NHS best healthcare in the world?

If they are saying it's the best public healthcare system, then they are probably correct.

Coming from South Africa, I think the healthcare we received there was miles better than the NHS, but we paid through our nose for it. I wouldn't want to use the public healthcare system over there.
 
It's certainly got its failings but show me any organisation of comparable size that hasn't got issues...

I've experienced it at its worse but I've also fortunately experienced it at its best too
 
In my experience the "important" areas such as ICU and HD are excellent. Likewise some of the emergency areas.

Where it seems to be failing is what id call the front line, ie GPs. We have a 2 week wait to see anyone at our local surgery. It seems to be a staffing issue though as once seen things aren't too bad, just had a referral appointment through very quickly etc.

But it seems to vary between areas.
 
If they are saying it's the best public healthcare system, then they are probably correct.

Coming from South Africa, I think the healthcare we received there was miles better than the NHS, but we paid through our nose for it. I wouldn't want to use the public healthcare system over there.

It seems the report is assessing each country's healthcare system as a whole, not separating out private and public healthcare.

I'm not very well informed about South Africa, but I assume that the majority of peole can't access the private healthcare system. I guess if you are wealthy enough you can get top notch healthcare anywhere in the world.
 
Our GP service is brilliant - cannot fault it in any way.

I agree with Neil that the essential services are usually excellent.

My Wife has Alzheimer's and I have to say that the NHS response to this is lacking. If it wasn't for the voluntary sector we would have little provision. This service has been outsourced by the local NHS Trust and is managed by another Trust, which purports to specialise. All they have done is close down services as the local Trust had more provision than they say is the average. In other words, without any study on the need, they dumbed it down to the lowest level. Then they sought to close down the one remaining service to Young Dementia sufferers - a service that was the only support my Wife had. I took on the Trust and forced the CEO to answer on the radio, why this was closing. In the end we received a full apology. The service is now run in conjunction with the voluntary sector, which was my suggestion, and has now won a Nursing Times Award for the best service. Left to the NHS Trust, or at least the, so called, managers there would be nothing. This I believe is where the major problems lay - the management. This same CEO has just received a salary increase of £30,000!

Over the years I have become aware of a disproportiate increase in managers and admin staff in the NHS. These seem to increase when money is available and the front line decrease when the belt needs tightening.

Sorry, rant over.

Ken
 
The NHS is being cynically underfunded so it can be privatised due to 'failings'. I bet the BBC haven't reported on this report at all. Too many MPs have fingers in private healthcare pies so they're just lining their pockets. Same nonsense as with the Royal Mail. Screw it up, sell it off to your mates cheap.
 
There are seven times the number of managers to consultants in the NHS. Are they really needed?

Remember the incident about mid staffordshire where patients were drinking out of vases? Just a few years ago that was a leading hospital. What happened? Staff cuts were made, which led to not enough staff (esp nurses) for patients which is why it went the way it did. Who were responsible? Managers.
 
Any organisation of that size will have issues, but it is the best in the world.
 
There are seven times the number of managers to consultants in the NHS. Are they really needed?

This is the type of media nonsense we're subjected to. People need to remember, to delivery healthcare, there needs to be a very large non-medical workforce. They are essential, as the nursing / consultant can't work, without this backup.

It really gets on my nerves, when people talk about the admin side of the nhs and how it's somehow their fault. I agree, there is an abundance of senior managers, but the lower levels are being cut to pieces. Governments have been using admin, as a scapegoat, for too many years. I've no doubt, there is a long term plan, to effectively dismantle the nhs and farm it out, to private companies and let's guess who owns these companies.

I'm an nhs worker, of 27 years, who is seeing the system being taken apart with the very specific aim of moving to private companies who, before anyone asks, is not and will not delivery a better service.

Rant over.......... :eek:
 
they saved my life recently.. diagnosed within an hour and in theatre within 30 mins of CT scan.. and post op care was second to none.. no service is without faults and of course you hear about the horror stories but if it wasnt for them i wouldnt be here
 
I'm an nhs worker, of 27 years, who is seeing the system being taken apart with the very specific aim of moving to private companies who, before anyone asks, is not and will not delivery a better service.

