New York Post Generates Anger Over Imminent Death Photo

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Another story for those that love debating the ethics of photography.

Story here.

"The man in the picture has his back to the camera. He’s desperately clawing at a subway platform, looking right at the train that’s bearing down on him as he stands on the tracks."

What are your views?
 
I'm trying to even imagine the mindset of somebody who would decide to take photos at that point, presumably he also kept shooting and this is one of the few publishable ones.

Even if you accept there is no way the photographer could have actually saved him, it's still wrong on every level. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I didn't even try. The 'I used my flash to warn the driver' excuse is a flat out lie, in my opinion.
 
Shocking.....

This guys family is sure to stumble across this image

People can easily do something about this and simply not buy the paper, for a month, that would hurt.
 
Interesting shot, I'm guessing the man was pushed onto the track deliberately as it's not crowded.
I can see why the paper published it, it's a good news shot, could the photographer have helped, no chance! Those trains go a fair speed, there simply isn't time with the train that close.
Theres two ways of looking at a story like this. One is it's disturbing to the family, and shouldn't be shown, the other is by making the story public it may bring about better safety at the stations, and help prevent others dying the same way.
 
Nasty image indeed, should it of been published ? There's a good arguement for both ways and as a documentary item of mans inhumanity I think it warrants being published.

I'm absolutely amazed there isn't anyone else on the platform to help, the photographer has no chance of reaching the guy when the trains that close, but you have to wonder how long he took to compose the image as it doesn't really look like it was taken while he was running to help. I know I certainly couldn't live with myself knowing I hadn't done my utmost to help and that wouldn't of included me stopping to take a picture.

There's 2 ways of looking at mans inhumanity with that photo, one way is the person who pushed him on the tracks in the first place, and the other is the way the photographer decided to get the photo first before trying to help. Just my take on it.
 
I doubt the guy tried to help at all as the pictures too well taken.
Honestly yes there looked like there's no chance that anyone more than an arms length could have helped the bloke.

I can't actually bring myself to judge the photographer to be honest, it is what it is, a record of an impending terrible event, a great photojournalistic shot and while it may seem a terrible thing to say, it certainly is the definition of a shot using lead in lines :-/
 
Presumably as pushing him into the path of the train was a deliberate act, a shot of the perpetrator would have been more use. It must only have just happened else the victim would have had time to escape.
 
Not looked at the picture and don't intend to.

There seems to be a general supposition that the man was pushed but surely it's just as likely (if not more so) that he was leaning out over the track to see the train coming and slipped? Improve station safety? How? 6' unclimbable barriers along the whole length of every platform? IF he was pushed, the photo in question (or, possibly, if the one that's under discussion is part of a sequence) may well have captured the push or at least have the assailant in shot.
 
strange. guy managed to take his camera out, compose and take picture, but didn't have time to try to help? unless he had the camera ready to shoot. then why he didn't take a shot of a person who pushed that guy? another option - "you push this guy and I'll take a picture"...
 
The picture is bad enough but the fact that the guy didn't help and took a picture instead is shocking.
 
the fact that the other side of the track is open begs the question why didnt he run the other way.
 
Nod said:
There seems to be a general supposition that the man was pushed
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That's because he was. He was trying to intervene when someone was causing some aggro for other people on the platform and the person causing trouble pushed him onto the track.
 
Nod said:
Not looked at the picture and don't intend to.

There seems to be a general supposition that the man was pushed but surely it's just as likely (if not more so) that he was leaning out over the track to see the train coming and slipped? Improve station safety? How? 6' unclimbable barriers along the whole length of every platform? IF he was pushed, the photo in question (or, possibly, if the one that's under discussion is part of a sequence) may well have captured the push or at least have the assailant in shot.
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He was pushed. The guy who did it was videod by another commuter.
 
Nod said:
Not looked at the picture and don't intend to.

