Next Step.... web design!

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AliB

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I currently have a website and I wanted a little bit of a redesign.

I'd like a flash site because, after all, it is the business of images I'm in and having a site that is a little more iphone and a little less bakelite and big dials with holes in them is the direction I want to move in. :cool:

All my images are hosted in a gallery and ordering system, so no work there other than bringing in the link. And my blog is also hosted elsewhere and again just needs the link bringing in.

I'm writing all the content for it to include images of the albums and acrylics etc so about 4 pages in total of content before you navigate to the gallery or blog.

You would think that would not be beyond the wit of a half decent web designer to be able to pull that together for less than a London Banker's Bonus?

Oh no............That will be £750 for the design please. :lol: You really are having a laugh......I can buy a template that looks peachy for £45!!

Oh and if madam wants SEO adding that will be £1250 on top.:cuckoo:

So lets see, you want me to part with the best part of £2K and you also want to add another £30 a month for hosting on top.

Telephone conversation went something like.......

"Did you get our quote madam?"

"Yes, yes I did thank you, and once I stopped laughing and picked myself up off the floor I decided to decline your very kind offer"

Now where's that book on web design :thinking:
 
Thanks Yv, got Dreamweaver at home and going to invest in the full blown Creative suite while my other half is still a student, I may just have to ask for his assisance (in lending me his PC) to access dreamweaver and flash editing software :)

Christmas project time :)
 
Yet if someone quoted £2K to do a wedding to someone who didn't know what was involved, they may see that as very expensive.

Horses for courses, I'm afraid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a web developer, but everyone likes to charge a premium for what they do, if they can get away with it. I know I do.;)
 
slimboy fat said:
Yet if someone quoted £2K to do a wedding to someone who didn't know what was involved, they may see that as very expensive.

Horses for courses, I'm afraid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a web developer, but everyone likes to charge a premium for what they do, if they can get away with it. I know I do.;)
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Indeed! In fact, I asked you about this in a wedding thread, and you were insistent you'd be using developers for your site ;)

I'm sure you can find a more reasonable quote if you shop around :)
 
Reading a book won't make you a web designer, just like reading a book won't make you a photographer.

Good luck though :)
 
mmmmm laughable charge

same as wedding togs that charge 2000 to 3000 grand and higher and higher.

you are paying for their skill so i keep being told...laughable i agree.
 
Surely saying you can buy a template for £45 is like saying you can buy a camera for £100 and do a wedding. Surely you of all people should be aware of the overheads that a small business faces and the need to make a decent living...
 
AliB said:
I currently have a website and I wanted a little bit of a redesign.

I'd like a flash site because, after all, it is the business of images I'm in and having a site that is a little more iphone and a little less bakelite and big dials with holes in them is the direction I want to move in. :cool:

All my images are hosted in a gallery and ordering system, so no work there other than bringing in the link. And my blog is also hosted elsewhere and again just needs the link bringing in.

I'm writing all the content for it to include images of the albums and acrylics etc so about 4 pages in total of content before you navigate to the gallery or blog.

You would think that would not be beyond the wit of a half decent web designer to be able to pull that together for less than a London Banker's Bonus?

Oh no............That will be £750 for the design please. :lol: You really are having a laugh......I can buy a template that looks peachy for £45!!

Oh and if madam wants SEO adding that will be £1250 on top.:cuckoo:

So lets see, you want me to part with the best part of £2K and you also want to add another £30 a month for hosting on top.

Telephone conversation went something like.......

"Did you get our quote madam?"

