New Prime Minister, New Government

[PsiFox]

I'm disappointed in the Liberal Democrats though. I know a lot of people in Scotland voted for them and Labour and instead they've got the Conservatives. A party which only holds one seat in Scotland. Hardly representative... but at the end of the day Scotland is still part of the UK and in the greater scheme of things that is what matters.

Far be it for me to suggest that if the people of Scotland don't like it then they do have their own assembly. Oh so do wales and sort of Northern Ireland.
Now where is the English Assembly.......... Now thats a whole new argument, sorry discussion

 

[realspeed]

Having lived under both Labour and Conservative governments each time labour has got in they have drained to country dry financially, unfortunately some can only see what they can personnally gain in the short term. I remember the last time labout got in and borrowed so much from the International Monetary fund they wouldn't lend any more .
They did the same this time, left us in a financial mess and blamed it on global affairs, and we are last to come out of recession.

Also Labour sold off our gold reserves at a well below market price to prop up their throw away schemes. Look at the big companies that have folded or been taken over by foreign countries the last in a long line being Cadburys.

I am not saying the Conservatives are snowy white either but they understand that helping firms to expand means an increase of jobs and less unemployment. Ok some of their concerns don't favour some sections of society and some of their policies are open to question.

The way I look at is , if you havn't got the money to spend then don't borrow, save up until you can afford, something the Labour Party can't seem to understand.

Realspeed

 

[desantnik]

it will be interesting to see how they work together with the lib/dems moderating the conservative hard liners.

You do know that the conservative back benches haven't actually been told of the deal thats gone down here and neither will have most of the Lib Dems either...

The exact details won't be known to anyone until a least a few days time.

I think you will see the cracks appearing (on both sides) far sooner than you might think.

I don't think Clegg and Cameron have any more chances at keeping their loonies under control than Brown did yesterday/today - expect some people trying to make a name for themselves by saying things like "I aint going along with this Lib/Tory* (*delete as appropriate) XYZ policy, it goes against my soul"

 

[realspeed]

I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable about politics and the party policies, but this is new for me. I'm not sure how it's going to work out but I'm eager to see how it all unfolds. I was and still am a big supporter of Gordon Brown. He did a lot of things wrong but he took responsibility. He also got a lot of things right and made the decisions I think few other people would have wanted to make. I think as time goes by people will see how good a man he is. I don't think his legacy is immediately recognisable, but one which will become evident in the long term. That's what I believe.

I'm disappointed in the Liberal Democrats though. I know a lot of people in Scotland voted for them and Labour and instead they've got the Conservatives. A party which only holds one seat in Scotland. Hardly representative... but at the end of the day Scotland is still part of the UK and in the greater scheme of things that is what matters. I hope the coalition does a good job. There is a lot riding on it. If you think Gordon had some tough decisions to make, Cameron and Clegg have got a whole other level to deal with in making sure economic recovery doesn't stall.

I remember the last time this happened and another general election had to be called before the term of government was due to finish. My bet is that is what will happen again within a year is my opinion.

Realspeed

 

[tiler65]

I'm disappointed in the Liberal Democrats though. I know a lot of people in Scotland voted for them and Labour and instead they've got the Conservatives. A party which only holds one seat in Scotland. Hardly representative... but at the end of the day Scotland is still part of the UK and in the greater scheme of things that is what matters. I hope the coalition does a good job. There is a lot riding on it. If you think Gordon had some tough decisions to make, Cameron and Clegg have got a whole other level to deal with in making sure economic recovery doesn't stall.

I am sorry for if I am about to upset you KayJay or any other Scottish folk.............

My MP is Scottish, I live in England, he voted against giving the English free prescriptions but for the Scottish to receive free ones (and NI for that matter).

I see him quite often and tackled him on the very point, he was quite honest and said it was to stop the SNP gaining ground, go figure.

I am not xenophobic but there does appear to be a mismatch in home nationalities 'representing' our UK.

Once again I am not being prejudice, just observing, so I apologise if I offend anyone.


I love Scotland by the way.............

