NEEWER - Smart 250SDI Strobe Flash

saul01

saul01

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Hello,

I am thinking of purchasing the above strobe flash from here. No that much more than a YN speedlite, so thought it might be a better option. Mainly for home use and portraits of kids.

Does anyone own one of the these, and if so give their personal opinion.

Many Thanks

Saul.
 
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saul01 said:
Does anyone own one of the these, and if so give their personal opinion.
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I personally view them as unreliable crap, poor performance, poor reliability and they don't even provide a decent fitting so you can't use all those Elinchrom and Bowens modifiers which is half the point of buying a studio flash.

The key selling point of them is they're cheap but for only £20-30 more you could be buying a decent brand second hand (Elinchrom D-lite 2, Bowens GM200 etc). I just can't see a justification for them at £60, £30 maybe? They also have substantially less resale value/desirability which should be a consideration if you don't know how much you'll actually be using them.
 
simonbarker said:
I personally view them as unreliable crap, poor performance, poor reliability and they don't even provide a decent fitting so you can't use all those Elinchrom and Bowens modifiers which is half the point of buying a studio flash.

The key selling point of them is they're cheap but for only £20-30 more you could be buying a decent brand second hand (Elinchrom D-lite 2, Bowens GM200 etc). I just can't see a justification for them at £60, £30 maybe? They also have substantially less resale value/desirability which should be a consideration if you don't know how much you'll actually be using them.
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So you've tried them then?
 
i have a pair of them. used once with a big octagon umbrellas.. just as a test . never found any issues with them but have nothing to compare them with but they have beauty lamp and worked. fine for home portraits and the like but i would guess under daily studio use of course you are going to want something more durable.
certainly for the money and for use as home studio shoots of the kids i see nothing wrong with them. and again the usual cheap rubbish comment arises, but people i think forget not everyone on here is a pro with a fortune to spend on kit and plenty of people are more than happy and can worth with the budget gear thats out there.

if you are interested though drop me a PM. as i say mine are new in box and only used once for testing purposes but due to circumstances relating to health i dont do any more studio / portrait shots otehr than occasional outdoor stuff .
id be more than happy to sell mine as a pair for a suitably reasonable price.
 
dean messenger said:
certainly for the money and for use as home studio shoots of the kids i see nothing wrong with them. and again the usual cheap rubbish comment arises, but people i think forget not everyone on here is a pro with a fortune to spend on kit and plenty of people are more than happy and can worth with the budget gear thats out there.
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You're not actually reading what I wrote then, you're overpaying if you pay £60 for those heads.

Let me rephrase... my problem with them isn't that they're cheap crap, it's that they're expensive for cheap crap.
 
Saul,

Use your speed light and learn about lighting, if you still want some then have a look at the Lencarta range.

I am in the same boat and am just saving up for the Lencarta lights.

Saying that not used the camera for a while.... :-(
 
simonbarker said:
Nah I just like making stuff up.

If you disagree with the points I raised surely you could say what points I raised were incorrect rather than questioning my experience?
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I'm not disagreeing with your points, merely asking if you've actually tried them.
I appreciate that you generally get what you pay for, but wasn't sure if you were assuming they'd be crap because they weren't expensive.
 
simonbarker said:
You're not actually reading what I wrote then, you're overpaying if you pay £60 for those heads.

Let me rephrase... my problem with them isn't that they're cheap crap, it's that they're expensive for cheap crap.
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well yes i am. your comparing some new lights at £60 to some secondhand ones that can cost 3 x as much.
hardly in the same bracket so for the money at £60 they are good value.
and as i pointed out. not everyone has bottomless pockets and budgets for Pro grade gear, if the did i wouldnt be using a £50 100-300 20 year old canon ef lens. its not always you get what you pay for, but you get what you can afford.
 
