Next step (legal-ish Question)

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bulb763

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Neil offered a D200 for sale. I contacted Neil and discussed a few things, and agreed to pay his asking price subject to him either finding his original receipt, or obtaining a duplicate from where he bought it (so that I could use the warranty if I ever needed to). I also asked him directly whether everything that came in the box originally was to be included in the sale, to which he said yes. We exchanged mobile numbers.

I paid by bank transfer and met Neil at a location convenient to us both. I took a few test shots and he showed me the contents of the box, pulling out a few leads and instruction manuals etc. I was happy with this. We discussed what was happening with the receipt, and agreed that since he didnt manage to find the original, he would get in touch with his friend at Jessops who sold him the camera and get one. Neil seemed like a genuine sort of chap, so I was happy with this.

Security turned up and kicked us out of the car park we had met in (they were locking it for the night), so we both made our exits.

Since things were a little rushed, I hadn't noticed that the camera was missing two rubber terminal covers, and the USB cable wasn't in the box. No big deal I thought, I'll mention it on the Monday when I speak to him about the receipt.

Fast-forward to Monday - no time to call him and he hasn't called me. So on Tuesday evening I call him several times and get no answer. Wednesday I do the same and send him a PM. Thursday I repeat the above and send a text message. All with no response. I have called him every evening since, to no avail. On the two occasions that his phone was answered, it was hung up straight away :suspect: According to a forum post he made since I bought the camera, he has suffered an accident at work. I was inclined to believe this at the time of reading, but his constant un-contactable-ness is making me doubtful.

Although annoying, I can live without the cable and rubber bungs, but the receipt could prove to be important should anything happen and I need to use the warranty. Plus the fact that Neil is apparently in possession of somewhat questionable morals and telephone manners - I want to get what we agreed on - or give the camera back.

So I have his bank details and a mobile phone number that he gave me. His name is Neil, but his bank account is under the name T L Porter :shrug: He drives a silver Volvo or a red Renault. He told me he has a shop / stall at the retail place whose car park we met in. He has a website, but I can't get onto it, and the links to it from his forum profile have recently been removed.

My plan is to pay a visit to his shop / stall and see if I can bump into him. If this doesn't prove fruitful, what steps can I take? Is there anything I can do between now and then?

Id appreciate any advice :) TBH I just want to speak to him. I've been a little reluctant to post this because he seemed so genuine, but I don't know what else to do now.

Thanks for taking the time to read :D
 
Hi Bulb ...... a few things started to ring true to me..... then that name!

Is this the guy? Mind you, dunno what you're gonna do..... lots of Brides are after him and I think it maybe just his b*lls they're after.....
th_hatchet.gif
 
I remember that name too Barry
 
Could you contact us using the link at the bottom with some more details? (Username etc)
Was it a trade on these forums?

And *is it* the same guy chuckles linked to? (I remember the episode of Watchdog in question).
 
I've just realised, it's the deal with [user]photo-request[/user]
 
Bulb73, can you please contact me via MSN, or email...mbooth@gmail.com

I've been doing some research on photo-request and would like to confirm a couple of details.

I believe he IS Neil Porter, the chap who appeared on Watchdog.
I've also suspended his forum account until he gets in contact with us (due to not just yours but also many other concerns we have about his legitimacy).
 
Marcel, I've emailed you.

FYI, that is the guy (in chuckles' post) :(
 
He's baaaaaaaaaaack! I had trouble getting some calendars printed by him last year. Disappeared off the face of the earth but luckily before any money was exchanged.
 
