New Prime Minister, New Government

To get a referendum on independence the SNP would have to get it through parliament and as the SNP are a minority government that wont happen

Don't forget that the Scottish Parliament elections are 12 months away, that gives this coalition enough time to make an impression, if it's good the SNP won't do so well, if it's bad we could well see a majority SNP government in Scotland.

I'm a lifelong SNP voter, I believe that Scotland should be independent and would do well on it. I'm sure it would suit whiteflyer and others who think like him down in England too to have us out of their hair, although it would pretty much guarantee a Tory government in England forever more.
 
From a personal perspective, I'm much much worse off than I was under the last government. With all the stealth taxes etc I now have less to spend every month than previous years.

I am glad labour are out, I am prepared to give the Conservatives/lib dems the chance to reverse the damage that labour have done. It's not going to be easy, and they're going to have to make some hard/unpopular decisions, which may in the long term be their undoing.

I think you are missing the point as most people are... don't expect anyone who got elected this time to be able to put more money in your pocket - quite the reverse, they will have to take money off of you if they are to sort out the problems, together with massive cuts in public spending.

Thats the reality and its why everyone said that a political victory at this point is a poisoned challice.

For obvious reasons its gone rather quiet on the prospect that Cameron's favoured weapon to start to tackle the black hole is an increase on VAT. I don't think you need to be an economics expert to see how that will hit everyone...
 
I think you are missing the point as most people are... don't expect anyone who got elected this time to be able to put more money in your pocket - quite the reverse, they will have to take money off of you if they are to sort out the problems, together with massive cuts in public spending.

Thats the reality and its why everyone said that a political victory at this point is a poisoned challice.

For obvious reasons its gone rather quiet on the prospect that Cameron's favoured weapon to start to tackle the black hole is an increase on VAT. I don't think you need to be an economics expert to see how that will hit everyone...


No - I'm not missing the point - I don't think you're reading the whole of my post.

It's not going to be easy, and they're going to have to make some hard/unpopular decisions, which may in the long term be their undoing.

The damage to the economy that Labour have done needs to be undone. That will hit each one of us in the pocket. Hence it may be their undoing.
 
Because we are a civilized country where even the rights of those we despise are recognized. We have principles and values that shine like a beacon in a world of darkness. Many, many societies across the planet, from Angola to Zimbabwe, consider it acceptable to abuse and deny human rights. Admittedly it is often for political or ethnic reasons, but once we are on the slippery slope of selecting who qualifies for human rights and who doesn't there is no telling where it will end. Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

:agree:

As for coming OUT of Europe, it's not on the cards. Cameron has pledged not to give any new powers to Europe - a handily empty promise as there are no new treaties being proposed to do so.

A
 
Don't forget that the Scottish Parliament elections are 12 months away, that gives this coalition enough time to make an impression, if it's good the SNP won't do so well, if it's bad we could well see a majority SNP government in Scotland.

I'm a lifelong SNP voter, I believe that Scotland should be independent and would do well on it. I'm sure it would suit whiteflyer and others who think like him down in England too to have us out of their hair, although it would pretty much guarantee a Tory government in England forever more.

:agree:
 
In Scotland

In terms of the 59 seats

41 = Labour
11 = Lib Dem
6 = SNP
1 = Conservative

In terms of people

1,035,528 = Labour
491,386 = SNP
465,471 = Lib Dem
412,855 = Conservative

Pretty close in terms of votes between Lib Dem / Conservative / SNP despite the seats suggesting otherwise - but Labour were by far the winners.

Problem now is Salmond's SNP 'Braveheart' independence mush can be spoon fed to the majority of Scotland (not SNP) who are against a conservative government.

I voted tory myself, and I live in scotland. Some people see this as an excuse for independance(the country will be well and truly ******ed if that happened). The one good thing is Alex Salmond has said some stupid stuff and had a poor result in the Election.

I expect labour to win the scottish parliament election next year. Can't see their being any majority government in any case, and no co-alition will agree to an independance referendum.
 
My take on what needs to be done to get us out of this mess:-

Firstly, leaving the EU is a complete no. The rest of the club aren't going to say, "Thanks for popping in, here's a free trade agreement to help you on your way." It would be like House of Fraser leaving Bluewater and setting up a kerb-side stall.