dean messenger said:
well yes i am. your comparing some new lights at £60 to some secondhand ones that can cost 3 x as much.
hardly in the same bracket so for the money at £60 they are good value.
and as i pointed out. not everyone has bottomless pockets and budgets for Pro grade gear, if the did i wouldnt be using a £50 100-300 20 year old canon ef lens. its not always you get what you pay for, but you get what you can afford.
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That's a terrible argument to make, it is precisely of zero importance what something originally cost and the only consideration is the actual cost. I gave examples of heads that cost about £20-30 more because I felt those were fundamentally better pieces and only slightly more expensive but I could just have easily gone the other way and suggested ones that cost £20-30 less (Interfit Stellar 150, EX150A, EX150 II) and those would have the clear cut advantage of using a standard fitting (Elinchrom or Bowens). So please let's not waste anymore time talking about bottomless pockets and pro grade gear when I'm arguing those generic Neewer's are overpriced.

Were you to make the argument it's bad advice because a beginner may struggle with or dislike the idea of secondhand equipment I wouldn't argue with you as that's a personal choice only they can make but in all honesty I'd think £60 spent on a good Yongnuo speedlight as money better spent than on those Neewer heads.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I'm not disagreeing with your points, merely asking if you've actually tried them.
I appreciate that you generally get what you pay for, but wasn't sure if you were assuming they'd be crap because they weren't expensive.
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I apologize for my tone then, I had the same experience when I was arguing the opposite for a cheap practical solution so was getting the feeling there's no winning whatever your view may be.

I've used those Neewer's in grey and some unbranded versions as part of cheap kits, as far as I'm aware they're all largely the same but by all means someone correct me if that's not the case (pretty sure it was the same model number).
 
simonbarker said:
That's a terrible argument to make, it is precisely of zero importance what something originally cost and the only consideration is the actual cost. I gave examples of heads that cost about £20-30 more because I felt those were fundamentally better pieces and only slightly more expensive but I could just have easily gone the other way and suggested ones that cost £20-30 less (Interfit Stellar 150, EX150A, EX150 II) and those would have the clear cut advantage of using a standard fitting (Elinchrom or Bowens). So please let's not waste anymore time talking about bottomless pockets and pro grade gear when I'm arguing those generic Neewer's are overpriced.

Were you to make the argument it's bad advice because a beginner may struggle with or dislike the idea of secondhand equipment I wouldn't argue with you as that's a personal choice only they can make but in all honesty I'd think £60 spent on a good Yongnuo speedlight as money better spent than on those Neewer heads.
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and if you read i said second hand was 3x.. having googled both models you mentioned , new prices are more like 4-5x the neewer. so i stand by the fact its no comparison.. may as well say a ford is no good , go buy a second hand ferrari.
so your comparison to say you can get better ones for 20-30 more is wrong and is hardly a fair comparsion. as for overpriced. i would love to see something under £100 NEW thats much better. and if you want to bring the secondhand argument into well then you can say the neewer ones second hand could be picked up for 30-40.
so apart from the incompatible fitting ( well isnt that just about the same for most things int he camera world these days ? ) what did you find actually wrong with. beauty lamp, slave mode, long 5m power lead, stepless, power, reasonably fast reccharge, comes with standard bracket for mounting on stand, and in the testing i did never had a misfire
 
dean messenger said:
and if you read i said second hand was 3x.. having googled both models you mentioned , new prices are more like 4-5x the neewer. so i stand by the fact its no comparison.. may as well say a ford is no good , go buy a second hand ferrari.
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An original D-lite 2 (pre IT/RX) second hand will cost about £90 (heck an original D-lite 4 probably won't be much over £100) so that's no more than 50% and you can't seriously be comparing an old D-lite or EX150 to a Ferrari? They're bog standard heads these days and I still don't get what you're driving at here, you can buy new that's better for a little under double the cost (Lencarta preferably or Interfit at worst) but I still don't get why you're comparing new to new, if Saul doesn't mind second hand he has a good opportunity to save money and get a better product but if not he's welcome to discard the suggestion as not suitable.

dean messenger said:
so your comparison to say you can get better ones for 20-30 more is wrong and is hardly a fair comparsion. as for overpriced. i would love to see something under £100 NEW thats much better. and if you want to bring the secondhand argument into well then you can say the neewer ones second hand could be picked up for 30-40.
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It's only wrong if you limit your choices (fair is not important here), you can absolutely get better for less money but you just can't do so with new pieces (no one is arguing otherwise). You could make the argument it's a good choice simply because it's the only option in that price bracket buying new but that doesn't make it good or the right choice.

