer Kuro and the final Panasonic THX models.

Another way to look at it and to put to the DSLR professionals, what are the remaining advantages of the DSLR now that the Sony A9 has quashed most if not all of the negatives people go on about when comparing it to a good old DSLR?
People love to complain but Sony has addressed those complaints and will continue to do so........ if the Sony A9 is still not good enough for the hardcore professional crowd, fear not the A9II will be better! Sony is moving in the right direction ;)
One day there will be no more negatives to go on about, it'll just be nit-picking for the sake of it

So back on topic, hurry up Nikon, competition is good for everybody :D


There will always be a negative in a camera for certain photographers.

Headline grabbing specs are all well and good but no manufacturer makes a deal out of what they haven't got.

If Sony announced the A9 with 20 FPS but only 10 with an adaptor, 12 if you shoot uncompressed RAW and 5 with a flash but only with the mechanical shutter it wouldn't seem quite as impressive.

Similarly other manufacturers such as Canon Nikon etc. Photographers ask the question why doesn't it have this or that and the manufacturers give us what they want us to have. They obviously look at reviews and get feedback from people. Never give them what they want.

I'm sure I will buy a mirrorless at some point, sooner perhaps when I shift my 1DX but only for something to take on holiday with me.
 
Ok perhaps the iPhone argument is too extreme but its possible to delivery great results which has been proven online may times by great photographers.
Confidence aside, kit can be very important to certain photographers, for example you have two cameras.... camera A does something better then camera B and you have afford camera A then why on earth would buy camera B?
Some people in this world are make do'er's, they are quite happy with a 100 year old camera and what it produces, fair play to them.... however others want the latest and greatest that genuinely add benefit to their lives/work etc....... I guess its collect technological progress.

I am pro-mirrorless yes but that's not to say Nikon won't make a better mirrorless system compared to Sony, anything is possible.
However one must accept that DSLR's future is numbered, maybe not now, or in 5 years time but technology will move on and the DSLR will die just like the SLR did.... with only the minoring still using the system and raving on about how good 35mm film is blah blah blah. If it was that good professionals would still be using them! :D

Some professionals are still using film and the SLR didn't die, they just changed the film for a digital sensor...

I'm not sure I agree 100% with your suggestion about make 'do-ers' though. There will always be people that can't or won't pay £4.5k for a new camera. Maybe because they don't get enough return on their investment so, from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense or maybe because they understand that the latest kit doesn't mean their results are somehow any better. It's still up to the photographer to compose a shot and make a decision on the settings etc so that won't change with a new body.

With regards to the 100 year old camera. That's as extreme as the iPhone suggestion really but I didn't see any PetaPixel articles about the hundred other photographers around him waving their archaic DSLRs so maybe that says something about creativity and uniqueness?

I understand that you clearly have a massive budget available and good luck to you but I'm just suggesting that technology isn't always a replacement for actual skill.
 
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The argument for OVF over EVF won't last much longer. With the advancements being made for VR use, screens close to the eye will be unbelievable in a year or two.

Question, has anybody actually used the Sony A9 or Lecia SL EVF? The Sony A9 EVF is 3.6k in resolution with a 60/120Hz refresh... I believe it works out to about a 28" screen in front of your eyeball. :D
 
Some professionals are still using film and the SLR didn't die, they just changed the film for a digital sensor...

I'm not sure I agree 100% with your suggestion about make 'do-ers' though. There will always be people can't or won't pay £4.5k for a new camera. Maybe because they don't get enough return on their investment so from a business perspective it doesn't make sense or maybe because they understand that the latest kit doesn't mean their results are somehow any better. It's still up to the photographer to compose a shot and make a decision on the settings etc so that won't change with a new body.

With regards to the 100 year old camera. That's as extreme as the iPhone suggestion really but I didn't see any PetaPixel articles about the hundred other photographers around him waving their archaic DSLRs so maybe that says something about creativity and uniqueness?

I understand that you clearly have a massive budget available and good luck to you but I'm just suggesting that technology isn't always a replacement for actual skill.

Agreed....... you still need to know how to use a camera no matter what it is :)
 
View media item 12824
Attach a battery grip and it balances really well

Sure does.... I think Nikon should just make a D5 mirrorless variant, keep it simple and retain the existing lens line-up....