Secondly, huge savings need to be made, but how can this be achieved with least damage to the economy? Well, when most families need to economise the first thing to go is normally the annual holiday......"Sorry Darling, we can't afford Afganistan this year, we'll just have to stay at home."

Likewise, if a new car purchase was planned before the family fell on hard times it would almost certainly be postponed...."Sorry Darling, we can't afford the new Ford Trident this year after all.

If things get really tough for the family they may have to take the regretful decision to forego a car completely........."Sorry Darling, we can't afford to keep our old Ford Trident going any longer, it costs too much, we have no money to buy a replacement and we don't really need it anyway. It'll have to go."

Despite times being hard, you've just discovered your teenage children, Lloyd and Scot, have been running up huge debts they can't afford to pay and you have to pick up the tab. They each have a job, so do you say, "That's OK, the debts are written off now, you can keep every penny that you earn." Or do you say, "I've helped you, but you'll have to repay me with every spare penny from your income and if you do get a bonus I'm having the whole lot?"

But just supposing you were the boss at work and able to decide your own pay increases and set your own limit for expenses claims. You'd be well off, right? But wouldn't that set a bad example to all those beneath you to whom you are always preaching the need for austerity measures because the company finances are so dire. I think if I was an MP I'd settle for £30K per annum and no expenses. Many people that voted for me would have to manage on less than that and surely I would need to experience their problems in order to understand what's holding the economy back. A basic dormitory type hostel, with communial kitchen, showers and lounge, could be set up for myself and colleagues who don't live near London.

Without doubt, from my own recent experiences, there is a huge amount of duplication and inefficiency within certain government and local authority departments. I'm sure that there is scope for substantial savings here, without cutting front line services.

Finally (for now), virtually all of Gordon Brown's economic boom years were built on consumer spending - spending money we hadn't got. Years before the "Credit Crunch" I realized that the bubble would eventually burst, that the train would one day hit the buffers - I just didn't think of calling it the Credit Crunch. But it's here, those days of false wealth built on unsustainable credit are well and truely over.

So what's going to generate an economic recovery if it's not going to be consumer spending? We urgently need to look at establishing new industries that actually make something we can sell, preferably abroad as well as at home. In the meantime, unless we are prepared to accept economic stagnation, we do need to massage consumer spending. A little pay and pension increase fuelled inflation wouldn't be a bad thing. After all, controlled and manageable inflation would, over a period of time, actually shrink both national and personal debt in real terms. The increased wages and spending would generate higher tax revenues out of proportion to the actual new money entering the economy due to the multiplier effect.

Like consumer credit, this wouldn't be sustainable for ever but it would buy us time to get some real increased productivity in the economy. But whatever happens I think we will all have to adjust to being a little poorer than we used to be, although this can be mitigated for the most vunerable by careful wealth redistribution through a fairer and more imaginative tax structure.

Also, as a nation I think the time has come to accept that we are no longer a global power or major player in foreign affairs. We need to become a little more parochial and worry more about problems at home rather than what's happening abroad.
 
Disagree John, we stand to lose £10bn if other countries go the way of Greece as well as contributing £45m a day to the EU, money which can be better spent. Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU but they dont do too badly. They still trade with EU countries.

Going a bit Monty Python, but what has Europe done for us? While I am sure there are things, is it worth the money we spend?
 
what has Europe done for us? While I am sure there are things, is it worth the money we spend?

"Europe" is all about building financial bonds in a very real sense that make it impossible for there to be a war between member states.

Thats what its all about.

Does it work? Well, Germany and France haven't knocked heads on the field of battle in 65 years so it seems to be working reasonably well...

Worth it? Yes, the cost of even a "small" 6 month war between major nations is beyond comprehension - even if you aren't directly involved!
 
What are they going to do about replacing Trident? Tories say replace, Lib-Dems say scrap! And the coalition says?

Ok, formal answer on this one - an email from Cameron at about 11am this morning to all of those who had signed up for Tory propaganda broadcasts during the election said:

...Of course, we must recognise that all coalitions are about compromise. This one is no different. And I want to take this opportunity to reassure about what was agreed.

