New lights from Lencarta....

[JonathanRyan]

So....over 2 days into Focus and nobody's mentioned the new wonder lights from Lencarta that were trailed. Anybody seen them? Apart from the fact that they are really ugly (going by the website) anything else to add?

They are these http://lencarta.com/lighting-store/high-speed-studio-flash

Apparently all the advantages of IGBT with none of the disadvantages that Mr Edwards has been keen to point out.

 

[Sebastian]

I had a look. The idea sounds interesting! It would be good to know what are the speeds on different power settings.
They can be pink with Hello Kitty on them: as long as they perform, I don't mind

 

[Garry Edwards]

Well, they do exactly what it says on the tin - a TRUE 300 or 600 Ws of power and NO loss of power caused by the IGBT technology (unlike the others that Ive tested.

True 1/20,000th t. 1 flash duration, 20 frames per sec burst rate , absolutely consistent exposure etc

Oh yes, independently verified too.

 

[tiler65]

Well, they do exactly what it says on the tin - a TRUE 300 or 600 Ws of power and NO loss of power caused by the IGBT technology (unlike the others that Ive tested.

True 1/20,000th t. 1 flash duration, 20 frames per sec burst rate , absolutely consistent exposure etc

Oh yes, independently verified too.

Wow!

20 frames per second - what camera was it? Can we see a 20 frame in 1 second sequence?

 

[Phil V]

Wow!

20 frames per second - what camera was it? Can we see a 20 frame in 1 second sequence?

Presumably that's captured in Bulb as a single exposure? As I can't think of a camera that'd capture that as 20 frames.

 

[tiler65]

Presumably that's captured in Bulb as a single exposure? As I can't think of a camera that'd capture that as 20 frames.

So it's not 20 frames then?

 

[Phil V]

So it's not 20 frames then?

Again I'm presuming? It'd be 20 frames if there was a 20 fps camera.

There may be a test device, but isn't the fastest slr (ish) the Sony at 12 fps?

 

[tiler65]

Again I'm presuming? It'd be 20 frames if there was a 20 fps camera.

There may be a test device, but isn't the fastest slr (ish) the Sony at 12 fps?

Well the 1dx can do 14 but I think there must be a camera that can shoot more but it isn't a dslr!

 

[Digitalize]

A video camera could shoot 60fps and record 20 flashes I guess.

 

[Phil V]

A video camera could shoot 60fps and record 20 flashes I guess.

I thought about video, but how would it sync?

 

[Phil V]

A video camera could shoot 60fps and record 20 flashes I guess.

I considered video, but how would it sync?

 

[tiler65]

Maybe it is 1 + 19 strobotic (?) flashes in 1 second like you said Phil.

 

[Garry Edwards]

20 Fps is the capability - being poor we've only actually used it with D3 and D700, demoed it on our stand squirting poor model Jade Hespin with water and freezing the action - you'll never see her the same way in Emmerdale again!

If there ever is a camera that can shoot at 20 Fps it will keep up

 

[Garry Edwards]

No, not strobotic - it recycles in 0.05 of a sec, so of it can be triggered 20 times a sec it will keep up

 

[Phil V]

No, not strobotic - it recycles in 0.05 of a sec, so of it can be triggered 20 times a sec it will keep up

Aah! Recycle time, how do you measure that they fully recharged in that time?

 

[Triggaaar]

So....over 2 days into Focus and nobody's mentioned the new wonder lights from Lencarta that were trailed.

I ordered one yesterday, so hurry up and post it

 

[cambsno]

Excuse my ignorance, so does that mean you could shoot at shutter speeds above the 1/250 or 1/320 i can now. Like 1/2000?

 

[Triggaaar]

Excuse my ignorance, so does that mean you could shoot at shutter speeds above the 1/250 or 1/320 i can now. Like 1/2000?

No, your sync speed will still be around 1/160, but that doesn't matter, because all your light will come from the flash (ie, insignificant ambient light), so the duration of the flash is what will cause the subject to freeze.

Unfortunately the shortest durations are at minimum power, but hopefully you can do what you need, perhaps with an ISO boost if necessary.

 

[Marcus Geezer]

Watched it in action and it works like Garry says it does. Just got to get a camera to keep up with it!

 

[Garry Edwards]

Aah! Recycle time, how do you measure that they fully recharged in that time?

The fact that every single shot in a burst sequence has exactly the same exposure and exactly the same colour temp proves that it is fully recharged.

 

[tiler65]

The fact that every single shot in a burst sequence has exactly the same exposure and exactly the same colour temp proves that it is fully recharged.

Excuse my ignorance but why has the model (in the sequence shots on the Lencarta website, revolving her arms) have different exposed 'arms' if all shots are the same exposure?

