Need help calibrating a monitor.

shaylou

shaylou

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Shayne
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Hi all I am getting into printing my pictures for the first time. My printer will be here tomorrow (Pixma Pro 100) and I started looking into calibrating my monitor after I was told how important it is. So I came across this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Spyder4EXPRESS&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=
and wondered if it was any good. I mean there are some that are 3 times the price but I just want something that works and is simple like me. lol I don't know anything about this so I don't even know what to ask other then wil this work okay? Help!!!

 
Hi

If you only have one monitor/graphics card then the Express should do a good job, and actually the only difference between the Express/Pro and Elite versions is the software supplied and the colour of the case on the express unit.

For single monitor calibration it will work fine, and be much better than nothing. Spending more gets more features and options but probably will go no better basic calibration.

After all to start with you want something that will do a good calibration, playing with it comes much later.

Paul
 
Steve T said:
http://www.xrite.com/documents/literature/en/L11-176_Guide_to_CM_en.pdf:)

Steve.
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I'm not sure how posting a link to that PDF helps Shayne to be honest. He was asking if the Spyder 4 Express was any good for ensuring his prints are accurate. How does a document explaining what colour management is helpful?

@shaylou

Shayne. The Spyder4 will profile your screen. It's not the best out there, as the software for the express is a little basic, but it will work for a single monitor. However, it will only profile your monitor, and this is no guarantee that what you see on the screen will match what comes out of your printer. It helps, as you have the confidence to know that what is on your screen is correct, so when your prints don't match, at least you know it's not your monitor that's to blame, but it won't ensure that your prints WILL be accurate.

You may get lucky and things will print fine for you, but it's rare that what comes out of the printer will always match your screen.

Ideally, to ensure a "What you see is what you get" workflow you also need to calibrate your print media as well. The Spyder 4 can not do that. It only calibrates the screen.

However... if you can stretch your budget to the Color Munki Design (not display) then you can profile both.



Paul-H said:
Hi

If you only have one monitor/graphics card then the Express should do a good job, and actually the only difference between the Express/Pro and Elite versions is the software supplied and the colour of the case on the express unit.

For single monitor calibration it will work fine, and be much better than nothing. Spending more gets more features and options but probably will go no better basic calibration.

After all to start with you want something that will do a good calibration, playing with it comes much later.

Paul
Click to expand...


It won't print profile though.
 
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I really no nothing about this. Are you saying that there is software that will calibrate the monitor and the printer together so that what I see on screen is what prints? If so that sounds like shat I thought I was getting. I didn't know that the printer could be off as well. Is that what you are saying.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I'm not sure how posting a link to that PDF helps Shayne to be honest. He was asking if the Spyder 4 Express was any good for ensuring his prints are accurate. How does a document explaining what colour management is helpful?

@shaylou

Shayne. The Spyder4 will profile your screen. It's not the best out there, as the software for the express is a little basic, but it will work for a single monitor. However, it will only profile your monitor, and this is no guarantee that what you see on the screen will match what comes out of your printer. It helps, as you have the confidence to know that what is on your screen is correct, so when your prints don't match, at least you know it's not your monitor that's to blame, but it won't ensure that your prints WILL be accurate.

You may get lucky and things will print fine for you, but it's rare that what comes out of the printer will always match your screen.

Ideally, to ensure a "What you see is what you get" workflow you also need to calibrate your print media as well. The Spyder 4 can not do that. It only calibrates the screen.

However... if you can stretch your budget to the Color Munki Design (not display) then you can profile both.






It won't print profile though.
Click to expand...


would u post a link to the colour monkey as im interested in getting one myself

cheers

mat
 
You are either very lucky or not fussy if by default your printed output matches what you see on the display. These days a decent display is far more accurate than displays were many years ago. When I calibrate my Dell IPS display I see only a small change, nothing drastic. Most important is to have a printer profile for each paper type you use. Some paper manufacturers have downloadable profiles. These are better than none but far from perfect. You then have two options, buy a much more expensive device that calibrates your display and also produces printer profiles, or just calibrate the display and have printer profiles produced for you. You would then with colour management turned off print typically a 1024 patch test sheet from a file supplied by the profiler, post it back and they email you the printer profile. Most of the time it's OK, sometimes not. I use a Spyder4 Elite which additionally calibrates a projector, they can look awful unless calibrated. I'm happy with it, but have never compared it to anything else.

At the end of the day, if you have you display calibrated and printer profiles you have consistency. If you calibrate for daylight then display your prints under fluorescent lighting they will not be as on your display. If they are displayed in a daylight display box for competitions all the better.
 
shaylou said:
I really no nothing about this. Are you saying that there is software that will calibrate the monitor and the printer together so that what I see on screen is what prints? If so that sounds like shat I thought I was getting. I didn't know that the printer could be off as well. Is that what you are saying.
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Yes. The Spyder will calibrate your screen, so that will be accurate. That's a good thing, yes, but only in as much as you have confidence that if you send an image to a professional printers (who will also have calibrated gear) you can be confident that what was on your screen is accurate, but if you print your own, then it's no guarantee that what comes out of your printer will be accurate, as the printer is not colour managed. The Color Munki Design will profile your printer (actually.. you're profiling your paper and ink - if you change either to another brand, you need to create a new profile). The software generates a colour swatch, which you print, you then use the device to measure the actual colours on the paper, and creates a printer ICC profile based on the difference between what the swatches SHOULD be and what they ARE, so in effect, it corrects the printed output. It's the same principle as calibrating a monitor.

