Newbies first attempt at studio lighting - some help required

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amuneer

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I have been reading these excellent forums for a little while. But only just making my first post. Hope I can have some feedback/tips from the lighting experts on this forum.

This is my first attempt with studio lighting and using a DSLR. I purchased my first DSLR a few weeks back. A used Nikon D50. Also yesterday bought the Interfit ex150 mkII twin kit. Bought background support system and backdrop from ebay. Also have a set of unused 625w output(125w) 5400k continuous lights (with 60x40 softboxes), though the power is not adjustable on these.

I want to do product photography. My products are not desktop size. I will be photographing chairs.

I am looking for a pure white background in the shots. From these forums I gathered the trick is to light the background separately around 1 or 2 stops more than the subject.

I used only the 2 flash strobes in the shots below. One lighting the subject from right of the camera. The other lighting the background. I did not use the continuos lights. I do not have a flash meter. Camera is set to manual mode. Shutter speed 1/320" and aperture between f11-f13.

Firstly I started with a small object and got the shot below. I am sure it can be improved, but it is the sort of thing I am looking for.

DSC_0213 (800 x 532).jpg


Then I moved onto a bar stool. And I could not get it right. Main question is how do I make the muslin around the base of the stool white without overexposing the metal base? PP is not an option as I need to make around 40 images of each product. Should I be using the continuos lights as well? Or should I be placing the chair higher from the ground on a white table or similar? I am sure I am doing multiple things wrong. Was all a bit too much for a first timer ;) All ideas welcome.

DSC_0239 (399 x 600).jpg
 
Good lighting is easy when you know how and a nightmare until you do isn't it. It's a challenge that's for sure.

I know a couple of folks on here who use sheet plastic (Stuff for showere walls) for the floor and I can't help but think it would suit your application perfectly. :)

For the best place to see how it's done have a look at Zack Arias website.
 
Thanks Ali B. Will surely look into it. Any other ideas for improvement?
 
Ali B. I can't seem to find the relevant section on Zack Arias website. Can you please point me in the right direction.
 
Hope I can have some feedback/tips from the lighting experts on this forum.
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See my signature:)

A few points, you won't like the first one. Forget about the white background from now, it's making your life unecessarily difficult, get some sort of idea on how to light the subject first, then learn how to light a white background (IMO the Zack Arias website gives poor advice) and then combine the two.

Your first shot was very easy compared to the 2nd, simply because it is very small, it isn't highly reflective and it wasn't sitting on the floor. Even so, you have flare issues from the white background - the shot would have been much better without it.

Second shot. See those specular highlights (reflections of your light) everywhere? They are caused by your lights being too small and too far away See this lighting theme on how to get those specular highlights much more diffused. You'll need much larger light sources, a large softbox is an obvious starting point, but I don't know whether you can get one for your Interfit lights - or you could make a silk from a plain white shower curtain suspended between your light and the subject. Even so, a subject like this one, with complex shapes and convex as well, isn't an easy subject.
I suspect that your 150J flash heads may struggle a bit with a large softbox or silk in the power department, you may have to use fairly high ISO and sacrifice a bit of image quality.

You CAN combine studio flash with continuous lighting. You will of course need to use a long shutter speed (set aperture to suit the flash, set the shutter speed to suit the continuous lighting) Chairs don't move so a long shutter speed will be fine, as long as you exclude unwanted light from the room. In any event, you don't want to use 1/320th sec even with just flash, that's pointless. If you're using flash only set your camera to 1/60th or 1/125th.

See those unwanted bright areas at the sides/back? All due to unwanted light from the white background.

When you are ready to shoot with a white background, suspend a piece of plate glass on a couple of trestles and place your subject on that. This will get it off the floor, making it possible to light the floor separately.

One final tip, spend nearly £6 on my still life lighting tutorial on my website

Hope this helps
 
Garry, can I ask why you think Zacks giving bad advice?

I'm not that experienced that I know the difference between what is right and wrong but the pics on his site look Ok to me and I guess the buying public would be a few steps behind us here in knowing the difference.

I'm genuinely interested in your opinion here. :)
 
AliB said:
Garry, can I ask why you think Zacks giving bad advice?

I'm not that experienced that I know the difference between what is right and wrong but the pics on his site look Ok to me and I guess the buying public would be a few steps behind us here in knowing the difference.

I'm genuinely interested in your opinion here. :)
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Simply that IMO he uses far too much light on the background, has his subjects far too close to it and seems to think it's OK to destroy fine edge detail and to allow light that should be on the BG to reach the subject too.
As a result, we get a lot of white background shots on this and other sites that people probably assume to be perfect, that IMO are worthless.

To do it well usually requires the minimum of light on the background, plenty of space and careful metering. Perhaps DD should write a tutorial on how it should really be done...
 
Garry, DD, Ali B...very enlightening information there. I certainly need a lot of practising with lights.

My main light was a 60x60 softbox at about 3ft from the subject. I have a large 150cm octagonal softbox on order. It is elinchrom fit which I have read will fit the interfit ex150's.

Due to the nature of the chair, I could not place my background light behind the subject. So it was placed to the left of the shot and had the standard reflector head. I am not able to decide if I need 1 or 2 lights for the background. I will try using the tile board suggested above and mixing flash with continuous light. Do you guys feel it will be a good idea to use the flash strobes for the background and 625w output continuous lights as the main lights?

Other thing is that I do not have the pc sync socket on my Nikon D50. Neither did I have a wireless or IR trigger. I triggered the strobes using the on camera flash set to an output of -3.00. Probably a very stupid thing to so. But I did now know how else to trigger the strobes. I have an IR trigger and a Hama hot shoe adapter on order.

