newbie -what camera?

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mysterio84

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hey just joined the forum, the amount of info on here is phenomenal!

Anyway...im just about to look for my first slr, i dont want to spend a lot on my first camera, probably £400.

The cameras i have in mind are the nikon D60 and the canon eos 450d.

The one thing i have found out about these cameras is that they do not have auto focus...is this a problem?

So what i would like to find out is which camera from the two mentioned would you recommend? or are there other cameras in my price range that you think would be ideal for a beginner?

Also are there any other websites with info for beginners (apart from this one!)

i know this is asked all the time but i would appreciate some input from you guy!!

thanks
 
im confused, do you mean they dont have auto zoom, cos they both have auto / manual focus????
PS welcome to the site.
 
mysterio84 said:
hey just joined the forum, the amount of info on here is phenomenal!

Anyway...im just about to look for my first slr, i dont want to spend a lot on my first camera, probably £400.

The cameras i have in mind are the nikon D60 and the canon eos 450d.

The one thing i have found out about these cameras is that they do not have auto focus...is this a problem?

So what i would like to find out is which camera from the two mentioned would you recommend? or are there other cameras in my price range that you think would be ideal for a beginner?

Also are there any other websites with info for beginners (apart from this one!)

i know this is asked all the time but i would appreciate some input from you guy!!

thanks
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Welcome, Both have af but manual over ride.
The gang will be along soon to give you the ins and outs, best get yourself to a real shop and try several makes to see which feels right.
I think the D60 has its 'own' lens system like the D40
 
Hi and welcome,

I don't know about the Canon but with the D60 you have to get the lenses which have autofocus within them, it is not in the camera. Most of Nikons newer lenses do this but the older ones you will have to manually focus. This is not an entirely bad thing as autofocus is not always right and learning how to manually focus will help with your development as a photographer. Also the older Nikon cameras will autofocus the newer Nikon lenses so it maybe an idea to think about getting a good 2nd hand camera (D80, D70 etc) and spending some of the money on better lenses than the kit ones.
I would also advise (if you haven't already) going to a camera shop and handling the different cameras as ergonomically some may not suit you.

Best of luck

Andy
 
Hi mysterio and welcome to TP.

These days all DSLRs are good and will enable you to take a huge range of photos. Unless you have some very specific needs, which as a beginner seems quite unlikely, one camera will do as well as another.

As Andysnap says, handling cameras is good. They may or may not fit the size of your hands. And you might find the layout of one more logical than the other. (I found the controls of a Canon to be more intuitively straightforward than a Nikon - but some people see it the other way round.)

But one thing to bear in mind is that you're potentially buying into a system. Once you start to acquire lenses, flashes, etc., then the costs of switching from one brand to another can be high. So it's likely that the system you choose now will be with you for a long time. I think this has two important implications:

1. Don't worry too much about how a particular camera feels in your hands - there will be a new improved model along next year or the year after. But the control layout, menu structure etc. persists from one model to another, so make sure you choose one you can get along with.

2. Look into the capabilities of the total system. Of the two you mention, Canon makes a much better range of telephoto lenses than Nikon, so if you want to shoot wildlife, birds, aircraft and outdoorsy stuff then you'd probably be better off with Canon. On the other hand Nikon's flash system is better and more flexible, so if you want to shoot portraits and indoorsy stuff then you'd probably be better off with Nikon.
 
thanks for all the replies, from what i understand the canon will be a better camera for outdoor shooting as that is what il more than likely be doing except with the odd indoor shot here and there.

Im obviously going to be looking for a starter kit and most of them come with a 18-55mm lens, does this mean that if i was to buy a canon with this lens would it do exactly the same thing as a nikon with the same lens?

To be honest all i want to start off with is something that will be an all rounder, ie something that can shoot indoors and outdoors. Will the 18-55mm lens allow me to do this?

all advice appreciated!

thanks
 
What your eyes see is about the same as a 35mm lens on your new camera. [don't let anyone start telling you about 'APS-C crops' etc please, it'll just add confusion for now..]

Below 35mm, it becomes 'wider angle'. Above 35mm, it becomes more 'telephoto'.

