New Apple or Upgrade PC, Advice needed please.

What should i do

  • option 1

    Votes: 13 76.5%

  • option 2

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • Total voters
    17
scott199

scott199

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Hi all.

Sorry beforehand for this essay, just feel the more you know the better advice you can give.

I know another apple V PC thread, but its not that simple, i hope.

My problem:

I'm fairly savvy with the spec side of things, no computer engineer by all means, so the background.

In 2005 i bought my first proper pc (something other than £399 from pc world) i went for an Alienware top spec (at the time) Core due, watercooled, 4 250g drives running raid 0 (i think) and so on, Tower was £1700, and that was such a fantastic piece of kit, nothing slowed it or even made it burp.

So fast forward to last year, the drives died :( and cost me a fortune to recover the data, so at the time, i thought may as well pay the extra and get it rebuilt to my specs, Thought about another alienware, but friends have got them and since they were taken over i felt the build and performance had dropped.

August 2010, i had this built, So i now have a pc with I5 2.6/8 9not sure) sandybridge clocked to 3.2, gigabyte mother board, 16gig of 1800mhz ddr3 RAM, 120 g SSD running op system, 2 x 1tb drive's for everything else, also mirrored for back-up safety, it is a great machine boots in just under 14 seconds, again nothing really causes it any problems, not even rendering DVD's

Now my problem, i need a new screen or 2, really want duel screen, high end graphics card to run them, so i went into PC world yesterday to look into option and got cornered by the apple salesman, now i have always said overpriced Statement, so people can say them have one.

Anyway, 2 x screens £500 (dell 2412 ips), Graphics card £150, Calibrating bits £150 ? so say £850 ish.

The wife was playing on the ipad (again we have tabs and other bits, none being apple) so the apple man got me for 10 or so minutes, and really annoyed me as i was quite taken by the way they work and the os seems to be nice and simple to me (seems to work the same way as my brain :P. Love the way you can multiple desktops open and just switch so quickly, always hated the way windows has all the little screens layered ontop of each other, the whole system just seems more intuitive.

So here we go, not knowing anything about MACs except what i seen yesterday.

1. Do i upgrade my PC ??

2. Or just step over to apple, still would like duel screen, if poss ?

3. if so do i go imac or macbook, (not buying into that £1600 retina thing)

Also need to say the pc, if not updated wont get wasted as my 15 year old son will use it for school

Money wise it isn't really a problem, but Value for money is :)

need real help here, :help::help:

thanks for taking the hour os so to read all this :cuckoo:
 
The problem with Apple is this, says the man just bought a top spec iMac....

1 - to get a good graphic card you need to get an iMac, not Mac Mini. Which brings us to the next problem.

2 - iMac, 21" ones are not upgrade friendly, not even RAM so I would suggest you get the 27" and get RAM from Crucial and upgrade it yourself.

3 - Dual screen, you can via Thunderbolt but you will need a big desk as I would want a same size screen next to it.

If you have a PC then it will obviously be cheaper as my iMac (3.4Ghz, 1TB Fusion, GT680MX with my own 32G RAM with Superdrive) came to around £2200 with HE discount.

What you get is a silent machine, nice OS, good integration with their hardware/software, EXCELLENT customer support and don't take up much space. That screen is my computer.

OHnd3.jpg


p.s. new iMac need no calibration, each one is calibrated by Apple themselves, read a few user reviews so far online have confirmed that they've tested it and the difference is negligible if any so they even uninstalled their calibrated apps.
 
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I don't really understand the question....I don't see how buying a new computer can cost anything like the same as adding a second screen to an existing computer (I also don't really understand what you were doing in PCW since you seem to know a lot about computers..... ;) ).

Some points that may or may not help:

I'm a long term Apple user and big fan of their OS. I've bought 4 computers plus iPad and a couple of iPhones (plus iPods etc) off them. Unless they do something radical soon it's unlikely I'll buy another of their computers. Right now their pro range is tired. The iMac range is great IF you are happy with it - start adding stuff and you end up with a franken-machine which then becomes VERY expensive to replace (since you have to buy a new screen each time). The laptops are great LAPTOPS. Personally I wouldn't use one for an all day edit machine unless I was somewhere that meant I had to (I've edited on location before now).

AFAIK all non-laptop Macs support dual screens out of the box. It's very very simple - plug in another screen. Colours generally work pretty well too. Laptops can also generally run a 2nd screen (but not often 2 externals) - I've used my MBP with a 40 inch TV and it wasn't as easy as it should be but it was nice.

