Neutral Density Filters

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Robbo 1

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Rob
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Afternoon People,

I am new to photography, having only used a compact in the past.
I have bought myself a Panasonic Lumix fz200 bridge camera as I am going on Safari in Kenya next year for honeymoon.

I have been reading up & teaching myself about apertures & shutter speeds etc and going out and experimenting with all this.

I live in Southend and was trying to take long exposure shots of the sea etc and the image was coming out far too bright to see anything.

After some research discovered this was due to not having a Netural Density filter on while shooting these images. (Please correct me if im wrong lol)

What I was wondering is, do all 52mm filters fit all camera's with a 52mm screw?
If so, would I get good long exposure shots on my fz200 with an ND filter,
Which is the best beginner filter to try (could only afford 1 at the moment)
ND2, ND4 or ND8?
& Finally.....what make & where to buy would you suggest?

Thanks in advance

Rob
 
Robbo 1 said:
Afternoon People,

I am new to photography, having only used a compact in the past.
I have bought myself a Panasonic Lumix fz200 bridge camera as I am going on Safari in Kenya next year for honeymoon.

I have been reading up & teaching myself about apertures & shutter speeds etc and going out and experimenting with all this.

I live in Southend and was trying to take long exposure shots of the sea etc and the image was coming out far too bright to see anything.

After some research discovered this was due to not having a Netural Density filter on while shooting these images. (Please correct me if im wrong lol)

What I was wondering is, do all 52mm filters fit all camera's with a 52mm screw?
If so, would I get good long exposure shots on my fz200 with an ND filter,
Which is the best beginner filter to try (could only afford 1 at the moment)
ND2, ND4 or ND8?
& Finally.....what make & where to buy would you suggest?

Thanks in advance

Rob
Click to expand...

Short answer, yes if your camera's filter size is 52mm (written inside the lens cap usually) then that's the one. Suggest Haida ten-stopper from CameraGearUK or Premier Ink.

Longer answer, search/google the Exposure Triangle. From that you'll find that an exposure time of two or three seconds (or more to blur things like waves and clouds) is massively greater than the usual 1/250sec or so used in normal daylight.

So you need a very dark ND filter and ND2 is only one stop, ND4 is two, ND8 is three stops. You need more like ten stops, which is actually ND1024 (sometimes called ND3.0 in optical density, just to confuse you ;)).
 
When I started out using filters, I couldnt figure out what I needed, I got myself a Hoya polarising filter and I got a cheap variable ND filter (2-200) on Ebay instead of wasting money on expensive filters that I didn't need.

I would very much recommend this approach until you've worked out how it all works and what best suits your needs.....
 
HoppyUK said:
Short answer, yes if your camera's filter size is 52mm (written inside the lens cap usually) then that's the one. Suggest Haida ten-stopper from CameraGearUK or Premier Ink.

Longer answer, search/google the Exposure Triangle. From that you'll find that an exposure time of two or three seconds (or more to blur things like waves and clouds) is massively greater than the usual 1/250sec or so used in normal daylight.

So you need a very dark ND filter and ND2 is only one stop, ND4 is two, ND8 is three stops. You need more like ten stops, which is actually ND1024 (sometimes called ND3.0 in optical density, just to confuse you ;)).
Click to expand...

Hi mate,
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I will read into the exposure triangle now (so much to learn lol)
On looking at Premier Ink, the Haida filters are about half the price of the Hoya filters (£15 instead of £35), is this due to a poorer quality of glass or just because of different manufacturer?
Are the stops mutiples of 2 of the previous stop i.e.
1 stop is ND2
2 stop is ND4
3 stop is ND8
4 stop is ND16
Up to 10 at 1024?

So with a sunset im still likely to need an ND 3.0?
What & when are the ND2, 4, 8 etc generally used as from a quick read earlier I was under the illusion a lot of people use ND4 & ND8.
(Again, very new to this so all advise is welcome)

Thanks Again, Rob
 
Lyonspride said:
When I started out using filters, I couldnt figure out what I needed, I got myself a Hoya polarising filter and I got a cheap variable ND filter (2-200) on Ebay instead of wasting money on expensive filters that I didn't need.

I would very much recommend this approach until you've worked out how it all works and what best suits your needs.....
Click to expand...

Thanks Lyonspride, How much roughly would I be looking at for a cheap variable ND?
Would you suggest something like this as a starter?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/52mm-Vari...Filters_JN&hash=item3cd178e0c1#ht_4413wt_1215

And if im on the right wave length I take it an ND400 is somewhere between the ND256 (8 f stops) & ND512 (9 f stops)
 
Robbo 1 said:
Hi mate,
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I will read into the exposure triangle now (so much to learn lol)
On looking at Premier Ink, the Haida filters are about half the price of the Hoya filters (£15 instead of £35), is this due to a poorer quality of glass or just because of different manufacturer?
Are the stops mutiples of 2 of the previous stop i.e.
1 stop is ND2
2 stop is ND4
3 stop is ND8
4 stop is ND16
Up to 10 at 1024?