 

[Graham00]

I'd like to think there would be tougher sentances for criminals not soft on crime making the victim hard done by, health and safety relaxed to let firms 'breath', a cap on immigration, lower fuel prices and council bosses not earning 6 figure salaries making an ordinary skilled manual worker feel like a shanty town dweller.

Cameron's the man, out of europe should be the plan !

 

[KayJay]

I am sorry for if I am about to upset you KayJay or any other Scottish folk.............

My MP is Scottish, I live in England, he voted against giving the English free prescriptions but for the Scottish to receive free ones (and NI for that matter).

I see him quite often and tackled him on the very point, he was quite honest and said it was to stop the SNP gaining ground, go figure.

I am not xenophobic but there does appear to be a mismatch in home nationalities 'representing' our UK.

Once again I am not being prejudice, just observing, so I apologise if I offend anyone.


I love Scotland by the way.............

Didn't upset me. I'm not a supporter of the idea that Scotland should be an independent country. I'd love nothing more than to see the SNP become and remain a minority party. They have one thing on their agenda and one thing only. That's not the sort of party I support.

Given the strong individual identities each country in the UK has there is always going to be a mismatch when it comes to representing the UK as a whole as opposed to representing themselves as individuals.

 

[Craft]

I'll go with what realspeed says.

To be fair I haven't done badly under labour, low mortgage rate means its being overpaid quite nicely at the moment.. I don't "do" debt. But what has appalled me is the deceit and constant lying and blame shifting we've all got used to from Labour. Gold, pensions, farces like ID cards and DNA databases, military funding, the whole Dr David Kelly thing that they've neatly hidden from us for the next 60 odd years. The huge expanse of public service and countless quangos.. the list is endless.

I totally agree with Marcel on the moral and social decline too. To quote a certain Mr Gallagher "Is it worth the aggravation/to find yourself a job when there's nothing worth working for?/it's a crazy situation, but all I need is cigarettes and alcohol."
Thats an attitude that no-one should have and that simply put this country cannot afford.

When anything didn't go right it was anybodys fault except their own.

Too young to really remember Thatcher, but from what I read she took over a country that was in a mess, not everything she did was right and sure as hell it didn't make her popular, but things did get back on track.
It seems that Cameron needs to do the same, it wont be as brutal as maggie vs the unions but I think we'll all find it tough.

Cameron has a huge amount to prove to us now. Its not as simple as if he had a outright majority, but I guess its going to test his negotiation skills!
I think if he gets it wrong he'll be ousted fairly easily.

Another election ? not so sure now. I think he's going to want to get on with the job.

Labour have to get rid of Campbell and Mandelson, then they need to find someone with some charisma as leader. Right now I'm not seeing anyone!

 

[desantnik]

Social decline? Do none of you remember the 80's and more importantly the early 90's?

Thats where your mass consumerism and "greed is good, stuff the rest" came from

 

[Craft]

Social decline? Do none of you remember the 80's and more importantly the early 90's?

Thats where your mass consumerism and "greed is good, stuff the rest" came from

Can you expand on that a bit because err, I don't remember (bit too young to of fully appreciated what was going on at the time).

In the last 10 years things have definitely gone downhill on this score - yes we always had the workshy but the "chav" element who live off benefits is a fairly new phenomenon I think ?

 

[desantnik]

No, living off of benefits was a thing Thatcher and friends tried to stamp out - you can tell they didn't manage it can't you...

They weren't called chavs back then, they were dole scrounging scum then. I guess thats progress ;-)

 

[KayJay]

The thing about social decline is I'm not sure how much of it can be blamed on the government. If you can't raise your kids right that's not the governments fault. On one hand people moan about nanny states and then on the other moan because the government doesn't do enough to punish criminals. Sure, tougher sentences would be good, but the root of the problem occurs long before. Kids hanging on street corners, lighting fires, throwing fireworks at people, scratching cars, stealing sweets while their parents are at home sitting in front of X-Factor not having a clue what their kids are up to is not the governments fault. It's a pet hate of mine. Responsibility. A lot of the country's problems could be fixed by us the people taking responsibility.

