New Canon to choose. Help needed.

[Relkraps]

Hi Folks

I've landed here in an effort to help me decide on which new camera to get.

What I photograph - macro, wildlife, some landscape, some street photography, dabble with astro.

What I want - a new Canon camera not second hand and not another make. I have some nice L glass and I love Canon set ups.

The choices and this is where is gets complicated for 1 reason only tbh.

7DMkII - 90d - 6d MKII - 5DMkIV

Which - But

I shoot 4k footage a fair bit. I have a 750d
Some are going to realise that a 750d doesn't do 4k. But it does. Well it produces 4k. If you don't know it defaults to PAL. But find that in its menu and switch it to NTSC and you get extra options. One of which is Ultra HD. Which is recognised as 4k across most 4k footage platforms. I think its 256 pixels less than 4k. But then 23.59 fps isn't 24 fps and 5 foot 7 and 3/4 isn't 5foot 8. Anyway this is the issue.

I had settled on the 90d because

Flippy screen - essential for macro. 120fps for slow mo. In camera focus stacking helps workforce. Shoots 4k uncropped. 10fps. Digic 8 processor. It's a bit of a beast. But there are mentions online from its initial release that the 4k is soft. To get it sharper you need to crop enable. Trying to find examples of this softness is, well I have found, hard. So I'm almost sold on the 90d.

But 6dmkII (allegedly doesn't do 4k). Or is it a case of it doesn't unless you select NTSC as above. 6 fps. I like it. Digic 6.

7dMkII - has its following obviously but isn't touch screen or flippy. Only 1 focus point at f8 which is bad. Digic 5 processor. Its a beast. I think it's had its day tho. And couldn't find it new. Well unless I use clickclacksnapsimports.com or the like. And I wouldn't.

5dmkIV - no flippy but I'd suffer that, 4k but only stop motion 4k. Wtf. So I think this is either cobblers or its true. If its true its dead to me.

Bit of a long winded post but I'm really stuck.

Budget now 1000ish but could save for 2000

Macro and wildlife priority. I'm open to mirrorless but haven't explored those and when searching for best wildlife canon they aren't at the forefront of go to cameras in the articles I've read. Suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance

 

[Chipper]

Mirrorless is not going to be a fad. It has been here quite some time now and Canon are now fully committed to it. All their R+D is now for the RF range of lenses and R bodies. . I don't think the DSLR will die [until parts become impossible] and will be like the movement for some to shoot film again. You don't say which lenses you have but they adapt perfectly well to mirrorless FF bodies. I have both 5D4 and the R6. However, if you are set on 90D then have at!

 

[Relkraps]

I looked at the R6 tbh. But I would have to buy the adapter ring.
Lenses

Ef 100-400 f 4.5-5.6L IS II USM

Ef 100 f 2.8L IS USM​

Does the 5d mkIV only shoot 4K in stop motion or can you shoot 4k as normal?

I'm leaning toward the 90d but if it's 4k is soft ... its off putting. I don't have one so I can't test it myself and as I said I'm not able to find examples online. Only reviews parroting the fact and they seem mostly from 2019.

 

[RichardC27]

The 7D MkII was discontinued in 2018 so you'll struggle to find them new now, and as you say it's an older camera. Nothing wrong with that, it'll still take excellent images and it's ergonomically light years ahead of the 90D.

You've got a mix of APS-C and Full Frame sensors in there, so is sensor size important to you? . Any reason you're so set on DSLRs when all the new Canon bodies and lenses are going to be RF mount mirrorless? It's not going to be a fad, the flappy mirror isn't ever going to come back. The sensors and processors are the same whether there's an optical or electronic viewfinder so not sure what "quality" people will come back to? Just not sure I'd be investing a couple of grand into a dead system at this point in time.

 

[LCPete]

I used to think that mirrorless would never replace DSLR but since trying mirrorless would never go back
I also use the EF 100 L macro among others and the EF lenses work better on the R5 than on my7D 2 or 6D2 did with the adapter which isn’t expensive and can be bought bundled with the camera

 

[Relkraps]

The 7D MkII was discontinued in 2018 so you'll struggle to find them new now, and as you say it's an older camera. Nothing wrong with that, it'll still take excellent images and it's ergonomically light years ahead of the 90D.