"Yes, yes I did thank you, and once I stopped laughing and picked myself up off the floor I decided to decline your very kind offer"

Now where's that book on web design :thinking:
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Get a template for 45 quid and stop moaning then

Bankers, photographers, webdesigners, accountants, nurses - all want to earn a living, and to do that a fee of £750 is quite reasonable, considering the time a job can take

To just be frank here

lets assume you want a gallery teplate , a blog template and a brochure site (all matching)... To pull this off well, with a high level of integration is a good weeks work, if not more. If you are a self employed website designer (I am) I can categorically say that if you spend more than 50% of your time actually designing , coding, editing sites, you are lucky

So 1 weeks work is 2 weeks of time. If you wanted to earn £24000 a year, you will need to earn 2000 a month. Making the very loose assumption your web guy is 100% booked up, he will need to charge you £1000
 
Some lovely replies there chaps thanks for those. :)

yes I fully understand the hypocrisy of what I'm saying and if only the web developers WERE charging £1000 I would actually be in a position to consider that.

My business is still a fledgling business and Yes Phil, I did say I would use a professional developer which is why I have just spent 6 weeks talking to them! But there is no way it's going to stand a £2K investment with absolutely NO guarantee of any return on investment. If I could drop £2K THAT easily I'd be off down to Calumet in the morning with a spring in my step and coming home with a 5DII :) or I'd be advertising in blooming Cheshire Life. :gag:

So I'm afraid that a £2K plus another £400 a year for hosting is not something I can afford to go dropping right now. There seems to be a lack in this part of the market. I don't live in an area where start up grants are available so I qualify for nothing but I still need to try to get everything up and running and if web developers could come to a "lite" package that was actually affordable I'm sure there is a market for it because I'm sitting in it.

The gallery is done and hosted elsewhere
The blog is done and hosted elsewhere

I don't need a brochure site.

None of that needs developing, just the links bringing in and the templates are already developed. Now as someone looking at that from the outside that looks like not too difficult a task that is not going to take two weeks? :)

I'm honsestly not trying to be an utter cheapskate but most of the work is already hosted, all the galleries and ordering system and blog are already done, all I actually need is a 4page site.

Time to get all independant :thinking:
 
AliB said:
Some lovely replies there chaps thanks for those. :)

yes I fully understand the hypocrisy of what I'm saying and if only the web developers WERE charging £1000 I would actually be in a position to consider that.

My business is still a fledgling business and Yes Phil, I did say I would use a professional developer which is why I have just spent 6 weeks talking to them! But there is no way it's going to stand a £2K investment with absolutely NO guarantee of any return on investment. If I could drop £2K THAT easily I'd be off down to Calumet in the morning with a spring in my step and coming home with a 5DII :) or I'd be advertising in blooming Cheshire Life. :gag:

So I'm afraid that a £2K plus another £400 a year for hosting is not something I can afford to go dropping right now. There seems to be a lack in this part of the market. I don't live in an area where start up grants are available so I qualify for nothing but I still need to try to get everything up and running and if web developers could come to a "lite" package that was actually affordable I'm sure there is a market for it because I'm sitting in it.

The gallery is done and hosted elsewhere
The blog is done and hosted elsewhere

I don't need a brochure site.

None of that needs developing, just the links bringing in and the templates are already developed. Now as someone looking at that from the outside that looks like not too difficult a task that is not going to take two weeks? :)

I'm honsestly not trying to be an utter cheapskate but most of the work is already hosted, all the galleries and ordering system and blog are already done, all I actually need is a 4page site.

Time to get all independant :thinking:
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you need a brochure site - simple as. A flash site will be more costly than a non-flash site. You want to consider how the brochure site integrates (visually) with the blog and gallery. Our hosting inst the cheapest, but certainly inst £40 a month

£40 a month buys you 1/3 a dedicated server, they most certainly will be quoting for shared hosting
 
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying at all, but can you really not find someone sub £2000 for 4 pages? I am genuinely surprised if not! :eek: ...and I'll explain why I have no idea of web development charges...

Having done some web development in uni, I took it upon myself to design my own... it's not too difficult once you've gotten your head around the basics! Still needs finishing (or tinkering with... I'm a bloke :D) but it was only a couple of days work, if that :)
 
Ask Dave Nash how much he paid for his website + hosting
 
That's the kind of timeframe I had in mind Phil :)

Believe it or not that's 3 quotes I've had so it's not just one and I've spent 6 weeks of meetings and phone calls on it too.