 

[goldenlight]

Crushed the NUM under the heel of her boot when Arthur Scargill tried to hold the country to ransom by threatening the energy supply, thereby ending the political power of the big unions.

It had to be done. We can't have union leaders determining government economic policy. That was her legacy, not the Falklands, not privatization and not the poll tax. It was freeing the country from the yoke of the union barons.

.....and thereby condemming many working people to cynical exploitation by unscrupulous employers motivated by corporate greed. How is that good? :shrug:

Still, it worked out well for our coal industry, didn't it?

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Too young to really remember Thatcher, but from what I read she took over a country that was in a mess, not everything she did was right and sure as hell it didn't make her popular, but things did get back on track.

That's an understatement -she wiped out of most of Britain's heavy industry, handed the utilities (south of the border) to private companies and caused the Tories to lose all but one MP north of the border for the next 20 years....

Thatcher was every bit as unpopular as Brown until the Argentinians decided they wanted the an insignificant rock just off their coast back. If it hadn't been for the Falklands War history wouldn't view her favourably at all.

 

[goldenlight]

No, living off of benefits was a thing Thatcher and friends tried to stamp out - you can tell they didn't manage it can't you...

They weren't called chavs back then, they were dole scrounging scum then. I guess thats progress ;-)

The vast majority of people on benefits need benefits. From personal experience I can say it is far from easy to claim benefits, quite the opposite in fact, and I'm certain that many who are entitled simply don't bother because the system is so daunting.

O.K. you will always get some who work out how to abuse the system but I don't accept it is anywhere near as many as those venerable journals of truth and honest reporting, "The Daily Fail" and "The Pun," would have you believe.

 

[Adamski]

I'd like to think there would be tougher sentances for criminals not soft on crime making the victim hard done by, health and safety relaxed to let firms 'breath', a cap on immigration, lower fuel prices and council bosses not earning 6 figure salaries making an ordinary skilled manual worker feel like a shanty town dweller.

Cameron's the man, out of europe should be the plan !

Graham, agree with your comments about crime. Wasn't it one of Blair's early statements - Tough on crime, Tough on the causes of crime.

The ASBO's are useless (good old Blunkett). PCSO's can only issue tickets, pour booze away and tell people off. People want real coppers walking the beat again and the little swines being afraid of having their collar felt by the local sargeant. Judges should also deal out proper sentences, if you kill someone with a knife then you should be prepared to get the full 25 years. Nothing like 5 years because he had a difficult childhood etc.

Hopefully the Justice system will get sorted and the repeat offenders will get locked up earlier.

 

[goldenlight]

Graham, agree with your comments about crime. Wasn't it one of Blair's early statements - Tough on crime, Tough on the causes of crime.

The ASBO's are useless (good old Blunkett). PCSO's can only issue tickets, pour booze away and tell people off. People want real coppers walking the beat again and the little swines being afraid of having their collar felt by the local sargeant. Judges should also deal out proper sentences, if you kill someone with a knife then you should be prepared to get the full 25 years. Nothing like 5 years because he had a difficult childhood etc.

Hopefully the Justice system will get sorted and the repeat offenders will get locked up earlier.

Err, why only 25 years? Surely "life" should mean just that - until you are carried out in a box, no matter how long that may take.

 

[Adamski]

Err, why only 25 years? Surely "life" should mean just that - until you are carried out in a box, no matter how long that may take.

This was taken from Jack Straw who amended the law last year - 'people who kill with a knife should face at least 25 years in jail' I agree with you though.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Err, why only 25 years? Surely "life" should mean just that - until you are carried out in a box, no matter how long that may take.

Life should mean life in a small cell, 23 hours a day with no tv, dvd, phone or any of the other "human rights" that prisoners have nowadays.

If you deprive someone of their human rights by murdering them, or raping them you should automatically forefeit the right to be treated as "human".

 

[goldenlight]

Life should mean life in a small cell, 23 hours a day with no tv, dvd, phone or any of the other "human rights" that prisoners have nowadays.

If you deprive someone of their human rights by murdering them, or raping them you should automatically forefeit the right to be treated as "human".