 

[ZoneV]

.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Excuse my ignorance but why has the model (in the sequence shots on the Lencarta website, revolving her arms) have different exposed 'arms' if all shots are the same exposure?

That isn't a sequence shot, it's a multiple exposure of several shots on the same frame, 5 I think, so or course the bits that don't move got 5 times as much exposure as the bits that do.

 

[tiler65]

That isn't a sequence shot, it's a multiple exposure of several shots on the same frame, 5 I think, so or course the bits that don't move got 5 times as much exposure as the bits that do.

so that image was strobotic?

Do you have any sequence shots?

 

[JonathanRyan]

The 20 fps is a neat trick. But given it will be less than 10 w/s output and there will be a host of sync problems at this speed (on the hypothetical camera that doesn't exist yet) I guess continuous light might work better here.

 

[HoppyUK]

Aah! Recycle time, how do you measure that they fully recharged in that time?

The flash is fully charged because it is never fully discharged (at anything less than full power).

The way IGBT works is that the flash always fires at full power but the pulse is cut short abruptly after the correct brightness has been delivered, so if that's at 1/20th power, in theory the capacitor still has another 19 flashes of the same brightness available to be fired instantly.

This is key to the very short durations possible and in the example above, if one full power dump takes 1/1000sec, the head can be switched to give 20 pulses at 1/20,000sec duration each, or ten at 1/10,000sec etc.

What we have not seen yet outside of hot-shoe applications of IGBT technology, is this way of working makes auto flash exposure possible* and also high speed sync** but I'm sure this big potential opportunity has not escaped manufacturers

* Auto exposure control is possible because the flash always has full power available but can vary the output instantly, even during the exposure in real time (amazingly!).
** HSS is possible because one big flash dump can be divided up into hundreds of smaller pulses, effectively producing continuous light for the whole time the focal plane shutter is open.

 

[Phil V]

Thanks Richard.

You're great for the technical stuff, and always have the right answer.

Can you explain where I get the money to pay for some of these?

 

[antihero]

20 Fps is the capability - being poor we've only actually used it with D3 and D700, demoed it on our stand squirting poor model Jade Hespin with water and freezing the action - you'll never see her the same way in Emmerdale again!

If there ever is a camera that can shoot at 20 Fps it will keep up

out of pure curiosity, I google-imaged Jade Hespin and was quite happy with the results until.......


ahhhhh by AlternatePixel, on Flickr

 

[arad85]

out of pure curiosity, I google-imaged Jade Hespin and was quite happy with the results until.......

LOL... nice

 

[mike weeks]

b****r, the secret is out, I am only Jade on Sundays though

Will these work with the Mach 1N triggers i.e. allow me to use a mixture of daylight and studio light at 1/1000 of a second?

Also when will we see a version of this head that can be powered by the Safari Li-Ion?

Mike

 

[DemiLion]

Also when will we see a version of this head that can be powered by the Safari Li-Ion?

Exactly what I was wondering - although a battery pack to monobloc might be a better option that head & generator.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks Richard.

You're great for the technical stuff, and always have the right answer.

Can you explain where I get the money to pay for some of these?

Spend less time on here Phil, the pay is rubbish

 

[Phil V]

Spend less time on here Phil, the pay is rubbish

I know - a day off work and a list of chores as long as your arm. First stop a google search to check ranking / competition.

When I flew into a rant about copyright:bang:

Back to mopping the kitchen floor

 

[Garry Edwards]

The 20 fps is a neat trick. But given it will be less than 10 w/s output and there will be a host of sync problems at this speed (on the hypothetical camera that doesn't exist yet) I guess continuous light might work better here.

There are no synch problems - why would there be?

There are plenty of cameras around that can fire rapid bursts, and the higher the burst rate the better chance there is of one or more shots from the burst capturing the perfect moment, but the flash works equally well with single and burst shots.

High burst rates are not hypothetical, many DSLR cameras are capable of them.The only thing that we don't yet have is a camera that is capable of such high speed bursts (21 fps +) that the SF flash heads can't keep up with them. All that this actually means is that the SF flash heads are future proof - I don't see why you are portraying an obvious advantage as a disadvantage...

I guess continuous light might work better here.

Yeah, right, you might want to think that one through
If you want to freeze action at 1/20,000th second, which camera will you use that can do that? And even if there is one, what sort of ISO setting would you need to use, if it was even available? And what would the image quality be like?

(Mike Weeks) Also when will we see a version of this head that can be powered by the Safari Li-Ion?

Sorry, that won't happen.

(Mike Weeks) Will these work with the Mach 1N triggers i.e. allow me to use a mixture of daylight and studio light at 1/1000 of a second?

Well, the new SF heads will work with the Mach 1N triggers at full power only, but it's really a bit pointless to use the Mach 1N to (effectively) shorten the flash duration to 1/8000th when the lights themselves can produce a 1/20.000th flash duration.