There seems to be a general supposition that the man was pushed but surely it's just as likely (if not more so) that he was leaning out over the track to see the train coming and slipped? Improve station safety? How? 6' unclimbable barriers along the whole length of every platform? IF he was pushed, the photo in question (or, possibly, if the one that's under discussion is part of a sequence) may well have captured the push or at least have the assailant in shot.
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It says in the story the man was shoved on the track and that police were looking for the suspect. Thats why it helps to read something your comenting on first
And many metro stations do have barriers along the lenght of the platforms, like some of our underground stations.
 
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The photographer was claiming yesterday that he was using his flash to warn the driver, not take a picture. :)
 
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Wayne, I was completely up front about not having seen the picture (and by inference the story). I have no desire to see a picture of a man about to be cut down by a subway train. Extremely rarely go to London or anywhere with underground/metro etc, so unaware of any safety measures that may be in place - I certainly don't remember seeing any last time we were up in London.
 
Nod said:
Wayne, I was completely up front about not having seen the picture (and by inference the story). I have no desire to see a picture of a man about to be cut down by a subway train. Extremely rarely go to London or anywhere with underground/metro etc, so unaware of any safety measures that may be in place - I certainly don't remember seeing any last time we were up in London.
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There are none. Having suffered the central line commute im honestly amazed that there arent fatalities every day!

As far as the image in question goes, the tog claims he was running up the platform firing his flash to alert the driver, a very well composed, focused and exposed shot was the end result. Murdoch press though so cant expect much else.
 
Personally, I'm not sure how we can judge it just from the shot itself in the absence of the rest of the sequence or another eyewitness account.

Best guess, that photo is about 3-4 seconds from impact at most (based on London tube speed).

Best case: Victim has only just got to the side of the track (jumping in to help before this would have been near suicide), tog has camera out and is taking shots before the incident starts (people do take shots in subway stations and this would explain the correct exposure), tog wasn't close enough to help in any case and was shooting with a long lens.

Worst case: Victim has had time to have a couple of goes and heaving himself out (so anyone could have pulled him out), tog gets camera out after incident starts rather than going to help, tog could have reached the guy well before the train arrived.

Do we really have enough info to decide where between those two he fits?

As for publishing, the photo in this MSNBC article captures a split second before 10 people were killed by an aircraft crashing into a crowd of people. Whilst this was just the first example that came to mind as I read the accident report a few days ago (and that photo still makes me wince when I look at it), we see images of imminent death with depressing regularity in the media, the tube picture is only marginally more shocking than the average daily media barrage we all receive.
 
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Not read any more about this then what is wrote on this forum, don't really want to see the picture myself, for those who have read the article how did the paper get the photograph? did the photographer contact them, did they find it on line... etc
Shocking he took the shot, if he then went home and put it on facebook or something that would be even worse so I'm interested to know how the shot got out in public
 
4737carlin said:
Not read any more about this then what is wrote on this forum, don't really want to see the picture myself, for those who have read the article how did the paper get the photograph? did the photographer contact them, did they find it on line... etc
Shocking he took the shot, if he then went home and put it on facebook or something that would be even worse so I'm interested to know how the shot got out in public
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According to reports, he was a freelancer with an existing relationship with the paper. He took it to them in the usual manner and they bought it.
 
Not sure what the big deal is about this photo is. Sure it stirs emotion because of the death of the guy but its no different to any other shot that we have seen. The photographer was clearly too far away from the guy to help and he did freelance work for a Murdoch newspaper.

The printed image makes it look like there was no one else about. Where are the other people that were close to the guy - didn't they help him. That's what I find shocking.

The worst thing about the publication is the headline in the paper.
 
POAH said:
Not sure what the big deal is about this photo is. Sure it stirs emotion because of the death of the guy but its no different to any other shot that we have seen.
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Yes it is.

How often do you see a photograph of someone about to meet their demise from a freak incident. We've seen lots of photos of people dead or dying, but we don't see lots of them where a perfectly healthy man is about to die

I'm not saying there aren't any. But they are not common.
 
essexash said:
There are none. Having suffered the central line commute im honestly amazed that there arent fatalities every day!

As far as the image in question goes, the tog claims he was running up the platform firing his flash to alert the driver, a very well composed, focused and exposed shot was the end result. Murdoch press though so cant expect much else.
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Yes there are, check out the station closest to canary wharf they have full hight safety barriers there and a few other stations.