You've got a mix of APS-C and Full Frame sensors in there, so is sensor size important to you? . Any reason you're so set on DSLRs when all the new Canon bodies and lenses are going to be RF mount mirrorless? It's not going to be a fad, the flappy mirror isn't ever going to come back. The sensors and processors are the same whether there's an optical or electronic viewfinder so not sure what "quality" people will come back to? Just not sure I'd be investing a couple of grand into a dead system at this point in time.

Hi and thanks for the reply. Sensor size isn't important although with full frame I'll lose some depth of field. But compromises are inevitable with a budget.

I'll remove the comment regarding mirroless it appears to be detracting from the actual questions I have asked.

 

[RichardC27]

Hi and thanks for the reply. Sensor size isn't important although with full frame I'll lose some depth of field. But compromises are inevitable with a budget.

I'll remove the comment regarding mirroless it appears to be detracting from the actual questions I have asked.

In that case I'd say the 90D is the best all rounder in there. I've had an 80D for the past few years and it's a great camera. Can't comment on the video side of the things as I never use it but for stills it's great.

 

[Relkraps]

In that case I'd say the 90D is the best all rounder in there. I've had an 80D for the past few years and it's a great camera. Can't comment on the video side of the things as I never use it but for stills it's great.

Ha yeah thank you. I almost did buy the 90d because I've been looking to upgrade to more fps for some time for the photography side of things. Never hurts to have more fps in wildlife. But I do film them. Particularly insects. And when I read that the 4k was soft I tried to find examples. None. I'm sure they exist and I'm sure the experts here would know. But I cannot find a single example. And macro is tough enough without the footage being soft.
It's also poor at view finder focus accuracy according to many reviews. And yet that issue has been explained as lower quality glass causing resolution issues on a packed to bursting sensor along with poor technique. I use a tripod and shutter release (I have enough internal wobble) so I can mitigate a lot of that.

 

[rob-nikon]

The easy way to see what suits you would be to use canons test drive. You can try out selected cameras and lenses for free for 2 days. It’s a good way to try before you buy.

I tried out the R6 in June and recently picked one up due to the double cashback offer on Black Friday.

There are some advantages of mirrorless over DSLRs for wildlife photography. One is eye AF. At first I thought it was a gimmick but I’ve been surprised when the situation suits it it does work well. It doesn’t work in every situation but that can’t be expected. I’d expect a cropped mirrorless body to be coming at some point soon now the R3 is out.

One thing that is well known is mirrorless will in time take over from DSLRs. Canon is all in on mirrorless having turned their manufacturing, and very likely research/development, to mirrorless only production. The good news at least is that EF lenses work very well on mirrorless R cameras making the change easier. I’d expect there will be natural wastage of DSLRs and EF lenses as spares become unavailable to repair them in the future. Depending on the level of parts available that could be a decade or so away. It all depends on when you feel is the right time to start making the swap. Whether that’s now or in the future.

 

[TimHughes]

@Relkraps 5DM4 shoots 4K up to 30 fps. Check out the canon spec sheet.

 

[Relkraps]

I saw and as the standard is 24, 30 is ok but it says its made of mjpgs which I think I've now sussed means you can screen grab jpgs from the 4k. I'll have another rummage at the 5d. Thank you.

 

[Plain Nev]

Does it matter? They will all do the job, I'm sure. Most important is to handle the things and see which you find more comfortable.

 

[Relkraps]

The easy way to see what suits you would be to use canons test drive. You can try out selected cameras and lenses for free for 2 days. It’s a good way to try before you buy ...

Technically it is free but for the 5d they want £746.00 transferred first. If you hire during the week it isnt two days. Its nearer 1. They deliver at some point during the day and pick up the next day at some point. Over a weekend you have to pay rent which you won't get back. So, a faf.

 

[Relkraps]

When you are spending 1000+ ... yeah. Ergonomics is the least important thing to me. They will have been designed to fit an average hand. Weight is important but none of the options cause an issue when you lug a 100-400 around on it. We are humans and can adapt to any equipment. As long as the equipment does what we need. I can read canned reviews all day long but they aren't experience. That's why I came to a forum that has a title of "Talk Equipment." I did didn't I? Maybe I hit the wrong link its happened before ... I did NOT know that meant that.

 

[rob-nikon]

Technically it is free but for the 5d they want £746.00 transferred first. If you hire during the week it isnt two days. Its nearer 1. They deliver at some point during the day and pick up the next day at some point. Over a weekend you have to pay rent which you won't get back. So, a faf.

