Tomorrow I am taking picture for my University, it's basically a big nightclub. I have heard contradictory things. For example, some people have said use a fast shutter speed and a bright setting for the flash and some said use a slower shutter speed and use a less hard flash setting. Also been told to use a high ISO to get a brighter picture but then some have said use a low one as the high ones will introduce ALOT of noise. I am using a Nikon D3100 camera with the Speedlight SB-600 flash. I just want some help on what kind of pictures they would create with such settings. Thanks in advance! (As you can probably tell I am VERY new to it all!)
Need help for nightclub pictures!
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Invest in a 1.8 50mm! Forget the zoom need big appature for low light and also not to high on the iso as it goves to much noise.
futureal33
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50mm is way too long for nightclub work.
If I was you (and I used to do this every weekend), I would stick to these settings
M Mode
ISO 1600
f5.6
1/5th sec
Flash ON
If your flash is too bright, drop the ISO to 800 and/or narrow your aperture to F8
Couple of examples
Club 2 by futureal33, on Flickr
Club 1 by futureal33, on Flickr
Club 4 by futureal33, on Flickr
Main thing is to keep your shutter speed around 1/5th (or longer) to bring through the ambience of the club lighting. The rest of your settings are really controlling the flash power to light up the ****heads infront of your lens
If I was you (and I used to do this every weekend), I would stick to these settings
M Mode
ISO 1600
f5.6
1/5th sec
Flash ON
If your flash is too bright, drop the ISO to 800 and/or narrow your aperture to F8
Couple of examples
Club 2 by futureal33, on Flickr
Club 1 by futureal33, on Flickr
Club 4 by futureal33, on Flickr
Main thing is to keep your shutter speed around 1/5th (or longer) to bring through the ambience of the club lighting. The rest of your settings are really controlling the flash power to light up the ****heads infront of your lens
HoppyUK
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As Nick says ^^^
This is a good thread on club shooting http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=268784&highlight=nightclub
This is a good thread on club shooting http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=268784&highlight=nightclub
If you've got fast lenses then shooting without a flash is fantastic, sadly it seems thats not a possibility for you. My go to setup for club work is manual mode with F7.1 ISO100 and 1/160th if im doing portraits that I want to be sharp with the flash on ETTL through a diffuser. Exposure for the background to get ambient light in by bumping up the ISO until you get a reasonably balanced image. To bring more movement to the image up lower the shutter speed and decrease the aperture/iso.
Past this you may want to try playing around with longer exposures 1/4 second+ with second curtain for some interesting effects around lights but dont overdo it.
Is a prime example of second curtain.
Exposing for the background and turning your flash off can generate some interesting images now and again as well, crowd shots etc.
Its been a while since I've done any club work as I refuse to do it for free. Good luck, its good fun none the less. Just stay away from the drink else **** can go tits up fast!
Past this you may want to try playing around with longer exposures 1/4 second+ with second curtain for some interesting effects around lights but dont overdo it.
Is a prime example of second curtain.
Exposing for the background and turning your flash off can generate some interesting images now and again as well, crowd shots etc.
Its been a while since I've done any club work as I refuse to do it for free. Good luck, its good fun none the less. Just stay away from the drink else **** can go tits up fast!
Ignore everything in this thread up until futureal33's post. If you want nightclub photos to look good you need to:
use a flashgun
use a wide lens
probably shoot at wide open aperture
use a slow shutter speed (from 1/25 down to anything like 1/5)
use a high ISO
There are two ways I do nightclub photography and it depends ENTIRELY on the venue and where in the venue I am. Since we visit about 35 different venues it varies from place to place.
I try my absolute best to avoid direct flash because I hate it. Most of the time I try to bounce of a wall or a low ceiling (or both) but in some places which have a wide open dance floor and a very high ceiling it's impossible so I pop a stofen diffuser on and angle the flash at 90 degrees.
Here are some examples:
Bounced flash
off a wall
inside a tent
probably my favourite venue, it's long and narrow with almost-white walls. literally perfect for bounce flash
outside on the street, bounced off a building behind me
stofen at 90 degrees (directly vertical)
use a flashgun
use a wide lens
probably shoot at wide open aperture
use a slow shutter speed (from 1/25 down to anything like 1/5)
use a high ISO
There are two ways I do nightclub photography and it depends ENTIRELY on the venue and where in the venue I am. Since we visit about 35 different venues it varies from place to place.
