New Apple or Upgrade PC, Advice needed please.

[JonathanRyan]

and if their not a lot different, why do nearly all the photgraphers i see have macbooks ??

Because they look pretty, have nice screens and run OS X.

Forum rules prohibit any discussion of this but, yeah, it's perfectly possible to build an "equivalent" box to a Mac Pro for half the price. I know that for a fact.... iMac - probably not.

If you want to compare machines against each other then this is a handy chart.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

Anyway, get a nice graphics card and whack a 2nd monitor on your PC

 

[Chappers]

Anyway, get a nice graphics card and whack a 2nd monitor on your PC

+1

 

[neil_g]

Was in PC World or Currys getting a SatNav or something and some woman can't even buy the correct ink cartridge for her printer. What make you think the average joe can build a PC. Most people get scared when an electronic component is opened. Plus you forgot aspects such as:

1 - research, knowing what socket to match what motherboard. We are not born with this knowledge, it takes research and reading and constant update of knowing what is out there, what is going to come out and what is going to be obsolete. Buying an AMD CPU for an Intel motherboard is never going to work is it? But who knew? A lot of people don't even know you can't put Canon lenses on Nikon and vice versa. (lets not going into the adaptor ring debate).

2 - Even if someone online spec you the complete computer, with cables and stuff so you have every part. Little things like de-static yourself, knowing the steps to put it together is not the same for every case and every computer.

3 - Then there is the software, which is a whole other kettle of fish. Loads of people can't even keep a working, virus free machines. What make you think they can install windows?

I can map it

That's because you are a geek at heart

1 - if you're considering a self build then yes a certain degree of reading will be involved, but then you'd need to be researching what mac/pre build you want anyway. How are you going to know whether that nice shiney apple paperweight will run your copy of "Bobs editing suite 7.2"? But otherwise socket types, memory types blah blah blah are all clearly labelled on motherboards/components. If you're that worried then buy a bundle which will give you a motherboard, CPU and memory combo that will work together.

2 - There are loads of guides, forums, videos and other assistance available for the first timer. Oh and a little secret, I've never used a static strap in 15 odd years. As long as you're not running around in nylon socks on your carpet you'll be fine.

3 - Insert DVD, press any key to continue. Follow prompts. :shrug:

4 - There are much nicer keyboards in a windows format for much less money

5 - No, I mean faffing around with issues in a business environment.

 

[Raymond Lin]

1 - if you're considering a self build then yes a certain degree of reading will be involved, but then you'd need to be researching what mac/pre build you want anyway. How are you going to know whether that nice shiney apple paperweight will run your copy of "Bobs editing suite 7.2"? But otherwise socket types, memory types blah blah blah are all clearly labelled on motherboards/components. If you're that worried then buy a bundle which will give you a motherboard, CPU and memory combo that will work together.

2 - There are loads of guides, forums, videos and other assistance available for the first timer. Oh and a little secret, I've never used a static strap in 15 odd years. As long as you're not running around in nylon socks on your carpet you'll be fine.

3 - Insert DVD, press any key to continue. Follow prompts. :shrug:

4 - There are much nicer keyboards in a windows format for much less money

5 - No, I mean faffing around with issues in a business environment.

Say that to the lady who can't even buy the correct ink cartridge...explain to her how a self build computer is easy and cheap. Lol

There are people at work can't even figure out how to print stuff in colour (it is set to B&W in default). These people earn 6 figures salaries, they have university degrees, post grads, can argue in front of judges and hold their own but they don't know the difference between a CPU and a computer. No, they are not in their 60's, they are in their late 20's, early 30's.

Not any "monkey" can build a PC. That is a huge misconception.

I would love it that everyone in the world is such a savvy with computers, then families and friends won't constantly asking me to fix their computer time and again. I am sure I am not the only one.

 

[arad85]

I would love it that everyone in the world is such a savvy with computers, then families and friends won't constantly asking me to fix their computer time and again. I am sure I am not the only one.

I have people with PCs and Macs asking me to fix their network. They can't get the one talking to the other. They should have just stuck with PCs and then it would have been easy

 

[Raymond Lin]

Andy, still waiting for that £900 i7 rig with a 10bit 2550x1440 IPS screen.

 

[King Damager]

^^^ not the same spec, the GFX is not the same.

The GT 640 is a £60 graphic card.
The GTX 680 is a £400 graphic card.

For those who wonder why...Adobe has been slowly moving more and more work that was done in CPU to GPU.