But given it will be less than 10 w/s output

Not true. the SF600 can produce 600 Ws and the SF300 can produce 300Ws. Although the flash durations become shorter as the power setting is reduced, there is no need to reduce it to the minimum to get much faster flash durations than any other flash head can produce, and not every subject will need them to be as short as they can possibly be anyway.

Various questions about sequence shots...
At Focus we did a number of demos of Jade being squirted with water. I'll post those sequences as soon as I have them.

Right now, I've just got back from Focus, I have 1281 emails in my inbox, there is a whole stack of things to do and I'm in for a couple of very long days

 

[JonathanRyan]

Not true. the SF600 can produce 600 Ws and the SF300 can produce 300Ws.

OK.......

I was assuming the fastest "recycle" times were at minimum power. So your 20 fps would be at 1/32 power which is a bit less than 10 w/s on a 300 w/s head. (Calculated on my fingers and I probably dropped a stop somewhere).

Delighted to hear it's more.

Do you have the numbers yet?

 

[Sebastian]

Garry - It would be great/useful to see power vs flash duration table

 

[mike weeks]

Well, the new SF heads will work with the Mach 1N triggers at full power only, but it's really a bit pointless to use the Mach 1N to (effectively) shorten the flash duration to 1/8000th when the lights themselves can produce a 1/20.000th flash duration.

Garry,

not looking at using the triggers to shorten the flash duration, rather to ensure triggering occurs at the right time to sync with 1/1000s as an example and I am sure that the answer will be no unless it can pulse like my SB800 due to the size of the travelling shutter slit - would be great if it did though.

Mike

 

[HoppyUK]

Garry,

not looking at using the triggers to shorten the flash duration, rather to ensure triggering occurs at the right time to sync with 1/1000s as an example and I am sure that the answer will be no unless it can pulse like my SB800 due to the size of the travelling shutter slit - would be great if it did though.

Mike

Mike, what you're after is high speed sync (proper, pulsing HSS or FP-sync) and these new Lencartas don't do that. HSS is not the same as hypersync, neither peak nor tail, and it's tail-hypersync that the Mach triggers use which, paradoxically, works best with long flash durations.

These new IGBT heads raise as many questions as they answer and I can see a lot of confusion coming up about what they can do. They're basically just big hot-shoe guns, with two or three stops more light output. Same advantages and limitations, but more power, and hot-shoe guns are generally not great with tail-hypersync techniques. If Lencarta's t.1 estimate of 1/800sec flash duration at full power is right, then my guess is that's too short for tail-hypersync to work well. You'd be better off with a Safari Li-on by the sounds if it.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Actually it's not an estimate, these things are measured with a high-end oscilloscope.

It does work (at full power only) with the Mach 1N, I've tested it.

My point really is that it is a solution in its own right and, in the studio at least, it would be much better to use the SuperFast flash head than the Mach 1N, both because of the totally even lighting produced by the Suyperfast and because it has even better action-stopping potential than the Mach 1N. But, used outdoors where the objective is to minimise the effect of ambient light, the Mach 1N would achieve that - but wouldn't achieve it any better with the SuperFast heads than with any other heads.

There is of course another significant advantage with the SuperFast heads, compared with cobbling a number of hotshoe flashguns together - the modelling lamp - plus of course, the S-fit accessory mount.

Power -v- flash duration table... I already have all this info from my testing. I will get it organised, but I need to prioritise some other things, so it will take a while.

 

[HoppyUK]

Actually it's not an estimate, these things are measured with a high-end oscilloscope.

It does work (at full power only) with the Mach 1N, I've tested it.

My point really is that it is a solution in its own right and, in the studio at least, it would be much better to use the SuperFast flash head than the Mach 1N, both because of the totally even lighting produced by the Suyperfast and because it has even better action-stopping potential than the Mach 1N. But, used outdoors where the objective is to minimise the effect of ambient light, the Mach 1N would achieve that - but wouldn't achieve it any better with the SuperFast heads than with any other heads.

There is of course another significant advantage with the SuperFast heads, compared with cobbling a number of hotshoe flashguns together - the modelling lamp - plus of course, the S-fit accessory mount.

Power -v- flash duration table... I already have all this info from my testing. I will get it organised, but I need to prioritise some other things, so it will take a while.

I'm just going by the website Garry, that says t.1 duration of 1/800sec at full power, both SF300 and SF600 identical, but dramatically different minimum durations, ie 1/20,000sec and 1/5000sec. Is that confirmed? In which case t.5 times must be 2x or 3x shorter than quoted t.1, which is going a bit, and doesn't bode well for good tail-hypersync performance. Guess we need to see your full table