Rant over.......... :eek:
I'm in the NHS too. I've seen consultants overruled by managers who don't give a crap about what's happening on the shop floor, or what's happening to doctors and other frontline staff.

If you think managers are perfect, why did the MidStaffs incident happen? Why did it go from being essentially a flagship hospital to what it was?
 
they saved my life recently.. diagnosed within an hour and in theatre within 30 mins of CT scan.. and post op care was second to none.. no service is without faults and of course you hear about the horror stories but if it wasnt for them i wouldnt be here

In 2006 I suffered 4 cardiac arrests. I went to our local GP out of hours service and was seen by a doctor who immediately asked my partner if she had her car as I was very ill and needed a cardiac specialist. An ambulance would take more than 20inutes to get to our rural town. She got me to the main hospital in 20 minutes and 20 mimutes later my heart arrested. It did so 3 more times. My left ventricle muscle had ruptured. I left hospital 108 days later on my own 2 feet.

A life changing evrnt. I had been in China a few months earlier. I would not have survived there if my arrests had occurred in some of the rural area I wad visiting.

At no time did I receive anything but brilliant service. The first 30 days were spent in the Coronary Care Unit
I was then strong enough to have an angiogram which revealed the full extent of the damage to my heart but the surgeons felt I had a chance but had to get stronger before they would operate. I was that weak. I then went on to the Cardiac Ward. I needed by pass surgery but was not well enough to go for the op. So got the job done and exercised slowly. Another World Cup time while there.

A full medical team was put in place, I was monitored and cared for the whole time and, my surgeon was a Professor of Surgery rated as one of the top surgeons. His were the omly hands that went inside my chest the day he did my op. Ensuring a lower risk of infection.

Yes the NHS did that for me and I could not have got anything better that morning. 5 days after the op I walked out the door. Did not have to pay a single penny or hand over a credit card.

The NHS is being destroyed through the death by a thousand cuts strategy. So eventually we will all have to buy private health insurance. Yet again what we all own will be sold off and we will be screwed over whilst the uber rich get even more of our money

When it happens will National Insurance be cut, Taxes lowered or credits given for monies paid? Of course not.

So be suckered in by the constant reporting of NHS failures. Mistakes happen but millions of patients get well every year and millions more will continue whilst we have a single tier NHS. When it is fully privatised then don't bleat at the costs you will face for your insurance AND how you will pay for treatments and drugs NOT covered in your insurances. Anyone living the US dream will kmow abuut that. I saw it upfront when I lived there. I had full cover but many of the staff working for me struggled.

Don't dare moan that its not what you wanted/expected because when it is gone its gone AND when the estates, equipment and buildings are sold off cheaply, remember YOU ONCE OWNED THEM. THEY ARE YOURS AND MINE NOT THE THIEVING POLITICIANS TO DO WITH AS THEIR RICH PATRONS WANT. Another cheap sell off as Royal Mail?

Beware what you wish for

Steve
 
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We most certainly do not want a system like they have in the US. That only exists to benefit the insurance companies.


Steve.
 
We most certainly do not want a system like they have in the US. That only exists to benefit the insurance companies.


Steve.


???interestingly??? if you're in the US without insurance you're likely to be charged more for the same medical care & possibly forced into bankruptcy as a result
 
One of my American friends told me that he once had a bill from the hospital with everything itemised. The little paper cups which they brought his pills to him in were charged at $15 each!!

On a slightly related note, my son is training to be a paramedic and is also a St John Ambulance volunteer and also provides back up cover for the local NHS ambulance service. A couple of years ago, on two occasions, they took American visitors to the hospital. They both got out their credit cards and asked how much they had to pay and were very surprised to be told "nothing". They were surprised even further when told that they wouldn't have to pay for hospital treatment either, other than any prescribed medication.


Steve.
 
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I'm in the NHS too. I've seen consultants overruled by managers who don't give a crap about what's happening on the shop floor, or what's happening to doctors and other frontline staff.

If you think managers are perfect, why did the MidStaffs incident happen? Why did it go from being essentially a flagship hospital to what it was?

