New Grey or secondhand?

Would you prefer to buy new grey or unknown pre-owned?

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Peter69

Peter69

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No
Just for discussion:

I'm sad and like looking at prices.
If you monitor ebay you will soon see some pre-owned camera equipment sells for about the same as new grey imports.

Looking at D7100 bodies they are priced, pre-owned on ebay at about £450-£550 and using big UK importers £490-£590.
D800s are the same and so are a lot of newer lenses.
 
I've been considering buying grey from HDEW due to the warranty they offer, but I' d be less keen to buy from Hong Kong with the risk of having to send it back there if I had any problem with the gear.
 
I had this dilemna earlier, a second hand tokina 11-16 went for £297. I can get a new one from panamoz for £346 with 3 years warranty...
 
these are shop warranties though... if anyhting goes wrong you could be waiitng months to get it sorted.... I would only deal with manufacturers warranties...you can send straight back to source and quicker dealt with.. dont event bother contacting the shop.. all they are going to do is send back to manufacturer..
 
True, but potentially still more useful than a second hand lens with unknown history and no idea on warranty status.
 
miker said:
True, but potentially still more useful than a second hand lens with unknown history and no idea on warranty status.
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absoloutly... was comparing waranties v warranties... no warranty hmm would depend how much I was spending.. I spent 10 yrs wheeling and dealing buying second hand gear to build up my kit... when I started paying thousands for gear I went new for warranty... with canon grey imports OK on all lenses as canon uk will honour warranty... grey import on cameras will also be honoured if you can prove bought from a UK retailer with uk reciept... I did that so got cheaper goods and uk manufacturers warranty :)
 
Peter B said:
I've been considering buying grey from HDEW due to the warranty they offer, but I' d be less keen to buy from Hong Kong with the risk of having to send it back there if I had any problem with the gear.
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I had a problem with a Tamy 2.8 17-50 i bought from Digital Rev, they were nothing but exemplary in their communications and sorting out the problem which did mean sending it back to Hong Kong. Turn around time was about 2 weeks all postage paid etc..This was the same question i had grey or second hand and at £100 cheaper there rather than here, i stumped for there. Yes there was a problem but it was sorted.
 
KIPAX said:
absoloutly... was comparing waranties v warranties... no warranty hmm would depend how much I was spending.. I spent 10 yrs wheeling and dealing buying second hand gear to build up my kit... when I started paying thousands for gear I went new for warranty... with canon grey imports OK on all lenses as canon uk will honour warranty... grey import on cameras will also be honoured if you can prove bought from a UK retailer with uk reciept... I did that so got cheaper goods and uk manufacturers warranty :)
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Yeah it's a decision you have to make case by case. In my instance it's very touch and go which way is best. I still haven't made my mind up!
 
It's a global market nowadays so most warrantys are covered worldwide. Get the best deal you can, the corporations that sell us all these goods certainly do!
 
I bought a tokina 11-16 lens from HDEW about 3 months ago and its been spot on, hopefully i'll not have to use the warranty but i guess thats the risk you take buying grey.
I was willing to take the risk considering is was £309 including delivery whereas Jessops were selling it for £599.99 at the time, it was literally half the price.
I've just bought a grey 6D yesterday which hopefully will be arriving in the next few days once paypal pull their fingers out and release the payment to panamoz.
Again in my opinion its worth the risk as i paid £978.00 inc delivery from Panamoz whereas Jessops and WEX its £1299.00

If i could afford to i'd probably buy from the UK retailers but for the money you save and with a young family its far too tempting to buy grey.
 
At the end of the day it’s all down to personal risk. My last 2 purchases over the passed 4 months (UK sourced) and amounted to quite a large combined sum parting hands have been used equipment and have had no complaints and significantly cheaper than grey imports or UK prices for the new version. Would I buy grey imports, maybe, but only from the likes of DigitalRev or flashcameras who have been established for years, but when you buy a grey import do remember that there is a distinct possibility that you could get stung for tax and import duty which would dent any differences in prices.
 
I would never pay more or even close to grey import price for used gear, no point as far as I can tell. That said there is still lots of used gear that is far cheaper than buying shiny new and I'm quite happy buying that.
 
I have bought all my 4 Canon lenses, all L versions, here from TP Classified. And also Extenders. All with no problems as the Classifieds here are very well run and can be trusted.

However, I bought my Canon 70D body new from Park Cameras - Not the very cheapest but still very competitive. I have a 7D Mark II on order from them and will sell my 70D on TP.

It's not always about the money but a balance between various considerations including aftersales service and personal relationship.

And don't forget the value of Peace of Mind!
 