I'm glad he didn't reply to my PM about his lens in the other thread especially as it was in Leeds where I'm based. Didn't realise we had a celebrity wedding photographer in our midst :D

Ray
 
Please don't take this wrong but wasn't it a bit silly paying by transfer if you were meeting him, I think you are increadibly lucky to have got it at all.
From a legal point you probably stand less chance of getting your money back as I do of flying to the moon on a pencil, as you have found he wont answer calls, and if you dont have an address for him it's going to be hard to do anything legal without it costing you more money than it's worth.
If it were me unless you can find an address for him without it costing you money I would put it down to experience and worry about it if the camera goes wrong, annoying as that may be.
God I hate people like that.
BTW if I ever meet anyone for a deal I always take thier car registration number, it may help if something goes wrong

rayfin said:
I'm glad he didn't reply to my PM about his lens in the other thread

Ray
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You and me both
 
scraggs said:
and if you dont have an address for him it's going to be hard to do anything legal without it costing you more money than it's worth.
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I have two addresses for him, and his partners name :) And plenty more information.

My google-wu was running overtime last night :D
 
scraggs said:
Please don't take this wrong but wasn't it a bit silly paying by transfer if you were meeting him, I think you are increadibly lucky to have got it at all.
Click to expand...

Yes it was a bit silly. And I realise I have been lucky (in an obscure sort of way!). Lesson learnt

scraggs said:
From a legal point you probably stand less chance of getting your money back as I do of flying to the moon on a pencil, as you have found he wont answer calls, and if you dont have an address for him it's going to be hard to do anything legal without it costing you more money than it's worth.
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A quick google last night and I found an address for him. No way to tell whether it is genuine or not though.

scraggs said:
If it were me unless you can find an address for him without it costing you money I would put it down to experience and worry about it if the camera goes wrong, annoying as that may be.
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I've already prepared myself for that, sadly.

scraggs said:
God I hate people like that.
BTW if I ever meet anyone for a deal I always take thier car registration number, it may help if something goes wrong
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I had this minor brainwave earlier on - certainly seems a sensible precaution.
 
Marcel said:
I have two addresses for him, and his partners name :) And plenty more information.

My google-wu was running overtime last night :D
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Marcel would you like to share any of this information :D
 
bulb763 said:
Marcel would you like to share any of this information :D
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I've got your mail, thanks :) I'll reply to it with all the information I have. Just need to drop my car off at the garage.
 
Legal-ish answer


Hi Bulb763
I worked in retail for quite a long time and strictly speaking the guarantee is not transferable from one owner to the next. In point of fact if you buy something as a gift you should write on the card “with love kisses and all my statutory rights” if you want to make sure the recipient can take it back if needs be.
This of course is an extreme example and no reputable seller, private or commercial, would dream of trying this tact. However it would seem you are not dealing with a reputable seller. Cell ‘phones, car parks, I’d me more concerned that I was in receipt of stolen goods if I were you. Even unwittingly this is an offence. On one occasion in a shop someone came in with a product looking for parts for it. We realised it was on a stolen list (the goods in question being serial numbered) called the police and the chap was taken away in ‘cuffs and charged, his son was with him and understandably upset by the sight. I would suggest you pass the matter to the police, this will give you credibility if things go further a rye and may even provide you with providence if the goods are not stolen. The worst that could happen is you loose the camera and the money. If you don’t report it the worst that could happen is you get “nicked”. Setting aside your position for the moment if the camera is stolen then someone else is missing it, whether you want to take the risk of losing out to “do the right thing” is up to you.

I hope you find this of help
Ilikebowens
 
ilikebowens said:
I’d me more concerned that I was in receipt of stolen goods if I were you. Even unwittingly this is an offence.
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No its not.

s22 Theft Act: A person handles stolen goods if ... knowing or believing them to be stolen goods he dishonestly receives them ....
 
ilikebowens said:
I’d me more concerned that I was in receipt of stolen goods if I were you.
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This had crossed my mind :( If that does turn out to be the case, what would the chances be of getting my money back? I guess the answer to that is slim-to-none :( I'm assuming that the police would have better luck in contacting Neil than I'm having.

