New PC Time

Dale_tem

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Dale
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My PC is coming up to 6 years old (I7 920, GTX 650). So I think it is time for a new one.

I am looking at similar spec to this...

INTEL Quad Core I7 4790K on a Z97 MOBO
2TB Hybrid SATA Hard Drive for OS (I have had 2 SSDs, different machines, different everything, both have lasted under 3 months, so I have an unmeasurable SSD killing ability)
4TB SATA Hard Drive for data
ATI R9 290 4GB GDDR5

I am looking at Novatech to get the bits (prebuilt or barebones, not sure) and it comes to £933 exc hard disks and OS. It comes to £1245 with them building it or £1235 if I build it.

Any ideas on who else to use based on experience of machines over time.
 
I'll say it before anyone else does... Just buy a Mac ;) :D

No help on who else to look at though.
 
Chillblast are very good.
 
@Dale_tem

Why a K series CPU? Will you be overclocking it? If not, a K is a waste of time. Z79 is overkill too.

What other uses will you be putting the PC to? Do you game at all?

What's your budget? Is that £1200 a maximum, or do you want to spend less than that?

Answer those questions first before getting any advice... or deciding on a Mac. Macs suck for gaming, so that may be a factor.


[edit]

Thought of building your own?
 
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How much ram, what will you use for backup.
What program's are you running on this, what's your primary use?
Which ssd have you killed?
Which disks are you thinking off?
I run velociraptors, one for os, one for Lightroom catalogue and cache and one for this years raw files. I then have 2x 3tb drives for previous years raw files and another for JPEG exports, some music, that's about it.

Do you need a 4gb graphics card?
 
If you're on CC it's not a problem.

However... plug-ins, and other software is another matter, then it becomes like lenses.... once you're invested in a system, it becomes expensive to switch.
 
Upgrade is mainly for gaming, hence why going for the mobo, CPU and graphics.

I have 16Gb at work and use 10Gb quite often.

Backup - HP Microserver and Amazon Glacier online backup.

SSDs I've killed - Samsung and Intel

4gb graphics is for gaming.

I don't need huge amounts of storage. I don't use Lightroom, only photoshop. I only have files I have recently taken and then filed are moved to Microserver.

I've used the velociraptors before, I like the hybrid disk I have in my laptop and want to use the same in my PC, so will use the Seagate 2TB hybrid (8Gb SSD).

After that a single 4Tb drive should do.
 
@boliston

5xxx are Haswell E CPUs, that need Socket 2011 and DDR4 RAM. It's not a straight swap from regular Haswell (or earlier socket 1150 CPUS) and a more expensive upgrade. 5xxx are 6 or 8 core CPUs, have more level 3 cache and are designed for heavily threaded applications. For regular photography, general use, or gaming, there's little to be gained over regular Haswell.
 
If its purely for gaming an i5 is better value for 99% of games. What resolution are you gaming at?
 
Upgrade is mainly for gaming, hence why going for the mobo, CPU and graphics.

I have 16Gb at work and use 10Gb quite often.

Backup - HP Microserver and Amazon Glacier online backup.

SSDs I've killed - Samsung and Intel

4gb graphics is for gaming.

I don't need huge amounts of storage. I don't use Lightroom, only photoshop. I only have files I have recently taken and then filed are moved to Microserver.

I've used the velociraptors before, I like the hybrid disk I have in my laptop and want to use the same in my PC, so will use the Seagate 2TB hybrid (8Gb SSD).

After that a single 4Tb drive should do.


You didn't mention graphics in your first post. What resolution is your monitor? Are you interested upgrading your screen to beyond 1080P? That will determine what GPU you should go for. A GTX980 is a waste of money if you're just gaming at 1920x1080 for example. It's debatable if you need 4GB of VRAM at 1080P as well, but it's a good option for longevity I suppose.

Also.. there's little to be gained from a i7 for gaming... a top end i5 will do nicely.
 
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Also.. there's little to be gained from a i7 for gaming... a top end i5 will do nicely.

This - the i5-4690 is considered very good, with diminishing returns for the money to the i7-4790. The i7 is slightly better (and good for bragging rights) but you won't notice much difference to the i5.
 
@Dale_tem

What do you feel you need Z79 for?
 
If you kill SSDs, I'm not sure how you're much better off with SHDDs.
I'm responsible for around 30 PCs that use SSD hard disks. The older machines have two 60GB disks in RAID0 format. The newer ones get 120/128GB disks. They get hammered as the developers are compiling a good size-ish codebase several times a day and they are regularly re-imaged. In 9 months just one has failed.

If I were you, I'd build the system yourself. It's incredibly easy and if corners have been cut, you know exactly where they have been cut. (Cheap PSU, cheap case, cheap fans etc)
You could also recycle components from your old system.

As for CPU choice, it really depends on what your usage pattern is. I don't buy the argument that i7s are not worth the extra cash. I use an i5-3570 at work and an i7-3770 at home and there is a noticeable difference. TBH at home right now the i7 is under utilised and although that may change soon, I'd much rather have it at work where my PC usage is much more intensive.