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-cs6-gpu-faq.html

No SSD
And it is already £699 with no screen?

This is the cheapest 27" in ebuyer.

http://www.ebuyer.com/397018-asus-pb278q-27-led-lcd-hdmi-monitor-pb278q

This is the cheapest one I could find that I would consider that matches the Apple one.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-019-HO&groupid=17&catid=1120&subcat=

Hazro HZ27WB 10-Bit 27" Widescreen Professional Monitor - Black £359.99
(£299.99) £359.99
(£299.99)
Intel Core i7-3770K 3.50GHz (Ivybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor (77W) - OEM £259.99
(£216.66) £259.99
(£216.66)
Asus HD 7850 DirectCU II V2 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £139.99
(£116.66) £139.99
(£116.66)
Crucial RealSSD M4 128GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CT128M4SSD2) £89.99
(£74.99) £89.99
(£74.99)
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-Bit - OEM (GFC-02050) £79.99
(£66.66) £79.99
(£66.66)
Asus P8Z77-V LX2 Intel Z77 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £72.98
(£60.82) £72.98
(£60.82)
OcUK Tech Labs - BitFenix Shinobi USB3.0 Midi-Tower Case - Black - Noise Dampened £68.99
(£57.49) £68.99
(£57.49)
Kingston HyperX Blu 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C10 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C10D3B1K2/16G) £59.99
(£49.99) £119.98
(£99.98)
Corsair Builder Series CX 430w Modular '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply (CP-9020058-UK) £38.99
(£32.49) £38.99
(£32.49)
Alpenföhn Matterhorn Pure Edition CPU Cooler (Socket 775 / 1155 / 1156 / 1366 / AM2 / AM2+ / AM3 / FM1 / FM2) £29.99
(£24.99) £29.99
(£24.99)
OcUK 24x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £13.99
(£11.66) £13.99
(£11.66)
Sub Total : £1,062.39
Shipping cost assumes delivery to UK Mainland with:
DPD Next Day Parcel
(This can be changed during checkout) Shipping : £19.10
VAT is being charged at 20.00% VAT : £216.30

There you go.
£1300. A bit of research suggests 680m ~ 7850, although I will concede adobe prefer nVidia, so it's not quite the same. What you have in your iMac though is a 680M, not a fully fledged 680.

Didn't do any looking around for better prices though, so I'd suspect to be able to take 10% off of that price if I really wanted. Without too much hassle. Maybe even 20% if I spent a couple of weeks waiting for deals to come up.

I will concede though, that in some ways Apple is easier to set up and stuff, and to be honest, I think apple products work for the right type of people.

That said, you will ALWAYS, be able to do it cheaper on PC. Let us not forget that anyone who knows a student can also get a substantial discount on w7, or buy second hand (which makes no difference) for half the price.

kd

 

[Raymond Lin]

Hi KP!

Thanks for playing Although you have confirmed what the other guy has posted earlier and confirm it is closer to 25%.

re: Graphic card, I know it is not a full 680 but any replacement would need to be equivalent so yours would fail on the amount of Ram front even if it's no Nvidia. Sorry!

I also don't see a Hard drive, there is a SSD but not Hard Drive?

(Missing thunderbolt, webcam, mic and speakers too )

Close but no quite

p.s. no one is disputing you can build a PC cheaper, although i am challenging anyone who says they can build it 50% cheaper. 2 people have proved that it is more like 25%.

 

[arad85]

Andy, still waiting for that £900 i7 rig with a 10bit 2550x1440 IPS screen.

You've got a long wait from me - your "rules" make it impossible

For example, I would never build a system with a 2550x1440 screen - I'd prefer 2 smaller screens. And I wouldn't ever spec a 680/680M graphics processor - I never use that sort of horsepower. And as for the Apple mouse.... every time I've used one I've found it incredibly awkward as my hands are very much larger than normal peoples, so I think the mouse is an expensive paper weight and prefer an Optical Intellimouse. I do however have a better (i.e. more expensive - because, after all, cost=quality ) keyboard than the Apple one (Filco mechanical)

So, basically, OS aside, I would never build an iMac equivalent anyway as I think it is incorrectly spec'd to do what I want to do. Now if you asked to build a properly spec'd machine that is as powerful as an iMac....

 

[JonathanRyan]

Say that to the lady who can't even buy the correct ink cartridge...explain to her how a self build computer is easy and cheap. Lol

I can drive pretty well. But I had Halfords change a headlight bulb for me last week.