Really, I'd upgrade your PC. Somebody who knew about these things could tell you which graphics cards support dual screens (lots of them)

BTW your PC spec looks awfully similar to the machine I'm writing this on. Quad core i5, Gigabyte board, SSD boot and spinning metal storage, dual Dell U2312HM IPS panels. It just happens to run OS X :cool:
 
JonathanRyan said:
The iMac range is great IF you are happy with it - start adding stuff and you end up with a franken-machine which then becomes VERY expensive to replace (since you have to buy a new screen each time).
Click to expand...

This is the one thing I don't like, but the Mac Mini only has Intel graphic so that is no go.

In a few years I hope it will have better graphic then I will go Mac Mini and get dual screen and only have to upgrade the machine and keeping my monitors.

Right now, for the next 3/4 years this new iMac should do.
 
Sounds like you have your current pc fairly well set up with SSD and good backups etc. I would expect a current £100 graphics card to be more than adequate, unless you want to get into multi screen gaming. Dell monitors are claimed to be factory calibrated too, though most people do still calibrate themselves. There is a new 29" Dell which is something like 2580 x 1080 so nearly the same as 2 monitors side by side, although the one you mention is at least 16:10 so more depth than iMac screens. I would go with the pc option but make sure your power supply is suitable for whichever graphics card you get.
 
you dont need a £150 graphics card to run twin displays. on that basis, and the fact your existing PC is probably the best spec youll need.. option 1.

(edit - what graphics do you have in it at the moment?)

also look at refurbed screens, seller "nrg_it" on ebay. complete with warranty.

also mirroring is not a backup.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
p.s. new iMac need no calibration, each one is calibrated by Apple themselves, read a few user reviews so far online have confirmed that they've tested it and the difference is negligible if any so they even uninstalled their calibrated apps.
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thats daft, the screen will need calibrating at some point in the future irrespective of whether it was factory calibrated.

top end (not apple) panels will still need calibrating regularly.
 
neil_g said:
thats daft, the screen will need calibrating at some point in the future irrespective of whether it was factory calibrated.

top end (not apple) panels will still need calibrating regularly.
Click to expand...

Say that to the people who did what I said.
 
imagine said:
Dell monitors are claimed to be factory calibrated too, though most people do still calibrate themselves.
Click to expand...

All screens are factory calibrated - just not for pictures. The Dells I use looked awful until I calibrated them. But were entirely adequate for word processing.

Do bear in mind that they will need calibrating to the source. So in a closed system like an iMac it is possible to make a screen that is "correct" out of the box. Since Dell don't know what I'm going to plug the screen into it's not.

Also, screens drift.....

imagine said:
Dell monitors are claimed to be factory calibrated too, though most people do still calibrate themselves. There is a new 29" Dell which is something like 2580 x 1080 so nearly the same as 2 monitors side by side
Click to expand...

Still 50% less than two 23 inch then ;) Also, dual screens work differently from a single large one.
 
Unless you're gaming, you don't need to spend anything like £150 on a graphics card. Even onboard intel graphics on the latest IvyBridge processors will be enough for dual displays. Personally, I'd be looking at a passive graphics card with twin digital outputs into a couple of Dell 2410s.

All screens will need calibrating over time as they drift. What you are seeing at the moment is that the Apple calibrated displays have not had time to drift as they are only just out of the box. Give them 6 months and then see if they need to be tweaked ;)
 
JonathanRyan said:
I don't really understand the question....I don't see how buying a new computer can cost anything like the same as adding a second screen to an existing computer (I also don't really understand what you were doing in PCW since you seem to know a lot about computers..... ;) ).

AFAIK all non-laptop Macs support dual screens out of the box. It's very very simple - plug in another screen. Colours generally work pretty well too. Laptops can also generally run a 2nd screen (but not often 2 externals) - I've used my MBP with a 40 inch TV and it wasn't as easy as it should be but it was nice.

Really, I'd upgrade your PC. Somebody who knew about these things could tell you which graphics cards support dual screens (lots of them)

BTW your PC spec looks awfully similar to the machine I'm writing this on. Quad core i5, Gigabyte board, SSD boot and spinning metal storage, dual Dell U2312HM IPS panels. It just happens to run OS X :cool:
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the help, as to above, i haven't been to work for nearly a week now, boredom sends you to silly places :thinking: Prob why im thinking of going to apple :woot:

Also i know it will not cost the same, but is getting rather close to new stuff, so new clean build, warranty, back-up and so on.

arad85 said:
Unless you're gaming, you don't need to spend anything like £150 on a graphics card. Even onboard intel graphics on the latest IvyBridge processors will be enough for dual displays. Personally, I'd be looking at a passive graphics card with twin digital outputs into a couple of Dell 2410s.
Click to expand...

Cheers, does make sense.

gnirtS said:
If you know what you're doing with a PC build you can get an equivalent spec for about 50% the price of apple so really is no contest.

i7, 16gb ram, primary SSD, dual head video card, decent monitor(s). Perfect.
Click to expand...