Where did I state that managers were perfect :rolleyes:

My point is, that government and media, try to put all the blame for NHS troubles on admin staff. It's a lot more complex than that. There are a multitude of issues, that nobody seems brave enough to tackle, they'd much rather just try and patch things up because the NHS is such a politically sensitive subject.
Government departments set targets, which supposedly are an indicator of how well the system is coping, but they become so obsessed that the meeting of targets (by whatever means) has become more important that actual patients.
 
It's very hit and miss depending on diagnosis and area. My mother in law now receives excellent treatment for her dementia but it took two years to be properly diagnosed and recognised, by which time it was too late to do anything about it.
I wrecked my cruciate ligaments and the waiting list was a year, despite not being able to walk and so work, so I had to go private. Same surgeon seen next day and the operation completed the following week.
Currently my wife has a frozen shoulder that means she is in daily pain. It's taken 5 months to be diagnosed, again she's just been given pain killers and painful physio, and now been told she needs an operation but no date set, we've been told to expect another 6 months. Meanwhile it's so bad she cannot drive much and so her work is limited.

I could also tell you about my son left for 6 hours on a trolley with an inflamed appendix, having been thee since 10am. They were going to leave him until the morning as surgeons had gone home (off to private practice). We called the hospital administrator who refused to come, so called the local and national press. Only then did we get our son looked at, an emergency op within minutes as his appendix had burst by that point.
 
Where did I state that managers were perfect :rolleyes:

My point is, that government and media, try to put all the blame for NHS troubles on admin staff. It's a lot more complex than that. There are a multitude of issues, that nobody seems brave enough to tackle, they'd much rather just try and patch things up because the NHS is such a politically sensitive subject.
Government departments set targets, which supposedly are an indicator of how well the system is coping, but they become so obsessed that the meeting of targets (by whatever means) has become more important that actual patients.

I have a number of close relatives (including my sister and her husband) all of whom would totally agree with you.

From a regular outpatient point of view my contimuing treatments and clinic attendance have all beem seamless. I badly broke my leg 20 months ago necessitating a few operations on both bones and knee issues all done very well. The staff are dedicated though stressed as more and more statistics are demanded to the point on some cases that, for every clinical hour of work, up to half as much time again can be paperwork of both needed patient notes and then 'stats'. As a former management consultant turned environmental consultant I have seen similar practices in industry. In dealing with the 'discovery' of waste and inefficiencies, such processes of data collection rarely find actual waste but become 'self fulfilling prophevies' in themselves. Within the NHS the scale of the whole business, client expectation, tightened budgets, a growing range of clinical expertise etc is by its nature bound to have a band of failures. I contend, however, that given the in and out patient footfall that the success rate is far in excess of the failure rate. In the case of MidStaffs there is, and will continue to be, a range of issues to be revealed in its overall mansgement and where the pinch points are. The detail so far are not yet bottomed out IMHO.

Finally, for now, as users, are we in danger of having too high an expectation of our medical services? Sadly it may not be possible to save everyone. I am humnled by my experience I detailed in an earlier post. I will alwaus marveol at what was done for me and still is. I am passoonate about our NHS but there will be natural limits on mamy levels. Multiple conditions, age and timeliness of medical intervention alwat will be factors to successfil outcomes for patients. What we do not need is the political interventions based on social selectivity. We as consumers must always be condiderate clients. I have been to an A&E department on a Saturday night in a major city. It can resemble a war zone with a mixture of unwell people, accident victims and, sadly the bell ends that binge drimk themselves into oblivion and fight each other, pass out and bash into solid objects, have mixtures of alcohols and find themselves very unwell etc etc.

I enjoyed my early drinking years and the weekends were great, my university years were tight on money but we still had great parties. Never went to hospital ftom it.

I am not going to suggest banning Saturday nights out. What I will say is the clogging up of A&E departments by semi comatose half wits who see 50 + units of alcohol im an evening as a badge of pride is playing right into the hands of politicians with agendas who want the privatisation of as much of the public sector as they can. Not for the beterment of such service provision but purely for profiteering.

Lets face it, the privatisation of the energy sector with the promise of cheaper energy bills really worked out to the consumers benefit (not), Rail privatisation brought lower ticket prices (overall not but a few anomolies here and there but in the main matket forces on popular routes ticket prices climbed).