Little known fact: if you pick up the wrong ink cartridge in a shop then they don't have to refund. If you ask a member of staff to pick one out for you and it's wrong then they do.

 

[Raymond Lin]

You've got a long wait from me - your "rules" make it impossible

For example, I would never build a system with a 2550x1440 screen - I'd prefer 2 smaller screens. And I wouldn't ever spec a 680/680M graphics processor - I never use that sort of horsepower. And as for the Apple mouse.... every time I've used one I've found it incredibly awkward as my hands are very much larger than normal peoples, so I think the mouse is an expensive paper weight and prefer an Optical Intellimouse. I do however have a better (i.e. more expensive - because, after all, cost=quality ) keyboard than the Apple one (Filco mechanical)

So, basically, OS aside, I would never build an iMac equivalent anyway as I think it is incorrectly spec'd to do what I want to do. Now if you asked to build a properly spec'd machine that is as powerful as an iMac....

You set the rules when you made it a fact that you can

The fact that you can't speaks volumes

Ps I even took the keyboard / mice out of the equation!

 

[arad85]

You set the rules when you made it a fact that you can

My rule was equivalent processing, not the same. I can build something which processes images quicker and has more display space (I'd use 2 24" monitors) for around half the price. It won't be the same spec., and may not have features you keep saying must be included (I wouldn't spec Thunderbolt or Wifi or a 680 for example) but it would be quicker - and silent (save HDD mechanical noise) but then you'd just tell me it was missing some feature so it wasn't equivalent so it's a pretty pointless exercise.

The point is you can build pretty much the same for a good chunk less (you say 25%, I'd say more, but I'm not going to argue), you can build something just as fast and significantly better value for a lot less.

 

[Raymond Lin]

First there was "no keyboard or mouse", then it is "I wouldn't use the same monitor" and then "don't need the same graphic card". Lol, talk about moving the goal posts ! It's not the same spec anymore, not even close.

It is not about whether you need the processing power of the graphic card or the 27" monitor, the point of the exercise of building a machine that is equivalent to one that you can get from Apple.

Of course you can build the same "processing" power computer for that when you cut off about £800 of components from what Apple offers. It is one thing building the same computer but cheaper albeit a bit ugly and louder and takes up more space, but building a cheaper one with cheaper components, worst monitor, less powerful graphic card with less features all round is not really a point worth shouting about is it?

 

[arad85]

First there was "no keyboard or mouse", then it is "I wouldn't use the same monitor" and then "don't need the same graphic card". Lol, talk about moving the goal posts ! It's not the same spec anymore, not even close.

This depends how you define spec. Is the spec. the hardware spec. or the performance spec.? I.e. do you define the machine spec. as "I want to be able to process RAW files from a D800 in a reasonable amount of time on a quality screen" or is it "I want a 27" 2560x1440 display and an i7-3770 processor"? Most people only care about the first, but if you care about the second, then just you might as well go and buy an iMac as you'll probably even find a reason the lack of DVD drive is an advantage....

By building a cheaper one with cheaper components is not really a point worth shouting about is it?

Actually, the underlying components would be the same (or probably better - I'd probably use a better PSU than Apple for example). There is only one company you can get ix processors from for example (and I'd probably spec. the ix-3x70K and overclock it as that's pretty easy on the latest processors and is either cheaper than the non-K part [i5] or a £20 adder for the i7). I just wouldn't be charging an arm and a leg for them (for example the i7-3770 is a £160 upgrade option from Apple, the difference in price between it and an i5-3570 (which is in the base spec 3.2GHz iMac) is £53 retail).

Fundamentally, I'd be more rational about where I was allocating my money than Apple seem to (but then I don't have any need to market my products like Apple do or have my fanboys willy wave for me ).

 

[Raymond Lin]

Hence the challenge, even with Apple's own inflated prices (3x in the instance of the i5 to i7) then this should be easy to get something 50% instead of 33%.

The fact that people can only manage 75% shows the gap is not as wide as claimed.

 

[arad85]

The fact that people can only manage 75% shows the gap is not as wide as claimed.

No. It shows that Apple buy in bulk and have access to significantly lower prices than you or I have and still charge a lot. What is amazing is that even though Apple have a huge advantage in prices, you can still build pretty much the same for 75% and you can build better, just with different priorities for significantly less (let's call that 50%).

Where is the rest of the money going?

• having flagship stores in high-value real estate (Apple Covent Garden anyone)
• Employing direct salespeople
• Profit

If you believe that to be good value for your money, you should continue to support Apple directly.

