New to off camera flash and in need of some help!

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mattsnoise

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Matthew
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I'm just experimenting at the moment to see what I can achieve with light given that it is mostly grey and miserable outside, and very dim inside at the moment.

I'm using a Canon 1000D and have a Jessops 360AFD flashgun which I'm using as a slave at the moment. I have literally just figured out how it all works together with the intention of using it more creativley later in the week.

My query goes along the lines of this, oringinally I bought the flashgun because the built-in flash on the camera is a little nasty, and the flashgun allowed me to bounce the light in various other directions making it a bit nicer to use, however, now that I want to use the flashgun off camera, I have to have the built-in flash on for the flashgun to fire which almost puts me back in the position I was originally, with the nasty built-in flash. - is there any way round this? (apart from buying another flashgun!)
 
When you say you have to use the on board flash to use your gun off camera, is that because you are using a photo cell to fire it ?

If this is the case, you could adjust the flash exposure compensation to -2 stops which would help. Otherwise you will need to get a set of off camera flash triggers which work via a radio signal.

Steve
 
Ok - at the moment the flashgun will fire when off the camera in slave mode, because the onboard flash is also firing. The camera (I don't think) won't allow me fire the flash gun off camera without the built-in flash going off at the same time, although surely it isn't the flash its self that sends the signal to the flashgun, so shouldn't there be a way to use the flashgun off camera whilst not having to fire the built-in flash?

I'm not using any additional attatchment to send a radio signal or any form of signal to the flashgun, it is purely what's inside the camera.
 
mattsnoise said:
Ok - at the moment the flashgun will fire when off the camera in slave mode, because the onboard flash is also firing. The camera (I don't think) won't allow me fire the flash gun off camera without the built-in flash going off at the same time, although surely it isn't the flash its self that sends the signal to the flashgun, so shouldn't there be a way to use the flashgun off camera whilst not having to fire the built-in flash?

I'm not using any additional attatchment to send a radio signal or any form of signal to the flashgun, it is purely what's inside the camera.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, the 1000D doesn't have an "Off Camera Flash" facility, so the only way it could work is if the flash itself has a photo cell to fire it, or you attach one to it. The on board flash is used as the trigger.

The RF602 radio triggers are the answer, and they're not that expensive. Linky

Steve
 
I have to say I was surprised it could achieve even this level of wirelessness, if the only way to fire off camera flashguns without firing the built-in flash is to get a radio thingy then I shall look into it!

Thanks

- Just had a look at that link and its confused me - there seem to be a lot of wires for a wireless/ remote system. Theres obviosuly the box which plugs into the camera that transmits, and then the reciever box which connects via the hotshoe to your external flash. Will the setup require firing the flashes using a seperate button to taking the photo??? (sorry for being a novice!)
 
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You attach the transmitter to the hotshoe of the camera - no wire required.

The receiver is attached to the flash and a cable links the receiver and flash - the cable attaches to the pc socket on the flash (if it has one)? If it doesn't have one you can buy a small hotshoe attachment that has a pc socket.

That's it.

the hotshoe adapter fits underneath the flash and the receiver connects to it wihy a small wire and a 3.5mm jack (usually). When the transmitter is fired the flash fires :)

http://www.flashzebra.com/hotshoes-shoes/flash-hotshoes.shtml
they ship to the UK although Jessops should have the required adapters too relatively cheaply.
 
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EOS_JD said:
The receiver is attached to the flash and a cable links the receiver and flash - the cable attaches to the pc socket on the flash (if it has one)? If it doesn't have one you can buy a small hotshoe attachment that has a pc socket.
Click to expand...

New to OCF myself and just about to get some RF602's

Why would you need to use the cable at all?

Surely a setup as per the attached photo would need no wires?

YONGNUO-RF602-C1-24GHz-Wireless-Remote-Control-Shutter-Switch-for-Canon-1000D-450D-400D-350D-300D-500D-Pentax-K20D-K200D-K10D-K100D_5.jpg


Dan
 
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Presumably there is such a thing so I won't ask whether there is, but is there a reciever (that is cheap!) that will 'talk' to the flashgun without the use of a pc cable. Is there a type of reciever that would do it without a cable? - I'm just conscious theres a growing list of little bits that I'm likely to lose or not have at the right time and all sorts of things like that!


Ok - ignore what I've just put. Having read it all through again, the transmitter goes ontop of the camera attatched to the hotshoe and the reciever sits beneath the flash, but is actually connected to the flash by a pc wire. My flashgun doesn't have a pc socket so I would have to get a hotshoe adapter that has a pc socket so that the reciever can be connected to my flashgun.
What I'm asking is, is there such a system whereby the reciever is connected to the flashgun not by means of a pc wire, but just using the hotshoe connection? (the aim of this being it will save me using a pc wire and getting the adapter bits - just two more things to lose).

Also - am I right in thinking the transmitter transmits its signal when you press a button on the transmitter its self, in oppose to sending the signal when the button on the camera is pressed - would you have to press two buttons at the same time?
 