You're right about buying the Neewer second hand but two problems with that, the first is I simply don't trust their reliability and I buy everything second hand, the second is there's second hand products in the same second hand price range yet better models (Interfit springs to mind).

dean messenger said:
so apart from the incompatible fitting ( well isnt that just about the same for most things int he camera world these days ? ) what did you find actually wrong with. beauty lamp, slave mode, long 5m power lead, stepless, power, reasonably fast reccharge, comes with standard bracket for mounting on stand, and in the testing i did never had a misfire
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No it's only the cheapest nastiest stuff which uses those universal fittings, it's a Chinese bodge which is a pain in the rear as there's only something like 6 major fittings (in practical terms of this conversation) of which Elinchrom and Bowens have 90% of the market which is important when you factor in the cost and availability of buying new modifiers but is probably beyond the scope of the ops requirements at this stage.

Actually performance isn't something I'd worry about, when you pay more for a studio head you're generally paying for higher performance so it's only natural you sacrifice raw performance for the money saving (not to mention consistency at this level but again probably not a real concern for the op at this stage), saying that I would love to measure the output of those Neewer heads I bet they're decidedly less than 250w even with that inbuilt reflector.

My main concerns which I already outlined above are:

Universal fitting: Has a fixed reflector, flies in the face of a bare bulb design making it worse for studio modifiers (which is the key thing with a studio head)
Reliability: Those heads won't last long, this would matter to me if I was going to leave the kit in a cupboard for long periods of inactivity
Resale: These things have very little resale value, this should matter to someone who may decide not to keep them

I hate to keep banging the second hand drum as it's not for everyone but does the Neewer strike you as good value when an extra £40 gets you a 2 head Interfit full kit?
 
simonbarker said:
My main concerns which I already outlined above are:

Universal fitting: Has a fixed reflector, flies in the face of a bare bulb design making it worse for studio modifiers (which is the key thing with a studio head)
Reliability: Those heads won't last long, this would matter to me if I was going to leave the kit in a cupboard for long periods of inactivity
Resale: These things have very little resale value, this should matter to someone who may decide not to keep them
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These are the things that really matter.
With a 'universal' fitting (which means no accessory fitting worth the description) you may as well just get a hotshoe flashgun, because lighting is all about modifying and controlling the light.
This type of head isn't designed for heavy use, but although a lot of people have reported almost instant failures, they are likely to be adeqate for occasional use.
The other things that should be important to you are the slow recycling time, which again puts them in the hotshoe flash class, the very dim modelling lamps (which again puts them into the hotshoe flash class in the sense that a dim modelling lamp isn't worth having and that if you actually use the modelling lamp for more than a few minutes the head overheats anyway), the very limited range of adjustment and the fact that both the flash power and the colour temperature tends to be very variable, which means that getting a correctly exposed shot with acceptable colour is very largely a matter of luck.

Having said all this, they are probably no worse than the very old 'good' makes of lights that so many people kid themselves to be good. The very old Bowens etc lights that still get bought on Ebay for what I think are unrealistically high prices were just as basic but carried (and still carry) a hefty brand premium.

Modern lights are very different. I wouldn't describe these particular lights as modern, they were designed by a firm that sold out 9 years ago, and were 'designed' several years before that.
 
well point in me in the direction then as if i google d lite 4 the price comes back at around £250 and bowens gm200 at £236. even if you knocked those prices in half for second hand its still more than double the cost.
interfit kit 220 and only 150 watts.
its quite clear what the op was asking. occasional use for home shots.. spending £100 could be beyond budget or beyond what they simply want to pay to play around occasionally with strobes.
if someone said they wanted to shoot a few family shots and were looking at a £100 bridge camera would you also say no thats crap get a second hand 5d mk 1 instead.
camera snobbery is all it is.
 
sep9001 said:
Saul,

Use your speed light and learn about lighting, if you still want some then have a look at the Lencarta range.