 

[JonathanRyan]

This started out as an interesting thread.

Like many, it ended up in "how dare companies charge money for stuff?".

Pay it. Don't pay it. But don't criticise companies for wanting to make a profit.

 

[arad85]

Pay it. Don't pay it. But don't criticise companies for wanting to make a profit.

I'm not.

I'm criticising people for paying so much for so little real value.

But that's just my opinion

 

[Flashman]

I'm criticising people for paying so much for so little real value.

Value? The last Windows PC I bought was a Dell XPS about four years ago. It developed a serious fault within a couple of days. Dell weren't interested in fixing or replacing it, I spent several hours over several days on the phone to useless 'support' in India. In the end I gave up and dumped it after just one month... THAT'S bad value!

I replaced it with my first Mac, a Mac Pro which was a dream to live with and trouble free for nearly four years... Irrespective of the purchase price, that's very good value to me.

 

[neil_g]

Value? The last Windows PC I bought was a Dell XPS about four years ago. It developed a serious fault within a couple of days. Dell weren't interested in fixing or replacing it, I spent several hours over several days on the phone to useless 'support' in India. In the end I gave up and dumped it after just one month... THAT'S bad value!

I replaced it with my first Mac, a Mac Pro which was a dream to live with and trouble free for nearly four years... Irrespective of the purchase price, that's very good value to me.

you may have just gotten a lemon, like your mac we have large piles of old Dell kit that is still alive and kicking after 7-8 years but the spec for our current applications isnt sufficient. we've had macbooks that have had issues out of the box that apple refused to acknowledge so dont think its just dell with the horror stories

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'm not.

I'm criticising people for paying so much for so little real value.

But that's just my opinion

It has more value than your:

1 - bigger foot print
2 - not as silent
3 - not as good monitor
4 - not as good graphic card
5 - no wifi
6 - no thunderbolt
7 - no speakers
8 - Time spent in research/reading/compare and build. Time spent could be used making money.

Yes, it cost more, but to say "so little value" is misleading at least, total lie in truth. It as as much value as the market dictate.

I hate comparing it to cars but it is like comparing the difference of getting an Aston Martin or buying Westfield. They are both quick but one doesn't even have a roof, leather or even an airbag. The choice is down to the buyer whether he wants to cut those corners and save money but you can't say an Aston Martin has little value.

Try selling your 4 years old PC and then compare to selling a 4 years old iMac. You can then see the REAL value in actual pounds.

I don't want to get into the whole "who is more reliable" debate as that is totally user experience dependant but topic at hand. No one has able to spec the same machine as Apple offered close to the 50% mark claimed. It's not even close. Andy claimed he can but leaving out a £400 graphic card and a £370 monitor...I would be laughing if I didn't think he was being serious.

 

[arad85]

Value? The last Windows PC I bought was a Dell XPS about four years ago. It developed a serious fault within a couple of days. Dell weren't interested in fixing or replacing it, I spent several hours over several days on the phone to useless 'support' in India. In the end I gave up and dumped it after just one month... THAT'S bad value!

Yup. That's bad value, but one that should have cost you nothing (if it isn't fit for purpose, it should be refunded - if it wasn't, I'd have got Trading Standards involved).

On the other hand, I've been perfectly happy with my Dell XPS experience - and it is as good as the equivalent 2011 MBPs of the day - for about half the price and would be happy to recommend them to others - despite your experience.

I replaced it with my first Mac, a Mac Pro which was a dream to live with and trouble free for nearly four years... Irrespective of the purchase price, that's very good value to me.

I still haven't had to replace any PC I've built or bought over the years, from a variety of manufacturers, or built myself. The only time they get replaced is when something better comes out (and some have been reused as fileservers/media PCs). The only problems I've had over the years have been under-spec'd power supplies (my own fault - I over spec these now) and HDDs (I think I had 15 or so in operation here at last count - so I must see failure averages kick in at some time). So, you have to ask yourself, was the fact you got 4 years great life with your Mac Pro down to the fact that you paid more for it or simply the luck of the draw?

Also, before anyone says Apple servicing is great, my feeling from watching threads on here for the past few years on Apple servicing they seem to fall into the following categories (yes, I know someone will have a story of the last category where Apple staff went ABCD):

• I have Applecare and I had a problem with <insert component here> and it was replaced - often with a more modern spec machine as it was too costly to repair.
• I didn't have Applecare but I was just outside my warranty, and Apple replaced FoC.
• I didn't have Applecare and I was way outside my warranty and something failed. The cost to replace was prohibitive - so I just bought a new machine

And that's just as it should be. Except if you had a PC, option 3 wouldn't ever happen simply because PCs are modular and bits can generally be replaced easily and cheaply. And if you look at Dells version of Applecare (whatever it is called) I'm sure you would get just as good a service (or so Neil tells us).