I've got some major advertising coming out in the new year that I wanted to get this tied in with, hence I got onto it the first week in Nov and I'm still no further forward.

I need to know that major expenditure is going to stand some chance of having a return on investment and I have my home built website already but I am quite prepared to pay to have it done but the quantum did shock me somewhat.

It's all too easy starting out to just blow the budget, I have one camera 2nd hand and a couple of lenses and flashes are 2nd hand in an attempt to keep the books somewhere near balanced. I'd love some portable lighting like quantum or profoto but I'm not spending £2K on those either :)
 
purpleclouds said:
Possibly with the software piracy aspect normally attached to those words!
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Well I wasn't really commenting on the [potential]ease of acquiring it[I wouldn't really know], but more on how complex the application is! Anyway, we digress. Back to the matter...
 
Got proper ligit software this end so no worries on that side :)

Thanks guys :)
 
Merovingian said:
Well I wasn't really commenting on the [potential]ease of acquiring it[I wouldn't really know], but more on how complex the application is! Anyway, we digress. Back to the matter...
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yea - how am I going to pay for my new studio!
 
Merovingian said:
Well I wasn't really commenting on the [potential]ease of acquiring it[I wouldn't really know], but more on how complex the application is! Anyway, we digress. Back to the matter...
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I know, but that might be how someone read it? That's all :)
 
I'm also surprised there isn't anyone quoting less than £2k for 4 pages...

I assume that with a Flash site they will be making a full site that will work for visitors without flash, so in effect it will be 2 sites, still only 8 pages though, mostly to a very close design.

What are they proposing for the SEO? I'm assuming the adding the second, non Flash, site is part of that, as generally I'd expect any decent web developer to apply best SEO practice from the start. Are they going to be running an Adwords campaign (sometimes sold as SEO)? Optimising your copy?

Visually how do you want these to fit in with your blog and archive? Do you want them to look like part of the same site, or just be links off to them? Does the brochure site need to look the same as them?

Whilst I do think that £2k is a lot of money for a 4 page website (maybe I should move back into web development), like photography it is extremely easy to spot a professional vs an amateur job. For a lot less than that you could run something like Photoshelter or Livebooks, which are already optimised for photographers.

FWIW Dreamweaver IS difficult to get to grips with ( ;) ) but as someone who had a lot of experience with Flash applications, Flash is a lot harder, not only do you need graphic design skills you need software developer and movie editing skills too.
 
Ali pop me a PM sometime, I have a friend who is a designer looking for some paid work + to build his portfolio further. I've tried to get him on the blower this morning but I think he is at work already.

If he is interested I'll pass you onto him, but I'll need specifics so I can pitch it to him.

Pete
 
Whilst £750 might seem a bit steep, bear in mind the time it takes to create a website.

The coding of the template takes a few hours to get perfect and the graphics can take days to perfect.

I have designed several websites from scratch using HTML and CSS and have spent hours and hours just lining things up, thats without the graphics!!

Templates off the web are all well and good but without any coding knowledge you will have to add your content and hope everything lines up otherwise you may have wasted £45!

Also.....flash......hmmmmm......it may seem a good idea for a creative website but most people hate them (i included). If I find a flash site, I would simply close it and not even bother. A small amount of flash on a standard website is acceptable but you might want to think about it more carefully....

Learning web design takes a long time if you want to be good at it. Skimming a book on HTML is not going to teach you much im afraid
 
Another thing to bear in mind is that the initial £750 may well be designed and built by the designer, whereas the SEO'd site will be coded by a developer, so two people working on it rather than one.

FWIW web design and web development are two very different skills, it's very rare to have someone who excels at both as graphic design and programming are such different skills.
 