I am in the same boat and am just saving up for the Lencarta lights.

Saying that not used the camera for a while.... :-(
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Thanks, that's what I am planning to do anyhow. For what I will use the lights for, personally I feel the likes of the Lencarta range will be an overkill.
 
dean messenger said:
i have a pair of them. used once with a big octagon umbrellas.. just as a test . never found any issues with them but have nothing to compare them with but they have beauty lamp and worked. fine for home portraits and the like but i would guess under daily studio use of course you are going to want something more durable.
certainly for the money and for use as home studio shoots of the kids i see nothing wrong with them. and again the usual cheap rubbish comment arises, but people i think forget not everyone on here is a pro with a fortune to spend on kit and plenty of people are more than happy and can worth with the budget gear thats out there.

if you are interested though drop me a PM. as i say mine are new in box and only used once for testing purposes but due to circumstances relating to health i dont do any more studio / portrait shots otehr than occasional outdoor stuff .
id be more than happy to sell mine as a pair for a suitably reasonable price.
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Hi Dean,

Thank you for the info. Not at home just now, and like a dimwit left my phone at work. Will PM you when I get home.
 
Saul, my experience is learn to use and love speed lights with some reflectors especially for home stuff (ive now found a great set up using 2 reflectors and a speddlight) I'm coming out of the other side of spending best part of £700 on studio lighting kits which have sat in the cupboard for the last 3months
 
dean messenger said:
well point in me in the direction then as if i google d lite 4 the price comes back at around £250 and bowens gm200 at £236. even if you knocked those prices in half for second hand its still more than double the cost.
interfit kit 220 and only 150 watts.
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You're not listening, those prices I quoted you were second hand so why do you keep linking new prices? I already gave you the second hand prices, an original D-lite 2 is under £100.

If you desperately must have new there's always the Lencarta SmartFlash 2 200, it's just shy of £110 and how much power do you think that Neewer is actually delivering?

dean messenger said:
its quite clear what the op was asking. occasional use for home shots.. spending £100 could be beyond budget or beyond what they simply want to pay to play around occasionally with strobes.
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I gave suggestions which were both over and under the ops original amount, you can keep trying to beat me up with the argument I'm suggesting he spend thousands of pounds but the only place that's happening is in your head.

dean messenger said:
if someone said they wanted to shoot a few family shots and were looking at a £100 bridge camera would you also say no thats crap get a second hand 5d mk 1 instead.
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You've been bringing up these terrible metaphors throughout the conversation, a more valid one would be you're advocating the op stick with a camera that can't use any lenses or a handful of really poor ones that aren't commonly available.

If someone looking for a camera could get the 5D with a lens for less than the bridge, I don't see why that's a bad thing.

dean messenger said:
camera snobbery is all it is.
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Yes someone recommending an Interfit EX150 second hand is being snobbish, stop being daft and get that chip off your shoulder. Unless you've got shares in Neewer I fail to see why you're such a big advocate of those heads, you've failed to explain their value beyond they're lower priced than alternatives new, is that the only thing going for them?

Let me be blunt, your argument seems to boil down to beginners can't or shouldn't spend thousands the irritating thing about that is no one has actually made that suggestion.
 
Fatheadedlizard said:
Saul, my experience is learn to use and love speed lights with some reflectors especially for home stuff (ive now found a great set up using 2 reflectors and a speddlight) I'm coming out of the other side of spending best part of £700 on studio lighting kits which have sat in the cupboard for the last 3months
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See this is my thought, buying a full kit is not a problem. The problem will be it sat under the bed, in the cupboard for long periods of time. I think another speedlite and poss another reflector is the way forward. By any chance would you have any pics of your set up? It's only my 3rd week into OCF and any help would be much appreciated.
 
@ Simonbarker and Dean, I do apologise but seems like my post has started a heated debate between you guys.

It was more a thought, than a full commitment to purchase. In all honesty sat here on google, once you factor in the cost of a universal adaptor etc, it's not much less than say a Lencarta Smart Flash.

I think for me this is more a case of Run before you can walk. I've have literally just started dabling in OCF , and looking at more equipment before knowing how to use what I have.
 
