New Nikon Z (zee) 7 Mirrorless.

Lensflare said:
My computer wouldn't work with the Fuji - they don't tell you that when you go to buy it. Factor in another £1000 or something for a computer that can deal with it, and then you can't use your old programs and have to RENT (sorry subscribe) them...... no thanks. I am not being milked like that.
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Interesting, why do you need a powerful computer for Fuji files? :confused:
 
snerkler said:
Interesting, why do you need a powerful computer for Fuji files? :confused:
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I don't know - but mine wouldn't work them, it won't do 4k either, only 1080, which is plenty for what I am capable of. At least the NX2 editing works on mine, so I can deal with Nikon pictures.

I am not buying another computer. I detest touch screens on anything (I have never seen an iPad thing. I have seen other people using them, but that is as close as I have got....I don't want to get that infection off them!)
 
Lensflare said:
I don't know - but mine wouldn't work them, it won't do 4k either, only 1080, which is plenty for what I am capable of. At least the NX2 editing works on mine, so I can deal with Nikon pictures.

I am not buying another computer. I detest touch screens on anything (I have never seen an iPad thing. I have seen other people using them, but that is as close as I have got....I don't want to get that infection off them!)
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Sounds like you’ve got a computer running windows xp ;)
 
And it works with everything else, so why change? Just to join in the 'race'? No thanks - my big computer out the back that I haven't thrown away yet, because it does the invoices and stuff perfectly happily, is running Windows 98.
 
Lensflare said:
And it works with everything else, so why change? Just to join in the 'race'? No thanks - my big computer out the back that I haven't thrown away yet, because it does the invoices and stuff perfectly happily, is running Windows 98.
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It was a joke ;)
 
Lensflare said:
And it works with everything else, so why change? Just to join in the 'race'? No thanks - my big computer out the back that I haven't thrown away yet, because it does the invoices and stuff perfectly happily, is running Windows 98.
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And they say macs are more reliable then windows machines. Total fud!
 
Lensflare said:
And it works with everything else, so why change? Just to join in the 'race'? No thanks - my big computer out the back that I haven't thrown away yet, because it does the invoices and stuff perfectly happily, is running Windows 98.
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so I take it you won't be pre-ordering a nikon zzz-top then , ever thought of getting one of them new fangled colour t.v's they sat there quite realistic AND you dont even have to get out of the armchair to change channels . :thinking:
 
the black fox said:
so I take it you won't be pre-ordering a nikon zzz-top then , ever thought of getting one of them new fangled colour t.v's they sat there quite realistic AND you dont even have to get out of the armchair to change channels . :thinking:
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I just have my trusty B&W set closer so I can press the buttons with my outstretched feet.
 
Lensflare said:
My computer wouldn't work with the Fuji - they don't tell you that when you go to buy it. Factor in another £1000 or something for a computer that can deal with it, and then you can't use your old programs and have to RENT (sorry subscribe) them...... no thanks. I am not being milked like that.
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Its not down to them to know what computer configuration every person on the planet has.
 
jonneymendoza said:
And they say macs are more reliable then windows machines. Total fud!
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My experience is that Macs last longer in terms of maintaining speed. My latest windows laptop has been a mare. It’s literally only been used for viewing x-rays, it’s just over 12 months old yet it’s now soooooooo slow. This has been my experience across the board, 2 years max before it slows down to the point I want to throw it through the window ;) And yes, I’ve bought some higher end windows laptops. I know everyone’s experience will be different but mine has been like that 100% (y) I did really rate windows 7 though, shame they’ve changed it so much.
 
Lensflare said:
And it works with everything else, so why change? Just to join in the 'race'? No thanks - my big computer out the back that I haven't thrown away yet, because it does the invoices and stuff perfectly happily, is running Windows 98.
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Sorry to jump in on this conversation but there are plenty of reasons ignoring any "race"

Security & Supportability. Security updates will only be published for out of date operating systems for so long, after that point you leave yourself open to viruses, ransomeware and all sorts of other stuff. Also, certain software will only work for legacy OS's for the same reason. They go out of support by Microsoft (assuming you're running windows) so the vendors stop producing software which works with it as well. Removing further options as you want to move forward. A prime example of this as you have found is the Fuji files were not supported on your existing PC.