I understand the sentiment but I believe it is the purpose of a civilized society to protect those that live lawfully and peacefully within it from the barbarians, not to become barbaric itself. I don't look upon prison as a punishment (for some crimes what could possibly constitute adequate punishment?) but rather a means to protect the public from dangerous criminals, for life if appropriate. Accepting that they will be deprived of their freedom indefinitely on account of other citizen's human rights taking precedence, I still believe that all prisoners have human rights, although they may have to be limited in certain situations for reasons of security, amongst others.

 

[Keith W]

I dont want Cameron in but I am also sure that this may allow Alex Salmond to win the referendum on Scotland's Independence, which I dont want. Its all so up in the air.

To get a referendum on independence the SNP would have to get it through parliament and as the SNP are a minority government that wont happen

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I understand the sentiment but I believe it is the purpose of a civilized society to protect those that live lawfully and peacefully within it from the barbarians, not to become barbaric itself. I don't look upon prison as a punishment (for some crimes what could possibly constitute adequate punishment?) but rather a means to protect the public from dangerous criminals, for life if appropriate. Accepting that they will be deprived of their freedom indefinitely on account of other citizen's human rights taking precedence, I still believe that all prisoners have human rights, although they may have to be limited in certain situations for reasons of security, amongst others.

I'm sorry, but it's not in any way "barbaric" to deprive a rapist or murder of the right to watch dvds or go to the gym or undertake a degree course....

 

[cambsno]

I would have voted Tory but didnt as a) I dont like Cameron (although the way he has acted in the last week has impressed me a lot) and b) I am in a safe Tory seat so voted UKIP as a bit of a protest at us spending £45m PER DAY on the EU - money that could pay for a good payrise for nurses, pay for tax cuts as well as other improvements.

I actually quite like a lot of Lib Dem MPs but cant stand their approach to immigration or EU, maybe with Tories taking the lead it may calm them down.

 

[cambsno]

I'd like to think there would be tougher sentances for criminals not soft on crime making the victim hard done by, health and safety relaxed to let firms 'breath', a cap on immigration, lower fuel prices and council bosses not earning 6 figure salaries making an ordinary skilled manual worker feel like a shanty town dweller.

Cameron's the man, out of europe should be the plan !

 

[cambsno]

I understand the sentiment but I believe it is the purpose of a civilized society to protect those that live lawfully and peacefully within it from the barbarians, not to become barbaric itself. I don't look upon prison as a punishment (for some crimes what could possibly constitute adequate punishment?) but rather a means to protect the public from dangerous criminals, for life if appropriate. Accepting that they will be deprived of their freedom indefinitely on account of other citizen's human rights taking precedence, I still believe that all prisoners have human rights, although they may have to be limited in certain situations for reasons of security, amongst others.

Can anyone tell me why people like Ian Huntley should get ANY human rights?

 

[whiteflyer]

Thank god Brown and Labour are out, as a single childless working man Labour have done nothing for me at all.

Brown did one good thing in making the Bank of England independent of government interference, but what about the things he did wrong.

Lets start with the tax raid on company and private pensions, now estimated to be worth over £100Bn.

He then sold our gold reserves of at the bottom of the market, he did this by a pre announced auction further lowering the price and against the advice of the treasury civil servants, estimated loss now at £5Bn or more.

There was the total 10p Tax cock-up

When he bought the failing banks he paid £1.34 a share on the very same day the stock market was selling those very same shares for 96p God knows how much he wasted on that error.

The first two years he was chancellor he stuck to the Tory spending plans, EVERY year since he over spend and had to borrow more money, reporting back to parliament that he got his sums wrong and would have to borrow even more. It is this debt we now have to pay back £170Bn, this has NOTHING to do with what we bailed the banks out with, that's just money on loan till we re-privatize the banks, the £170Bn is Browns over spending debt.


Now if your part of the UK baby breeding industry you have done OK under brown, what with family tax credits even going to some couples earning over £50K and the baby bond so your offspring can have a tax payer paid party/holiday at 18.


Now what did Labour do over the past 13 years.