I try my absolute best to avoid direct flash because I hate it. Most of the time I try to bounce of a wall or a low ceiling (or both) but in some places which have a wide open dance floor and a very high ceiling it's impossible so I pop a stofen diffuser on and angle the flash at 90 degrees.
Here are some examples:
Bounced flash
off a wall
inside a tent
probably my favourite venue, it's long and narrow with almost-white walls. literally perfect for bounce flash
outside on the street, bounced off a building behind me
stofen at 90 degrees (directly vertical)
Velocity Studio
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Personally Im with futureal33 and ohara (I think!). Looking at futureal33's examples (that are very nice futureal33!) and how I would think about these kind of shots you need to split the image in two, the background and the foreground. If you loose the background you loose the atmosphere but if you just think about that you will no dount loose the foreground. Simple solution:
Set camera for ambient light, ie the back ground. This is down to you how bright you want this. Personally I like darker background that give a feel of the nightclub (assuming its not a very bright nightclub!) and picks out the lights etc. To do this chance is its low light so its big apertures (F3.5 in your case if possible) and then balance your ISO and shutter speed depending on if quality or image sharpeness is more important. Camera will be set to manual.
Flash. Set to manual, follow Ohara's advise on not using direct flash (use bounce/defusers etc) and change the power setting of your flash to get correct exposure on the people.
This way your backgroun is the exposure you want and so are the people. Camera controls background exposure and flash controls foreground exposure.
Hope this helps and good luck. Its not the easiest environment but once you get a feel for the setting its not that hard and very rewarding!
Set camera for ambient light, ie the back ground. This is down to you how bright you want this. Personally I like darker background that give a feel of the nightclub (assuming its not a very bright nightclub!) and picks out the lights etc. To do this chance is its low light so its big apertures (F3.5 in your case if possible) and then balance your ISO and shutter speed depending on if quality or image sharpeness is more important. Camera will be set to manual.
Flash. Set to manual, follow Ohara's advise on not using direct flash (use bounce/defusers etc) and change the power setting of your flash to get correct exposure on the people.
This way your backgroun is the exposure you want and so are the people. Camera controls background exposure and flash controls foreground exposure.
Hope this helps and good luck. Its not the easiest environment but once you get a feel for the setting its not that hard and very rewarding!
Agree with the above although regarding using manual flash, I would advise against it unless your camera does not have ETTL/iTTL. It's a lot of hassle setting the flash up and if you don't get it right the first couple of times people will get annoyed at waiting and probably give up. At least with ETTL mode you can quickly set the flash exposure compensation up or down through the cameras controls very quickly.
I normally keep my FEC on +2/3 and I have the SET button on my 550D mapped to open the FEC menu, so I take the first shot, quickly look at the review and then adjust accordingly. Once you get into this routine, you can should be able to shoot, review, adjust FEC and shoot again within 2 seconds.
If ETTL II didn't exist, I wouldn't bother doing the type of photography I do as it's too fast moving to be faffing around with manual flash control.
I normally keep my FEC on +2/3 and I have the SET button on my 550D mapped to open the FEC menu, so I take the first shot, quickly look at the review and then adjust accordingly. Once you get into this routine, you can should be able to shoot, review, adjust FEC and shoot again within 2 seconds.
If ETTL II didn't exist, I wouldn't bother doing the type of photography I do as it's too fast moving to be faffing around with manual flash control.
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I do a lot of club photography (paid) check my Flickr page and if you like my style I will share my ways with you.
Iv shot some big names such as pendulum, micky slim, diploma and skrillex
Iv shot some big names such as pendulum, micky slim, diploma and skrillex
Doesnt necessarily make you good
All I can see on your flickr is stuff shot with a fish eye? 
You use a fish eye lens which creates horrible affects... Like when you see like a mixing deck that should be straight is now curved. Looks terrible when EVERY picture is like that. Also alot of weird shadows on them, I'll look else where I think for a style. Cheers
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Lmfao I didn't say I was good, I said I was happy to help out if I can but you both can go shower yourselves with petals << Staff edit: No one makes friends round here being abusive
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I'm far from the business and in no way do I think I am. I was just telling you some of the artists I have had the pleasure of shooting!
