I have until now been happy with my phone images but having been left a small legacy would like to buy a 'proper' camera and lenses. The review media do not make choosing easy - full-frame, mirrorless, micro four thirds, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Olympus etc. With each review I read I am convinced that is the system and that is the brand so I thought I'd ask real photographers through this forum for practical advise. So, my budget would be about £2,000 my interests are quite wide regarding subjects but not too fussed about portraiture or sports photography. I don't live near any photo shops so would be very grateful for any advice. pointers etc. before I take the plunge.
Newbie advice
- Thread starter David GB
- Start date
- Messages
- 21,611
- Name
- Dave
- Edit My Images
- No
Hi David welcome to the forum, even though distance might be a problem for you it is still a good idea if you could try and find somewhere that you could actually hold the camera in your hands to get the feel of it. As many here might say yes go for a full frame and then you don't like it, mirrorless are coming on in leaps and bounds now and there is so much choice in what one to go for.
ecoleman
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 6,992
- Name
- Elliott
- Edit My Images
- No
Hi David, you really are asking "how long is a piece of string".
In all honestly there really is no such thing as a bad camera these days and each make and model will have pros and cons. Some cameras are more suited to certain subjects, some are smaller and lighter than others, some are faster, some have more mega pixels.
Asking on here is just going to confuse you even more as everybody here will be shooting different subjects with different camera brands, different formats and everyones recommendations will be biased to their own preferences. eg. I could never recommend a Nikon or M43 system as I've only ever shot Canon Full Frame.
A camera and lens setup for portraiture would be very different to a setup for sports which in turn would be very different for wildlife or landscapes etc.
Perhaps you really need to decide what it is you would like to shoot before spending a fortune on equipment or get something a bit cheaper or second hand to start off with and see where it takes you.
In all honestly there really is no such thing as a bad camera these days and each make and model will have pros and cons. Some cameras are more suited to certain subjects, some are smaller and lighter than others, some are faster, some have more mega pixels.
Asking on here is just going to confuse you even more as everybody here will be shooting different subjects with different camera brands, different formats and everyones recommendations will be biased to their own preferences. eg. I could never recommend a Nikon or M43 system as I've only ever shot Canon Full Frame.
A camera and lens setup for portraiture would be very different to a setup for sports which in turn would be very different for wildlife or landscapes etc.
Perhaps you really need to decide what it is you would like to shoot before spending a fortune on equipment or get something a bit cheaper or second hand to start off with and see where it takes you.
- Messages
- 43,206
- Name
- Alan
- Edit My Images
- No
I'll have a go, just for fun.
If you are willing to buy used... all prices are "in the region of..." but realistic...
Panasonic Micro Four Thirds.
Camera - £200 - £250 (My choice would be a GX80.)
Two prime lenses in the region of 17/45 f1.8 - £250-£300.
Two variable aperture (f3.5-5.6 or there abouts) zoom lenses, one standard range 14-42mm and one mid range 45-150mm - £250.
Total, about £750/£800 or so then you'll need a camera bag, some cleaning cloths, a Rocket blower and maybe a spare battery so add another few £ depending on how posh a bag you want. You'll want some processing software too but this may be free.
That would be pretty much a complete kit for daylight and even lower light shooting with the only real issue being with more demanding things like birds in flight, action shots, night time shooting and some other demanding uses and then there's the lack of a wider lens. For a wide maybe the compatible Olympus 9-18mm at about £250. Tripod? £100-£150.
And for those unfamiliar with MFT. It's a x2 crop system which makes it relatively small, light and cheap but it isn't bad and IMO a recent camera will give better image quality than something like a Canon 20D or even the original 5D and many people shot professionally or otherwise made lovely pictures with cameras like that not too long ago.
A couple of vids featuring the old GX7 which might give an impression what these cameras are like to use. For reasons I wont go into here I wouldn't recommend the GX7 and in fact I'd recommend you don't buy one. The GX80 which I would recommend is a similar camera with the most obvious difference being that it lacks the GX7's tilting view finder and that is no biggie IMO.
Enjoy...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOPwMqrSTro
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98PF33R5gxk
If you are willing to buy used... all prices are "in the region of..." but realistic...
Panasonic Micro Four Thirds.
Camera - £200 - £250 (My choice would be a GX80.)
Two prime lenses in the region of 17/45 f1.8 - £250-£300.