Thanks for the reply
 
I'd doubt whether Mr. Porter is dealing with stolen goods. But, many moons ago I seem to recall he had a connection with Dabs or somewhere. Something to do with his g-friend....
 
I wouldn't have thought it would be stolen goods. He just seems like your typical 'outfit'..."Botchit, 'oppit and scarper".

It wouldn't surprise me, if the weddings he's failed to deliver the prints on, he's messed up the shots and can't face telling the B&G's.
 
I would be a bit dubious about anything he has ever said.

These are his employment credentials that he has posted about so far.
Yes I'm a bit bored.

23.06.07 i work for social services and as said a enhanced is good to have but it isnt transferable, i did some work for a school and had to have another done first its a bit of a pain really, but i am happy...

06.06.07 had enough of it, i loaded all the rigging for the stage and lighting on sunday night, jesus they have ordered alot of kit for that event it should be a big day. if anyone goes and gets a picture of...

04.06.07 did a degree in environmental management and conservation biology, worked as a quality controller and a reserve warden for the wildlife and wetland trust. Just about to start a new job looking after hazardous waste

Some of his other posts made interesting reading too.
 
Just a little advance note....

We don't allow personal details being posted about anyone (It's purely to protect the forum). Like Address / Phone numbers etc :) (Incase anyone posts it - even with good intentions :))

Ta muchly :)
 
Well, his web site, before he pulled it, had links to weddings he had supposedly done were atrocious. They were as if a complete noob had bought a comera from Jessops and was let loose without a clue. Some bits were good but Marianne reckoned they were taken by a 'contracter' cos he had more weddings to do than he knew how to handle!

He always had irons in a fire and I often wondered he managed to get the work..... that bit still baffles me cos he's not very 'personable' in yer face!

He also used to be linked to a shop called fotosense or photosense. I was under the impression that was something to do with a relative. He comes from Bradford, or least that where he was about four or five years ago.

If you're really interested you can go to thread on dcmag.co.uk where Marianne started a thread (30,000+ posts now). Owner of the longest thread? In the early days he let a lot of information out about himself.... was never too certain how much to believe though.... :shrug:
 
mobilevirgin said:
No its not.

s22 Theft Act: A person handles stolen goods if ... knowing or believing them to be stolen goods he dishonestly receives them ....
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I'm more than happy to be wrong on this point, but I'd still be concerned that the camera might be stolen for all the other reasons and the police will take people away and then investigate rather than the other way around!
 
chuckles said:
He also used to be linked to a shop called fotosense or photosense. I was under the impression that was something to do with a relative.
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Where he's been 'spotted' for a while (Bolton)...ie where Watchdog tracked him down, where bulb met him etc, and where he's mentioned he's been quite a few times....

There is a shop called fotosense (www.fotosense.co.uk). I must say though that I wouldn't have thought they were anything to do with him. Being local, I've bought a few things from there, notably a grip, my lowepro bag, and a few other things. I've heard nothing but high opinion of them.
The similar names are intriguing though, which him calling himself photosense when fleecing wedding customers. I wonder if thats where the link comes from?
 
Could be Marcel...... I do remember when I met him (at a couple of photo meets years ago) he was talking about a shop where they (he used "we") sold a lot of this, a lot of that. I was surprised for while and then I wasn't after I gave it some thought. He was always dabbling in something or other. He was able to turn over equipment quicker than a student should've been able to which always left a big doubt in my mind :thinking:

I challenged him once in a forum about the shop and his web-site/forum and he gave me the impression there kinda connected and that through a relative or a relative of his, then, girlfriend, Tracy. He was always having new bits of gear which he said he was able to source cheaply - I guessed it was trade prices through the shop. I'm not in the least suggesting he 'knocked' stuff off, I truly believe he's not capable of such out and out criminality. It all seemed a trifle dubious though....