I do know a little, and one thing (not what you said) but it do find it funny.

People say if you have an i5 with 16g RAM and ssd and so on then they must run the same, my old alienware would still out perform anything upto the i3, with a core due

It's kind of like saying my ford 2ltr with electric windows and air con, will drive and be as fast as a bmw 2lt, with the same spec.

You can have 5 company's build that same machine, same specs and their will be one stand out performer.

Ok i understand what everyone is saying, i did think it would be hard to explain, its more so, if i spend £500/600/700 on my PC, yes it will do the job, but will it do it in the same way a new iMac would ???

Also i have to take into account the warranty back up, support i wouldn't have with mine (not that ive ever needed it, but sods law and all that).

Thats the bit thats got me confused, wish i never set foot on that place :shrug:

Edit:

On a side note, for all the peeps that have 8 + gig of ram, do you ever use it ? Just i noticed quite some time ago that the 16g i got is a bit pointless as i never really use above 25% of that 16g.

Im starting to think 6-8 will be plenty, any idea's on this ? (i've never really worked with pics or graphics, so dont really know what to expect.)
 
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I have 8G ram in my old iMac and I tell you that the machine when loaded up LR it has a huge page file. Thus I have 32gig now, I mean it is "only" £110, why skim? I know the machine is maxed out and I don't ever have to worry about if I have enough ram over the life of the machine.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I have 8G ram in my old iMac and I tell you that the machine when loaded up LR it has a huge page file. Thus I have 32gig now, I mean it is "only" £110, why skim? I know the machine is maxed out and I don't ever have to worry about if I have enough ram over the life of the machine.
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Thanks, was just wondering
 
Have you considered how much it may cost to repurchase the software you require if you move to Apple?
 
imagine said:
Have you considered how much it may cost to repurchase the software you require if you move to Apple?
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Umm no. : (

Just from the top of my head, lr4 which I'm still on trail, so thats OK.

I suppose just office 2010 would be the main.

Oh on that note, how easy is it to run windows as a second os ?

That really does put another head ache to put into the mix.
 
scott199 said:
Umm no. : (

Just from the top of my head, lr4 which I'm still on trail, so thats OK.

I suppose just office 2010 would be the main.

Oh on that note, how easy is it to run windows as a second os ?

That really does put another head ache to put into the mix.
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Dead easy - either virtual PC on Virtual box (free) or via boot camp on bare metal. I can't see why you would want to run win though...

Even the basic mac mini will happily run your 2 monitors. I am not sure why 2412 dell, as they are basic 6 bit panels. Go for 2713 or 2413 8/10 bit models.
 
daugirdas said:
I can't see why you would want to run win though...
Click to expand...

Just the fact, some programs I know very well, and use for work, its not the end of the world as I have a good laptop that I could use, if needed. Just was wondering how simple it was.
 
daugirdas said:
Dead easy - either virtual PC on Virtual box (free) or via boot camp on bare metal. I can't see why you would want to run win though...
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Exactly. I use VMWare and XP (yeah, shoot me...) for a couple of programs that don't have OS X equivalents.

But most new OS X adopters plan to do this and then don't.

If price isn't a problem
Check out the mac pro's very upgradable
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Well, yes and no.

Try fitting a new graphics card if for any reason you don't want to use one of the tiny number Apple approve. I have a Mac Pro on an obsolete card but there are literally no upgrades.

Or if you want to use fast cheap i/o. USB 3 isn't officially supported (I know you can add 3rd party cards but that kind of breaks the closed system thing). And unbelievably neither is Thunderbolt.

All the signs are that Apple are bored of pro users and want to sell glossy screens to people so they can view Facebook.
 
JonathanRyan said:
All the signs are that Apple are bored of pro users and want to sell glossy screens to people so they can view Facebook.
Click to expand...

Would that explain why PC world have a dedicated apple section now and a full time apple salesman.

I did wonder, as I have never seen that before for apple.

Is that apple trying to go main stream. ?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Well, yes and no.

Try fitting a new graphics card if for any reason you don't want to use one of the tiny number Apple approve. I have a Mac Pro on an obsolete card but there are literally no upgrades.

Or if you want to use fast cheap i/o. USB 3 isn't officially supported (I know you can add 3rd party cards but that kind of breaks the closed system thing). And unbelievably neither is Thunderbolt.

All the signs are that Apple are bored of pro users and want to sell glossy screens to people so they can view Facebook.
Click to expand...

pretty much what i was going to say on pros. they are ridiculously out of date at the moment, will be interesting to see what they do when they get refreshed.

we dont bother with the towers now unless its a freelancer hot desk, most of our designers prefer a macbook and screen.
 
scott199 said:
On a side note, for all the peeps that have 8 + gig of ram, do you ever use it ? Just i noticed quite some time ago that the 16g i got is a bit pointless as i never really use above 25% of that 16g.

