New Speeding Fines from Monday24/04/2017

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
 
I didn't even know that we'd started linking fines to income.

Are they ever linked or is it just a 'maximum' that courts ignore.
 
Read the comments, on the page, as the information supplied is not accurate.
 
yep seems reasonable.
we need to also stop those poncy speed awareness courses.
points should meen points.
 
Another short sighted money making scheme. Bad driving is the behaviour that needs addressing, not speeding in itself. Yes speeding "can" be an example of bad driving in some instances, but speeding in itself is not necessarily dangerous. I'd rather someone be driving over the speed limit and concentrating on what they are doing, than driving below the speed limit and on the phone, texting, or turning around going gaga to their child in the back. Unfortunately speed cameras are cheaper than traffic cops who can make a judgement on what is dangerous.

As I've said many times in the past, if speeding was inherently dangerous, how can some people be legally allowed to do it? (I for one was for over 30 years and didn't kill anyone)
 
rick448 said:
Another short sighted money making scheme. Bad driving is the behaviour that needs addressing, not speeding in itself. Yes speeding "can" be an example of bad driving in some instances, but speeding in itself is not necessarily dangerous. I'd rather someone be driving over the speed limit and concentrating on what they are doing, than driving below the speed limit and on the phone, texting, or turning around going gaga to their child in the back. Unfortunately speed cameras are cheaper than traffic cops who can make a judgement on what is dangerous.

As I've said many times in the past, if speeding was inherently dangerous, how can some people be legally allowed to do it? (I for one was for over 30 years and didn't kill anyone)
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yet the facts differ from your delusions

1. Speeding While Driving and Reckless Driving: Failing to follow the speed limit is the most common cause of traffic accidents

2. Use of Mobile Phone – Texting While Driving: The proliferation of mobile phone use has resulted an increased level of danger on our roads. In response national and state legislatures have passed strict anti texting laws; while the judicial system has begun to charge individuals who’s texting while driving resulted in deaths, with manslaughter.

3. Other forms of Distracted Driving – There are numerous types of distracted driving. Some of the most common types of distractions resulting in high incidences of traffic accidents include, eating, smoking, listening to loud music or changing the dial, reaching for objects in the vehicle, and looking or talking with other passengers in the vehicle.

4. Driver Fatigue – Falling Asleep in the Wheel – According to recently published data driver fatigue is the cause of 2.5-3.0 percent of all roadway related fatalities in the United States. Individual that have a history of falling asleep at the wheel may be prosecuted for a criminal offense.

5. Drunk Driving – and Driving While Under the Influence of a Narcotic Substance: According to studies driving while under the influence of alcohol results in a 900% increase in the probability of an auto accident.

6. Rubber-necking – Rubbernecking is another type of distracted driving and takes place when drivers look other things on the road not linked to their driving. Examples include watching other accidents, looking at sunsets, and nice views.

7. Defective Automobile and Automobile Parts – Common auto defects that can cause severe injuries to occupants include, tire defects, defective design of Sport Inutility Vehicles resulted in vehicles being more prone to rollovers, seatbelt defects and defective airbags.

8. Defects on Roadway Construction – The improper design of roadways result in hundreds of auto accident fatalities each year. Liable parties can include CALTRANS and construction contractors for improper installment of traffic lights and roadway signals.

9. Poor Weather Conditions – Example of weather condition posing the greatest dangers to motorists on the road includes, icy roads, high winds, and rain after a prolonged drought resultign in oily surfaces.

10. Improper Coning off of Construction Zones – Road work is needed to maintain and built the countries transportation infrastructure. However in many cases road construction crews fail to safely cordon off construction zones resulting in an increased probability of auto accidents.
 
All I see is a list, please site references?

I will take your number 1 point and say speeding and reckless driving are two very different things so you "facts" are off for a start.
 
If you really wanted to stop speeding in accident hotspots, you put a warning sign up followed by a speed camera. People will see the sign, slow down and hence reduce accidents.

This is nothing other revenue collection.