My equipment is (after I receive the bits on order):
2 Interfit ex150 mkII heads with reflectors
1 150cm octagonal soft box
1 60cmx60cm soft box
1 shoot through white umbrella
2 125w(625w output) non-adjustable continous lights with 60cmx40cm soft boxes
1 Kenro wireless trigger
1 Hama hot shoe adapter

Can anyone suggest a good setup for the lights for my purpose? I will also be photographing some slightly larger items like office chairs and arm chairs.
 
Thanks Garry, I did wonder if it was his use of panels to wrap the BG light back round that had irked you :)

There is more to lighting a white background than meets the eye. :)

I do quite like his explanation of how to use white........to grey........to black. Its' just explained in a way that makes it easy to understand though someone should buy him a lightmeter!

And DD IS our resident expert ;)
 
AliB said:
Thanks Garry, I did wonder if it was his use of panels to wrap the BG light back round that had irked you :)

There is more to lighting a white background than meets the eye. :)

I do quite like his explanation of how to use white........to grey........to black. Its' just explained in a way that makes it easy to understand though someone should buy him a lightmeter!

And DD IS our resident expert ;)
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It isn't the technique that bothers me, it's the results. I'm very much in favour of simple lighting techniques, but as I see it if these techniques produce poor results then they need to be shouted down, not shouted about:)
 
My main light was a 60x60 softbox at about 3ft from the subject.
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Yes, I'd worked that out. Far too small and far too far away
I have a large 150cm octagonal softbox on order. It is elinchrom fit which I have read will fit the interfit ex150's.
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That's a useful size. Let's hope you're right about it fitting
Due to the nature of the chair, I could not place my background light behind the subject. So it was placed to the left of the shot and had the standard reflector head. I am not able to decide if I need 1 or 2 lights for the background. I will try using the tile board suggested above and mixing flash with continuous light. Do you guys feel it will be a good idea to use the flash strobes for the background and 625w output continuous lights as the main lights?
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As I've already said, you need to forget about lighting the background until you've grasped the basics of lighting the foreground
 
Many thanks guys for all the useful info:)

Just another thought. Would a polarising filter be any help to reduce the glare/reflections from the glossy black surface in the scond picture?
 
amuneer said:
Many thanks guys for all the useful info:)

Just another thought. Would a polarising filter be any help to reduce the glare/reflections from the glossy black surface in the scond picture?
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Maybe - a little, but it's the wrong approach. The right approach is to control the reflections, not to try to reduce them
 
however the barstool it is lit will never be a nice picture untill the reflections on and in the stool are worked on . Having started with probably the most difficult subject for a first try, I will try to explain how I used to do this type of shot, but I warn you it might be difficult to understand.
I would raise the stool about 20cm from the white background on a small block and with black and white card lying on the floor or supported at an angle, start making nice reflections in the stool. behind the stool add a black background, then paint with a can of white deoderant a thin line on both back edges of the stool this is controlled by masking with tape . This should give you if you have done it correctly a stool on half white where the stool is black and half black where the stool is white, Then select the background in PP change it all to white and add shadow.
as I said try something easier next time.:) Keep them comming just the wrong subject that's all
 
Great advice Garry, Phillip. I will concentrate on the foreground lighting for now. I have to photograph similar products for a catalogue in 1 months time. A friend running a small local business has asked me. So hopefully I will have a grasp of basic lighting by then.

I will be posting some more pictures in this thread once I receive the parts I have on order. Meanwhile please keep posting any advice you guys feel will help. TP rocks!!!!!
 
Just a quick update.

I received my 150cm octagonal elinchrom fit softbox today and it DOES fit the Interfit ex150 heads perfectly. In actual fact the elinchrom mount is exactly the same as Interfit ex150's. I am happy that this gives me the option to upgrade to an elinchrom flash head in the future and know that my accessories will be compatible.

I will try photographing the glossy bar stool again in the next couple of days and post the results.
 
Need some advice from you nice people at TP:)

I have taken several photos using the new 150cm softbox placed about 18" from the bar chair tot he left of the camera. However all photos seem to have washed out colours compared to my previous photos using a 60x60 softbox placed 3ft away.

Any idea why I am getting washed out colours now where as previously the black looked black with a smaller softbox?
Where and how far should I be placing the soft box?
I am still using f8 with ss of 1/125sec. Should I change this?

Will post the pictures later on if that helps.
 
You need to post an example
 
Hi Amuneer
Firstly, I really would invest in a light meter, it will give you the control and results you're after.

You're right with the background lighting being 1-2 stops brighter. Whatever settings you decide to use, stick with them so that you have a 'control' for which to monitor changes. Personally I use f11, speed 125 (although this depends on the camera/lighting you're using, I don't know Nikon, sorry) and 100 ISO or lower for really fine shots.

With regard to your original question: do you have photoshop or other editing software? If so try applying a curves or levels adjustment layer and burning out the white floor. Then you can mask off the chair (or other product) and background spill if needed using any means that suit you best.

re the washed out bar stool, were you getting spill light from the box into the lens? Did you use a hood?. Sometimes this can casue a wash look. I'd be inclined to have the softbx further back anyway, you're getting a huge amount of diffusion from that size box companed to your previous size.

A good tip, up to and including when you have your light meter is to make a journal of your set-ups. Small sketches of how far the lights are from eachother - the subject and background. Where the camera was in relation, and all the camera and lighting settings. This way, when it all works perfectly, you have it all documented down to the nearest cm.

Damo
 
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