New 5D MK3 revealed

joescrivens said:
if kerso is selling at £2600 then I will very likely buy from him at that price. £100 more than what I think it is worth is worth paying to have it early
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You would obviously have to check but "in the region of £2600" were his words on his FB page,
 
Galaxy66 said:
Kerso has already indicated his price will be in the region of £2600 so getting close already to the £2500 figure some believe is the true value.
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ooooh temting to go back to Canon....not :) ( I do like high ISO at Canon)
Just seen sample shots from D800 at high ISO and that put my mind at ease. no need to go back to Canon :)

Am thinking about D800e
 
joescrivens said:
thats not how people look at it. It's about what it is worth not what they can afford. Like I said before, I can afford the camera but I don't think it is worht £3000. I think it is worth £2500.

I'm not going to pay something over what I think it is worth, especially when I know that in time the price will come down.

I'd hate to pay £3000 for it today knowing that in 6 to 12 months it's going to cost £500 less and settle there.
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Ditto! I actually want 2 if i'm honest, so £500 becomes a grand!

Why waste that when in months the price will be down where it should be (and certainly not 12 months as once the 'i must upgrade now and be one of the first' brigade have stopped buying then sales will simply stop until it does come down).
 
joescrivens said:
i not sure I follow you.

How will this camera get you more business? Or is it that you will increase your prices because you will be able to take better shots due to the focus and better noise handling?
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It doesn't get me more business, not directly, but I would love to shoot a season of work with it rather than missing out. That work, and it's improvements will hopefully in turn bring in more clients. I would be lying if I say the current 5Dii doesn't miss shots, it does, so to minimise that aspect is practically priceless.
 
POAH said:
video is irrelavent to the numbers of people that shoot stills
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:plusone:

Got to agree...apart from the low noise at higher ISO settings, the other four reasons are of no relevance to stills.

What is relevant, is the Better AF and higher FPS
 
redhed17 said:
It is a great feature that I use occasionally when I'm wandering in and out of shady places on holiday. :)

Trouble is that Nikon have already taken that a step further with being able to set the lowest shutter as a reciprocal of the focal length before raising the ISO.
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Even my 550D does that on auto iso!
 
Raymond Lin said:
It doesn't get me more business, not directly, but I would love to shoot a season of work with it rather than missing out. That work, and it's improvements will hopefully in turn bring in more clients. I would be lying if I say the current 5Dii doesn't miss shots, it does, so to minimise that aspect is practically priceless.
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ok, so you aren't at your wedding shoot capacity then i guess.
 
gnirtS said:
Even my 550D does that on auto iso!
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are you sure?

I thought the 550d allowed you to stipulate a maximum ISO level - not allow you to tell the auto ISO to kick in when the shutter speed went below a certain level in Av mode
 
joescrivens said:
are you sure?

I thought the 550d allowed you to stipulate a maximum ISO level - not allow you to tell the auto ISO to kick in when the shutter speed went below a certain level in Av mode
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Limited settings wise in software but you can clearly see the SS adjusting upwards as you zoom in and reducing as you zoom out in auto ISO on Av mode and its not just changing image light levels. Its following very closely the reciprocal of my focal length on 3 different lenses here.
Basic but its clearly doing something similar albeit a bit coarse with no user control allowed (but we're talking a £400 body here).
 
gnirtS said:
Limited settings wise in software but you can clearly see the SS adjusting upwards as you zoom in and reducing as you zoom out in auto ISO on Av mode and its not just changing image light levels. Its following very closely the reciprocal of my focal length on 3 different lenses here.
Basic but its clearly doing something similar albeit a bit coarse with no user control allowed (but we're talking a £400 body here).
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what you describe isn't what we're talking about.

we're talking about the ability to set a minimum shutter speed that the camera will allow the exposure to go to. Let's say 1/200 and then the camera will allow the ISO to remain at say 400 until the shutter drops below this, at which point the ISO will start to increase to compensate.

Teh nikons mentioned above now lets you set a reciprical based on the focal length - so say instead of always changing the 1/200 based on what your zoom is you can tell it to never go below focal length x 2. That way as you zoom in and out that minimum shutter speed will increase or decrease based on your focal length before the auto ISO kicks in
 
gnirtS said:
Its following very closely the reciprocal of my focal length on 3 different lenses here.
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But the problem is that the reciprocal of focal length is actually too long a shutter speed for crop bodies. It should be 1/(focal length x crop factor). In my case, I like a bit more leeway than that, so if I were using the 24-105 I'd probably want to set 1/125th or 1/160th as minimum shutter speed in Av mode.