Edit: only 5% of accidents are due to excessive speed. The other causes are:

42% - failure to look properly
23% - failure to judge third party speed or path
17% - careless/reckless driving
15% - poor manoeuvre or turn
14% - loss of control
8% - travelling too fast for conditions
5% - exceeding the speed limit

(All taken from Facts on road fatalities, 2015, Dept of Transport)

Why concentrate on the 5% when the largest proportion of accidents is due to driver awareness and skill?
 
Last edited:
omens said:
If you really wanted to stop speeding in accident hotspots, you put a warning sign up followed by a speed camera. People will see the sign, slow down and hence reduce accidents.

This is nothing other revenue collection.
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There are always warning signs when you are entering an area where there are static speed cameras. There are also speed limit signs. Don't speed, you won't get fined. So how is that revenue collection?
 
I see average speed checks on virtually every dual carriageway over the next 10-20 years.

With fixed cameras the majority (myself included) slow down past them and just speed up after.

Average ones people have to stick to the speed for the entire length, although the cost may be prohibitive vs a fixed camera.

Do I speed? Yep, I do indeed but common sense prevails here. On the motorway I tend to match what most others are doing which is 80mph ish. In a 30 zone I might be doing 35 etc.

I am sure there will be the PC brigade telling me I am a shameful human being but so be it.

One thing I don't do however is significant above the limit. As I said, if the limit is 30, I might be doing 35 at most but I certainly wouldn't be doing 50.

Personally I think the motorway speed limits should be 80mph, most are doing this anyway and modern cars and significantly safer than they were when the limit was designed.

I'm not going to stand here and be a hypocrite by saying I stick to every single speed limit. The vast majority of other drivers are above the limit for the most part, even if it's just a few mph so if 10 people come on here saying they don't speed then I reckon at least half of them are lying based on what I see.
 
Mr Bump said:
yet the facts differ from your delusions

1. Speeding While Driving and Reckless Driving: Failing to follow the speed limit is the most common cause of traffic accidents

2. Use of Mobile Phone – Texting While Driving: The proliferation of mobile phone use has resulted an increased level of danger on our roads. In response national and state legislatures have passed strict anti texting laws; while the judicial system has begun to charge individuals who’s texting while driving resulted in deaths, with manslaughter.

3. Other forms of Distracted Driving – There are numerous types of distracted driving. Some of the most common types of distractions resulting in high incidences of traffic accidents include, eating, smoking, listening to loud music or changing the dial, reaching for objects in the vehicle, and looking or talking with other passengers in the vehicle.

4. Driver Fatigue – Falling Asleep in the Wheel – According to recently published data driver fatigue is the cause of 2.5-3.0 percent of all roadway related fatalities in the United States. Individual that have a history of falling asleep at the wheel may be prosecuted for a criminal offense.

5. Drunk Driving – and Driving While Under the Influence of a Narcotic Substance: According to studies driving while under the influence of alcohol results in a 900% increase in the probability of an auto accident.

6. Rubber-necking – Rubbernecking is another type of distracted driving and takes place when drivers look other things on the road not linked to their driving. Examples include watching other accidents, looking at sunsets, and nice views.

7. Defective Automobile and Automobile Parts – Common auto defects that can cause severe injuries to occupants include, tire defects, defective design of Sport Inutility Vehicles resulted in vehicles being more prone to rollovers, seatbelt defects and defective airbags.

8. Defects on Roadway Construction – The improper design of roadways result in hundreds of auto accident fatalities each year. Liable parties can include CALTRANS and construction contractors for improper installment of traffic lights and roadway signals.

9. Poor Weather Conditions – Example of weather condition posing the greatest dangers to motorists on the road includes, icy roads, high winds, and rain after a prolonged drought resultign in oily surfaces.

10. Improper Coning off of Construction Zones – Road work is needed to maintain and built the countries transportation infrastructure. However in many cases road construction crews fail to safely cordon off construction zones resulting in an increased probability of auto accidents.
Click to expand...

Anyone can wheel out "facts" to suit their own arguments. I'll stick to my delusions thank you.
 
nilagin said:
There are always warning signs when you are entering an area where there are static speed cameras. There are also speed limit signs. Don't speed, you won't get fined. So how is that revenue collection?
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absolutely this.

they only get money if muppets get caught breaking the prescribed speed limit.

no speeding drivers = no money.

i find those complaining the most about speed cameras are those that have been daft enough to get caught.
 