Two variable aperture (f3.5-5.6 or there abouts) zoom lenses, one standard range 14-42mm and one mid range 45-150mm - £250.
Total, about £750/£800 or so then you'll need a camera bag, some cleaning cloths, a Rocket blower and maybe a spare battery so add another few £ depending on how posh a bag you want. You'll want some processing software too but this may be free.
That would be pretty much a complete kit for daylight and even lower light shooting with the only real issue being with more demanding things like birds in flight, action shots, night time shooting and some other demanding uses and then there's the lack of a wider lens. For a wide maybe the compatible Olympus 9-18mm at about £250. Tripod? £100-£150.
And for those unfamiliar with MFT. It's a x2 crop system which makes it relatively small, light and cheap but it isn't bad and IMO a recent camera will give better image quality than something like a Canon 20D or even the original 5D and many people shot professionally or otherwise made lovely pictures with cameras like that not too long ago.
A couple of vids featuring the old GX7 which might give an impression what these cameras are like to use. For reasons I wont go into here I wouldn't recommend the GX7 and in fact I'd recommend you don't buy one. The GX80 which I would recommend is a similar camera with the most obvious difference being that it lacks the GX7's tilting view finder and that is no biggie IMO.
Enjoy...
andrewc
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 10,024
- Name
- Andrew
- Edit My Images
- Yes
The momemtum is now towards mirrorless, so I would expect to see the number of new dSLRs decline. Development of new products will also slow down. Thats not necessarily a bad thing as there are a lot of exceptional things out there. Theres still plenty of life in dSLRs yet and they're not going to stop being able to produce utterly astonishing photographs when used properly, it depends how deep into a new hobby you wish to get sucked into.
- Messages
- 14,819
- Name
- Richard
- Edit My Images
- No
Of the suggestions so far, I would support @woof woof because, coming from a phone, m43 is a giant leap in sensor sizes while remaining overall the most compact system.
However since you have until now been happy with your phone images why not stick with the phone or maybe get one with a better camera since the cameras in phones (all makes I think) have improved vastly in the last few years. Of course you may already have the shiniest latest phone
.Many members here use camera phones as well as ‘proper’ cameras for example, have a look at this thread:
iPHONE images... post your iPhone/Mobile pics HERE... :-)
The all mobile phone images thread.
talkphotography.co.uk
- Messages
- 43,206
- Name
- Alan
- Edit My Images
- No
As I'm just sat here... Another way to go could be with a mirrorless Full Frame camera and just a couple of lenses, in this case a standard range zoom and a 35mm f1.8 prime. All used prices but all realistic as I checked...
Sony A7 - £500.
Sony 35mm f1.8 - £400.
Sony 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 - £160.
Total = about £1,100.
Add a bag, memory card, battery etc.
This camera is an early mirrorless camera and would struggle in some situations, like fast action but there are possibly ways around this like pre focus, hyperfocal etc.
Sony A7 - £500.
Sony 35mm f1.8 - £400.
Sony 28-70mm f3.5-5.6 - £160.
Total = about £1,100.
Add a bag, memory card, battery etc.
This camera is an early mirrorless camera and would struggle in some situations, like fast action but there are possibly ways around this like pre focus, hyperfocal etc.
Last edited:
droj
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 5,069
- Name
- droj
- Edit My Images
- No
It's a tough one, and so dependent on personal aptitudes and preferences ... so there are decisions only you can make!
In the old days cameras were relatively simple - a couple of dials & a viewfinder, so there was less to stress about. The modern digital camera generally has a thousand buttons and menu choices, which might be the first threshold to struggle over. You can choose to make such a camera simple to operate - but to do that you'll have to engage with its setup menus.
After that, you can begin to engage more with photography - at your own pace.
Crucial to me though is what a given camera's like in the hand, and what's it like to look through - they do vary quite a bit.
droj
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 5,069
- Name
- droj
- Edit My Images
- No
And by the way most digital camera bodies are available as an option with what's called a 'kit zoom', which is probably a good (and economical) place to start because it'll introduce you to a certain range of focal lengths and thus allow you to start to find what your preferences are in that regard. Though the kit zoom isn't quite as good in poor light as many single focal length lenses.
Last edited:
Ed Sutton
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 8,556
- Name
- Dave
- Edit My Images
- No
I tried an approach similar with a GX7 and a GX8 but despite them looking ideal for my needs from the specs and photos I hated using the cameras. Got some decent photos with them, but hated the way they operated..
