New York Post Generates Anger Over Imminent Death Photo

joescrivens said:
exactly!

so what we are seeing is something rare and thats why people are making a big deal about it. Just because it's not the first time it has EVER been done doesnt mean it can't have a huge impact.
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I'm lost about what we are discussing here :lol:
 
Flying Penguin said:
I'm not going to go trawling for subway shots, quite frankly it's not something I follow or have any inkling of a desire to research. A person with a P-51 about to land on their head is as about-to-be-dead as someone who is about to be sliced by a tube train.
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But the circumstances around those two incidents are co platelet different thus making them unique. The end result making someone dead is irrelevant
 
joescrivens said:
But the circumstances around those two incidents are co platelet different thus making them unique. The end result making someone dead is irrelevant
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Actually, the Station fire and the tube incident are as close as makes no moral difference. Opportunity to help not taken, the guy with the camera just keeps shooting. Again, these are only two that spring to mind immediately, not an exhaustive list.
 
Flying Penguin said:
Actually, the Station fire and the tube incident are as close as makes no moral difference. Opportunity to help not taken, the guy with the camera just keeps shooting. Again, these are only two that spring to mind immediately, not an exhaustive list.
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ummm

how is being burned or crushed anything like being ran down by a subway train?

apart for the obvious part that ends with the person no longer living?
 
joescrivens said:
ummm

how is being burned or crushed anything like being ran down by a subway train?

apart for the obvious part that ends with the person no longer living?
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You're looking in the wrong direction. The photo isn't controversial because it's a tube train, it's controversial because it's clearly a person's last moments and it looks like the photographer could have helped them. That it's a tube train is very much secondary. It would have been just as controversial if it had been an old granny who fell trying to escape a fire and, rather than easily pull her out, the tog shot away and let her burn to death.
 
Flying Penguin said:
You're looking in the wrong direction. The photo isn't controversial because it's a tube train, it's controversial because it's clearly a person's last moments and it looks like the photographer could have helped them. That it's a tube train is very much secondary. It would have been just as controversial if it had been an old granny who fell trying to escape a fire and, rather than easily pull her out, the tog shot away and let her burn to death.
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you must be looking at a different picture as I can't see how the photographer could have helped
 
POAH said:
you must be looking at a different picture as I can't see how the photographer could have helped
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No, I said it "looks like" he could have helped. A lot of people looked at that and asked "why wasn't he helping?", that's at least partially why the photographer is copping flak as well as just the magazine.

As I said in my first post, I haven't a clue whether he actually could have helped, for a start I've no idea if he was long-lensing it.
 
Flying Penguin said:
You're looking in the wrong direction. The photo isn't controversial because it's a tube train, it's controversial because it's clearly a person's last moments and it looks like the photographer could have helped them. That it's a tube train is very much secondary. It would have been just as controversial if it had been an old granny who fell trying to escape a fire and, rather than easily pull her out, the tog shot away and let her burn to death.
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no. I'm saying that it is unique because it is a tube train. Not talking about the controversy, I'm talking about the unique-ness of it
 
joescrivens said:
no. I'm saying that it is unique because it is a tube train. Not talking about the controversy, I'm talking about the unique-ness of it
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That's not what you said at #24

joescrivens said:
Yes it is.

How often do you see a photograph of someone about to meet their demise from a freak incident.We've seen lots of photos of people dead or dying, but we don't see lots of them where a perfectly healthy man is about to die
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Now if you are saying you meant tube train rather than freak incident, that's fine, you're probably right, I've never seen such a good picture of a tube death.

However pictures of imminent death used in the media are not that uncommon, and if we include dead or dying, they are borderline ten a penny, and hence I don't think the use of the photo is so much the anomaly as the use of gratuitously sensational language.
 
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The photographer is dammed if he does and dammed if he does not.

He probably started shooting when the guy that pushed him started all the bother and the guy on the track was trying to intervene. So he will more than likely have the guy in shot too who pushed him, he carried on shooting as he knew there would be a story and a pay day in the shots taken.

What i cannot understand is the guy on the track, surely if he just lay down and tucked right into the side of the station the train would have missed him, ok scary as hell as the train goes by you but still could be alive, unless someone knows differently how much room there is between the train and the side of the platform, I know the train is only inches at the platform level but I am talking at the bottom.
 