You can go a long way with speedlights (about as far as you can with the crap light in the OP).
Where speedlights fail is the fitting of different modifiers. As Garry said, a light source is a light source, it's what happens next that's important.

If you really think you'll be moving into lots of studio type work, look at a decent s/h or even new studio head, £ for £ that's the best learning tool. If you just want to have a mess around now and again, stick with speedlights.

The cheap Chinese heads with integrated reflectors are an object lesson in wasting your money. They're not as flexible as a proper head, and they don't have the portability of a speedlight.

Here's a new proper studio head for a bit more money that's a better buy.

Here's a s/h one
There's loads more too, you just have to look.
 
saul01 said:
@ Simonbarker and Dean, I do apologise but seems like my post has started a heated debate between you guys.

It was more a thought, than a full commitment to purchase. In all honesty sat here on google, once you factor in the cost of a universal adaptor etc, it's not much less than say a Lencarta Smart Flash.

I think for me this is more a case of Run before you can walk. I've have literally just started dabling in OCF , and looking at more equipment before knowing how to use what I have.
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Don't worry about the heated debate, unfortunately this is the internet and unless you understand who you're listening to, all opinions may seem equal.

But if I tell you that @Garry Edwards has forgotten more about lighting than most of the rest of us know (information you can hang your hat on), then you remember Garry is also paid to sell Lencarta, but he tries to offer neutral advice. Then generally if Garry says the opposite to someone that someone is probably wrong. Then remember there's more than one way to fry a fish, so you can cut people some slack, with the following caveat...

The longer way round is to try to find examples of peoples work. You can measure how much an 'expert' someone is by the quality of their output.
 
saul01 said:
See this is my thought, buying a full kit is not a problem. The problem will be it sat under the bed, in the cupboard for long periods of time. I think another speedlite and poss another reflector is the way forward. By any chance would you have any pics of your set up? It's only my 3rd week into OCF and any help would be much appreciated.
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Next time I have them up ill take a picture but generally if its a bright day ill put the kids side on to the patio doors with a reflector to my right to fill in the shadows, with another reflector as the background which if you want it white you can use the speed light to light it.


Some really good advice on from here people like Phil V & Garry Edwards just a case of slowing down getting the basics right first
 
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saul01 said:
@ Simonbarker and Dean, I do apologise but seems like my post has started a heated debate between you guys.
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No need to apologise, we shouldn't have been spamming your thread as it's more likely to confuse than help someone regardless of who's right or wrong but as Phil says it's the internet.

saul01 said:
It was more a thought, than a full commitment to purchase. In all honesty sat here on google, once you factor in the cost of a universal adaptor etc, it's not much less than say a Lencarta Smart Flash.

I think for me this is more a case of Run before you can walk. I've have literally just started dabling in OCF , and looking at more equipment before knowing how to use what I have.
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You seem to have a good handle on what to do, good luck with it, off camera flash can be very rewarding.
 
end of the day we are all here for one thing, photography. what works for some others for otehrs it doesnt. one person will swear by nikon, one by canon. one by off camera flash another by strobes. some shoot wide angle others prefer telephoto. some colour some black and white. we all have different views, different budgets, different likes and dislikes.. wouldnt be human if we didnt.
the neewers for me. sure they are cheap and cheeful, but the few tests ive done for some basic home shots theyve done the job ( i also have a pair of speedlites and wireless triggers so can only compare them to those ) , others may have tried them and deemed them suitable only for the bin. thats just the way of the world and yeah sometimes we may get a little het up over what are basically stupid unimportant trivial minor things but sometimes its just being passionate about it and the internet is the worlds worst place for expressing that properly into words sometimes without it being misconstrued as being an obnoxious.
lifes to short to worry about it tbh ( having had a year of hell and two life saving surgeries i know that one full well ) . doesnt stop me being a little overzealous and contractdictory sometimes but its done with sincere meaning and no maliciousness behind it.
so on that note have a good night all.. off to bed!
 
If you do decide to go down the studio strobe route just make sure you can get modifiers to fit the head.
 
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