Sadly what works for one person doesn't work for another and the only way to find out what suits you is to try things in the real world.
If I was starting from scratch today I'd definitely look at mirrorless first.
Compuwight
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 1,113
- Name
- Steve France
- Edit My Images
- Yes
IMHO you should start out with a good used camera and kit lens so that you can experiment and find your own way. Used kit tends to be good value for money and can easily be sold on or traded in against newer kit later. It can nearly always be sourced locally via social media of local groups and it is always best to at least handle first.
I started out with a Nikon D3200 + kit lens that I purchased locally in CEX for £175 (not a recommendation just an example) added a zoom later for £150 and had a lot of fun trying things out (loads of helpful videos on youtube).
I would not recommend blowing your entire budget on new kit straight out of the blocks as experience suggests you will be disappointed as your skills and knowledge improve !
I have since upgrade my kit based on those early experiments... have fun and good luck
I started out with a Nikon D3200 + kit lens that I purchased locally in CEX for £175 (not a recommendation just an example) added a zoom later for £150 and had a lot of fun trying things out (loads of helpful videos on youtube).
I would not recommend blowing your entire budget on new kit straight out of the blocks as experience suggests you will be disappointed as your skills and knowledge improve !
I have since upgrade my kit based on those early experiments... have fun and good luck
Ed Sutton
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 8,556
- Name
- Dave
- Edit My Images
- No
I like the form factor (I have a Fuji X100T), that was what attracted me, but there were operating 'features' which drove me nuts. I really wanted them to be my dream set up. But they were a nightmare!
Last edited:
Autonerd
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 23
- Name
- Aaron
- Edit My Images
- No
Like others here I will offer the non-helpful advice that all cameras are pretty good nowadays, so no matter what brand you get you'll be fine. You can almost throw a dart and it won't matter.
For size (FF/APS-C/M43) I would say it's a matter of how important portability is. Me, I shoot APS-C (with a Sony a6000) because... well truth is it was recommended to me by a friend and I bought it with little research (and have never regretted it; it's 6+ years old and I see no reason to upgrade). But its size and portability are important to me -- I had a bulkier dSLR before and find the Sony easier to carry around. (I am also an avid film photographer and APS-C is comparable in size/weight to the 35mm SLRs I like). I recently helped a friend shoot a wedding with a FF Nikon D850 and the damn thing nearly gave me a hernia. M43 is even more portable and people take amazing pics with it.
As for lenses, I would suggest starting out with the "kit" lens and buying nothing else at first. Let me explain why: In the Old 35mm Days, the standard lenses were 28mm (wide angle), 50mm ("normal", shows proportions as the eyes see them), 85 or 105 mm (portrait) and sometimes 135mm (telephoto). Most kit lenses for FF are in the 28-85 range (and in APS-C that translates to 16-55 or so) which is a nice range. You'll naturally gravitate towards some focal lengths and that should inform your future lens purchases. (IMHO a new lens should be bought to solve a problem.) And if you can't zoom in enough you know you need something longer.
New lenses tend to have more speed than kit lenses (larger aperture, smaller f/number) that allows pics to take more light, but as with racing cars, speed costs money, so I'd see what you need before you spend more $$. As I said I'm an avid photographer and could use the speed of an 18-55/2.8 zoom lens -- but can't justify the $2k cost. So I do without and am still using my kit lenses.
Look at form factor too. I love my Sony because the viewfinder is off to the side -- no need for it to be at the center in a mirrorless camera, and my nose gets in the way. If I didn't own Sony I'd probably go Fujifilm, I hear lots of nice things about their cameras.
MOST IMPORTANTLY I would invest in a little learning. Phones make a lot of decisions for you and do a lot of work to make photos look good. You may be disappointed with your initial results with a "real" camera. Take a Photo 101 type course that covers the basics, particularly exposure: Aperture, shutter speed, how they interact and how they affect your photos. Beware YouTube, lots of confusing info out there and anyone can declare themselves an expert. Find a real expert to teach you the BASICS. Lots of tech-geeky stuff out there but as this old manual-film-camera user can tell you, the basics work just as well in digital.
GOOD LUCK and welcome to a very rewarding hobby!
Aaron
Autonerd
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 23
- Name
- Aaron
- Edit My Images
- No
PS more expensive isn't necessarily better. People have been trying for years to buy their way to a better photo, but nothing beats a good eye and some natural talent.