Website compatibility. Backup options. General hardware reliability. Are all other reasons to consider.

Your Win98 machine which produces your invoices, what is your backup plan if that goes tits up? Because the hardware will fail one day. It is but a matter of time unfortunately.

Win10 is far from perfect, and its "Windows as a service" approach raises lots of eyebrows but generally speaking its solid and easy to use once you're used to the interface. Every app, file type and whatever else which comes out now will be compatible with it and its also the most secure with its built in threat protection. if you have any questions I am happy to take this to PM with you.

I am not saying you HAVE to upgrade. But relying on legacy hardware and software "because it works" is setting yourself up to a big failure down the road, speaking from experience both personally and professionally.
 
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LongLensPhotography said:
What about EOS-M mount? What size is it and is there any chance FF offering will also use it? What implications would it have?

Furthermore, will we see more cross-brand adapters to say adapt EF lens to Nikon Z or F-mount to EOS-M, or even Z to EOS-M, and let's mix Sony in as well.... Sony has been very open to it so far, which is a huge plus.
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No we won't - Nikon has already said they won't be opening the Z mount up, meaning any 3rd parties will have to reverse engineer it - meaning slow AF.
 
ohms12 said:
No we won't - Nikon has already said they won't be opening the Z mount up, meaning any 3rd parties will have to reverse engineer it - meaning slow AF.
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There are plenty of speedy reverse engineered lenses on the market, the days of assuming reverse engineered means sub standard are well behind us.
 
Phil V said:
There are plenty of speedy reverse engineered lenses on the market, the days of assuming reverse engineered means sub standard are well behind us.
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And none that are as fast as native glass. My point still remains.
 
ohms12 said:
And none that are as fast as native glass. My point still remains.
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I expect ‘instant’ focussing, and the slowest lenses I own are a mix of Canon and 3rd party, but so are the fastest ones. There might be a ‘measurable speed difference using high tech machinery’ between the 3rd party and Canon lenses, but in real world use, there’s no noticeable difference. And it certainly hasn’t affected sales of Sigma Art lenses.
 
ohms12 said:
And none that are as fast as native glass. My point still remains.
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Not true, there are plenty of reverse engineered Sigmas that are faster than the native CaNikon versions.
 
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SsSsSsSsSnake said:
:D
I.d put my house on Canon having 2 card slots
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Haha you could be right!

My guess is that in Nikon's research among 'target buyers' dual card slots was rated pretty low and that gave Nikon an opportunity to put some clear differentiation between the Zeds and their DSLRs. They underestimated the reaction of the media and the influence that has.

DPReview did a reader poll very recently asking what features readers wanted in the new Nikons. From thousands of responses, dual card slots scored only 1%.
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7...nt-from-nikon-and-canon-full-frame-mirrorless
 
Cagey75 said:
The Z6 is more like the D750 I guess, and the Z7 more like the D850.
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snerkler said:
But neither appear to have the performance of their counterpart at the moment.
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That's where they sit on price and at the New York launch Nikon reps were certainly describing the Z7 as 'a mirrorless D850'. They were getting carried away - it's hard to come to that conclusion if you've used both cameras at all critically. While it may be a bit of a lump, the D850 is still the best all-round enthusiast camera ever made IMHO.
 
twist said:
Not true, there are plenty of reverse engineered Sigmas that are faster than the native CaNikon versions.
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Yeah, but how long have Sigma had to reverse engineer those Nikon F or Canon EF mounts? Decades. I'd be curious to see how long it takes them to get fast, reliable AF on this mount. Sure, they did it in a few years with Sony FE, but they didn't have to reverse engineer those.
 
ian-83 said:
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...ons-thinking-and-how-will-the-z-system-evolve

Worth a read. The Z range hasn't been introduced as an alternative to the D850 but more as a compliment. Also looks like early buyers with get a free XQD memory card.
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Just Nikon blather, towing the party line. On the AF, the Nikon rep says "All the feedback I've had from people using it, is that it's really fast, and very accurate." He's been talking to the wrong people.