So, like any organisation, there will be failures but overall, and utilising my experiences from living and working in other countries, visiting on holiidays etc we in the UK are very luvky to have the best range of services in public healthcare across the world. It can be improved and in my 58 years it really has been. Don't lose it to lies and innuendo. Hidden agendas abound on the future of the NHS.

Steve
 
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Where did I state that managers were perfect :rolleyes:

My point is, that government and media, try to put all the blame for NHS troubles on admin staff. It's a lot more complex than that. There are a multitude of issues, that nobody seems brave enough to tackle, they'd much rather just try and patch things up because the NHS is such a politically sensitive subject.
Government departments set targets, which supposedly are an indicator of how well the system is coping, but they become so obsessed that the meeting of targets (by whatever means) has become more important that actual patients.
I agree that managers aren't only to blame but they are part of the reason. The govt is also complicit. Targets and limits mean that corners have to be cut somewhere. The NHS is going to have a deficit of £2bn despite having to make "efficiency savings" of £20bn. Yet the UK spends less on its healthcare than other comparable countries in Europe. Why? Why are hospitals being closed, departments are being moved and at the same time there's meant to be more "care in the community".
 
In my experience the service has been very good indeed, and I can see a GP on the same day as asking, we generally can not book appointments in advance.

I can't remember which tory said it, but she was spot on:

Its a HEALTH service not a happiness service.

It has gone way beyond it original aim of making sick people well. We spend money on what are not really illness issues for example IVF. Of course its unfortunate for those who struggle and are desperate to have children, but they are not actually sick, and I'm sure there are many other examples that could be found.
 
My only major regret with being an expat is not having the NHS!

You would not believe the grief I went through in Germany to get cover, total nightmare, and costing me upwards of 700 euros a month!
 
My only major regret with being an expat is not having the NHS!

You would not believe the grief I went through in Germany to get cover, total nightmare, and costing me upwards of 700 euros a month!

The French system is good, we pay Euro 1500 for the two of us to top up any fees to the "highest" level …… means you have more choice etc., etc.
The French State pay 60% to 75% to 100% for some problems …… the insurance company cover the shortfall with no exclusions
We are both retired - doc will see you that day or the next, any tests that day or the next and specialist appointments one or two weeks………. our actually experience
Minor ops are usually 2 weeks to a month, (again my actual experience, but it was in August when they are all on holiday), and the more serious stuff very quickly, (although thankfully we have not experienced those kind of problems)

Cultural the French system is quite "matter of fact" and some Brits perceive the French being quite "cold" in their approach.

Social charges out here are very high and the French Health system is very expensive to run
 
The problems here isn't the service, it's the beauracracy involved. Had a lot of problems getting cover because I had been out of the EU for a few years. Have ended up with an international private policy *and* the public system which is 15% of your income, on top of the income tax which is comparable to the UK.

I've had my gripes with the NHS but you should never, ever take the free at point of delivery, no questions asked healthcare for granted.

FWIW I think the fact we provide this to more or less anyone who is in the UK is something to be exceptionally proud of. I am. It's one thing we do better than anywhere in the world.
 
The problems here isn't the service, it's the beauracracy involved. Had a lot of problems getting cover because I had been out of the EU for a few years. Have ended up with an international private policy *and* the public system which is 15% of your income, on top of the income tax which is comparable to the UK.

I've had my gripes with the NHS but you should never, ever take the free at point of delivery, no questions asked healthcare for granted.

FWIW I think the fact we provide this to more or less anyone who is in the UK is something to be exceptionally proud of. I am. It's one thing we do better than anywhere in the world.

French Social Charges are 15.5% on most of your income, (including Bank interest, dividends, unearned income etc.,), payable by the individual.

The Company contribution is much higher on earnings from employment

One difference between the UK and France on the funding front is that most people pay 35% of the costs of treatment and visits to docs etc, BUT most people insure against that …….. I guess it would cost about Euros 300 to Euro 500 pa for a single person ……. everybody insures so the costs of insurance are relatively low.
So you have Public/Private funding if you like

I would think that with current demographics and the increasing costs of medical care, more and more Euros countries, that do not have a "personal" contribution system, may have to think about something similar
 
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