You asked for help, I offered to help if I could and then all you done was slate my work!
You asked for help, I offered to help if I could and then all you done was slate my work!
Hmm I seemed to have missed your reply. Not bad shots for a first attempt. I shouldn't be one to criticise much as I'm far from a professional myself, but personally I'd increase the flash power a bit as your subjects look a bit underexposed and flat to me.
Also try to frame your shots lower, so your subjects heads are almost at the top of the frame. Otherwise you're wasting loads of space in your photos. I made this mistake a lot when I was new to it and I still do from time to time, and I kick myself for it afterwards. It was mostly because I was locking AF with the centre point and then just shooting, and after I would realise that almost HALF of the photo is wasted on nothingness.
Example of bad framing:
As you can see about 25% of each of these frames is wasted.
These are much better:
And if you have a group of people that are radically different heights, and you are lucky enough for them to be standing in order of height from shortest to tallest (for some reason this is actually quite common), just tip the camera to the side a bit. As well as making the top even, and filling more of the frame, it gives a nice effect too.
Hope this helps and look forward to seeing some more of your work
Also try to frame your shots lower, so your subjects heads are almost at the top of the frame. Otherwise you're wasting loads of space in your photos. I made this mistake a lot when I was new to it and I still do from time to time, and I kick myself for it afterwards. It was mostly because I was locking AF with the centre point and then just shooting, and after I would realise that almost HALF of the photo is wasted on nothingness.
Example of bad framing:
As you can see about 25% of each of these frames is wasted.
These are much better:
And if you have a group of people that are radically different heights, and you are lucky enough for them to be standing in order of height from shortest to tallest (for some reason this is actually quite common), just tip the camera to the side a bit. As well as making the top even, and filling more of the frame, it gives a nice effect too.
Hope this helps and look forward to seeing some more of your work
Also you may find that your cameras viewfinder is not a 100% accurate representation of the sensor size (especially if you have a crop camera). So even if you frame something right up against the top of what you believe will be the image, it might not be.
Mr. Fish
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i normally shoot at around 1/5th , f3.5-4, iso 800.. +1 on FEC too.. use rear curtain sync also..and if you start using slower shutter speeds, rotate the camera left and right, and you can get some funky light trails behind the subjects/clubbers...ive done some up at 1-2seconds before, and with rear curtain sync the subjects are still sharp
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There are no hard and fast rules, every venue is deiiferent, and the style you are aiming to achieve may be different to someone elses. So it's a case of taking what you know and tailoring it to achieve the result you want, much like any other genre of photography.
I created this a while back just to help withthe basics.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=268784&highlight=nightclub
I created this a while back just to help withthe basics.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=268784&highlight=nightclub
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Rob (Mr Fish), if your using a long shutter speed to create light trails it will make it far easier to use first instead of second curtain flash, exposure and image will be the same but you'll be able to see the crop/where people will appear in the end photo instead of having to estimate what speed you need to move your camera at.
Also generally speaking using manual flash instead of ETTL is far more accurate and saves you messing around with FEC depending on what people are wearing. That said the 7D that I just got is far better at ETTL than my 40D was so it might depend on how new your camera is (manual is still better though). It also isn't hard to do because in a nightclub you dont vary the distance you are from people very much. Probably about 95% of my shots are done with a 1 stop change in flash exposure or less.
tomcraven-As has been said before that's not moisture in your photos, its underexposure. Add +1 FEC to your shots and I reckon it should be pretty close to spot on. I also don't know what height you are but its better to get down to the same height as the people you are photographing (in your 3rd shot your looking down on the girls)
Also generally speaking using manual flash instead of ETTL is far more accurate and saves you messing around with FEC depending on what people are wearing. That said the 7D that I just got is far better at ETTL than my 40D was so it might depend on how new your camera is (manual is still better though). It also isn't hard to do because in a nightclub you dont vary the distance you are from people very much. Probably about 95% of my shots are done with a 1 stop change in flash exposure or less.
tomcraven-As has been said before that's not moisture in your photos, its underexposure. Add +1 FEC to your shots and I reckon it should be pretty close to spot on. I also don't know what height you are but its better to get down to the same height as the people you are photographing (in your 3rd shot your looking down on the girls)
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WAY too tight for nightclub shooting - you'd never get the clear space and large groups are out of the question.