Craikeybaby said:
Another thing to bear in mind is that the initial £750 may well be designed and built by the designer, whereas the SEO'd site will be coded by a developer, so two people working on it rather than one.

FWIW web design and web development are two very different skills, it's very rare to have someone who excels at both as graphic design and programming are such different skills.
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This split usually happens when a site scales up. With some e-commerce packages there are 10000+ files. in such cases doing anything other than the norm then requires a team of people with lots of skills, if not just to deal with the scale of the issues

SEO isn't really in the realm of a developer either, if you want to split hairs, It has more to do with internet marketing

However. With most web professionals having a "minimum fee" of say £100, splitting a job up for a 4 page flash site between 4 professionals is silly

On the subject of SEO, Flash isn't generally the best starting place.

Before the usual suspects jump on the band wagon about the usual XML techniques for improving the SEO qualities of a flash file, lets take a step back and think about the budget

At this budget, you are looking for the building world equivalent of the "general builder". You don't need an architect, or supervisor, or specialist team of electricians and groundsmen, you just want a good ol'fashioned website designer
 
Yes, I agree, for the budget the OP wants to spend, you won't get specialists in design, development and SEO, you'll get a jack of all trades and I am 100% confident that there is someone out there to fit the budget.
 
Ali, This might be something you're interested in. http://www.creativemotiondesign.com/

I've been looking for ages (months, and tried loads) for a decent flash template, and theses guys have been really helpful. Although based in the USA, unlike most, of the decent template providers, these folks have a contact in the UK, who I've emailed four times and has replied each time within an hour. They also offer a customisation service at an hourly rate which might be of interest to you, to integrate your other sites.

There are UK based template providers, but in my opinion they're either pants designs or very expensive.

P.s I've no links with this company whatsoever, other than I'm setting up my new site with them. :)
 
Fab, thanks for that linky treeman. :)

been having a good look at Bludomain too and that looks pretty spot on too. And the templates I like are not too expensive $100-$400 :)
 
I have heard some bad things about blu domain and their customer service. Which might be worth googling before you go ahead with them.

Do you do your own design work for all of your promo materials etc?

To me this sounds like a local uni student dream project. Gives him the chance to earn a few quid to live on and you the site you want. Might be worth a thought? You could poss get some graphic design stuff thrown in?
 
been having a good look at Bludomain too and that looks pretty spot on too.
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Funny you should mention that. I went with them originally and bought a site from them, but got fed with having to wait until the evening, to contact them, when I had problems. I also struggled a little with their control panel and images not loading properly. But that could be due to the particular template I chose, and the fact that I'm an idiot :bonk: Do the free trial and see how you get on, but they don't offer a mirror HTML site like CMD do.
 
Can I just add something here?

A few years ago I started a uni degree in programming, not for any real prospect of a job change, just something to do for my own pleasure. To cut a long story short I didn't finish it due to other matters, but before I left I did look at what the job prospects were for a junior programmer fresh out of uni - £13 1/2k to about £15k tops :eek:- not a lot eh? Web design is very similar or appeared so at the time. Makes me wonder, with prices like that just how much profit these companies are making?
 
I've done my homework on bludomain and found a few disgruntled people with regard their customer service (lack of) so I'll be doing more homework. :) I do have friends in the UK using them with no problem so their feedback is pretty good.

Being new to this it IS important to me that I am able to change content on a reasonably frequent basis especially since I cover more than one subject, I want to be able to rotate and edit some of the content. As I get more experience I want to launch into other areas, not just weddings so it has to be a template that I can change around to suit the different products.

Thanks for the advice all :)
 
Being new to this it IS important to me that I am able to change content on a reasonably frequent basis especially since I cover more than one subject,
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All the templates I've been looking at allow you to do this instantly via a "Control Panel". You could change it every minute of everyday if you wanted to, with more galleries than you can shake a stick at.

Good luck whatever you decide :)
 
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