Everyone fined for speeding is making a voluntary contribution.
 
neil_g said:
absolutely this.

they only get money if muppets get caught breaking the prescribed speed limit.

no speeding drivers = no money.

i find those complaining the most about speed cameras are those that have been daft enough to get caught.
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But, it is just a tax, as has been been pointed out there are more common causes of accidents.

The issue is that hand on heart, non of us can say we have not sped. We are human and at times will not fully concentrate or realise that a speed limit has changed. It is easy to suddenly look down and see you are doing 36 in a 30 and if you are unlucky you get caught. I would rather people spent more time looking out the windows than at the speedo. So we make a small mistake and could get punished for that?

In addition, speed should be related to many things including time of day, other traffic and weather. An 85 year old in an old banger can do 70 on the M1 in rain at 4pm on a Friday but a 30 yo (so better reaction times) in a brand new BMW is more dangerous doing 85 at 630am on a Sunday morning?

We are the second safest country in the world for driving fatalities yet this obsession with speed persists?
 
neil_g said:
No it really isn't. It's a fine for breaking a law.

Don't want to pay it then you simply have to stay within the law.
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Very true. I've no issue with that and I'm prepared to take the hit if I'm caught. But let's not pretend any of this is about safety. Because it's not, does fining someone more because they earn more make anyone safer? Of course not! Does hiding safety cameras in areas of low risk but where drivers are known to speed make things safer? Erm no. But it does generate income.
 
neil_g said:
No it really isn't. It's a fine for breaking a law.

Don't want to pay it then you simply have to stay within the law.
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A law should be reasonable, I'm sure every member on this forum can think of a road with a 30mph limit that seems unjustified where another road is higher which should be lower

here in Warrington there's a road called cromwell avenue which is the main road for traffic getting to housing estates, on the section where the newly laid scamera van layby is there's no footpath, houses, driveways or junctions but it's 30mph and the van is regularly there

1/2 a mile away is westbrook way which until recently was 60mph with a footpath running the whole length right next to the road,a primary school the other side of the woods and a newly built housing estate opposite, it's recently been dropped to 40 but cars and bikes still hit 80+ down there because it's a long straight , do you ever see the camera van there to catch them or slow them down, no because the chances of catching the masses so they can go on a £100 awareness course is greater on cromwell avenue .

Another anomaly, they spent god knows how many thousands putting 20mph signs up at every housing estate YET the road that runs past the primary school is on a blind bend and it's 30
 
neil_g said:
No it really isn't. It's a fine for breaking a law.

Don't want to pay it then you simply have to stay within the law.
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Thats fine, but only a robot could drive and not break the speed limit ever. Sure, get caught going 60 in a 40, that is a choice, you dont do that by accident, but creeping up to 36 in a 30... we have all done this without thinking, but hey, lets penalise people for minor lapses of judgement!
 
cambsno said:
Thats fine, but only a robot could drive and not break the speed limit ever. Sure, get caught going 60 in a 40, that is a choice, you dont do that by accident, but creeping up to 36 in a 30... we have all done this without thinking, but hey, lets penalise people for minor lapses of judgement!
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As usual, the holier than though brigade are out in force. We all know the law, but as I've said ad nausium speeding is not the root cause.
 
The police guidelines used to be 10% plus 2 for prosecution. But these were guidelines, so on a motorway you should have been ok at 79mph. But with the advent Of speed cameras, and with the warning signs, this seems to have fallen by the wayside.

It's shocking to me that people think by making people stick to speed limits that we will all be safe!! In H&S terms it's like saying if you wear hi viz we will all be fine. It's short sighted....
 
rick448 said:
H&S terms it's like saying if you wear hi viz we will all be fine.
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Many years ago, when only the "select few" wore hi viz, people would take note.
These days every man and his dog wears one, and now very few people actually "see" them.