I think he's one of those guys that flouts business ethics to the ultimate degree and got his fingers severely burnt and for that I'm not at all sorry. It all comes out in the wash eventually, just sometimes it takes a while on the rinse cycle :lol:

jail.gif
 
Bulb763 has nothing to fear at all as far as a receiving /handling charge goes. The offence comes down to state of mind and what you believe or suspect at the time of actually receiving the goods. Whatever suspicions you might form later are immaterial in this offence. Bulb has also expressed his legitimate concerns on a public bulletin board - hardly the actions of a dishonest person - the case would be a non starter. ;)
 
CT said:
Bulb763 has nothing to fear at all as far as a receiving /handling charge goes. The offence comes down to state of mind and what you believe or suspect at the time of actually receiving the goods. Whatever suspicions you might form later are immaterial in this offence. Bulb has also expressed his legitimate concerns on a public bulletin board - hardly the actions of a dishonest person - the case would be a non starter. ;)
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I've also taken steps to determine once-and-for-all whether it is stolen or not - I've contacted Nikon to see of they can offer any help. The theory being that the potential rob-ee (as opposed to rob-er) would have contacted Nikon and given the serial number of the stolen goods. Then when any innocent third party-that-bought-the-camera-innocently contacts Nikon with a problem, they'd be able to check the serial number. If I had a camera stolen, I'd certainly make sure that every applicable party know about it.

If they can't help in this way then hopefully they can offer advice as to how it can be checked.

Fingers crossed - although I, too, am pretty confident it isn't stolen. This is just to satisfy the doubt.
 
bulb763 said:
I've also taken steps to determine once-and-for-all whether it is stolen or not - I've contacted Nikon to see of they can offer any help. The theory being that the potential rob-ee (as opposed to rob-er) would have contacted Nikon and given the serial number of the stolen goods. Then when any innocent third party-that-bought-the-camera-innocently contacts Nikon with a problem, they'd be able to check the serial number. If I had a camera stolen, I'd certainly make sure that every applicable party know about it.

If they can't help in this way then hopefully they can offer advice as to how it can be checked.

Fingers crossed - although I, too, am pretty confident it isn't stolen. This is just to satisfy the doubt.
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I have just read this tread from start to finish and must say i hate people with a passion who try / do rip people off in this manor, bulb763 I hope you get the required bits sorted, and on another side you could try and contact an insurance company and ask if a payout / loss has been made in respect of your Camera and serial number, it is my understanding that this is now possible.
 
Sorry to be a bit of a party pooper.

Do you think we should be discussing some of these issues so publicly, not because I'm bothered what people say about this character with a big question mark over him. More around not letting him know what possible steps you are about to take to resolve the situation.
I know his account has been suspended, but he could be viewing as an alias or with someone else's log-in details.
If he's as slippery as folk have suggested, he could be using some of this information to make things even slippier?
 
There's all sorts of considerations to look at for a case of receiving/ handling. A big factor is whether you've paid a reasonable price for the goods. If you pay a 100 quid for a two grand camera still in the box, you might have a bit of trouble convincing the judge and jury you didn't have just the teeny weeniest suspicion it might be knocked off. :D
 
CT said:
There's all sorts of considerations to look at for a case of receiving/ handling. A big factor is whether you've paid a reasonable price for the goods. If you pay a 100 quid for a two grand camera still in the box, you might have a bit of trouble convincing the judge and jury you didn't have just the teeny weeniest suspicion it might be knocked off. :D
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Haha! I thought I got a fair deal price-wise. But as ever, once I commit the dollar, prices plummet :bang: How does £750 inc Capture NX sound? That deal would have been too good to miss if it had been on the table when I was looking.

Anyway a quick update. Seems that the selling-photos-at-Botany-Bay claim was a lie, from what I could see (he told me this when he gave me the camera). On the bright-side, I think I have found where he lives...
 
bulb763 said:
On the bright-side, I think I have found where he lives...
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Yeah....:clap:

Just read the whole thread and am sickened by the lowlifes of this nature..:bat:
 
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