We await the 'beta firmware' excuses and TBF a sliver of hope still hangs on that, but it's a tiny sliver.
 
ohms12 said:
And none that are as fast as native glass. My point still remains.
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Amazing!
ohms12 said:
Yeah, but how long have Sigma had to reverse engineer those Nikon F or Canon EF mounts? Decades. I'd be curious to see how long it takes them to get fast, reliable AF on this mount. Sure, they did it in a few years with Sony FE, but they didn't have to reverse engineer those.
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That was a faster climb down than Boris claiming he never promised £350m a week for the NHS. :LOL:

IIRC Sigma had produced their HSM lenses shortly after the Canon USM and were outperforming many native Nikon lenses for focus speed soon after.

The speed is in the motors, the only development required is to read the software, and given that the new Z mount camera speaks to current F mount lenses, how different do you expect the communication to be?

My Sigma Art lens on an EF converter for EF-M (M5) works as fast as it does on an EF camera, I can’t imagine that being much different on a Z to F adaptor, so the idea it might take decades for a native Z mount lens is frankly ridiculous. The more important question would be whether there’s a big enough market to make it worthwhile.
 
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Phil V said:
Amazing!

That was a faster climb down than Boris claiming he never promised £350m a week for the NHS. :LOL:

IIRC Sigma had produced their HSM lenses shortly after the Canon USM and were outperforming many native Nikon lenses for focus speed soon after.

The speed is in the motors, the only development required is to read the software, and given that the new Z mount camera speaks to current F mount lenses, how different do you expect the communication to be?

My Sigma Art lens on an EF converter for EF-M (M5) works as fast as it does on an EF camera, I can’t imagine that being much different on a Z to F adaptor, so the idea it might take decades for a native Z mount lens is frankly ridiculous. The more important question would be whether there’s a big enough market to make it worthwhile.
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There will be some problems using third-party lenses with the new Z-to-F adapter. Hopefully they will be few and far between, and fixable with firmware, but I read the other day how a Sigma 50/1.4 (pre-Art version) suddenly stopped AF focusing completely when new Nikon firmware was installed. The same has happened with third-party batteries, and flash guns, too. Canikon just don't like us using third-party stuff.


.
 
snerkler said:
Interesting, why do you need a powerful computer for Fuji files? :confused:
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Not sure you need a more powerful computer, but Fuji X-Trans certainly needs modified software to do the de-mosaicing. Some post-processing software just won't read it, eg DxO and that's why they don't test Fuji X-Trans cameras. I think every other brand uses Bayer mosaics now.
 
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Not my experience. My desktop Is 3 years old and still fast!
snerkler said:
My experience is that Macs last longer in terms of maintaining speed. My latest windows laptop has been a mare. It’s literally only been used for viewing x-rays, it’s just over 12 months old yet it’s now soooooooo slow. This has been my experience across the board, 2 years max before it slows down to the point I want to throw it through the window ;) And yes, I’ve bought some higher end windows laptops. I know everyone’s experience will be different but mine has been like that 100% (y) I did really rate windows 7 though, shame they’ve changed it so much.
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Jake said:
Sorry to jump in on this conversation but there are plenty of reasons ignoring any "race"

Security & Supportability. Security updates will only be published for out of date operating systems for so long, after that point you leave yourself open to viruses, ransomeware and all sorts of other stuff. Also, certain software will only work for legacy OS's for the same reason. They go out of support by Microsoft (assuming you're running windows) so the vendors stop producing software which works with it as well. Removing further options as you want to move forward. A prime example of this as you have found is the Fuji files were not supported on your existing PC.

Website compatibility. Backup options. General hardware reliability. Are all other reasons to consider.

Your Win98 machine which produces your invoices, what is your backup plan if that goes tits up? Because the hardware will fail one day. It is but a matter of time unfortunately.

Win10 is far from perfect, and its "Windows as a service" approach raises lots of eyebrows but generally speaking its solid and easy to use once you're used to the interface. Every app, file type and whatever else which comes out now will be compatible with it and its also the most secure with its built in threat protection. if you have any questions I am happy to take this to PM with you.