Case in point, I wear top to toe florescent yellow, for work. I called into my local Tesco's on the way home from work a few weeks back,
as I entered the the store a woman came out and bumped into me.
"Sorry" she said,
What I should have said was "OK love no problem"
But the Devil in me made me say "What's up? didn't you see me?" :D

Back to the speeding, just don't break the 11th commandment
"Thou shalt not get caught"

And your'll be fine :thumbs:
 
cambsno said:
Thats fine, but only a robot could drive and not break the speed limit ever. Sure, get caught going 60 in a 40, that is a choice, you dont do that by accident, but creeping up to 36 in a 30... we have all done this without thinking, but hey, lets penalise people for minor lapses of judgement!
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Sorry, but 36 in a 30 is avoidable.
If you're not aware, you're not concentrating.
 
viv1969 said:
Sorry, but 36 in a 30 is avoidable.
If you're not aware, you're not concentrating.
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Tell me if anyone out there can say that when they drive the concentrate 100% of the time when they drive with no exceptions? Of course we all should, and we all do the majority of the time but it is human nature that we slip up, the mind wandering, or simply just missing the fact it has changed from 40 to 30, or not slowing down to 30 before the sign rather than just after. Of course we probably should, but I am not perfect and I don't think anyone else is either. This is simply a tax and nothing to do with road safety?

Yes, I know you can get done for driving without due care and attention, but generally you don't get charged with that or punished when you have a prang - of course most people don't notify the police (aside from when an injury occurs). So, if someone hits me from behind at a roundabout (insurance claim aside) they get no penalty, while someone doing 36 in a 30 could be done... hmmm, I know which one I would chose to place the fine on.
 
cambsno said:
Tell me if anyone out there can say that when they drive the concentrate 100% of the time when they drive with no exceptions? Of course we all should, and we all do the majority of the time but it is human nature that we slip up, the mind wandering, or simply just missing the fact it has changed from 40 to 30, or not slowing down to 30 before the sign rather than just after. Of course we probably should, but I am not perfect and I don't think anyone else is either. This is simply a tax and nothing to do with road safety?
.
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I agree. Everyone at one time or another has broken the speed limit.
But speeding fines are NOT a tax.
They are, ultimately, avoidable.
Have I ever broken the speed limit?
I'm sure I have.
Have I ever been fined?
No.
Would I whine if I were fined?
No.
Just like I didn't whine when I received a fine for exceeding my allocated parking time.
I chose to exceed the time, and I paid the price.
 
rick448 said:
As usual, the holier than though brigade are out in force. We all know the law, but as I've said ad nausium speeding is not the root cause.
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that is true and i am sure you think it defends you but it means you are a criminal for speeding and I am not for not speeding.... its not rocket science.
 
Mr Bump said:
that is true and i am sure you think it defends you but it means you are a criminal for speeding and I am not for not speeding.... its not rocket science.
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So you have never, ever gone over the speed limit? Well done you!
 
This has turned into a right or wrong for speeding.. Your all missing the point of the thread that isn't about speeding.. It's about the fines..

Personally i think its about time and ALL fines should be means tested... Fine me 500 quid and fine david bekham 500 quid.. two totally different effectivness no matter what the crime ...
 
cambsno said:
Tell me if anyone out there can say that when they drive the concentrate 100% of the time when they drive with no exceptions? Of course we all should, and we all do the majority of the time but it is human nature that we slip up, the mind wandering, or simply just missing the fact it has changed from 40 to 30, or not slowing down to 30 before the sign rather than just after. Of course we probably should, but I am not perfect and I don't think anyone else is either. This is simply a tax and nothing to do with road safety?

Yes, I know you can get done for driving without due care and attention, but generally you don't get charged with that or punished when you have a prang - of course most people don't notify the police (aside from when an injury occurs). So, if someone hits me from behind at a roundabout (insurance claim aside) they get no penalty, while someone doing 36 in a 30 could be done... hmmm, I know which one I would chose to place the fine on.
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I concentrate and I am fully aware when I am speeding.

If you are caught driving without due care and attention, you will likely receive a fine for such, if you are not caught doing so, then you won't receive a fine. Same goes for speeding.
 
KIPAX said:
This has turned into a right or wrong for speeding.. Your all missing the point of the thread that isn't about speeding.. It's about the fines..