@RedRobin don't forget we are talking second hand v grey. I think if new UK prices are close then I'd always buy UK just for the warranty.
I'm looking for a Tamron 24-70. They appear to use the customer as their QC department with about 25% returns. The 5 year warranty is a must and well worth the £120 imo
 
I've had good experience of Panamoz and they have a UK office for dealing with warranty issues. They also provide a 3 year warranty, which is realistically longer than I'll own the camera.
I'd definitely prefer grey import with some form of warranty than used from a private seller with none at all, especially looking at the prices some people are willing to pay on eBay.
 
I wouldn't touch eBay! That's just me - I totally mistrust it unless I personally know the seller and he/she has a shop on it. TP Classifieds for me - Nothing but good experiences so far, including one this very morning.
 
I'm very wary about Ebay purchases as well and certainly would never sell on the site. Currently they have a serious security flaw that they have known about for months but seemingly not yet resolved according to the BBC. I have bought cheap OM lenses and flash guns from there and everything has been OK so far. I certainly wouldn't buy an expensive secondhand camera bodies unless it was from a known and reputable company. I do buy from the various London Camera Exchange shops and find that sometimes items are priced at below Ebay values, my last two purchases have been a Lumix G3 body for £80 and a Metz 58 AF-2 C Flash, also £80. Any issues I had have been resolved immediately, a secondhand Canon 50mm F1.8 turned out to be stolen, I was asked to return it and received a brand new lens in exchange.
 
I'm in the market for a light meter. Grey imports are looking very attractive! Just trying to work out who pays the tax on items seems a little "grey" unfortunately. Have bought second hand gear from a fuji forum and had no problems. Looking forward to getting access here. I find communities like this 99% of the time look after each other.
 
HarveyM said:
I'm very wary about Ebay purchases as well and certainly would never sell on the site. Currently they have a serious security flaw that they have known about for months but seemingly not yet resolved according to the BBC.
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If your going to throw stones then lets have some links to facts please?

HarveyM said:
I certainly wouldn't buy an expensive secondhand camera bodies unless it was from a known and reputable company.
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But surely thats common sense for anywhere.. internet or real life.. not somehting just ebay?

HarveyM said:
I do buy from the various London Camera Exchange shops and find that sometimes items are priced at below Ebay values, my last two purchases have been a Lumix G3 body for £80 and a Metz 58 AF-2 C Flash, also £80. Any issues I had have been resolved immediately, a secondhand Canon 50mm F1.8 turned out to be stolen, I was asked to return it and received a brand new lens in exchange.
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Oh my god! I ahve been using ebay for years and years and never bought anyhting that was stolen.. yet your saying the london camera shops are better? but they are selling stolen goods?

Sorry but can't you see the irony in slagging off ebay and telling us your shops are better but you bought a stolen lens? :)
 
Link to BBC Article - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29310042
LCE Chester bought a secondhand lens in good faith from a call-in seller and required proof of identity. The lens turned out to be stolen, Police notified, thief arrested and I got a new lens, so all ends well except for the thief and a hit to LCE profits, the point is I received service beyond what might be have been expected. As a member of a motorcycle club, I'm also aware that a couple of members have been surprised to see photos of their motorcycles in a listing that they had not raised! I note another thread on this website where the buyer has been unable to get Paypal to honor a cash back guarantee for defective goods and my own experience of the frustration of communicating with Ebay.........
I don't think it is out of order for me to say that I personally am wary of high value transactions. If others have had wonderful experiences with Ebay and can filter XSS listings, that's fine by me and long may they continue to do so.

Let me add that I am just a customer of LCE and also purchase from the other major players (Jessops, Cameraworld etc.).
 
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HarveyM said:
I don't think it is out of order for me to say that I personally am wary of high value transactions. If others have had wonderful experiences with Ebay and can filter XSS listings, that's fine by me and long may they continue to do so.
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I agree I dont think its out of order for you to say that either.. never suggested it.. was .. each to there own...


BUT


you said about ebay "Currently they have a serious security flaw" ... So can you back that up or not? All you ahve done is quote someones bad experience of which I am sure there are lots...no denying that.. But i am more interested in this security flaw that YOU say ebay have know about for months..
 
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brucegill said:
Just trying to work out who pays the tax on items seems a little "grey" unfortunately. QUOTE]
The short answer is YOU.
You could argue that a UK company selling imported products is responsible as you haven't imported, they have and selling it on to you.
Having said that, I do not know anyone caught out on this. (I will check with my accountant Monday)
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Import VAT on digital cameras is 20% (edit)
Digital Rev prices excludes VAT as do Panamoz (read T&Cs). (edit)
HMRC clearly places the 'recipient' as the payer of duty/ import tax.
This is easy if you are buying from a Hong Kong trader on Ebay etc, not so clear if you are paying from a UK redistributor as they are obliged to charge you VAT as per any sale.
 