Flying Penguin said:
That's not what you said at #24



Now if you are saying you meant tube train rather than freak incident, that's fine, you're probably right, I've never seen such a good picture of a tube death.

However pictures of imminent death used in the media are not that uncommon, and if we include dead or dying, they are borderline ten a penny, and hence I don't think the use of the photo is so much the anomaly as the use of gratuitously sensational language.
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No I still stand by my original comment. You do not see pictures of people just about to die from a freak accident very often. You say they are common, now lets define what we mean, can you show me one every week for the last year for example? That's what I would call common. 3 or 4 a year is not common in my opinion.

Common and unique are different things and different points being made by me in this thread with different posts.
 
joescrivens said:
No I still stand by my original comment. You do not see pictures of people just about to die from a freak accident very often. You say they are common, now lets define what we mean, can you show me one every week for the last year for example? That's what I would call common. 3 or 4 a year is not common in my opinion.

Common and unique are different things and different points being made by me in this thread with different posts.
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So we're back to what I said earlier, we only disagree about what is common or rather 'not that uncommon', which is the phrase I used.

We can be used to things that happen much less frequently than one a week, for example I would call major political scandals relatively common, and hence relatively unshocking, and they are much nearer the 3-4 a year mark than one a week. In general terms, if something happens reliably once a week it's probably not that newsworthy. The photo is probably unique, I've never seen anything exactly like it, but photos of that type are not that uncommon.

Anyway, we are back to where we were several hours ago, we're going round in circles on minor definition issues so I'm done here.
 
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Flying Penguin said:
So we're back to what I said earlier, we only disagree about what is common or rather 'not that uncommon', which is the phrase I used.

We can be used to things that happen much less frequently than one a week, for example I would call major political scandals relatively common, and hence relatively unshocking, and they are much nearer the 3-4 a year mark than one a week. In general terms, if something happens reliably once a week it's probably not that newsworthy. The photo is probably unique, I've never seen anything exactly like it, but photos of that type are not that uncommon.

Anyway, we are back to where we were several hours ago, we're going round in circles on minor definition issues so I'm done here.
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I disagree but like you said we're going round so lets leave it there.
 
SpikeK6 said:
The photographer is dammed if he does and dammed if he does not.

He probably started shooting when the guy that pushed him started all the bother and the guy on the track was trying to intervene. So he will more than likely have the guy in shot too who pushed him, he carried on shooting as he knew there would be a story and a pay day in the shots taken.

What i cannot understand is the guy on the track, surely if he just lay down and tucked right into the side of the station the train would have missed him, ok scary as hell as the train goes by you but still could be alive, unless someone knows differently how much room there is between the train and the side of the platform, I know the train is only inches at the platform level but I am talking at the bottom.
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From memory some stations have a space under the platform (presumably for such an emergency) others don't, theres also the 3rd live rail between the track which might make it akward to get in between the lines.
 
SpikeK6 said:
The photographer is dammed if he does and dammed if he does not.

He probably started shooting when the guy that pushed him started all the bother and the guy on the track was trying to intervene. So he will more than likely have the guy in shot too who pushed him, he carried on shooting as he knew there would be a story and a pay day in the shots taken.

What i cannot understand is the guy on the track, surely if he just lay down and tucked right into the side of the station the train would have missed him, ok scary as hell as the train goes by you but still could be alive, unless someone knows differently how much room there is between the train and the side of the platform, I know the train is only inches at the platform level but I am talking at the bottom.
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I think that when you find yourself unexpectedly pushed onto a track in front of an oncoming train it is probably rather difficult to think in that logical fashion.
 
Mm not sure what i make of this really. as a few have said we don't know all the facts as we were not there. Nor do we know the distance of the photographer, but even if he was 100ft away there would be no chance! of him getting to the man.

I agree with both quotes here, (Below) and the man might not of had time to think about where to go etc. However I can not for the life me figure out why he did not just lift him self up?? is he 80? the platform only looks to be 5ft at the most! I could easily hop up that on a normal day never mind if my life was in danger with adrenaline pumping. and im sure others would agree with being able to get up.