Personally i think its about time and ALL fines should be means tested... Fine me 500 quid and fine david bekham 500 quid.. two totally different effectivness no matter what the crime ...
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That maybe so but then someone who would get a £500 fine can probably not afford to lose 1.5 times a weeks wages, whilst someone like Beckham still wouldn't miss a week and a half wages and it certainly wouldn't cause him nor his family any hardship.
 
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KIPAX said:
This has turned into a right or wrong for speeding.. Your all missing the point of the thread that isn't about speeding.. It's about the fines..

Personally i think its about time and ALL fines should be means tested... Fine me 500 quid and fine david bekham 500 quid.. two totally different effectivness no matter what the crime ...
Click to expand...

Different effectiveness but ultimately 'you' committed the same crime - is it justifiable to punish people differently for the same offense? It wouldn't happen for a judicial sentence. How about people who appear to be on high income but who have little disposable income (e.g. high child support costs, paying off CCJs or loans for their business which has struggled over the last couple of years).

Imagine the the analysis of tickets under the new system - are Merc/BMW/luxury car drivers getting more tickets becasue they have cars that handle & accelerate better? Are they getting more tickets because of the mindset of the people who own them generally want to drive faster? Or are they getting more tickets becasue people who can afford those cars can afford a higher fine and are being targetted?
 
If you really wanted to crack down on speeding, you'd just issue blanket driving bans for anything 1mph over the speed limit. You would, at a stroke, massively reduce the temptation to speed. Why just increase the fine and not the points?
 
rick448 said:
As I've said many times in the past, if speeding was inherently dangerous, how can some people be legally allowed to do it? (I for one was for over 30 years and didn't kill anyone)
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You really need to ask that question? The road are bad enough without giving carte blanche to every driver to go as fast as they like!
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Imagine the the analysis of tickets under the new system - are Merc/BMW/luxury car drivers getting more tickets becasue they have cars that handle & accelerate better? Are they getting more tickets because of the mindset of the people who own them generally want to drive faster? Or are they getting more tickets becasue people who can afford those cars can afford a higher fine and are being targetted?
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Tinfoil hat time, I suppose they be including software into the cameras that distinguish between your run of the mill car and premium cars. :)
 
noneforit said:
One thing I don't do however is significant above the limit. As I said, if the limit is 30, I might be doing 35 at most but I certainly wouldn't be doing 50.
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I used to do that and then I went on a drivers awareness course and the difference in mortality rate if you do hit someone at 30 and 35 is quite staggering so now I just do 30. Sure not always as sometimes you just don't notice or you're just following the car in front but my mentality switched from being "an extra 5mph can't hurt" to "should be doing 30" and I am now much more compliant than I was before.

(Never had any points for speeding but got caught doing 36 in a section of road recently reduced from 40 to 30 and was sent to naughty drivers school).
 
Nawty said:
I used to do that and then I went on a drivers awareness course and the difference in mortality rate if you do hit someone at 30 and 35 is quite staggering so now I just do 30. Sure not always as sometimes you just don't notice or you're just following the car in front but my mentality switched from being "an extra 5mph can't hurt" to "should be doing 30" and I am now much more compliant than I was before.

(Never had any points for speeding but got caught doing 36 in a section of road recently reduced from 40 to 30 and was sent to naughty drivers school).
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I had a similar experience, driving into doncaster and missed the sign that reduced the limit from 50-40. Wouldn't mind but I saw the upcoming speed camera and checked my speed :). No excuse you should always be aware of the speed limit and I didn't come on here and shout about the injustice of it.

The difference that extra 5mph can make is due to how a car stops, its not linearly with each second the brake is pressed resulting in a equal lowering of the cars speed. Most of the stopping happens in the last third. I learnt that on naughty driver school too.
 
nilagin said:
That maybe so but then someone who would get a £500 fine can probably not afford to lose 1.5 times a weeks wages, whilst someone like Beckham still wouldn't miss a week and a half wages and it certainly wouldn't cause him nor his family any hardship.
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Which is still subject to a max, so Bechams fine will be

The bottom line is that fines should be linked to income to make them equal.

But there's a max of £1000 for speeding rising to £2500 on motorways.

£2500 as 175% of weekly income means it max's out at less than £75,000 a year. Anyone earning more than that gets a 'reduced' fine due to affordability :)
 
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