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Matthew, I'm still wiating for my above question to be answered regarding the cable but can confirm that you wont have to press two buttons at once.

The transmitter fires the flashes when you hit the trigger, with fast shutter speeds and the very little of time the flash outputs light it would be near on impossible to light a shot firing them yourself.

Dan
 
I'm under the impression that the pc cable is needed to connect the reciever to the flashgun but that image doesn't show that - whether its just for tidyness or whether is can work without the pc cable I don't know, if it does work without the cable that would be ideal.
 
I currently have some cheap and nasty (and unreliable) triggers/receivers from ebay and they dont use cables at all, pretty certain the RF602's are the same.

Will wait for a guru to correct me if I'm wrong.....
 
mattsnoise said:
I'm under the impression that the pc cable is needed to connect the reciever to the flashgun but that image doesn't show that - whether its just for tidyness or whether is can work without the pc cable I don't know, if it does work without the cable that would be ideal.
Click to expand...

The trigger unit goes on the camera hotshoe and the flashgun slots into the hotshoe on the receiver unit, no cables needed at all.

Depending on where you buy them there can be either one or two cables supplied with the RF602s (a certain UK seller used to take everything out the boxes, including the batteries and sell them as optional extras, not sure if he still does), so check what you are getting if buying these and check if you're actually getting the Canon-fit version.

The cable that should always come with the RF602s is to allow them to be used to trigger studio flashes, some sellers may still have stock of the version that includes an additional cable as a remote control for the camera, but they are scarce now and some sellers that do still have these in stock take the cables out the box and flog them on Ebay at a fiver each, so again check what you will be getting before making a purchase.
 
Told you a guru would come along, and its usually Graham... cheers mate.

So as expected, you wont need a cable unless you are using studio lights as there isnt hot shoes/cold shoes available to link it all together, pic below to illustrate.

studio_flash_RF_602.jpg


Dan
 
With Canon cameras there is also the ST-E2 unit that sits on the hotshoe and fires remote flash by use of infra red.

I have one and it works ko however IR does have limitations - particularly distance and reliability in bright sunlight. The plus side is that ETT-L is maintained whereas working with the cheaper radio solutions it's all manual.

As Graham states the flash with the hotshoe receiver won't need the cable. looks a neat solution.

As also mentioned the transmitter detects the signal when you press the shutter button. Signal is transferred to the receiver, flash fires. one press is all that's required.
 
Whats this ST-E2 unit then - I presume this is another seperate unit that sits on the hotshoe then? I may being quite narrow in terms of my next point but if possible I'd prefer to be able to use the eTTL given that both camera and flashgun can do it. I dare say I could learn (as this is what doing it is all about) to use flash manually, but if at all possible I could use an infrared system that will utilise the eTTL, then all the better!

I've looked at the Speedlite ST-E2 and its a little more than I want to spend at present - however having had the other system explained through that lovely diagram above I'm more convinced by it - I'm just going to need a crash course in manual flash management - surely there's not much more to it than the + / - compensation.

Thanks all!
 
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mattsnoise said:
Whats this ST-E2 unit then - I presume this is another seperate unit that sits on the hotshoe then? I may being quite narrow in terms of my next point but if possible I'd prefer to be able to use the eTTL given that both camera and flashgun can do it. I dare say I could learn (as this is what doing it is all about) to use flash manually, but if at all possible I could use an infrared system that will utilise the eTTL, then all the better!

I've looked at the Speedlite ST-E2 and its a little more than I want to spend at present - however having had the other system explained through that lovely diagram above I'm more convinced by it - I'm just going to need a crash course in manual flash management - surely there's not much more to it than the + / - compensation.

Thanks all!
Click to expand...

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/reviews/Canon-Speedlite-Transmitter-ST-E2-Review.aspx

When shooting in M flash, you need to use M on your camera too. In fact even with ett-l it's worth doing that.

The Aperture controls flash power and your shutter speed controls the amount of ambient light in the scene. Your shutter can't go above the max sync speed and you may find that using radio triggers will limit that also - My camera's max sync speed is 1/200th although the skyports limit that to around 1/125th - not a problem for many situations.

Certainly worth buying a book on the subject although you'll get help here :)
 
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mattsnoise said:
its just one thing then the next then the next!
Click to expand...

Isn't it just..... And how long has it taken you to find that bit out ? :lol:

Today a remote flash trigger, next week a full studio :D

Steve
 
Jelster said:
Isn't it just..... And how long has it taken you to find that bit out ? :lol:

Today a remote flash trigger, next week a full studio :D

Steve
Click to expand...


then you really start to spend money!
 
Now you mention it there is a studio 3 miles down the road that you can hire out for the day... with proper lights and everything :D
 
I got these from fleabay, arrived in 3 days and work a treat. Can sync upto 1/250 sec. They came with batteries also, be aware that some don't.
 
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