18-55mm is a good starting range for wider angles [eg landscapes & group shots] through to everday shots. [Because 55 is about 3x18, manufacturers would call this a "3x optical zoom"]

If you want to zoom really close up to things like wildlife, you'll need a second lens - for example a 70-300mm [which gets you about ten times closer than your eyes can see, remember they 'see' at about 35mm.] There are good, new, lenses available for less than £100 - look at Tamron or Sigma, both make good lenses for Canon and Nikon.

The beauty of a SLR camera is quality of images; ignore megapixels, what counts is the sensor - in a pocketcam the sensor's half the size of a key on your computer keyboard. In a DSLR it's the size of <about> 4 keys together. That's why SLR images look better, and that's why a 6MP DSLR kicks hell out of a 15MP digicam. The other beauty is you can pick the best lens for the job, so when your friend's digicam runs out of zoom, you can put on another lens and keep going closer.

All these cameras do everything a digicam will do - including the automatic mode, so you don't have to worry about things like 'aperture' and 'ISO' to begin with. They all have autofocus, but the motor is built into the lens because that's where it's most useful.

Both the D40 and the 450D could get you a front page photo in any newspaper, they're certainly good enough - perhaps most importantly, remember you're the most important piece of any photo.

A simple 2-lens kit is the way most folks start - the 'kit lens' [18-55mm] and a zoom telephoto lens [eg 70-300] covers everything you're likely to need to begin with. Lots of people never need anything else.
 
thanks very much, the other camera i have looked at is the sony A200 with a 18-70mm lens.

is this better than the above mentioned lens, im assuming that it zooms in a little closer than the above lenses?

There are is also the canon 1000d.

to many to choose from for my liking i dread to think what it is like if you have more money to spend!!

im gonna go and take a look at some of them today if i can.

would appreciate your thoughts on the canon 1000d and the sony a200!!

thanks
 
danbroad said:
Below 35mm, it becomes 'wider angle'. Above 35mm, it becomes more 'telephoto'.

18-55mm is a good starting range for wider angles [eg landscapes & group shots] through to everday shots. [Because 55 is about 3x18, manufacturers would call this a "3x optical zoom"]

If you want to zoom really close up to things like wildlife, you'll need a second lens - for example a 70-300mm [which gets you about ten times closer than your eyes can see, remember they 'see' at about 35mm.] There are good, new, lenses available for less than £100 - look at Tamron or Sigma, both make good lenses for Canon and Nikon.

The beauty of a SLR camera is quality of images; ignore megapixels, what counts is the sensor - in a pocketcam the sensor's half the size of a key on your computer keyboard. In a DSLR it's the size of <about> 4 keys together. That's why SLR images look better, and that's why a 6MP DSLR kicks hell out of a 15MP digicam. The other beauty is you can pick the best lens for the job, so when your friend's digicam runs out of zoom, you can put on another lens and keep going closer.

All these cameras do everything a digicam will do - including the automatic mode, so you don't have to worry about things like 'aperture' and 'ISO' to begin with. They all have autofocus, but the motor is built into the lens because that's where it's most useful.

Both the D40 and the 450D could get you a front page photo in any newspaper, they're certainly good enough - perhaps most importantly, remember you're the most important piece of any photo.

A simple 2-lens kit is the way most folks start - the 'kit lens' [18-55mm] and a zoom telephoto lens [eg 70-300] covers everything you're likely to need to begin with. Lots of people never need anything else.
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Thanks for writing such a great post.
As a novice your post answered a few questions for me that I have not seen expressed so simply anywhere else.
The part about the eye 'seeing at about 35mm' really now helps me to understand lenses a lot better.
Thanks.
 
Glad to help. There is a little more to it than that, of course, but nothing that need worry anyone starting out. The best way to learn all the jargon is when you have a camera in front of you; that way, you can try something, and see immediately [that's digital for you] the effect it has.
 
mysterio84 said:
thanks very much, the other camera i have looked at is the sony A200 with a 18-70mm lens.

is this better than the above mentioned lens, im assuming that it zooms in a little closer than the above lenses?