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Peter69 said:
Import duty on digital cameras is 20%
Digital Rev prices include VAT as do Panamoz (read T&Cs).
HMRC clearly places the 'recipient' as the payer of duty/ import tax.
This is easy if you are buying from a Hong Kong trader on Ebay etc, not so clear if you are paying from a UK redistributor as they are obliged to charge you VAT as per any sale.
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There are so many errors in here, I almost don't know where to begin. Every single statement you made is false.

There is no import duty on digital cameras but there is of course 20% VAT..
Digital Rev prices do not include VAT.
HMRC place the responsibility on the importer, not the recipient.
UK redistributors are not obliged to charge you VAT unless their turnover exceeds £81,000. (But they are obliged to pay VAT when the import.)
 
brucegill said:
Looks like Panamoz pay the duty for you, or more precisely the price is inclusive of the duty.
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Or more precisely the price is exclusive of import duty and VAT, but if you get charged by HMRC when the item is imported then Panamoz say they will refund you.
 
Apologies, I misread their T&CS (perhaps I wanted to read Inclusive rather then what it actually said -exclusive.
From DigitalRev
The price for the goods quoted on the website shall be exclusive of all costs of carriage and insurance and applicable import Tax/VAT/GST and duty which the buyer shall pay in addition

This is from HMRC
The recipient of the goods is responsible for the payment of duties and taxes, unless the invoice specifies that a third party should be billed.
&
If you're ordering goods from outside the EU, any Import VAT must be paid by the recipient once the goods have arrived in the UK but before the goods are delivered
There is loads of guidance on HMRCs site.

And, of course you are right that this is import VAT not duty.

So taking DigitalRev as an example their price including VAT is£766.80 for a new D7100 body Jessops is £768.
 
Peter69 said:
This is from HMRC
The recipient of the goods is responsible for the payment of duties and taxes...
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I do apologise. You're right. Of course in most cases the importer and the recipient would be the same. But when they're not the same, if person A buys something from outside the EU to be delivered to person B, then person B (the recipient) is responsible for the import duty and VAT.
 
I find it depends on the price and saving. Even more so with some companies than others. If I am buying a lens less than £500, I'm more likely to buy it grey market than one over £500.

But anything over £500 and I really have to take into consideration, whether its worth the saving for the extra hassle if something goes wrong. E.g. my 300mm f4 was from Wex, even though it as £250 more than Digitalrev, as Hdew didn't have it and Digitalrev have screwed me over on a broken lens before.

For Greymarket items, Hdew is my go to shop. Their customer service is great, they're better than Digitalrev and also cheaper on a lot of things. E.g. Tokina 11-16mm DXII was £329, Digitalrev wanted £375. Hdew is also in the UK, so you have the benefit of distance selling regulations etc to protect you if stuff goes wrong. With Digitalrev, you're at their mercy as to whether they will cover your damaged lens.

I will buy something from Digitalrev if the saving is huge, and if I don't mind risking it being broken. The thought of risking another lens purchase from them makes me cringe. They sent me a lens last April which arrived with a smashed up filter ring and scratches on the lens, and refused to deal with it as it wasn't manufacturer damage. Their site says you're covered for transit damage, but they wouldn't do jack. Luckily it was only a £200 lens.

I'll buy used and refurb from Wex and Mpbphotographic. At least wex offers a 1 year warranty on their refurb and can have good offers.

I buy some used stuff off eBay but it tends to be less than £100 or things like tripods and filters.
 
@Alisonfd don't forget we are comparing New grey to second hand. I think New Grey v New EU/UK is a different argument because of warranty issues.
 
grey but only from HDEW due to warranty, exceptional customer service and speed of dealing with any issues that arise
 
@dean messenger as I said to Alison, you don't normally get a warranty on second hand items (and buying new, even Grey from Hong Kong you still have section 75 of the consumer credit act if you use a credit card (or apparently an overdrawn account).
Does this change your mind on grey or second hand?
 
not really. i'll but small stuff secondhand on ebay using paypal knowing im covered but nothing really over around £50. as for buying from HongKong well i dont have a credit card ( never had one never want one thanks ) and its not just the hassle of if its faulty. but the hassle of if it goes wrong. seen prime examples of that posted on here with people trying to get a faulty item isse sorted when they purchased from digital rev. having dealt with HDEW several times ( that and them being local to me ) i know exatcly what im getting in terms of after sales support.

Dont get me wrong though there are plenty of UK companies i wouldnt buy from if you paid me ( Currys/pcworld and the now thankfully gone Comet ive had nightmare dealings with in the past over in warranty faulty goods )

so end of the day its not down to grey, secondhand or new its down the the vendor
 
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