The agreement commits the next government to a significantly accelerated reduction in the budget deficit, to cut £6bn of government waste this financial year and to stop the jobs tax. The agreement also allows us to carry out key elements of the reform agenda we outlined in our manifesto – an agenda vital to turning our country round – including welfare and school reform. Moreover, we have protected our nuclear deterrent. And there will be no amnesty for illegal immigrants, nor the handover of any additional powers to the EU...


So that'll be the Lib Dems having taken it up the proverbial on that point.

I've also just read that the Green Party have offered refuge for disillusioned Lib Dems... I guess that will be a few extra members for them!
 
I wonder how much of the Tory gain this time around came from 'new voters', the ones who are too young to remember the Thatcher years.

Ahhhhhhhhh but they all remember the Blair/Brown fiasco governments........
 
about time Scotland got a taste of their own medicine.

Oh yes please - so long as we can administer it ourselves! :)

Some people see this as an excuse for independance(the country will be well and truly ******ed if that happened).

You have no evidence to support that statement at all. Other small countries do very well being independent - Scotland would as well. We don't need tories in Scotland!
 
Ahhhhhhhhh but they all remember the Blair/Brown fiasco governments........

I'm sure they do and in 15 years there will be a whole new generation who don't, the circle of life etc.

In the long term one party is as bad as the other, because too many MPs are career politicians who have no real experience of being on the other side of the fence.
 
We don't need tories in Scotland!

They can be entertaining, especially when they go off on one and run around brandishing a pickaxe at hippies protestors :naughty:

allanstewart.jpg
 
Oh yes please - so long as we can administer it ourselves! :)



You have no evidence to support that statement at all. Other small countries do very well being independent - Scotland would as well. We don't need tories in Scotland!

Iceland and Ireland have done so well haven't they?, they've not had any financial issues or had to get handouts from the EU at all either......

Scotland has far more issues than many of these countries that are independant, and in reality i don't see it working. If Scotland had stronger trade, lower unemployment and didn't have the social problems, it could work.

I'm not anti SNP. I actually think they've done OK since the last Scottish Election, and would think about voting for them. I am like a lot of people who would (maybe) vote SNP but no to independance.

I've not seen any decent evidence to support Scottish Independance, and i don't see how it would work out.
 
Im glad gordon brown is out, insulting pensioners during his campaigning really didnt do him any good either. I think its finally time for a fresh new government. We can finally see what cameron is made of, after all he has been complining for a long time that gordon brown has run this country into the ground, so now is his chance to prove he can pick it up and make it better. Im also glad that the liberals are in as well. We have lived by a tory government for years and a labour government for years too, its nice to give the liberals a chance finally i mean they cant make this country any worse than it already is.

Also anyone think that gordon browns walk out of downing street looked just like when the mitchells were evicted from the queen vic in eastenders?
 
Scotland has far more issues than many of these countries that are independant, and in reality i don't see it working. If Scotland had stronger trade, lower unemployment and didn't have the social problems, it could work.

If the last Tory government hadn't syphoned off all of Scotland's oil revenue and decimated our industry we would have stronger trade, lower unemployment and fewer social problems......
 
If the last Tory government hadn't syphoned off all of Scotland's oil revenue and decimated our industry we would have stronger trade, lower unemployment and fewer social problems......

.........could say the same for England come to that! :D
 
I think that, given the passion that politics can evoke, this thread has been remarkably well conducted and people with all shades of opinion have demonstrated commendable tolerance of opinions that differ from their own. The OP was quite clear and set the scene admirably so that this could be achieved.

The problem with similar threads being started at random is that unless the tone is carefully established from the outset it can all go horribly wrong frighteningly quickly, before any of the mods are even aware of it. There was never any danger of that with the manner in which this thread was carefully introduced with full mod supervision and the positve way that members have responded fully vindicates this policy.
 
I was not surprised in the slightest at the swing in England, as after 13 years of any party in power, many people would look for a change.
There was two things that did really surprise me about the election.
Firstly the Scottish voters delivered almost an identical result as they did five years earlier.
Secondly, Labour apparently keen to offer a chance of PR, for a LibLab coalition. Certainly if PR did exist, in Scotland, Labour would be the big losers, and the Conservatives the winners.

In Scotland

In terms of the 59 seats

41 = Labour
11 = Lib Dem
6 = SNP
1 = Conservative

In terms of people

1,035,528 = Labour
491,386 = SNP
465,471 = Lib Dem
412,855 = Conservative

Pretty close in terms of votes between Lib Dem / Conservative / SNP despite the seats suggesting otherwise - but Labour were by far the winners.