Buy a Sigma 10-20mm - it's perfect for this work.
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danny777 said:
My nikon 16-85 works like a dream. Will post up some samples shortly
Mr. Fish
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will have to give it a try that way too when i hit a club again! always done it on 2nd with good results tho..cheers for the info
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Hello, i've been doing alot of nightclub work this year, here a few random ones i've still got kicking about on the computer, most get deleted as soon as they're sent as they're not really needed again. I've got loads of people (punter) shots from clubs but they all look the same after a while!
If you've got yourself a decent external flash, depending on the situation I would be shooting anywhere between 1/6th-0.8 seconds ish at a low f stop and low iso. If you've got somewhere with really nice lighting you want to show it, so slow the shutter speed and move your camera about! I've shot with other people in clubs and they always have different ideas, mostly using higher iso for a 'safer' shot, but I seem to suffer with mega amounts of noise doing it that way!
I used to use my 18-55 kit when I started off, but found if you're specifically shooting dj's (in a cramped box) or big groups of people in a packed venue, a wide angle is much much better! My 10-20 hasn't been off my camera for club work in a long time.
If you've got yourself a decent external flash, depending on the situation I would be shooting anywhere between 1/6th-0.8 seconds ish at a low f stop and low iso. If you've got somewhere with really nice lighting you want to show it, so slow the shutter speed and move your camera about! I've shot with other people in clubs and they always have different ideas, mostly using higher iso for a 'safer' shot, but I seem to suffer with mega amounts of noise doing it that way!
I used to use my 18-55 kit when I started off, but found if you're specifically shooting dj's (in a cramped box) or big groups of people in a packed venue, a wide angle is much much better! My 10-20 hasn't been off my camera for club work in a long time.
wealthysoup
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James how does a higher ISO give you a 'safer shot' in nightclubs? If anything it makes it harder since the clubs lights will have alot more effect on your subjects (combined with the fact that your flash wont be making as much light)
I appreciate everyone has their own style and technique but I disagree strongly with most of your post. Light trails I can understand, they add a funky effect although it's not my sort of thing, and our customer base also doesn't call for it.
As for using manual flash...don't even get me in to that. Me and my boss were having a chat about this a few nights back, and we were talking about how this company would most likely not exist if it were not for things such as digital, auto focus, ETTL etc. I joked about going for a whole night without using AF and we both decided it simply would not work. Although I do feel in a way that all this auto stuff is taking the job away from the camera man, when you're taking 1500+ shots in a nights work, you rely on things like ETTL and AF because you simply do not have time to do it yourself.
FYI we use M mode at wide open aperture (2.8 or 3.5 depending on which lens), shutter speed normally ALWAYS at 1/20 although you can go up or down a couple of stops if you have a venue with significantly better/worse lighting. I try to avoid going slower than 1/10 because you start getting signs of slow sync in the background and sometimes around your subjects. ISO stays fixed at 800 but we NEVER use manual focus or manual flash. It's ok if your subjects are always at the same distance for you, but there's just too much volatility in the scene in my type of work for me to mess about with flash settings. Plus I don't always use direct flash, I might bounce off a wall, use direct with a stofen, indirect with a stofen, bounce with a stofen etc.
We don't even shoot in RAW because it takes too much time to process afterwards. Everything is done in JPEG small (or medium on our club camera since they have less megapixels).
I absolutely agree that 50mm is ridiculous for nightclub work. I rarely find myself moving away from the wide end of a 16-35 or 18-55, I don't know how the hell you could shoot at 50mm!
However I wouldn't use a Sigma 10-20mm either, I think they are f/4 at the wide end and go to f/5.6 at the tight end? Sometimes I find f/3.5 a pain in the arse, especially when you're in a place with dark walls as the flash has to work harder. f/2.8 is ideal especially on a lens with constant max aperture like the 16-35.
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Ohara I appreciate the difference in opinion and will reply properly later. What do you do in clubs? Keyring, photos for club or for your bosses website? Have you got any examples of your photos?