Nikon D5m
36mp
24fps silent shutter
Dual xQD
700 AF points across 100% of the sensor
6k EVF 240fps
4k LCD Touch

Done :D
 
I don't think, for those people on here, that there is anything else the Sony mirrorless bodies need to do in order to deliver the results required. Being realistic, the A7ii generation is more than enough camera for weddings, portraits, landscapes, walkabout, holidays, family etc which I would argue accounts for 99.9% of the people in the Sony thread. Whilst I understand that there is always a desire, led by GAS, to buy the latest camera is there really any genuine need for what it offers?

@jonneymendoza You're talking about buying the 100-400G to shoot motorsport but, as far as I'm aware, you've always been a spectator in the stands rather than an affiliated photographer in the pit lane so is it really impossible for you to get equally successful shots for yourself using the 70-200 F4 and cropping?

@Riz_Guru You're considering shooting some weddings again but not as your primary career (at the moment) so again, do you really need to invest £5-10k on the A9 and G Master lenses if you're second shooting or only covering a few weddings a year?

I bought an A7 on the Amazon Prime deal yesterday because, for £600, it's an excellent deal and allows me to try it out and compare it to what I shoot now. I don't need Full Frame but haven't shot FF since I sold off my Canon 5D/lenses when I took a break from shooting weddings/portraits a few years ago so it will be interesting to see how much better the results are now.

I'm not having a go at anyone's decisions, it's none of my business, but I do think some reality in the actual requirements we all have might make us stop posting about what future tech might bring us or how one sensor is 0.1% better than another according to a DxO graph and just go out and shoot some photographs!
70-200 F4 and cropping??

I lose detail when doing so and u cant attach a 1.4x to it.

Also, if u look at some of my f1 shots, they are taken using the canon 100-400mm with a 1.4x attached for more reach.

400mm is the mimimum i need for motosport shooting.

i dont need a 400mm 2.8 prime thats definetly correct as f5.6/f8 i can live with shooting motosports during the day and happy to bump up the ISO as the sensors are great.

Anyways whats wrong with having the latest and greatest gear? its our money. We are adults and some of us can afford it whilst still providing food and a roof over our heads for us and our loved ones.

You only live once. If you enjoy using the latest and greatest gear for a nice hobby like photography, whats wrong with that?

Granted not everyone is blessed in life to even afford a point and shoot camera nevermind an A9 but you gotta embrace what your current life situation presents you.

If you have spare 10k cash, so what if @Riz_Guru blows it on photography? I bet he still providing for him and his family fine. would you rather we blow our money on drugs and alchol? something that can harm us?

Photography is such a wonderful thing to get to. It can be cheap and it can be expensive but its harmless.

Point is people got to stop with this "do u need this lens and this camera" let the man/woman enjoy and buy it. Why show envy?

Have you guys checked the 1dx2 or d5 thread? Shock horror not everyone there shoots sports professionally, Some just shoot casual with there sports pro bodies and no one bats an eye lid.

Let the man/woman enjoy it. Enjoy life.

You only have one.

Instead of bickering of what gear i or whoever may buy/own, Just discuss the gear at present, Its pros and cons. dont be envy about the person . Thats wrong mentality.
 
Anyways whats wrong with having the latest and greatest gear? its our money. We are adults and some of us can afford it whilst still providing food and a roof over our heads for us and our loved ones.

You only live once. If you enjoy using the latest and greatest gear for a nice hobby like photography, whats wrong with that?

Granted not everyone is blessed in life to even afford a point and shoot camera nevermind an A9 but you gotta embrace what your current life situation presents you.

If you have spare 10k cash, so what if @Riz_Guru blows it on photography? I bet he still providing for him and his family fine. would you rather we blow our money on drugs and alchol? something that can harm us?

Life is for living, I used to buy cars at about the rate you buy cameras. I bet I spent more :D
 
70-200 F4 and cropping??

I lose detail when doing so and u cant attach a 1.4x to it.

Also, if u look at some of my f1 shots, they are taken using the canon 100-400mm with a 1.4x attached for more reach.

400mm is the mimimum i need for motosport shooting.

i dont need a 400mm 2.8 prime thats definetly correct as f5.6/f8 i can live with shooting motosports during the day and happy to bump up the ISO as the sensors are great.

Anyways whats wrong with having the latest and greatest gear? its our money. We are adults and some of us can afford it whilst still providing food and a roof over our heads for us and our loved ones.