The deposit is returnable on return of the hired equipment. I get why they are asking for a returnable deposit as they are sending out thousand of pounds worth of kit.

My experience seems different to yours. I hired over the weekend so got two full days as it was to be delivered on the Friday and collected on the Monday. As they had delivery issues they actually sent it early got it on the Thursday. I didn’t pay anything to have it for those days.

When looking on the website other than the deposit the hire of a R6 for Saturday 14th and Sunday 15th January is showing as £0.00. Even the days 11th January and 12th January are showing at £0.00 with delivery on 10th and collection on 13th. That seems to be different to what you’re expecting.







I honestly found it to be a very easy process. They even include a paid return postage label so it didn’t cost me anything other than lending them the deposit for around a week or two. I’d do it again if there was a lens I was thinking of that was available on there. It was as good as lens for hire who are my benchmark for camera kit hire.

 

[woof woof]

Relkraps, do yourself a favour and if at all possible give mirrorless a look and if it doesn't suit you you can still grab a DSLR. There are real advantages to mirrorless such as WYSIWYG and being able to focus consistently and accurately anywhere in the frame and this with face / eye detect and some of the other bells and whistles can be real game changers. These things may not sway you but I think you need to at least take a quick look.

 

[Relkraps]

@rob-nikon
It wouldn't actually allow me to select two days. 6th January was next available day and return on the 7th was autofilled it also had a pop up stating that their usual process of dropping off to allow two days was not happening and they would drop off on the selected day at some point and pick up the next day ttba. I thought oh well at least I'd have a quick go and see. Then at checkout they wanted £767. I've got it obviously because I have the money for a camera. But only the money for a camera. If a deal comes up I'm screwed until their version of 7 to 10 working days passes. I get why a deposit obviously. But I don't have oodles to pass back and forth and still lunge on a deal.

 

[Relkraps]

Do you have any suggestions based on the criteria above. I'm not anti mirrorless. I'm not excited by it tbh but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[woof woof]

Do you have any suggestions based on the criteria above. I'm not anti mirrorless. I'm not excited by it tbh but I'm open to suggestions.

Me? No, sorry, as it's been years since I had Canon kit so I'm completely out of touch. I moved to Sony, I went for Sony because at the time they were the only ones making FF mirrorless cameras but these days you can stay with Canon if you wish or go FF with Sony or Nikon or go APS-C or even MFT.

 

[sphexx]

Ergonomics is the least important thing to me. They will have been designed to fit an average hand.

I’d bet there)s no such thing as an “average“ hand in any real sense. I’ll bet that the hands that develop when you eat with a knife & fork vs chopsticks vs fingersfor example are all quite different. Faces certainly vary with the language and cultures they develop in as you can see just by looking at the tv .

How this affect cameras and whose hands (Japanese?) they are designed for I’ve no idea.

 

[rob-nikon]

@rob-nikon
It wouldn't actually allow me to select two days. 6th January was next available day and return on the 7th was autofilled it also had a pop up stating that their usual process of dropping off to allow two days was not happening and they would drop off on the selected day at some point and pick up the next day ttba. I thought oh well at least I'd have a quick go and see. Then at checkout they wanted £767. I've got it obviously because I have the money for a camera. But only the money for a camera. If a deal comes up I'm screwed until their version of 7 to 10 working days passes. I get why a deposit obviously. But I don't have oodles to pass back and forth and still lunge on a deal.

I was able to select via the calendar as I didn’t use the next available date. I didn’t see any pop ups.

I understand not wanting to tie up the money for that period. Just thought I’d mention it as you seemed unsure which model you were looking thinking of so I didn’t think you were at the buying stage just yet.

 

[rob-nikon]

I’d bet there)s no such thing as an “average“ hand in any real sense. I’ll bet that the hands that develop when you eat with a knife & fork vs chopsticks vs fingersfor example are all quite different. Faces certainly vary with the language and cultures they develop in as you can see just by looking at the tv .

How this affect cameras and whose hands (Japanese?) they are designed for I’ve no idea.

I can confirm ergonomics are very different on Sony and Canon so there probably isn’t an average hand. The Canon R6 feels much better in my hand than the Sony A9 did (it was one of the reasons I changed along with the more compact 70-200 f4 and there being a 300mm f4 version I could adapt). Sony’s are very small in comparison to canons mirrorless range and DSLRs. I reckon it’s partly due to the mirrorless is much smaller than DSLRs marketing when they first released the Sony mirrorless camera range.