Very sad and my heart goes out to his family.

SpikeK6 said:
The photographer is dammed if he does and dammed if he does not.

He probably started shooting when the guy that pushed him started all the bother and the guy on the track was trying to intervene. So he will more than likely have the guy in shot too who pushed him, he carried on shooting as he knew there would be a story and a pay day in the shots taken.

What i cannot understand is the guy on the track, surely if he just lay down and tucked right into the side of the station the train would have missed him, ok scary as hell as the train goes by you but still could be alive, unless someone knows differently how much room there is between the train and the side of the platform, I know the train is only inches at the platform level but I am talking at the bottom.
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Summerstar said:
I think that when you find yourself unexpectedly pushed onto a track in front of an oncoming train it is probably rather difficult to think in that logical fashion.
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sthwild said:
strange. guy managed to take his camera out, compose and take picture
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And you know this, how?

As far as we know this man might have had his camera out and in hand already. It's a pretty common sight in NYC to see people walking around with cameras in their hands.
 
The photographer had his camera out because he was on the way to an event a few stations away. What hasn't been said in this thread is that there was quite an amount of time from when people saw the victim get pushed on to the tracks until the train actually came. The photo gives the impression that it might have all happened in a split second, when it seems there was over 20 seconds for the photographer and others to help the man.
 
Rod.F said:
The photographer had his camera out because he was on the way to an event a few stations away. What hasn't been said in this thread is that there was quite an amount of time from when people saw the victim get pushed on to the tracks until the train actually came. The photo gives the impression that it might have all happened in a split second, when it seems there was over 20 seconds for the photographer and others to help the man.
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source?
 
Never fails to amaze me how people on this forum prefer to argue rather than seek evidence themselves

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Mr Abbasi says he was returning from a Post assignment in Times Square and had his camera in his hand when Davis allegedly pushed Mr Han onto the tracks.
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Apparently closer bystanders were taking picture/footage on their phones

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/12/07/2012120700654.html

"I saw a body flying through the air and onto the track. I just started running. I had my camera up -- it wasn't even set to the right settings -- and I just kept shooting and flashing, hoping the train driver would see something and be able to stop," he added.

"The victim was so far away from me, I was already too far away to reach him when I started running. The train hit the man before I could get to him, and nobody closer tried to pull him out."
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i love irony joe, which is why i find your posts so ammusing ;)

surely if they quoted the guy, it's accurate ... maybe not
 
new2me said:
surely if they quoted the guy, it's accurate ... maybe not
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Naive much?

What is interesting on that thread though is the video interview at the end. I think it is a very weak argument to say that he was trying to alert the driver with his flash.

It would have been much better to say that he knew there was no chance he could help him so he just began documenting the incident because that's what he does for a living. The evidence could then be used for all kinds of things
 
well, if people choose not to believe the media and that's the only source of 'evidence' available, what's the point in arguing about it.

none of us were there
 
new2me said:
well, if people choose not to believe the media and that's the only source of 'evidence' available, what's the point in arguing about it.

none of us were there
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its more about the quality of said media not media in general. I'd never take anything for gospel written in the daily mail. Always err on the side of caution with them.

But the video interview in the thread is right out of the horses mouth so is worth a watch
 
new2me said:
well, if people choose not to believe the media and that's the only source of 'evidence' available, what's the point in arguing about it.

none of us were there
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"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine
 
i'm not a daily mail fan myself and notice it gets a fair bashing on the forum, but it just happened to be one of the first results that came up in my search on the subject

as for the weak argument about his actions, we dont know how we would react in a similar situation
 
Rapscallion said:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine
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a lot of this is arguing for the sake of it, without any experience of the incident though
 
new2me said:
as for the weak argument about his actions, we dont know how we would react in a similar situation
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I didn't say it was a weak argument about his actions. I'm saying its a weak argument to pretend he was just using the flash to alert the driver. He shouldn't be ashamed of just saying that he knew there was no way he could help and was just documenting the event because that's what he does.

Nothing wrong with documenting an incident you cannot prevent. Like he says in the video, it's not his choice on how the content he takes is presented.
 
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