You only live once. If you enjoy using the latest and greatest gear for a nice hobby like photography, whats wrong with that?

Granted not everyone is blessed in life to even afford a point and shoot camera nevermind an A9 but you gotta embrace what your current life situation presents you.

If you have spare 10k cash, so what if @Riz_Guru blows it on photography? I bet he still providing for him and his family fine. would you rather we blow our money on drugs and alchol? something that can harm us?

Photography is such a wonderful thing to get to. It can be cheap and it can be expensive but its harmless.

Point is people got to stop with this "do u need this lens and this camera" let the man/woman enjoy and buy it. Why show envy?

Have you guys checked the 1dx2 or d5 thread? Shock horror not everyone there shoots sports professionally, Some just shoot casual with there sports pro bodies and no one bats an eye lid.

Let the man/woman enjoy it. Enjoy life.

You only have one.

Instead of bickering of what gear i or whoever may buy/own, Just discuss the gear at present, Its pros and cons. dont be envy about the person . Thats wrong mentality.

Like I said, good luck to you. We all like shiny new kit otherwise we wouldn't be here. I'm not bickering, just suggesting that having the latest kit (and then going on about how the A9ii will be amazing), doesn't automatically qualify someone as a pro.

We all have our vices and, like you say, we only live once but it would be nice to see the great results from the latest kit that's not possible with other gear and I'm getting sick of this idea that somehow mirrorless has to take over the world and DSLRs are dead as if it's some sort of mantra to justify the outlay. Lots of people will continue to shoot with their existing CaNikon kit (pro and amateur alike) for many reasons. Some people don't like EVFs, some don't like OVFs. Some people have lens requirements that Sony don't offer, some people don't want to sell up all of their gear to move systems. Some people are happy with the results they get with their current kit and some people chase the impossible because marketing tells them too.

Just go out and shoot instead of arguing over irrelevant DxO charts or videos from online bloggers who make their money from clicks clearly offering extreme viewpoints.
 
There's no reason why a Canon compact mirrorless camera can't be weather sealed and able to stand up to the hard knocks of professional use unless Canon refuse to make it because it'll take sales from their DSLR's.

You may think your 7D handles better with your 500mm lens on it but it can never slim down to the bulk of your mirrorless camera for the days you just want a quality camera with a 24/35/50mm f1.8 mounted.

....I don't view the Canon EOS M5 as a "compact" mirrorless camera but as a small mirrorless body within the EOS system which lacks weatherproofing. Being mirrorless it is able to be smaller but my point is that it is too small to physically handle well when mounted on telephoto lenses. It is ideal for leaving mounted on my macro lens while also carrying my other D-SLR telephoto gear in the field.

I exclusively shoot wildlife and have no use for lenses smaller than the 100mm Macro. Having said that, on rare occasions I could mount my Canon 40mm pancake lens on the M5 for snaps of friends (I don't enjoy using my iPhone for photos).

As always it's Horses-for-Courses rather than a 'one-camera-does-it-all' - There is no such thing as one perfect camera.

I don't see why the addition of a mirrorless D-SLR similar size body and build quality to either the Nikon or Canon systems would reduce these company's camera sales - They simply extend their systems and offer consumers more choices.
 
The screen may be tiny compared to your 52" Samsung in the living room but a short distance from your eye as a VF it's far from tiny. The other stuff about being "nice" is subjective and personal but I think we're probably at the point even now when you have to be a real flat earther to deny there aren't any improvements over OVF's with the better EVF's we have today and they're only going to get better with future itineration's whereas OVF's can't really move forward.
I think we're going around in circles here. I've said several times that there are advantages of EVF's that can't be denied. The simple fact is that I prefer looking through optics and that's all there is to it. It's not a debate or argument, just my preference (y)
 
I think we're going around in circles here. I've said several times that there are advantages of EVF's that can't be denied. The simple fact is that I prefer looking through optics and that's all there is to it. It's not a debate or argument, just my preference (y)

....Nail on head!!

Cameras are just tools to enable us express our vision and, like cars, secateurs, and any other tool you care to think of, the best tool is the one we each individually feel more comfortable with.

But to get back on topic, I hope the rumours are true and that Nikon (and inevitably Canon) do offer us a mirrorless 'professional' body to choose from their wonderful extensive systems. None of the other camera manufacturers come even close to the extent of the Nikon/Canon systems.
 
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