Im starting to think 6-8 will be plenty, any idea's on this ? (i've never really worked with pics or graphics, so dont really know what to expect.)
Click to expand...


yep - it avoids the slowdowns associated with scratch disks in photoshop. 24 gb makes a massive difference on my machine to how CS5 runs.
 
So in basic, if I do go apple, you would advise go IMAC desktop. ?

Rather than macbook pro. ?
 
neil_g said:
the mac pro and macbook pro are 2 different things. one is a tower the other a laptop :)
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Funny - but my local approved retailer didn't know that. I asked if Apple still did MacPros and they showed me a laptop. I left....

BTW 32 GB in mine. Memory is really cheap and it takes a load off other things. Pretty much nothing gets swapped out ;)
 
JonathanRyan said:
Funny - but my local approved retailer didn't know that. I asked if Apple still did MacPros and they showed me a laptop. I left....

BTW 32 GB in mine. Memory is really cheap and it takes a load off other things. Pretty much nothing gets swapped out ;)
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Ah thanks. Thats my confusion then.

The problem is, everyone is saying adding RAM to the new machines is really difficult, so prob not that cheap if apple install is it. ?

Can it be done on the new IMAC things. ?
 
scott199 said:
The problem is, everyone is saying adding RAM to the new machines is really difficult, so prob not that cheap if apple install is it. ?
Click to expand...

To be clear, I recently replaced my MacPro with a homebrew PC running OS X......
 
neil_g said:
which we wouldnt be able to discuss here ;)
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Oh yeah. I mean I heard of people doing this. Using a fully licensed OS and everything. And of course Apple are absolutely right in saying they mustn't use software that they have legally paid for any way they want.

Nothing to see here.... :nono:
 
JonathanRyan said:
Oh yeah. I mean I heard of people doing this. Using a fully licensed OS and everything. And of course Apple are absolutely right in saying they mustn't use software that they have legally paid for any way they want.

Nothing to see here.... :nono:
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Funny I heard the same rumor.

Now that would solve most of my problems. : )

Maybe a pm
 
To be honest if you want information about Apple products I'd go to either an Apple store or one of their Authorised resellers such as Stormfront or Western computers.

Looking at the computer you already have , I can't see what significant improvement switching to Apple products will give you over what you have already. And this is from a dedicated Apple user !!!

If you are unsure, go to a Apple shop or Authorised reseller and spend a little time there. That way you will see if the outlay on a Mac system is worthwhile or simply purchasing a second monitor will suffice. I would however include a back up hard drive . This has saved my bacon several times.

If it's any help I ran a MBP and an external monitor for about a year and it worked fine. I did however opt for an iMac as it made things a lot easier
 
Neither my local (2 miles) Stormfront nor localish (45 miles) Apple store have any Mac Pros in them.

Kind of says it all really.
 
neil_g said:
to be fair theyll only stock what has more chance of selling. mac pros are fairly niche :)
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Used to be their core business. Now it's niche......

But what's the point of going to an Apple store if they don't have any of their powerful machines there?
 
With the promised upgrade of the MacPro in the spring of 2013, nobody is going to buy a machine which is effectively 4 years old ( OK they had a minor processor tweak recently but that wasn't a huge event).

Plus the Mac Pro is as you say a fairly niche product anyway
 
With that machine already I'd say just buy the new screens. As others said, you won't need to spend that much on a graphics card unless you plan to play games on it and everything else you have is fine.
 
gnirtS said:
If you know what you're doing with a PC build you can get an equivalent spec for about 50% the price of apple so really is no contest.

i7, 16gb ram, primary SSD, dual head video card, decent monitor(s). Perfect.
Click to expand...

Bored today and did a quick sum in my head but tell me I am wrong but people say they can build the same spec for half the price?

J2VMh.png


27" IPS screen with 2550x1440 res
Intel i7 3.4Ghz
32Gb DDR3 1600 mhz Ram
nVidia GTX 680 2G
Apple Superdrive
Apple wireless keyboard and mouse

My iMac came to £1982.60. I would be amazed if someone can build something to the same spec, fully functioning machine, delivered to my door all set up for under £1k.

Add in a

PSU
Motherboard
cables

Make a machine that is small, compact, silent, with OS, and I HAVE TO have the Apple keyboard and mouse (my argument is that it is my way to interact with the machine so it is paramount, plus, if Apple can include it, it won't be fair if you use a £5 knock off that is built like fisher price plastic)

RDoVt.png


Do your best, you have a budget of £991.30.

i7/GTX 680/8G ram/1TB Fusion (or 128G SSD with 1TB 7200rpm HD).

(I added the RAM myself so for this exercise, 8G ram machine would do)

Go!
 
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