Jubilee--Waterloo-barriers450.aspx
 
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All the platforms at underground locations (i.e. not surface stations such as Stratford) on the 1999 Jubilee Line extension from Green Park to Stratford are equipped with platform edge doors.

Their primary purpose is to manage air flow from the piston effect as trains enter the station, with a side benefit of preventing people falling onto the track.

They require both standardised rolling stock (the doors all have to be in the same place) and at least some degree of automatic train control so that the trains pull up in the right location every time. NYC Metro would face a big challenge with that (indeed similar applies to many or most London Underground lines).

edit: Stations on the Crossrail route currently under construction will be fitted with PEDs. Retrofitting them to older stations is a more difficult prospect.
 
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Im not going to argue weather or not the photographer should have captured this image but instead voice my disgust that anyone! Considers this to be news or newsworthy.
There is no story here, man gets pushed into path of oncoming train. That's your scoop, and for a paper, be it gutter press or not, to run this is just insane.
The poor guy is dead, his family have to come to terms with this, what better way to soften the blow by making his obviously terrified and horrific last seconds international. Sick.
We don't need to be exposed to this, like i said there is no story. Some of the most harrowing images of war and famine have a place, they serve a purpose and a have a duty to tell the world that this stuff exists. Images such as this serve no other purpose than to shock and are a cheap ticket.
I did consider at the beginning of writing this that the said image could serve as a physical reminder to the person who pushed the guy onto the tracks, perhaps gnaw away at his conscience until he turned himself in but in hindsight, anyone sick enough to push someone into the path of a train will more than likely already have it on their wall as a memento.
 
Simon photo said:
Im not going to argue weather or not the photographer should have captured this image but instead voice my disgust that anyone! Considers this to be news or newsworthy.
There is no story here, man gets pushed into path of oncoming train. That's your scoop, and for a paper, be it gutter press or not, to run this is just insane.
The poor guy is dead, his family have to come to terms with this, what better way to soften the blow by making his obviously terrified and horrific last seconds international. Sick.
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I disagree, there is a story here. Theres a story about a man intervening to try and help someone who ended up dead, a story about the dangers of the subway, a story about why nobody was helping him. Lots of stories.
 
There is a story here, and the photograph has a lot of impact. Whether it should have been published is another matter. I suspect it had more to do with selling newspapers than anything else, and I find it distasteful.
 
I think that anyone with a head on their shoulders understands the dangers of underground rail. Be it human or mechanical, an image is not required to tell of what happened here but obviously a photo of this is worth more that column inches.
Sad, sick, typical and obvious.
 
Simon photo said:
I think that anyone with a head on their shoulders understands the dangers of underground rail. Be it human or mechanical, an image is not required to tell of what happened here but obviously a photo of this is worth more that column inches.
Sad, sick, typical and obvious.
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You'd be surprised, people are stupid. I would be willing to bet a lot of people have never even considered the dangers of underground rail.
 
I'm not sure where I stand on this, I can see both sides of the debate, however I do wonder how the train driver feels about seeing himself moments before the inevitable.
 
joescrivens said:
Yes it is.

How often do you see a photograph of someone about to meet their demise from a freak incident. We've seen lots of photos of people dead or dying, but we don't see lots of them where a perfectly healthy man is about to die

I'm not saying there aren't any. But they are not common.
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There are quite a few images of war that show the moment before, during or after death. Ok not everyday but this type of image is nothing new.
 
POAH said:
There are quite a few images of war that show the moment before, during or after death. Ok not everyday but this type of image is nothing new.
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like I said

"How often do you see a photograph of someone about to meet their demise from a freak incident."
 
joescrivens said:
like I said

"How often do you see a photograph of someone about to meet their demise from a freak incident."
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Well to give one more (tv) example (see my previous post for the first example), The Station nightclub fire in 2003 was filmed by Brian Butler for WPRI-TV. He was there filming a piece on nightclub safety, the band for the night was the rock group "Great White". All was going swimmingly until an oversized pyrotechnic device ignited the soundproofing surrounding the stage. 100 people died in the resulting fire.