Problem now is Salmond's SNP 'Braveheart' independence mush can be spoon fed to the majority of Scotland (not SNP) who are against a conservative government.
 
the positve way that members have responded fully vindicates this policy.

I still don't think I want to come to a photography forum to discuss politics - or anything else - other than photography. There are plenty places on the net to discuss politics. It is not in any way relevant to photography.
 
At the end of the day if you wanted to post about it then be happy that there is a thread. If you don't - just don't click on the one thread that has been allowed.

I am a little embarrassed by my lack of political knowledge and have tried really hard this time around to take a proper interest and fully understand what's going on. I voted Tory because their policies appealed to me the most - simple as that. I'm one half of a young working couple, no children, sensible sized savings account, rent a property. I am all for cutting child trust funds / family tax credits and reducing welfare dependency.

Obviously the current state of the country influenced my decision but otherwise I didn't take into account any previous actions by any of the parties - partly through ignorance if I'm being honest.

(EDIT - by "previous actions" I mean harking back to a specific period - like the Thatcher years - and letting that cloud my judgment of what each party has to offer now)
 
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I still don't think I want to come to a photography forum to discuss politics - or anything else - other than photography. There are plenty places on the net to discuss politics. It is not in any way relevant to photography.

So why are you spending so much time participating in this particular thread? I am sure there are at least several other active threads running at the moment which do concentrate soley on photography. :shrug:

Although this topic may have no direct relevance to photography, indirectly it potentially could have a massive influence over the comming months and years. Will the new Government relax some of the laws that affect photographers such as parts of the Counter Terrorism Act, or will they tighten them still further? How will the change of government affect the economic recovery, if indeed there is to be one? This could have a massive effect on the businesses of many professional togs, making the difference between success or failure. Will the finances of the amateur tog be squeezed so severely that many have to give up the hobby or at least refrain from anticipated new purchases?

Like it or not, as photographers we all have a vested interest in politics and, as it is a very diverse and inexact science, we are likely as a group to represent many shades of opinion. So yes, I do believe this thread is relevant to the forum. But as I said, it is not compulsory!
 
So why are you spending so much time participating in this particular thread? I am sure there are at least several other active threads running at the moment which do concentrate soley on photography. :shrug:

Although this topic may have no direct relevance to photography, indirectly it potentially could have a massive influence over the comming months and years. Will the new Government relax some of the laws that affect photographers such as parts of the Counter Terrorism Act, or will they tighten them still further? How will the change of government affect the economic recovery, if indeed there is to be one? This could have a massive effect on the businesses of many professional togs, making the difference between success or failure. Will the finances of the amateur tog be squeezed so severely that many have to give up the hobby or at least refrain from anticipated new purchases?

Like it or not, as photographers we all have a vested interest in politics and, as it is a very diverse and inexact science, we are likely as a group to represent many shades of opinion. So yes, I do believe this thread is relevant to the forum. But as I said, it is not compulsory!

You are like an eloquent version of my brain :)
 
Okay, back on track. Under Labour, we've seen the misuse of Section 44 by PCSO's and security guards etc requesting police as if you are pointing an RPG at their building, more CCTV cameras per person than any other country in the world. When the next attack happens, they'llbe asking for any footage/photos that anyone had around the time of the attack. It'll be all bobbins phone photos OOF because all the DLSRs were banned from the area by the above.


Yet they still can't spot the scallies when they smash a bus stop or set light to bollards in the early hours. More real police are needed on the beat that know their neighbourhoods. Respect is earned.
 
Well, we are so far off topic now that we'll probably need a compass to get back on track. Would that be, I wonder, the "moral compass" that seems to have become one of the latest buzz words for politicians?

There, I think we've refocused (that should also please the photography purists who have strayed here by accident), now where were we?

Ah yes, I was going to acknowledge to Flash In The Pan that my comment about England being equally affected as Scotland by previous Torry administrations was rather flippant and tongue-in-cheek. :)
 
I have given this thread a bit of a clean - we almost made it 24 hours without pandemonium. Lets please now keep this thread on the original topic and NOT about the existence of the thread itself. :) thanks
 
Well, we are so far off topic now that we'll probably need a compass to get back on track. Would that be, I wonder, the "moral compass" that seems to have become one of the latest buzz words for politicians?