Here are some relevant CPU benchmarks:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2226&cmp[]=2236&cmp[]=896
 
Passmark has little to do with gaming performance. If you look at something like Haven then you will see that the i7 offers little to no gains. In overclocked results the i7 will loose as they tend to clock worse than the equivalent i5. So for pure gaming stick to i5. I have an i7 but thats for when im folding and it uses it to its full potential.

For gaming the GPU is where you should spend your money or a monitor upgrade.
 
You didn't mention graphics in your first post. What resolution is your monitor? Are you interested upgrading your screen to beyond 1080P? That will determine what GPU you should go for. A GTX980 is a waste of money if you're just gaming at 1920x1080 for example. It's debatable if you need 4GB of VRAM at 1080P as well, but it's a good option for longevity I suppose.

Also.. there's little to be gained from a i7 for gaming... a top end i5 will do nicely.

First post...

ATI R9 290 4GB GDDR5

;)

The Z79 comes up on all the gaming rigs I've seen, so just picked that as a standard.

Displays are 2 1920 x 1080 24". I am not interested in bigger, was looking at 2560 x 1440 displays and may upgrade towards the end of the year. I normally only use 1 monitor for gaming apart from FSX.

afasoas - I've been fine with my hybrid for 2 years now. I've been building PCs since 486 days, so know all the pros and cons. If they build a system, everything is spec'd by the buyer. On the flipside there are chances you pick incompatible items that cause random driver issues and crashes. I cannot use wireless on my i7 920. I don't know why. I have tried 2 internal cards (one G and one N) and also a USB wireless card. Everytime the PC bluescreened in under 5 mins. If they build it, it will be a combination they have built before which should reduce the chance of this happening.

I will also be using the PC for ripping films but if there is no benefit on the i7 over the i5, I will drop to the i5.

Thanks for all the help so far :)
 
Passmark has little to do with gaming performance. If you look at something like Haven then you will see that the i7 offers little to no gains. In overclocked results the i7 will loose as they tend to clock worse than the equivalent i5. So for pure gaming stick to i5. I have an i7 but thats for when im folding and it uses it to its full potential.

For gaming the GPU is where you should spend your money or a monitor upgrade.


Hence

"As for CPU choice, it really depends on what your usage pattern is."
 
First post...


The 290 is a proper power hungry, hot running card, that given the fact that it uses so much power, and runs so hot... isn't particularly great. Given a choice, considering you are thinking of gaming at 1440P in the near future, I'd definitely consider the GTX980. Fast, quieter, cooler, and uses less power. It's a no-brainer, and you also get ShadowPlay which is awesome. The EVGA cards with ACX2.0 cooling are unbelievably efficient in the cooling department too. At anything below 60C, the fans are off, and it's fully passive and silent, so when at the desktop, there's zero noise from it. Even at the highest I've seen temps (80C) when running BF4 @ 2560x1600 while over clocked, the fans were still only at 40% and basically inaudible.

Can't afford that, then there's only one real choice left, and that's the GTX970. Pay no attention to the crap you'll read about it being "flawed". It's a 4GB card, but the last 512MB of VRAM run slower is all. In practice, it still kicks the R9 290's ass, and runs even quieter and cooler than the GTX980 if you buy the EVGA one with ACX2.0. EVGA have the best warranties too. You'll get all the advantages of the above 980, but just not quit the same grunt... but still significantly better performance than the 290 when you consider the power and heat savings.... well. better full stop actually... just even more impressive when you factor in heat, noise and power.


The Z79 comes up on all the gaming rigs I've seen, so just picked that as a standard.

You've heard teh term "e-peen" I take it? If not.. look it up on urban dictionary or something, and you'll get your explanation why gaming rigs usually are unnecessarily over specced. Bragging rights is all.

I'm not saying don't... but if you want to save money, consider that a great deal of Z78 boards can run Haswell CPUs with a BIOS update. If you want Broadwell and boyond compatibility you will actually need Z79, but as for features... you're getting things you may not need, such as SATA Express M V2.0 and Thunderbolt. The new H79 Chipset boards are cheaper though, and will still support Broadwell, and will support Haswell straight out of the box. The higher end Z79 boards will have a more fully features BIOS designed for enthusiasts though, so if you plan on over clocking etc... then again... a decent high end Z79 board may be worthwhile. The Asus Maximus VII Ranger springs instantly to mind. Not cheap though.

The fact is it's getting more sensible to invest in higher end gear as progress slows down. Sounds stupid, but that's effectively what seems to be happening. I built this 3960X based rig in 2012, and When Ivy Bridge E came out, it was hardly any faster ... just a little more power efficient... and even though Haswell E is now here... it's just not worth the upgrade.. performance.... even with the 8 core version is just not worth the money. There's still little that can touch it despite 2 generations of CPU in teh meantime.. a tick and full-on tock in Inte's road map strategy... still not worth it. Go back maybe 6 or 7 years, and building a gaming rig with high end gear, and expecting it to be still viable in over 3 year's time was unthinkable. All I've had to do to keep this rig current is a GPU upgrades. GPUs are the crucial factor in gaming now... not CPUs. Fortunately... unless there's a new PCI_E standard on the horizon, upgrading GPUs is never that costly unless you go for the really top end stuff.