It's about the ability to customise the algorithm in use that matters. If anything persuades me to get a 5D3 it will probably be this ability to customise the algorithm used. In fact, what I'd like to see is something that said (in Av mode):

"Use shutter speed F1 x focal length, subject to a minimum F2 then raise ISO up to a maximum of F3 before reducing shutter speed to get correct exposure."

F1, F2 and F3 would be user settable.
 
joescrivens said:
ok, so you aren't at your wedding shoot capacity then i guess.
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I feel the camera can do more, for sure. I shoot single focus point (outer) and there are times when I placed the outer points on the subject (face) and it confirms focus and i fire and then when i check the screen it is way out of focus. It ends up focusing on the background. I have then missed a moment. This happens more often than I like and I would be lying if this doesn't annoy me.

I would expect my keep rate to go up with this new AF.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I'll eat my hat if you are right in your second paragraph. It's nice but it will never happen, it will eat away at profits from the 5Diii sales. Why would they do that?
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Canon has to compete with other manufacturers more than their own products. They don't always act like they understand this though. :thinking:

APS-C and smaller is getting dominated by mirrorless competition and the Sony SLT cameras. If Canon wants to keep selling EF lenses like they do today, I think they they need an entry-level FF camera.

I'm sure such a camera would be crippled on many fronts to protect the 5D3 and 1Dx. Especially on the video side it would probably have Rebel-level features, certainly no audio monitoring, live HDMI output, All-I and other advanced codecs, SMTPE timecodes etc etc. Like a 550D.

On the still side, drop the fps rate for sure (even down to 3 fps), cripple the viewfinder with a smaller prism and add an on-camera flash. Autofocus from whatever the Rebels or xxD get next, I don't think Canon can push the old 9pt forever... Add scene modes! :lol:

Of course my thinking might change completely when Canon pulls their mirrorless out.
 
I may of over looked this but can you micro adjust on the MK III?
 
arad85 said:
But the problem is that the reciprocal of focal length is actually too long a shutter speed for crop bodies. It should be 1/(focal length x crop factor). In my case, I like a bit more leeway than that, so if I were using the 24-105 I'd probably want to set 1/125th or 1/160th as minimum shutter speed in Av mode.

It's about the ability to customise the algorithm in use that matters. If anything persuades me to get a 5D3 it will probably be this ability to customise the algorithm used. In fact, what I'd like to see is something that said (in Av mode):

"Use shutter speed F1 x focal length, subject to a minimum F2 then raise ISO up to a maximum of F3 before reducing shutter speed to get correct exposure."

F1, F2 and F3 would be user settable.
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The alternative view is that you've got auto-ISO, which is great, but then how far do you take the automation process without making it too compicated for it's own good? Cameras like this are supposed to be used by folks that know what they're doing!

An automated system that takes camera-shake into account (variable according to the individual and how the camera is being held/supported) also has to accommodate the crop factor as you say, and also IS on top, plus there is the issue of subject movement that is a completely separate question.

In other words, to cover everything you would need basic auto-ISO plus several other options within it to cover all scenarios. It's not so much a question of what is possible or what the camera could do, and more of where you draw the line. Just thinking about that from a personal point of view, I think I would just use the auto-ISO feature as Canon has implemented it, and make other adjustments manually on the hoof as and when, rather than fiddle about in the menus for another mode that does it for me.
 
Just found what I was looking for...

AF Microadjustment AF Menu
+/- 20 steps ( wide and tele setting for Zooms)
Adjust all lenses by same amount
Adjust up to 40 lenses individually
Adjustments remembered for lens by serial number
 
HoppyUK said:
The alternative view is that you've got auto-ISO, which is great, but then how far do you take the automation process without making it too compicated for it's own good? Cameras like this are supposed to be used by folks that know what they're doing!
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The problem with auto ISO is that if you want to set the shutter to a minimum AND control DoF, you're into manual which means - for the 5D2 - no auto ISO. Yes, 7D and later are getting better but they should have back ported this to the 5D2. Full auto ISO is a start but means you would still be messing with shutter speed in variable lighting conditions if your aperture/shutter speed combination means you're hitting lowest ISO.