Got us involved in countless wars
Removed our right to a trail by jury
Scraped the idea of innocent before proven guilty
Countless other civil liberty's have been disregarded or worse abolished, under the total pretence of anti-terror laws.
Opened the doors to millions of EU immigrants, when Tony Blair said only 14 thousand would come (other EU country's had the foresight to put a limit on the numbers allowed)

Oh and they LIED LIED and LIED again, they did this over the Iraq war and what every happened to the promised referendum on the EU constitution.


The problem for the new government is the same one they had in 79, they will have to make very un-popular decisions to pull us out of the debt ridden hole left by a labour government.

They have made an excellent start right from the off, by announcing fixed term parliaments. This is something I have wanted for many years,and will give whom ever is in government time to let policy work through the system and not going for an instant popularity policy and jumping for a snap election.

 

[dinners]

In Scotland

In terms of the 59 seats

41 = Labour
11 = Lib Dem
6 = SNP
1 = Conservative

In terms of people

1,035,528 = Labour
491,386 = SNP
465,471 = Lib Dem
412,855 = Conservative

Pretty close in terms of votes between Lib Dem / Conservative / SNP despite the seats suggesting otherwise - but Labour were by far the winners.

Problem now is Salmond's SNP 'Braveheart' independence mush can be spoon fed to the majority of Scotland (not SNP) who are against a conservative government.

 

[whiteflyer]

There have been a couple of comments on what Maggie did that was good, well she certainly was not the total evil witch may think nor was she some form of angel.

She did give the right to buy your council house which was a great policy, but she made a slight mistake when she made it law that the money each council made on the sale COULD only be spent on more new council houses, she should have said MUST be spent building more houses. Too may councils banked the money just to spend the interest willy nilly.

She did get a a huge rebate from the EU, (which Blair gave up)

She made the union far more democratic by ensuring member have a vote before industrial action, no more of a union leader telling members they have to strike because he/she says so.

As for the Falklands war, she ensured there was a plan and counter plan for everything that could happen. I understand before the task force sailed she had the heads or the armed forces in her office and she wanted to know of plans in any eventuality.

Tony Blair just said we join a war, with no plans at all.

As for Scotland not voting for any conservative, well tough, we English got tuition fees and several other English only laws on the back of Scottish labour MP votes, about time Scotland got a taste of their own medicine.

 

[goldenlight]

Can anyone tell me why people like Ian Huntley should get ANY human rights?

Because we are a civilized country where even the rights of those we despise are recognized. We have principles and values that shine like a beacon in a world of darkness. Many, many societies across the planet, from Angola to Zimbabwe, consider it acceptable to abuse and deny human rights. Admittedly it is often for political or ethnic reasons, but once we are on the slippery slope of selecting who qualifies for human rights and who doesn't there is no telling where it will end. Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

 

[Sparkles33]

Honestly, I'm sceptical and apprehensive.
I do, however, hope that they scrap the ESA (Employment Support Allowance) and the unfair medicals (lots of controvercy, not hard to find it).
I also hope that they don't make proposed cuts on NHS nursing staff and I hope that they make long term JSA claimants work in some capacity (no jobs? fine, community service type jobs).
I hope that vulnerable people are taken more seriously, especially hate crime.

...and now I'll take my rose tinted glasses off...

 

[desantnik]

I do, however, hope that they scrap the ESA (Employment Support Allowance) and the unfair medicals (lots of controvercy, not hard to find it).
I also hope that they don't make proposed cuts on NHS nursing staff

Whilst I'd not disagree with you (I have seen ESA/Atos and thats just plain wrong) I don't think either of those two things even slightly feature on their radar.

This new government is about saving money first and secondly maybe saving their own necks.

Don't expect any kind of mercy for the public sector, its going to look like the final scene of a horror movie fairly quickly I suspect.

Wouldn't mind betting public sector pensions aren't top of the target list too, so expect strikes left right and centre....

Oh and Graham - re your earlier comment about people on benefits - I do agree with you. They are an easy target for the Daily Blackshirt and friends!

 

[fracster]

I'm sorry, but it's not in any way "barbaric" to deprive a rapist or murder of the right to watch dvds or go to the gym or undertake a degree course....