So with a sunset im still likely to need an ND 3.0?
What & when are the ND2, 4, 8 etc generally used as from a quick read earlier I was under the illusion a lot of people use ND4 & ND8.
(Again, very new to this so all advise is welcome)

Thanks Again, Rob
Click to expand...

Don't get a vari-ND filter. They sound like the perfect answer, but are not. Haida is just great value. There are better ND filters about, but most users would be hard pressed to tell the difference, and only on rare occasions.

The Exposure Triangle: whole books have been written on this, but the basis of it is very simple. You need a certain amount of light on the sensor for a good result. Shutter speed adjusts the time light falls on the sensor, aperture varies the brightness of that light, and ISO changes the sensitivity of the sensor.

Changing one control also affects the others so all three must be adjusted together, according to the brightness of the prevailing light. They are all linked by a halving/double principle and a unit of two is known as 'one stop'. 1/125sec is obviously twice as long as 1/250sec, and ISO100 is half as sensitive to light as ISO200.

The tricky one is apertures, and they are linked by the square root of two, ie 1.4, and they also work back-to-front (there is mathematical logic to this, but it's not immediately obvious!). For example, f/2.8 lets in twice as much light as f/4, which is twice f/5.6 and so on - you just have to learn this. In addition, there are incremental settings, usually in one-third stops, so you can mix and match with greater precision.

Now ND2, ND4, ND8 etc should make more sense. Those filters have their uses (for another time) but for example, a three stops reduction (ND8) on a normal daylight exposure of 1/250sec will only get you down to 1/30sec and for the effect you're looking for the exposure time needs to be much longer. Of course, if you're shooting say later in the day when the daylight is less bright, ideally you'd use a less dark ND filter but in practise you can usually get away with it by juggling the other settings. Exposure setting is all about compromises, the trick is in choosing the best one ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
Don't get a vari-ND filter. They sound like the perfect answer, but are not.
Click to expand...


I wasn't suggesting it as an answer, but more of a cheap test to see what the OP really wants. It's all too easy to start splashing out on bits of kit that end up in the bottom of your camera bag and never see the light of day.
 
I second the Haida 10 Stop filter. Had mine for about 2 weeks, and have used i loads, with fanastic results. Also, its only £15 from Premier Ink. Link

You can see an example on my Flickr if you interested (see sig)
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
Don't get a vari-ND filter. They sound like the perfect answer, but are not. Haida is just great value. There are better ND filters about, but most users would be hard pressed to tell the difference, and only on rare occasions.

The Exposure Triangle: whole books have been written on this, but the basis of it is very simple. You need a certain amount of light on the sensor for a good result. Shutter speed adjusts the time light falls on the sensor, aperture varies the brightness of that light, and ISO changes the sensitivity of the sensor.

Changing one control also affects the others so all three must be adjusted together, according to the brightness of the prevailing light. They are all linked by a halving/double principle and a unit of two is known as 'one stop'. 1/125sec is obviously twice as long as 1/250sec, and ISO100 is half as sensitive to light as ISO200.

The tricky one is apertures, and they are linked by the square root of two, ie 1.4, and they also work back-to-front (there is mathematical logic to this, but it's not immediately obvious!). For example, f/2.8 lets in twice as much light as f/4, which is twice f/5.6 and so on - you just have to learn this. In addition, there are incremental settings, usually in one-third stops, so you can mix and match with greater precision.

Now ND2, ND4, ND8 etc should make more sense. Those filters have their uses (for another time) but for example, a three stops reduction (ND8) on a normal daylight exposure of 1/250sec will only get you down to 1/30sec and for the effect you're looking for the exposure time needs to be much longer. Of course, if you're shooting say later in the day when the daylight is less bright, ideally you'd use a less dark ND filter but in practise you can usually get away with it by juggling the other settings. Exposure setting is all about compromises, the trick is in choosing the best one ;)
Click to expand...

Hoppy, thanks for the in depth information!
Its a big help towards understanding ND filters!
I was considering buying the Panasonic DMW-LND52 which is an ND8, as ive read on another site that a good starting place is to buy an ND8 & then an ND4.
Still keeping my options open and may choose the 10 stopper option, but wouldnt this be too dark?
Would you use a 10 stopper in the day & an ND8 in the evenings? :thinking: lol
Cheers for the input guys!
 
Robbo 1 said:
Hoppy, thanks for the in depth information!
Its a big help towards understanding ND filters!
I was considering buying the Panasonic DMW-LND52 which is an ND8, as ive read on another site that a good starting place is to buy an ND8 & then an ND4.
Still keeping my options open and may choose the 10 stopper option, but wouldnt this be too dark?
Would you use a 10 stopper in the day & an ND8 in the evenings? :thinking: lol
Cheers for the input guys!
Click to expand...

You're welcome Robbo. Read the last paragraph again ;)

The darkness of the ND filter you need varies with a) the brightness of the ambient light, and b) the effect you want, ie how long a shutter speed.

If it's milky waves and streaky clouds in normal daylight, then you'll need a lot more than ND8. When the daylight is less bright in the evening, that changes things.
 
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