Personally, I take the rough with the smooth, I never buy any after care on any product I have preferring to take the risk myself. But that's just the way I am....

 

[arad85]

It has more value than your:

1 - bigger foot print

Only if you value footprint. I don't particularly. So?

2 - not as silent

I would spec. a completely silent (i.e. NO fans at all PC).

3 - not as good monitor

I'd have 2 monitors instead of 1. I don't want a single 27" monitor. It is too restrictive.

4 - not as good graphic card

Well... I would never spec. that graphics card for anything I built as it is overkill.

5 - no wifi
6 - no thunderbolt

No. No need for them. I'd rather put the money into better infrastructure.

7 - no speakers

Oooh.... I have some £3 ones here... do they count?

8 - Time spent in research/reading/compare and build. Time spent could be used making money.

And the money saved could be saved... So?

Yes, it cost more, but to say "so little value" is misleading at least, total lie in truth. It as as much value as the market dictate.

Yup. It's down to what people will pay.

Try selling your 4 years old PC and then compare to selling a 4 years old iMac. You can then see the REAL value in actual pounds.

Sell an old PC? Why would you do that? It's more infrastructure - and since it doesn't incorporate a 27" screen, I can actually place it where I want it.

Actually, I did sell a 2 year old laptop once. I got 45% of the purchase price. Given it was only £430 to start with, I didn't think it too bad.

I don't want to get into the whole "who is more reliable" debate as that is totally user experience dependant but topic at hand. No one has able to spec the same machine as Apple offered close to the 50% mark claimed. It's not even close. Andy claimed he can but leaving out a £400 graphic card and a £370 monitor...I would be laughing if I didn't think he was being serious.

Well... the graphic card isn't £400 as it's the M processor which has half the memory bandwidth of it's desktop cousin. You can't actually buy a card based on the 680M processor - so I couldn't even if I wanted to. And my spec on the original post somewhere included a £550 Dell U2711 and I was still 33% cheaper than the base iMac.... But don't let that deter you from saying I didn't include it...

 

[arad85]

PS. It isn't clear what speed the 680M is clocked at in the iMac. Just like processors, they can be underclocked and I would guess are on the iMac to reduce heat dissipation. A 680M is rated at 100W TDP so that's an awful lot of heat to shift if it is running flat out - especially shifting it quietly.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Andy, you are missing the point.

The point is not whether you CHOOSE, the point you and another claimed they CAN, for a FACT that they can spec the same machine for significantly less, even 50%. It's not your choice to choose 2 smaller monitors or whether you want to spec a graphic card with that much processing power.

If you don't spec the same machine they don't claim you can. Specing different machine with different monitors, different parts with less features at a different price point proves what exactly? Really?

Nothing.

 

[Raymond Lin]

And my spec on the original post somewhere included a £550 Dell U2711 and I was still 33% cheaper than the base iMac.... But don't let that deter you from saying I didn't include it...

I did a search and no, all I see is you refusing to spec anything and a lot of winking smilies, which btw doesn't distract from the fact that you have not spec anything which you claimed for a fact that you can.

I can do it, I just CBA

You've got a long wait from me - your "rules" make it impossible

 

[JonathanRyan]

Seriously - does nobody have any work to do?

 

[arad85]

Seriously - does nobody have any work to do?

No.

Next question.

 

[arad85]

I did a search and no, all I see is you refusing to spec anything and a lot of winking smilies, which btw doesn't distract from the fact that you have not spec anything which you claimed for a fact that you can.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5221660#post5221660

£491 for the parts (OK, not silent) and £550 for the monitor.

 

[scott199]

Seriously - does nobody have any work to do?

I do.

 

[King Damager]

Seriously - does nobody have any work to do?

Nope and it is fun to play

I'm actually agreeing with Raymond here.

I don't have an iMac, nor do I suspect I ever will... Although, w8 might make that more interesting.

I don't like OSX, so that's that really.

Apple do charge a reasonable mark up on their products, but it's no more than any other company. HP desktops I know you can spec for about 66% of their retail price.