I know what I'm doing, but I'd like the camera to help me do it!
 
Well I'm getting one for sure! As far as I'm concerned canon have given me exactly what I asked for. If cost is your main concern buy the mkII or wait till the price of the 3 comes down. If you need the better focus and better high ISo performance buy the mkIII. If it disappoints on a grand scale either change system or hold out and save for the next model as I did when the mkII was launched. Shimples. ; )
 
vaizki said:
It's not a replacement. It's a clear step up and Canon will still sell the 5D2 alongside (Canon statement). Naturally loads of people will upgrade, there's been a lot of waiting.

After the summer they will release a sub £2k FF camera (4fps and dumbed down AF) to replace the 5D2. But they need a new EF non-L kit lens for it as well, 3x zoom cheaper than the 24-105 but with IS. Maybe 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS II?
(my predictions)
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It is the replacement for the 5D2. 5D3? the clue is in the name my friend.

I think what may be misconstrued is that existing 5D2 stock will continue to sell alongside the 5D3, but I doubt if Canon will still manufacture 5D2's, therefor when stock of the 5D2 runs out, that's it, gone.
 
Anybody care to speculate on how wide the DR will be?
Not seen it quoted in any of the available information.

All the indications are it is going to be better than the 5DII.
But is it going to be a teeny tiny increase or an OMG increase? :)
 
Slight off topic, the Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 is pretty laudable by all accounts, is the Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L as good? (not the mammoth priced L II version).
 
Digifrog said:
Slight off topic, the Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 is pretty laudable by all accounts, is the Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L as good? (not the mammoth priced L II version).
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i don't know, never used the nikon, but I do know that the canon is 5 years older so not necessarily a fair comparison. Just like it wouldnt be fair to comapre the nikon with the new version 2 canon
 
Digifrog said:
It is the replacement for the 5D2. 5D3? the clue is in the name my friend.

I think what may be misconstrued is that existing 5D2 stock will continue to sell alongside the 5D3, but I doubt if Canon will still manufacture 5D2's, therefor when stock of the 5D2 runs out, that's it, gone.
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"Canon told us the $3500 5D Mark III isn't a replacement for the Mark II. The new camera will serve as a stepping stone between the Mark II and the low-light annihilating, $6800 Canon EOS-1 DX. The company also told us that they'll be announcing a new pricing schedule for the Mark II. Makes sense to us!"

That's from Gizmodo, saw it on other sites too but not easy to google from my phone.
 
vaizki said:
"Canon told us the $3500 5D Mark III isn't a replacement for the Mark II. The new camera will serve as a stepping stone between the Mark II and the low-light annihilating, $6800 Canon EOS-1 DX. The company also told us that they'll be announcing a new pricing schedule for the Mark II. Makes sense to us!"

That's from Gizmodo, saw it on other sites too but not easy to google from my phone.
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http://gizmodo.com/5889860/canon-will-keep-the-5d-mark-ii-alive-and-sell-it-cheaper
 
Raymond Lin said:
You take a FPS hit, down to like 3FPS i think.
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Yeah but I'd imagine it'd be worth any sacrifices for those moments when you really don't want to be conspicuous with shutter noise or aren't even supposed to be taking shots at all :D
 
vaizki said:
After the summer they will release a sub £2k FF camera (4fps and dumbed down AF) to replace the 5D2. But they need a new EF non-L kit lens for it as well, 3x zoom cheaper than the 24-105 but with IS. Maybe 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS II?
(my predictions)
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Is there really any point pairing a FF body with a non-L lens? Serious question - you go FF for the quality it provides, hence is seems a false economy to use a 'budget' lens with it.

I could downgrade some of my glass to help fund an upgrade to a 5D3 but will I? Not a chance. Glass before body, every time.
 
Some clarity on the alleged overly strong AA filter...

"Actually this is not true. It is the thinnest AA filter ever used by Canon. The results are a sharper picture than what nativley comes out of the camera on a 5D2. The test images I have seen by real photographer are very sharp. We have not seen raw files yet. Only jpegs. So they are internally sharpened. But results are still far better than what I am used to seeing on a 5D2 thanks to a thinner AA filter."
 
I had a play with at focus and I must admit it turned my head at what a fast focus system was like instead of the slowish 5dII. The outer points worked well and the jpegs I viewed at 25600 were like 3200 - 6400 on the 5dII.