 

[Relkraps]

I know right. It was a previous post that said theyd all do the job and that I needed to handle them and feel which one was more comfortable. But my first ... well not my first by a long shot ... my most recent camera 750d was a surprise. I had no choice. It fit my hand perfectly. In fact finding the 4k option should have removed any issue and tbh I'd happily carry on with it. But the autofocus is a at times and I've missed some beautiful footage and shot because of hunting and autofocus breathing. Or it's just focused an inch in front of the subject. The 90d focus brackets. The others might too. But they do have duel focus, the 750d does not. And I'm of a certain age now where I am stabbing myself in the face trying to get my glasses on fast enough to live view the shot .... because my arms aren't long enough to hold the screen far enough away. I could do with a brutal autofocus.

 

[sphexx]

I can confirm ergonomics are very different on Sony and Canon so there probably isn’t an average hand. The Canon R6 feels much better in my hand than the Sony A9 did (it was one of the reasons I changed along with the more compact 70-200 f4 and there being a 300mm f4 version I could adapt). Sony’s are very small in comparison to canons mirrorless range and DSLRs. I reckon it’s partly due to the mirrorless is much smaller than DSLRs marketing when they first released the Sony mirrorless camera range.

The OP‘s right that you can “adapt to anything” but probably in this case it depends on what kind of photography or mix of cameras you are using. If it’s a fast changing situation and using several cameras and/or lenses the ergonomics and compatibility will be possibly mote inpotant than in a static landscape type of situation on a tripod & so on.

 

[nandbytes]

Canon have openly said they are concentrating on mirrorless on several occasions. Most recent one here

Update: Canon CEO confirms the 1DX Mark III will be the company's last flagship DSLR

It probably shouldn't come as a surprise, but this is the first confirmation we've seen regarding the future of Canon's storied EOS-1 camera lineup, which got its start back in 1989.

m.dpreview.com

If I were buying new I wouldn't spend my money on DSLR gear that'll drastically lose value over time.

 

[Relkraps]

Not to be a pedant but there is. Its either small medium or large. Like most glove sizes. And socks 6 to 11.

The average hand length of an adult female is 6.8 inches, whereas the hand length of an adult male is 7.6 inches.

Maybe you are above average

 

[sphexx]

And I'm of a certain age now where I am stabbing myself in the face trying to get my glasses on fast enough to live view the shot .

Isn’t that an argument for mirrorless?

You've probably excluded most of the ergonomic problems by sticking with Canon.

 

[sphexx]

Not to be a pedant but there is. Its either small medium or large. Like most glove sizes. And socks 6 to 11.

Not sure if you are replying to me but all my socks are size 11-13.

 

[Relkraps]

@sphexx
I don't know is it. I have while I've been reading here had a rummage at mirroless equivilants to the 90d. M6 MkII ... its sub par on a few fronts. Specs are similar but a clip on view finder. That's a bit iffy on paper. But the killer was 90d 1300 shots per battery .... M6 303 ish. Wow. Just .... wow. I know which one Greta Thunberg wants me to buy.

 

[TimHughes]

For what you are looking for, they will all be fine. Canon R plus EF to RF converted would be within your stretch budget too. R6 is better again but above your budget.

 

[woof woof]

@sphexx
I don't know is it. I have while I've been reading here had a rummage at mirroless equivilants to the 90d. M6 MkII ... its sub par on a few fronts. Specs are similar but a clip on view finder. That's a bit iffy on paper. But the killer was 90d 1300 shots per battery .... M6 303 ish. Wow. Just .... wow. I know which one Greta Thunberg wants me to buy.

I suppose you do know this but I'll state the obvious anyway... You don't throw the batteries away, you recharge them. I suppose it's an inconvenience getting only hundreds or low thousands of shots out of a battery and then having to swap it over but carrying a spare or two isn't the end of the world and changing batteries is quicker than loading a new film.

 

[Relkraps]

I suppose you do know this but I'll state the obvious anyway... You don't throw the batteries away, you recharge them. I suppose it's an inconvenience getting only hundreds or low thousands of shots out of a battery and then having to swap it over but carrying a spare or two isn't the end of the world and changing batteries is quicker than loading a new film.