Displays are 2 1920 x 1080 24". I am not interested in bigger, was looking at 2560 x 1440 displays and may upgrade towards the end of the year. I normally only use 1 monitor for gaming apart from FSX.

If you only game on one, then all the cards discussed... R9 290, GTX970 and GTX980 are all MASSIVE overkill... but as you may well be gaming at 2560x1440, I recommend the GTX980 or 970 as above. FSX.. I assume you mean MS Flight Simulator X.... is more processor intensive than GPU intensive. The graphics engine is ancient, and almost any mid range GPU will cope admirably graphically. It's an old game though, and it isn't very demanding of modern hardware... even fairly modest modern hardware.


I will also be using the PC for ripping films but if there is no benefit on the i7 over the i5, I will drop to the i5.

The Hyper threading of the i7 will give a speed advantage to ripping DVDs and Blu Ray disks, yes... but it won't be an amazing saving.
 
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Thanks Pookey, that is just the sort of info I needed :)

FSX is old, but when you add the traffic add ons and premium planes, it does suffer
 
Thanks Pookey, that is just the sort of info I needed :)

FSX is old, but when you add the traffic add ons and premium planes, it does suffer

An i5 will cope well, as will a GTX970. If you get the i5 4690K you can always over-clock it as well.


BTW.... you don't mention cooling for the CPU. Given that any thought?
 
CPU cooling was going to be something big and quiet. No idea really.

I accidentally ordered 2 2560x1440 monitors which will arrive this week. Will order the PC tomorrow I think.
 
LOL.. how do you accidentally order 2 monitors?

If you're going to use both of those for gaming you'll need to think about 2x GTX970s in SLI. Then again, gaming on 2 screens sucks, as the bezel is bang in the middle of the frame.
 
It was just accident after accident on each page, accidentally adding to basket, checking out, putting all my details in, complete accident. lol

I spec'd up the machine last night and was about £1400 all in
 
Not much good if you have PC versions of software, say Photoshop.
Except you can transfer licences with Adobe at no cost.

And anyway, my comment was more than a little tongue-in-cheek. Most people know (and Dale does) how anti-Apple equipment I am ;)
 
It was just accident after accident on each page, accidentally adding to basket, checking out, putting all my details in, complete accident. lol
Alcohol by any chance?
 
CPU cooling was going to be something big and quiet. No idea really.
Been very happy with my Noctua NH-D14-2011 (socket 2011 compatible). It comes with PWM fans which spin at 300 rpm 99% of the time. The smaller Noctuas don't have PWM fans. You may need a mounting bracket (Noctua make one to fit the 2011 to other Intel sockets) at about £5 although I couldn't spot any difference between it and the one supplied in the original box. You'll need a big case though to fit it in.

i5 vs i7 - you get 15% or so (I mentioned 15% recently and was jumped on, but I can't honestly remember what the actual difference was). I tried recoding on my i7 with hyperthreading switched off in the BIOS and was surprised by the small difference in encode times. If you only rarely rip, then you probably won't notice the difference TBH.
 
Using a Corsair H105 here.. pretty damned good for off the shelf water cooling. Needs a suitable case though, as the radiator is pretty thick.
 
Just ordered...

Gigabyte Z97-HD3 INTEL Z97 Chipset, ATX Mainboard w/ 4 RAM slots, 7.1 HD Audio, HDMI, GbLAN, USB 3.0, SATA-III, 1x Gen2 PCIe x16, 1x Gen2 PCIe x4, 2x PCIe x 1 & 2x PCI

INTEL[emoji768] Core i5-4690K Quad Core 3.50 GHz 6MB Cache LGA1150 + HD Graphics

CPU Cooler Corsair Hydro Series H55 Quiet Liquid Cooling system w/ 120mm Radiator (Corsair CPU Water Cooling)

16Gb of RAM

HDD: 2TB Seagate Hybrid Gen3 SATA-III 6.0Gb/s Cache 5400RPM SSHD
HDD2: 3TB (3TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 4GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card

Corsair Carbide 300R Mid-Tower Gaming Case

Cooler Master 700 watt PSU
 
Does the case some with a front fan? IF not... install one.

That rig should see you right.

Glad you didn't skimp on the PSU. It's the most important part of the computer.
 
3 x 120mm fans I believe
 
The PC has arrived today and so far I am loving it!!!

I've opened it up and started downloading all my games from Steam, Origin and elsewhere (make use of the 1Gb connection :D ) and it is flying :)

Firewall report says I have downloaded about 200Gb in 3 hours. :D
 
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Have fun :)
 
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