Hi, we take photos in various venues around the city centre as well as on the street. All of the photos go on the website and anyone who creates an account (free) can download low res versions of the photos (free). One of the venues puts all of our photos from their club on their own website too. There is also the option to buy high res, retouched, prints etc. While I have only been doing it for a few months, the guy that runs it has been doing it since 2005. A few places also have a permanent photographer of ours on site who does keyrings on site.
See the site at http://www.smileonthetiles.com/gallery.html
See the site at http://www.smileonthetiles.com/gallery.html
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wealthysoup
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R.E. Ohara's posts
I really cant stand the navigation of that site but 2 quick examples of why ETTL isnt as good as your making it out to be:
http://www.smileonthetiles.com/smiles/displayimage.php?album=17450&pos=6
Under exposed because of the girls white top
http://www.smileonthetiles.com/smiles/displayimage.php?album=17486&pos=3
Over exposed because they are wearing black (then looks like they've tried to do a B+W conversion to save it)
From the photos I've seen there the distance doesn't change much (as I mentioned earlier) so why not use manual flash? Also what does AF have to do with ETTL? Are you really going to bother shining a bright light in everyones face to try to prove a point? Running with your point about manual focus it wont change much so with some experience it should only take a fraction of a second to do (If you can see anything). (If you don't believe me about focus staying quite similar try a 18-55 and take note of how little the front of the lens rotates) Again though why would you do it when AF is probably better than what you could do in MF 99% of the time for nightclub work.
Photos of mine (might have to like the pages to see them):
https://www.facebook.com/statusbangor
https://www.facebook.com/cafeceol
And im not claiming to be the best nightlife photographer ever (im clearly not) or anything like that but with a quick look you'll see that using manual flash the exposures pretty constant. And it only takes 1-2 seconds to do (which means its done when I'm approaching the people/they are starting to pose) (The only changes done to most of the pictures shown here are a batch resize and sharpen)
As I also said the newer cameras seem better at dealing with this than older ones and I think a 7D (or similar) with a USM lens (to transmit distance info) will have very little to fault, though I'll know this better next month
EDIT: Just wanted to add, for me if using direct flash (with or without a stofen) manuals the way to go. For bouncing from walls or ceilings then honestly ETTL will do a better job of managing exposure almost all the time (again I think it probably depends on experience) The problem with bouncing flash in clubs is that there are pretty much no white surfaces (in the clubs I've worked in anyway)
I really cant stand the navigation of that site but 2 quick examples of why ETTL isnt as good as your making it out to be:
http://www.smileonthetiles.com/smiles/displayimage.php?album=17450&pos=6
Under exposed because of the girls white top
http://www.smileonthetiles.com/smiles/displayimage.php?album=17486&pos=3
Over exposed because they are wearing black (then looks like they've tried to do a B+W conversion to save it)
From the photos I've seen there the distance doesn't change much (as I mentioned earlier) so why not use manual flash? Also what does AF have to do with ETTL? Are you really going to bother shining a bright light in everyones face to try to prove a point? Running with your point about manual focus it wont change much so with some experience it should only take a fraction of a second to do (If you can see anything). (If you don't believe me about focus staying quite similar try a 18-55 and take note of how little the front of the lens rotates) Again though why would you do it when AF is probably better than what you could do in MF 99% of the time for nightclub work.
Photos of mine (might have to like the pages to see them):
https://www.facebook.com/statusbangor
https://www.facebook.com/cafeceol
And im not claiming to be the best nightlife photographer ever (im clearly not) or anything like that but with a quick look you'll see that using manual flash the exposures pretty constant. And it only takes 1-2 seconds to do (which means its done when I'm approaching the people/they are starting to pose) (The only changes done to most of the pictures shown here are a batch resize and sharpen)
As I also said the newer cameras seem better at dealing with this than older ones and I think a 7D (or similar) with a USM lens (to transmit distance info) will have very little to fault, though I'll know this better next month
EDIT: Just wanted to add, for me if using direct flash (with or without a stofen) manuals the way to go. For bouncing from walls or ceilings then honestly ETTL will do a better job of managing exposure almost all the time (again I think it probably depends on experience) The problem with bouncing flash in clubs is that there are pretty much no white surfaces (in the clubs I've worked in anyway)
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