I think that was for me. Yeah I am aware lol. But on an average bug hunt day I will take about 700 photos and roughly use live view for about an hour spread over the day. That implies I would need 3 batteries for the M6 at least. Assuming I get one with the body and I don't want to buy a lookie like - that's another £150.00 on batteries to make sure I have enough juice for the day. I could buy a rather fetching garden gnome for that kind of dosh. But yeah I would buy spare batteries but 303 shots is pants. Less in raw and live view would kill it in minutes at a guess.

 

[woof woof]

I think that was for me. Yeah I am aware lol. But on an average bug hunt day I will take about 700 photos and roughly use live view for about an hour spread over the day. That implies I would need 3 batteries for the M6 at least. Assuming I get one with the body and I don't want to buy a lookie like - that's another £150.00 on batteries to make sure I have enough juice for the day. I could buy a rather fetching garden gnome for that kind of dosh. But yeah I would buy spare batteries but 303 shots is pants. Less in raw and live view would kill it in minutes at a guess.

Maybe users of any mirrorless cameras you may be interested in could give some real world feedback. I don't think I'd be looking at a M series camera as isn't Canon moving away from that mount? I may be wrong so it's worth someone else commenting on this.

 

[sphexx]

I think that was for me. Yeah I am aware lol. But on an average bug hunt day I will take about 700 photos and roughly use live view for about an hour spread over the day. That implies I would need 3 batteries for the M6 at least. Assuming I get one with the body and I don't want to buy a lookie like - that's another £150.00 on batteries to make sure I have enough juice for the day. I could buy a rather fetching garden gnome for that kind of dosh. But yeah I would buy spare batteries but 303 shots is pants. Less in raw and live view would kill it in minutes at a guess.

For some brands (don’t know about Canon) 3rd party batteries are very reliable and a lot cheaper.

 

[woof woof]

For some brands (don’t know about Canon) 3rd party batteries are very reliable and a lot cheaper.

I have three 3rd party batteries and all have worked well. Actually I only bought one and two came "free" with a battery charger and they actually have a higher rating than the branded battery I have. But, 3rd party batteries can have issues as some cameras don't recognise them properly so best to look into this if buying 3rd party batteries.

 

[Relkraps]

@woof woof @sphexx
I'm wary of 3rd party rechargeable batteries. I keep spares in my pocket. I don't have enough unmentionables left to have what I do have vaporised by a cheapo that went chernobyl next to them. I could handle a drippy weeping eveready back in the day. But after doing a drone course and learning about rechargeable batteries ... I'll stick with branded.

 

[woof woof]

They almost certainly wont Chernobyl. I've been using third party batteries for years without a problem but mine is an older camera and newer cameras, as I mentioned above, may be programmed to only recognise the manufacturers own batteries so the 3rd party guys may need time to back engineer a way around this.

I think you are maybe reluctant to go down this route and you may be more comfortable with DSLR's and that's your choice but I do think that mirrorless is at least worth a look before you dismiss the idea completely as there are some real tangible real world benefits including possibly avoiding many of the focusing issues you mentioned earlier. If you take a look and decide you're not interested the DSLR option will still be there.

 

[sphexx]

I have three 3rd party batteries and all have worked well. Actually I only bought one and two came "free" with a battery charger and they actually have a higher rating than the branded battery I have. But, 3rd party batteries can have issues as some cameras don't recognise them properly so best to look into this if buying 3rd party batteries.

It’s damned annoying about battery types in general (and printer cartridges!), not just photography.

I was caught out when I bought the very first M43, the Lumix G1. It took 3rd party batteries until Panasonic helpfully provided a firmware upgrade that banished them

 

[woof woof]

It’s damned annoying about battery types in general (and printer cartridges!), not just photography.

I was caught out when I bought the very first M43, the Lumix G1. It took 3rd party batteries until Panasonic helpfully provided a firmware upgrade that banished them

I've never hit problems so far but then I've only ever had the three third party batteries I still have today, and all for an old and therefore I expect well understood camera. I can see how it's a worry but the battery issue is IMO a side line to and a bit of a distraction from the whole DSLR v Mirrorless decision.

 

[Phil V]

Technically it is free but for the 5d they want £746.00 transferred first. If you hire during the week it isnt two days. Its nearer 1. They deliver at some point during the day and pick up the next day at some point. Over a weekend you have to pay rent which you won't get back. So, a faf.

I don’t know where you’ve got that idea from.
But the weekend hire was ‘free’ when I used it delivery should have been Friday but was Thursday, and collection was Monday. That was a clear 2 days hire with plenty of setup time.
The deposit is returned as soon as all the gear is back with the hirer and checked.