I would accept a prisoner exchange scheme with Turkey,Irag,Thailand or wherever. We "care" for some of theirs, some of ours get sent over there.

Perhaps prison would not be so comfortable all of a sudden.

 

[MacroMania]

What are they going to do about replacing Trident? Tories say replace, Lib-Dems say scrap! And the coalition says?

 

[Sparkles33]

Whilst I'd not disagree with you (I have seen ESA/Atos and thats just plain wrong) I don't think either of those two things even slightly feature on their radar.

This new government is about saving money first and secondly maybe saving their own necks.

Don't expect any kind of mercy for the public sector, its going to look like the final scene of a horror movie fairly quickly I suspect.

Wouldn't mind betting public sector pensions aren't top of the target list too, so expect strikes left right and centre....

Oh and Graham - re your earlier comment about people on benefits - I do agree with you. They are an easy target for the Daily Blackshirt and friends!

I know and to be honest, that's what scares me. (hence the rose tinted glasses comment ) Ultimately vulnerable people will become more vulnerable IMHO.

Does anyone else find it ironic that we have a "con-dem" government? (con - conservitives, dem, lib dem...)

 

[Rob_W]

In terms of people

1,035,528 = Labour
491,386 = SNP
465,471 = Lib Dem
412,855 = Conservative

Pretty close in terms of votes between Lib Dem / Conservative / SNP despite the seats suggesting otherwise - but Labour were by far the winners.

Not really by far though was it?, 1,035,528 people wanted labour in 1,369,712 people didnt...

A two horse race doesnt really work when theres more than two horses...


.

 

[desantnik]

What are they going to do about replacing Trident? Tories say replace, Lib-Dems say scrap! And the coalition says?

"Errr lets wait to discuss that one once we've got rid of the Lib Dems, they aren't going to be here very long"

 

[Craft]

Trident - they are going to look into alternatives, but LDs have given up their "scrap it" mandate.

In Scotland aren't those figures slightly distorted by tories not even standing in quite a few areas ? Ok, they weren't going to win them, but there must of been people there who wished to vote for them? even just as a protest.

For all the moaning about Thatcher I still think Labour have caused this country far more damage.

In any case its good to see so many opposing views without people resorting to name calling etc

 

[MacroMania]

There were time over the past week when I was reminded of the People's Front of Judea scene in The Life of Brian.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[barneyrubble]

Gordon Brown has spent spent spent all of the Nation's money, from when he was chancellor getting his sums wrong (in private industry that sort of mistake would earn you a P45 not a promotion to prime minister) to when he is prime minister.

We are so far in debt that Moody's have warned that if the deficit is not cut we could lose our AAA credit rating.

From a personal perspective, I'm much much worse off than I was under the last government. With all the stealth taxes etc I now have less to spend every month than previous years.

I am glad labour are out, I am prepared to give the Conservatives/lib dems the chance to reverse the damage that labour have done. It's not going to be easy, and they're going to have to make some hard/unpopular decisions, which may in the long term be their undoing.

 

[Steep]

IMHO this is the right result and the fair result. Personally I'm relieved that any thought of a labour led coalition were binned, as I think that would have been a disaster and totally unreflective of the public vote.

Depends what you mean by the 'public vote', in terms of seats won the liberals did badly but in terms of actual votes cast the three parties are all fairly close (con 36%, Lab 29%, LD 23%). This is a perfect example of why our current electoral system is so bad, the first past the post system doesn't reflect what the voters actually voted for. It's also a perfect example of why the two main parties have been dead set against it, they know that with Proportional Representation they'd have very little chance of ever getting a majority in Parliament.

The Tory/LD coalition is probably going to be the worst possible thing for Scotland, the Tories get little support from us for good reason, their policies have systematically screwed Scotland whenever they have had the power to do it. Now we are going to get Tory policies tempered by the Liberal Democrats who have a vested interest up here, this means we'll get policies that don't screw us (quite as much) and the new generation of voters who don't know better will begin to think "hhmm they're not so bad after all..."

I wonder how much of the Tory gain this time around came from 'new voters', the ones who are too young to remember the Thatcher years.