There are is also the canon 1000d.

to many to choose from for my liking i dread to think what it is like if you have more money to spend!!

im gonna go and take a look at some of them today if i can.

would appreciate your thoughts on the canon 1000d and the sony a200!!

thanks
Click to expand...

I've currently got a Sony A200 and I'm sending it back mainly because its not comfortable for me to hold (small hands) so make sure you go to jessops and hold each one. Also sending it back because I can foresee a limitation on availability for 3rd party kit such as battery grips and flashes, and 2nd hand Minolta lenses (which fit Sony dSLR's) are sky high atm.
However, a Sony A200 with the 18-70mm lens and the Sigma 70-300mm APO (very important its the APO, its got a red ring round it to denote it from the non-APO), so long as its comfortable for you to hold, would be an excellent first dSLR and once the prices of the Minolta lenses settle you'll get some very good glass. The A200 is a feature packed camera and you won't be disappointed
 
thanks for all the input guys!!

Ive been looking at the cheaper nikon D40 mainly because it is less expensive.

how will this do as a first time DSLR?

I know it only has 6mp but how will this compare quality wise to the d60 which has 10.1mp?

Could someone explain how it would fare as a first time camera?will i regret purchasing it in a year or 2?

thanks
 
mysterio84 said:
thanks for all the input guys!!

Ive been looking at the cheaper nikon D40 mainly because it is less expensive.

how will this do as a first time DSLR?

I know it only has 6mp but how will this compare quality wise to the d60 which has 10.1mp?

Could someone explain how it would fare as a first time camera?will i regret purchasing it in a year or 2?

thanks
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I think as a first dSLR it will be great. I wouldn't say you'll regret it in a year or two per say, but depending on what direction your photography takes you, you may grow out of it and realise its limitations.
One thing to mention, there is no autofocus motor in the body so you'll have to manual focus with the older lenses that don't have a focus motor built into the lens.

Regards 6mpx vs 10..well depends if you are printing it out large format. For viewing on a computer screen and A4 prints, 6mpx is enough for sure, only the pixel peepers will tell you otherwise ;)
 
timmygcsc2308 said:
I think as a first dSLR it will be great. I wouldn't say you'll regret it in a year or two per say, but depending on what direction your photography takes you, you may grow out of it and realise its limitations.
One thing to mention, there is no autofocus motor in the body so you'll have to manual focus with the older lenses that don't have a focus motor built into the lens.

Regards 6mpx vs 10..well depends if you are printing it out large format. For viewing on a computer screen and A4 prints, 6mpx is enough for sure, only the pixel peepers will tell you otherwise ;)
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ok thanks mate. The difference in price is quite a lot and as a starter it makes sense in my view to not spend a lot!!

With the lack of autofocus in the body does it mean that the lens that comes in the kit (18-55mm) have it built in?

thanks
 
mysterio84 said:
ok thanks mate. The difference in price is quite a lot and as a starter it makes sense in my view to not spend a lot!!

With the lack of autofocus in the body does it mean that the lens that comes in the kit (18-55mm) have it built in?

thanks
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yes the kit lens will autofocus, its just the older AF (non AF-S) lenses that won't autofocus.
This is from wikipedia:

Electromechanical

* AF — The original autofocus designation, indicating focus driven by a motor inside the camera body.

* AF-I — Autofocus-Internal. Driven by a coreless DC motor. Used only in long telephoto lenses (300 mm f/2.8 through 600 mm f/4.0) starting in 1992. Replaced with AF-S in 1996.

* AF-S — Autofocus-Silent. Uses a "Silent Wave Motor" (ultrasonic motor) to focus quietly and quickly. Similar to Canon's "USM" technology. Introduced in 1996.

* AF-N — Indicates the "New" version of an AF lens. The change from plastic focus rings on early AF lenses to the a new "rubber inset focus ring" (RIFR) is often indicated by the AF-N designation.