I am not saying you HAVE to upgrade. But relying on legacy hardware and software "because it works" is setting yourself up to a big failure down the road, speaking from experience both personally and professionally.
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Thank you - I won't clog up this topic any more, but will send you a message.
 
the black fox said:
so I take it you won't be pre-ordering a nikon zzz-top then , ever thought of getting one of them new fangled colour t.v's they sat there quite realistic AND you dont even have to get out of the armchair to change channels . :thinking:
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I don't need to. I have all the camera and lenses I need. Keeping up with the Jones' is for people with money to waste. That isn't me.
 
twist said:
Its not down to them to know what computer configuration every person on the planet has.
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The media doing reviews and things never mention it - neither did anyone who had one. It is somethng that people just assume others realise - assuming something simply makes and 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'. It wasn't something that even crossed my mind. I had no idea my computer wouldn't be up to dealing with them.
 
snerkler said:
Wow I find that really surprising :eek:
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It could be that some users (prosumers) just don't care about dual cards as they don't see their work as a valuable asset; meanwhile the other group just takes it for granted now with all the pro sports and studio cameras out there and don't even think about it any more.... For example if I asked you is spoon a valuable dining table feature amongst 50 others you wouldn't even think about it. But in a chinese restaurant setting you are just likely to get a couple of sticks and tough luck if you haven't had practice before!
 
Phil V said:
Amazing!


That was a faster climb down than Boris claiming he never promised £350m a week for the NHS. :LOL:

IIRC Sigma had produced their HSM lenses shortly after the Canon USM and were outperforming many native Nikon lenses for focus speed soon after.

The speed is in the motors, the only development required is to read the software, and given that the new Z mount camera speaks to current F mount lenses, how different do you expect the communication to be?

My Sigma Art lens on an EF converter for EF-M (M5) works as fast as it does on an EF camera, I can’t imagine that being much different on a Z to F adaptor, so the idea it might take decades for a native Z mount lens is frankly ridiculous. The more important question would be whether there’s a big enough market to make it worthwhile.
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Ehh, okay. I base my judgements on personal use. I was a Nikon shooter for 10 years before moving to Sony a few years back. I’ve owned numerous Nikon bodies and lenses. I’ve also owned numerous Sigma & Tamron lenses. From my experiences I’ve never found a 3rd party lens that has surpassed the AF performance of its Nikon counterpart. That’s not to say good third party AF doesn’t exist, I was merely going by experience.

Admittedly, I’ve not used the Art line on a Nikon, nor have I used a Nikon lens in the last 3 years or so.

The fact that Nikon have been wilfully crippling the use of third party lenses by way of software updates would deter me from moving back to that system in any case.
 
Retune said:
You could only pick 3 things out of a list of over 20, though. This doesn't mean nobody thought it was important, just that they rated things like fast AF, a high resolution sensor and backwards compatibility with existing lenses higher. 'Tele zooms' only got 0.5%.
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Plus it was in the list as an option so must have had some importance in the first place. ;)

What are the most important things you'd want from a Canon or Nikon mirrorless camera?
  • Full compatibility / full performance with existing lenses13.0% Time will tell if it is full performance.
  • High resolution sensor11.3%
  • Sports-ready AF system10.7%
  • Lifelike viewfinder10.2% Seems to be one of the nest so far, whether that means lifelike....
  • In-body stabilization7.9%
  • Compact size6.3%
  • Small, affordable primes5.4%
  • Good battery life4.5%
  • Lightweight4.3%
  • Easy-to-use AF system4.0%
  • Good quality video3.8%
  • Responsive controls and menus3.4%
  • Effective weather sealing3.2%
  • Fast primes2.5%
  • High speed shooting1.9%
  • Substantial grip1.6%
  • Pro video features such as waveforms / 10-bit capture1.5%
  • 16-bit Raw1.4%
  • Configurable controls/interface1.4% Unknown how configurable the camera is yet.
  • Dual card slots1.0% For those that didn't know they only have one card slot. ;) :LOL:
  • Tele zooms0.5%
  • Top plate settings display0.3% Funny how third less people wanted this than dual card slots. :D
Total voters: 3,783

I think Nikon have done pretty well out of that list with what we know up to now. Some things may change after tests, reviews and users getting their hands on them of course. Not the memory card thing of course, but other things. ;) :LOL:

Btw, I don't know how their survey was set up, whether it was put all these features in order of importance, or more likely from surveys I have done on DPReview in the past, choose your top three. If it was the latter that could really skew the results imho. Small, affordable primes could have been a lot of people fourth choice, but because they had three answers of more importance to them that answer appears less significant than it may actually be to a lot of people. The power of statistics eh! ;)
 
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