Silent mode is very nice.

One more point, you knobs that take big zoom lenses to these shows ruin it for everyone else. Space is a premium anyway and you guys halve that space with your full kit on yer backs.

Get a life.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Is there really any point pairing a FF body with a non-L lens? Serious question - you go FF for the quality it provides, hence is seems a false economy to use a 'budget' lens with it.
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Canon just brought out new 24 and 28mm primes with IS that are not L. There's also nothing wrong with the 85/1.4 or 50/1.4 non-L primes or the old 70-300. Sure the zooms are narrow aperture but with the high ISO performance today they're perfectly usable.

I own quite a bit of L-glass and both full-frame cameras (5D and 1Ds) as well a 7D. And I agree that glass is the priority but while my 17-55 and 10-22 EF-S lenses can never have a red ring they're optically quite competent. Not weather sealed or top notch build quality but not cheap either.

A kit lens needs to be cheap because far too many people are looking at that entry price and Canon doesn't want to scare them away from full-frame completely. And nobody who asks me (family etc) believes me when I say you need 5k to build out a great FF system but they all spend it or complain about not having the money anyway...

Personally I haven't bought a kit combo after my first DSLR, a 400D. And most people here won't buy one if they already have L glass. But for Canons long term business they need new customers who buy into the EF system. And once you go full frame, you rarely go back.
 
I think if you have £3,000, or even £1,000 to drop on a body, you should be able to afford £1k+ lenses and would not no qualms of buying them. That's why one buy FF, they want the best IQ, they are not concerned about the "reach", so this buying a FF body pairing it with a cheap kit lens is a giant oxymoron.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Is there really any point pairing a FF body with a non-L lens? Serious question - you go FF for the quality it provides, hence is seems a false economy to use a 'budget' lens with it.
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I shot a portrait last week with a Sigma 15-30 on a 5DII. Publication standard shot with a £200, 10 year old lens.

Just because a lens doesn't have a red (or gold) ring, doesn't make it instantly useless.
 
well i mamaged to have a play with it a focus, i only have the 7D to compare...i liked the silent shutter, great for wedding services!....i'm moving into the market for a FF either mark ii or iii...price has to come down tho....at the minute i'm much more tempteed by a mark ii and some new glass!!!!
 
Well I'm not going to argue the point further, just an idea based on Canon saying the 5D2 is not getting replaced by the 5D3. Time will tell, and I'm set on getting a 5D3 anyway regardless of what Canon comes up with for a 5D2 replacement. I wouldn't be surprised to see U.S. prices of the 5D2 body being 1999 or even 1899 USD next week though.

Personally I've been shedding "lesser" glass and bodies and putting the money towards u4/3 lenses, going to split my system between Olympus OM-D u4/3 for every day carry and Canon FF for serious shooting. Not dumping the 7D just yet though..
 
How do retailers handle a price drop? If they have stock they bought at the old price, how do they sell it for a new cheaper retail price and still make money? Does canon give them cash back?
 
tiler65 said:
One more point, you knobs that take big zoom lenses to these shows ruin it for everyone else. Space is a premium anyway and you guys halve that space with your full kit on yer backs.

Get a life.
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lol, my sentiments exactly. Perves!
 
joescrivens said:
How do retailers handle a price drop? If they have stock they bought at the old price, how do they sell it for a new cheaper retail price and still make money? Does canon give them cash back?
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They normally get notification in advance of whatever happens with prices - retailers work on a projected sales basis, and generally buy in 100's or 1000's of units.. They tend not to order one today, two tomorrow and four on Thursday. The price we pay today reflects the price they agreed some time ago.. If there is any old stock when the price drops, the retailer has to take the hit in the majority of cases, however there are exceptions depending on the 'deal' the retailer has with the manufacturer... Most big retailers will have known what was coming, and should have planned for it accordingly...
 
cymruchris said:
And I've just spotted the first 'reasonably priced' pre-order - assuming it's correct.

Digital Rev have it on their website as a delivered price of just over £2500.

5d3 for nearly reasonable money
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That's definitely more like it. I could be seriously tempted to buy straight away at that price.

Presumably both DigitalRev and Kerso will be selling imports. What's the rub with import bodies? I've always been a bit wary, I'm not sure why. Is there any difference other than a non-UK power lead? How about warranty?
 
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