- Messages
- 5,607
- Name
- Stephen
- Edit My Images
- Yes
All the technique in the world doesn't compensate for the inability to notice (Elliot Erwitt).
Or even Edward Steichen's remark that no photographer is as good as the simplest camera.
All cameras have limitations, and provided that you stay within them, all are capable of excellent results.
Last edited:
I was at a camera show in Bath a few years ago. A brand ambassador also pointed out that there were no bad cameras any more really. This was his advice:
1- Write down what you want your camera to do; what features do you think will be important?
2- Make a list, regardless of price and brand, of the cameras that have those features. eg focus stacking, IBIS, dual card slots etc etc
3. Cross out the cameras that are beyond budget - new or used, I would add here.
4. Go and pick them up.
5. Pick the one that feels best in your hands.
In 2016 or so, when Canon were behind on the mirrorless road, I went to the PhotoShow. I wanted a lighter camera as a second body/system. I was convinced that I would be buying either a Fuji or a Sony. I picked both up and disliked them and the lenses were just as heavy as my Canon lenses. Somewhat disappointed I mooched on and then picked up an Olympus and it was perfect in my hands. I run two systems. My Oly is for my documentary type work mainly but there a many examples out there and on here of fabulous photography. If I were starting now, knowing what I know and not needing specific stuff for sports photography and the occasional foray into bird photography, I would definitely go mirrorless.
Here's a link to the ambassadors: https://www.olympus-imagespace.co.uk/photographers/
So, I would urge you to go and travel to a shop - and hopefully, give them the business after you have tried the equipment. Good luck with your decision.
1- Write down what you want your camera to do; what features do you think will be important?
2- Make a list, regardless of price and brand, of the cameras that have those features. eg focus stacking, IBIS, dual card slots etc etc
3. Cross out the cameras that are beyond budget - new or used, I would add here.
4. Go and pick them up.
5. Pick the one that feels best in your hands.
In 2016 or so, when Canon were behind on the mirrorless road, I went to the PhotoShow. I wanted a lighter camera as a second body/system. I was convinced that I would be buying either a Fuji or a Sony. I picked both up and disliked them and the lenses were just as heavy as my Canon lenses. Somewhat disappointed I mooched on and then picked up an Olympus and it was perfect in my hands. I run two systems. My Oly is for my documentary type work mainly but there a many examples out there and on here of fabulous photography. If I were starting now, knowing what I know and not needing specific stuff for sports photography and the occasional foray into bird photography, I would definitely go mirrorless.
Here's a link to the ambassadors: https://www.olympus-imagespace.co.uk/photographers/
So, I would urge you to go and travel to a shop - and hopefully, give them the business after you have tried the equipment. Good luck with your decision.
- Messages
- 49,339
- Name
- Nod (UK)
- Edit My Images
- Yes
That's exactly what I did many years ago when I wanted to get back into SLR photography.
An extra
for the "buy from the shop you try their equipment", especially if they're a small independent. The advice they can give and being able to try kit on before you buy is worth the extra, especially for a newbie to the hobby.
boer13
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 87
- Name
- Jaco
- Edit My Images
- No
Sound advice indeed!
Like buying anything nowadays, there are indeed many confusing options. But with a healthy market for used gear, you have a good selection as well as lower financial risk should you decide not to hang on to it.
Bobinkaphoto
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 26
- Edit My Images
- No
Contrary to others, I think you should buy the best camera/lenses your budget can afford. Learning exposure/composition etc is the same on any camera and if you buy used you rarely lose too much in value should you wish to sell if photography is not for you. Go to a shop if you can and play around with a few models. See what feels right.
Craikeybaby
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 7,590
- Name
- Lewis
- Edit My Images
- Yes
My advice would be to spend about half your budget on a camera and kit lens (because I am a Fuji guy I would suggest something like X-T30 & 18-55mm lens), then use that for a bit and get a feel for the camera and what other lens(es) you need to spend the rest of the money on.
- Messages
- 14,819
- Name
- Richard
- Edit My Images
- No
Welcome back!
- Messages
- 2,722
- Name
- Neville
- Edit My Images
- Yes
You can have too much information. In the end it just confuses you. I suppose you've just got to ask yourself what you want to do. If you can't be doing with all the faffing about with kit and lenses then an all in one camera, or compact will do. But if you think you might become more adventurous start off cautiously with something like a more modest APSC camera. It would probably be a mistake to jump from a phone straight into the money pit of expensive systems.