Apple actually have an advantage in that they're the only manufacturer creating computers that can legally run all OS'. This tends to make them popular with coders.

The real thing that is missing from this argument, is not that I could build the same PC for less, but that you could build a better PC for the same amount.

That said, as I said last time, with apple you're buying into the OS, the Eco system and how it all works. They're not charging a premium compared to any other high end pre-build really. I really don't understand what the issue is with buying a mac... Or any apple product...

kd

 

[arad85]

That said, as I said last time, with apple you're buying into the OS, the Eco system and how it all works. They're not charging a premium compared to any other high end pre-build really.

No, this is very true, it's just you don't see people buying the high-end Windows pre-builds - that's more a corporate thing.

I really don't understand what the issue is with buying a mac... Or any apple product...

The problem isn't buying a Mac, the problem is believing it is somehow superior to other products. It isn't and OSX is downright backward in places if you want to interface it to anything non-Apple. BTW: I have the same dislike with Linux as a desktop for exactly the same reason (although that is at least sensible when it comes to networking and sharing).

That and purchasing one seems to turn some people into religious zealots overnight. As an atheist, I will stand and argue for fun with Jehovahs Witnesses who come round to my door if I'm in the mood... Pointing out the errors of religious ways is just in my nature

 

[King Damager]

No, this is very true, it's just you don't see people buying the high-end Windows pre-builds - that's more a corporate thing.

The problem isn't buying a Mac, the problem is believing it is somehow superior to other products. It isn't and OSX is downright backward in places if you want to interface it to anything non-Apple. BTW: I have the same dislike with Linux as a desktop for exactly the same reason (although that is at least sensible when it comes to networking and sharing).

That and purchasing one seems to turn some people into religious zealots overnight. As an atheist, I will stand and argue for fun with Jehovahs Witnesses who come round to my door if I'm in the mood... Pointing out the errors of religious ways is just in my nature

It can be superior for people's needs. Linux has its benefits too, just on a photography forum, very few would need them, nor want its lack of support.

I've never had any issues with connecting iPods/pads etc... To most stuff. That said, I'll concede I have little experience with the desktop side of things.

As for the the religious zealots, it's the same with any fanboyism, it's just some get pulled up on it more. GPUs is dire, as were CPUs (nowhere near as much since bulldozer). PC vs Console, android has some of the worst fanboys for attacking people with iPhones and then claiming that they're the fanboys (I currently have an android phone). As for atheists, being generally agnostic myself,I have just as much issues with someone trying to argue for atheism as I do for Jehovah's witnesses in some cases. People need to realise that in many cases, someone's opinion is their own, and as with cameras, different things have different pros and cons.

As a side point,that £500 PC you just linked doesn't come close to Raymond's mac performance wise.

Even putting GPU aside, it's missing the i7, RAM and SSD, all of which make massive differences for PP speed.

kd

 

[arad85]

It can be superior for people's needs. Linux has its benefits too, just on a photography forum, very few would need them, nor want its lack of support.

I run more Linux systems here than Windows

I've never had any issues with connecting iPods/pads etc... To most stuff. That said, I'll concede I have little experience with the desktop side of things.

Try browsing a Windows network from a stock iPad.....

As for the the religious zealots, it's the same with any fanboyism, it's just some get pulled up on it more. GPUs is dire, as were CPUs (nowhere near as much since bulldozer). PC vs Console, android has some of the worst fanboys for attacking people with iPhones and then claiming that they're the fanboys (I currently have an android phone). As for atheists, being generally agnostic myself,I have just as much issues with someone trying to argue for atheism as I do for Jehovah's witnesses in some cases. People need to realise that in many cases, someone's opinion is their own, and as with cameras, different things have different pros and cons.

But don't you see... I'm right

As a side point,that £500 PC you just linked doesn't come close to Raymond's mac performance wise.

Even putting GPU aside, it's missing the i7, RAM and SSD, all of which make massive differences for PP speed.

If you read the OP, that was against the £1500 iMac which is the same spec as the parts linked. Add £70 for a 128G SSD, another £50 for i7 (if you think it's worth it, I'd prefer an overclocked i5 - there really isn't much in it for most apps - even video encoding it's only 10% clock for clock) and another £130 for silent PSU and heatsink and you're shy of £1300. The equivalent 8G iMac with i7, 1TB fusion and 680MX and it came to £2179. Even with a £400 graphics card (actually, it's £350), the self build with top quality components would come in at ~£1500 which is a good £600 cheaper...

 

[minibloke]

But they're so shiny