* E — Electromagnetic diaphragm. The aperture diaphragm of an E lens is controlled digitally by the camera, and actuated electromagnetically by a system housed within the lens, rather than employing the F-mount's traditional mechanical diaphragm linkage. Currently this system appears only in certain Perspective Control lenses, designated PC-E, with designs that preclude a mechanical linkage. The E feature is only supported by the Nikon D3, D300, and D700 cameras. PC-E lenses require manual diaphragm operation on other cameras. Not to be confused with Series E lenses.

* VR — Vibration Reduction. Uses a moving optical group to reduce the photographic effects of camera shake. Some VR lenses also support a panning mode, detecting horizontal movement of the lens and minimizing only vertical vibration. The second generation of VR is called VR II, which is designed to offer another 1-stop advantage over original VR, but lenses with this feature are still designated simply "VR."
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i am kind of thinking about the d40 but there is a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that says it has no lens cleaning built in or IS if im correct.

are these essential?
 
mysterio84 said:
i am kind of thinking about the d40 but there is a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that says it has no lens cleaning built in or IS if im correct.

are these essential?
Click to expand...

Olympus E510 has IS and sonic wave cleaning and with the twin lens kit is still in your budget.
 
mysterio84 said:
i am kind of thinking about the d40 but there is a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that says it has no lens cleaning built in or IS if im correct.

are these essential?
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I'm buying a D80 (maybe tomorrow), which doesn't have either IS in body or dust cleaning and as the saying goes, 'am I bovverd'
The dust cleaning can be done manually every now and again with a rocket blower (£7 from Jessops) and the IS..well you can buy lenses with inbuilt IS but at the end of the day its not crucial at all, have a readings:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=89090

and tbh I find myself alot of the time with the camera on a tripod anyway (my £10 tesco one :lol:) where IS is useless.

However, take a giddyganders at a Sony A200 if you think these things may be important to you. 10Mpx, inbuilt IS, dust cleaning and all that jazz for about £270.
 
mysterio84 said:
i am kind of thinking about the d40 but there is a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that says it has no lens cleaning built in or IS if im correct.

are these essential?
Click to expand...


No nikon has "lens cleaning"

They have sensor cleaning but it's use is debatable.

I can't remember if the D40 has this or not.

Nikon equivalent to IS is VR and it is built into the lens not the camera. Again don't get hooed up on this as a neccessity, many of us oldies did ok with manual focus and holding our breath.
 
This is a hard choice...maybe not to some of you but i want to get as much for my money as possible and i know megapixels really dont matter but i feel better for having 10 than 6!

As well as IS and lens cleaning the sony does seem pretty decent.

What are lenses like for the sony are they more expensive or cheaper than the nikon or canon?
 
mysterio84 said:
This is a hard choice...maybe not to some of you but i want to get as much for my money as possible and i know megapixels really dont matter but i feel better for having 10 than 6!

As well as IS and lens cleaning the sony does seem pretty decent.

What are lenses like for the sony are they more expensive or cheaper than the nikon or canon?
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Sony takes the old minolta lenses and there is a ton of them on ebay atm, one must have lens is the 35-70mm which can be had for about £30 delivered. The 50mm is also an essential, usually goes for about £80..I've got one on ebay atm :naughty: oh and of course then there's the beercan ;)

But gah yea I know exactly what you mean about being indecisive..I am so set on a D80 but there is a nagging in the back of my mind..get the 450D. I'm going to get the camera tomorrow, I'll walk out with the Nikon because I just love how it feels and how nice it is to take pictures with, massive viewfinder et all, but the 450D is in effect better value for money in terms of features - I just don't like how it feels tbh :shrug:

Oh, and if anyone wants to lend me £250 that'd be grand (well no it'd be £250 but you know what I mean :p), then I can get a D90, because there is no doubt in my mind that I would have that camera any day of the week
 
You will choose the best deal for yourself in the end. Good luck. I have the Sony a200 with kit lens and I have only praise for it. The camera is 10mp shoots at a good 3fps in JPeg, can shoot JPeg and RAW has inbuilt image stability, and sensor cleaning and is great value for money. It takes great pictures and with some practice you can produce photographs of a quality you would expect from a much more expensive camera. There are better cameras out there, but for us beginners this is a great camera.
 
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