There, I think we've refocused (that should also please the photography purists who have strayed here by accident), now where were we?

Ah yes, I was going to acknowledge to Flash In The Pan that my comment about England being equally affected as Scotland by previous Torry administrations was rather flippant and tongue-in-cheek. :)

Whoops! I see that whilst I was posting this the thread has been cleaned up remarkably well and it doesn't appear that we were ever very far off topic at all. I'm impressed, you can hardly see the joins! :D

Edit: I see from Jimmy Lemon's last post that the subject of thread cleaning has already been delt with. I'm in danger of unwittingly leading us round in circles. Mods, please delete this post as it is no longer relevant. Thak you.
 
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I think that, given the passion that politics can evoke, this thread has been remarkably well conducted and people with all shades of opinion have demonstrated commendable tolerance of opinions that differ from their own. The OP was quite clear and set the scene admirably so that this could be achieved.

Well said.
TBH I'm surprised to see this still open, and apart from a few exceptions (which strangely were all to do with this thread rather than politics) I think everyone has been extremely sensible in here :thumbs:

IMHO this is the right result and the fair result. Personally I'm relieved that any thought of a labour led coalition were binned, as I think that would have been a disaster and totally unreflective of the public vote.

Depends what you mean by the 'public vote', in terms of seats won the liberals did badly but in terms of actual votes cast the three parties are all fairly close (con 36%, Lab 29%, LD 23%). This is a perfect example of why our current electoral system is so bad, the first past the post system doesn't reflect what the voters actually voted for.

I think that whichever way you cut the results that this was a fair outcome and representative of public opinion.
In terms of either seats or votes cast, the conservatives were out in front and are deserving of a chance at government.
Again, IMO it's only right that the resulting government should be a coalition to reflect the closeness in the results and the fact that it wasn't an overwhelming win.

I absolutely agree with you that the "first past the post" system isn't a fair voting system and I'm glad that this is one of the changes likely to come out of the new government.

I wonder how much of the Tory gain this time around came from 'new voters', the ones who are too young to remember the Thatcher years.

Personally, I don't think that is such a bad thing.
The world's moved on since the "Thatcher Years" and so have the major parties. I think the priority should be on voting for what's right for the country in the here and now - not on events in the past.
 
:lol: :lol: :lol:
OK Ignore that!

Looks like the cleaning fairies have been at work while I was typing - and now I look like I was talking nonsense!

You should be a politician, you'd do well! :D
 
I still don't think I want to come to a photography forum to discuss politics - or anything else - other than photography. There are plenty places on the net to discuss politics. It is not in any way relevant to photography.

nobody is forcing you to view this thread or make it compulsary to take part. and this isnt strictly the photography section this is the off topic which means you can chat about anything. You say you dont want to come to a photography and discuss politics.... well don't simple.

You make it sound like we are discussing the pros and cons of abortion or child abuse. I mean is politics such a taboo subject?
 
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So will the new Con-Lib coalition work, well I do hope so , because as they say we need a strong and stable government, but boy oh boy do the media want it to fail. You can tell by the current news coverage the media is just dying for in party fighting.

If this does work well, the media are going to have to start to do real journalism, and stop speculating about how it will all end in tears.
 
Its a hard one to call, simply because its a totally new ball game, like having wickets at one end of the pitch and goalposts at the other, and somewhere in the middle they have to compromise on which ball they use and whether some bats should be waved around.

Born and bred a labour supporter, as a business owner I have found the last few years under Labour...difficult....shall we say so, I HOPE this new coalition does work. Many of the compromises have rather nicely taken the plus bits of both manifestos from my point of view, so one can live in hope. It wont be easy for anyone, and no doubt some choices will make some of us uneasy.

Glad Gordon has gone and does anyone remember John Major after about a year or so of being out of office, never did a man finally look so relaxed and content with his lot, I do genuinely hope GB finds the same contentment, because whilst he was a useless PM, I don't think even he deserved some of the bad luck that came his way :lol:

so, Sarah for next PM then? Do you fancy a party leadership role too, I beleive there may be a job vacancy :naughty:
 
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