The unedited footage can be found online with ease, but if you want to sleep tonight I don't recommend you watch the video, or if you must, don't look too closely. I had the misfortune of watching it in frame by frame detail as part of a fire safety course with Royal Berkshire Fire & Rescue and have no desire to ever watch it again.

The parallels with the subway incident are as follows:
  • The cameraman was in the right place at the right time (well, right in it's loosest sense)
  • The footage captures people fleeing from the fire who subsequently died
  • In one shot a large number of (alive) people are seen crushed into a too small exit doorway begging for help, these people are seen on fire and moving in a later shot. The cameraman did not attempt to help those trapped, although he arguably could have pulled several of them free
  • Substantial parts of the footage were released to news channels and used in broadcasts, including doomed people, although I'm not aware of any clear "moment of death" shots being used
  • The cameraman/tv station did not face any charges/censure over the content of the video (although the tv station did get cited for a conflict of interest as the cameraman part-owned the club)

Whilst crystal clear footage of accidents are relatively rare (how many truly freak accidents occur in front of ready professional lenses?), the tube shots are hardly without precedent. Not saying it's right, just that it's not a unique incident.
 
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joescrivens said:
like I said

"How often do you see a photograph of someone about to meet their demise from a freak incident."
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Not very but we have seen them
 
POAH said:
Not very but we have seen them
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exactly!

so what we are seeing is something rare and thats why people are making a big deal about it. Just because it's not the first time it has EVER been done doesnt mean it can't have a huge impact.
 
Flying Penguin said:
Not saying it's right, just that it's not a unique incident.
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And like I have already said. It doesn't have to be the only time it has happened to make it shocking and affect people. It's still a rare event, even though you can describe another incident 8 years ago. It's not like you can point out 1 incident every week for the last year.

we see these things very very rarely, so they have a big impact when they happen

Also, I don;t recall ever seeing a photo where a subway train was about to run someone down. So in which case it is totally unique, unless you can show me a photograph of it happening before - there very well could be one, I don't know.
 
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joescrivens said:
And like I have already said. It doesn't have to be the only time it has happened to make it shocking and affect people. It's still a rare event, even though you can describe another incident 8 years ago. It's not like you can point out 1 incident every week for the last year.

we see these things very very rarely, so they have a big impact when they happen
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I think we only really disagree on what counts as "very very rarely". I've only given the first two examples that come to mind, but there are plenty of shots, especially in transport related accidents, of doomed people that have been published. The only reason this one is any different is that it's actually a well composed photo rather than a grab shot.

I'm not going to go trawling for subway shots, quite frankly it's not something I follow or have any inkling of a desire to research. A person with a P-51 about to land on their head is as about-to-be-dead as someone who is about to be sliced by a tube train.
 
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There's definitely a story here; to suggest that the death of one man at the hands of another isn't worth reporting is to abandon any claim to humanity. However, using a picture like that on the front page is something else again. It serves no purpose other than sensationalism, pandering to the lowest depths of voyeurism in order to well copies.

As for the photographer; I've never read such a load of old boil dressings in my life. In a subway station, an environment not noted for it's abundance of light, he 'just happened' to have a long lens on - one which meant that he was shooting from a great distance! Well that would accord with the complete absence of other people on the platform then. Whenever I've been on a subway, either the Tube in London or the New York Metro, the chance of taking a picture like that from any great distance without having other people in the frame has been non-existent. I am quite prepared to accept that there was little he could do to help, for such incidents take place in a matter of seconds but to decide, 'Oh well, I'll take a picture instead' speaks of an incredible lack of morals. And his claim that he was running toward the train firing his camera flash to alert the driver doesn't wash either; if he had time to realise what was happening and switch the flash on, then he had the time to at least attempt to help the victim. Of course, assuming that the train driver hadn't noticed the man on the track in the first place (I think it highly likely that the driver was all too aware), firing a flash gun in his face isn't really going to help the situation.

I think the photographer's motivation is best summed up by the bit in the report that says when he was contacted by CNN about the story he would only talk to them if they paid.
 
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