There's also more to printing that just pressing print. You need to print from a colour managed application such as photoshop, and make sure Photoshop is managing the colours, then you select the print profile you created using the Color Munki (or whatever device you use).


inyourface said:
would u post a link to the colour monkey as im interested in getting one myself

cheers

mat
Click to expand...


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=color munki design :)



shaylou said:
I thought I read somewhere that this printer has paper profiles already in it so all you had to do is choose. I'm not sure about that but it sounds familiar.
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Most decent printers will come with a "off the shelf profile" yes... and using that WILL massively improve the situation, but it will only be for a certain type of paper and ink. Try that first if you can download a profile from the printer manufacturer. If you need help installing it, or using it, please PM me. Happy to help.
 
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@shaylou

There was a bit missing from my post... see edited above.


Don't worry! Try printing first... see if you're happy with it. If not... just PM me Shayne. This probably sounds more scary than it actually is. You may not NEED to do anything yet :)
 
Shane
First of all calibrating your monitor isn't rocket science. All you need to do is find the correct device for your needs. There are several out there at reasonable prices, I've just noticed the ColorMunki Smile, which seems to be a simple to use device. ( Here's the link to Colour Confidence who list it on there web site http://shop.colourconfidence.com/product.php/4407/x-rite-colormunki-smile) . I've not used it so can't comment on how good it is, but I use other X-Rite devices and they are fine. If in doubt give Colour Confidence a ring and talk to them. I've dealt with them in the past and found their advice very good.

The calibration process is simple enough, usually all you have to do is follow the on screen instructions. it really is that simple.

Don't worry about printer calibration and profiling. you can think about that later if you have to.

As Dave has suggested, try printing first. It may work out fine for you.
 
Thank you for the boost of confidence. I really feel like I need that about now. I'm very mechanical on one hand but completely computer illiterate on the other hand. I see two problems. First I am a perfectionist so I will not be happy unless I know that I am doing this the best way it can be done. Second I really don't like to spend money on something and then end up upgrading later and that seems like a very good possibility. My gut tells me I won't be happy unless I spend all that money for the best calibrating tool to get the best possible print.

I have really worked hard to be the best photographer that I can possibly be and continue to work hard every day. That is why this is so important to me. I will be making my portfolio with this printer and this will showcase my work as I go forward in becoming a pro. I hope I don't sound too picky or absurd in any way. I do appreciate everyone's help thank you.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I'm not sure how posting a link to that PDF helps Shayne to be honest. He was asking if the Spyder 4 Express was any good for ensuring his prints are accurate. How does a document explaining what colour management is helpful?

@shaylou

Shayne. The Spyder4 will profile your screen. It's not the best out there, as the software for the express is a little basic, but it will work for a single monitor. However, it will only profile your monitor, and this is no guarantee that what you see on the screen will match what comes out of your printer. It helps, as you have the confidence to know that what is on your screen is correct, so when your prints don't match, at least you know it's not your monitor that's to blame, but it won't ensure that your prints WILL be accurate.

You may get lucky and things will print fine for you, but it's rare that what comes out of the printer will always match your screen.

Ideally, to ensure a "What you see is what you get" workflow you also need to calibrate your print media as well. The Spyder 4 can not do that. It only calibrates the screen.

However... if you can stretch your budget to the Color Munki Design (not display) then you can profile both.






It won't print profile though.
Click to expand...

The op was not asking for a print profiling solution though was he, he asked a question about a specific bit of hardware and that was what I was answering, as I suspect you knew full well.

Bye
 
Anyway back on topic

For accuracy you do need as said above a fully profiled system and there are many different ways to acheve this.

With my own system I am using a Spyder4Elite for the Monitor and either Profile Prism or the Spyder4print device.

I personally now prefer Profile Prism as it is so much quicker than the Spyder4Print and is producing profiles that are every bit as accurate.

End of the day it's your money choose the best option you can afford and I am sure it will give you better results than what you have at the moment.

Paul
 
Paul-H said:
Anyway back on topic

For accuracy you do need as said above a fully profiled system and there are many different ways to acheve this.

With my own system I am using a Spyder4Elite for the Monitor and either Profile Prism or the Spyder4print device.

I personally now prefer Profile Prism as it is so much quicker than the Spyder4Print and is producing profiles that are every bit as accurate.

End of the day it's your money choose the best option you can afford and I am sure it will give you better results than what you have at the moment.

Paul
Click to expand...

That's great but I have no idea what it means lol. You see I don't know anything about this stuff. I came here to get incite but I should remind everyone to talk with small words because I do not know the terminology at all.
 
Paul-H said:
The op was not asking for a print profiling solution though was he, he asked a question about a specific bit of hardware and that was what I was answering, as I suspect you knew full well.

Bye
Click to expand...


Hmmm... It's the WHY he was asking though.

shaylou said:
Hi all I am getting into printing my pictures for the first time. My printer will be here tomorrow (Pixma Pro 100) and I started looking into calibrating my monitor after I was told how important it is.
Click to expand...

Shayne was under the impression a calibrated monitor is what you need for perfect prints. While helpful, this is not the case.
 
Shayne

Your right to buy the quality, if you can afford it. . You've got a couple of choices.

First just get a good calibration device for your monitor. Spyders are good so are X-Rite devices. These will calibrate your monitor just fine.

Now the printer. Why do you need to calibrate and profile it. Well the printer isn't your monitor. It has different characteristics. these characteristics are made up the printer, ink, and paper. Now most printers print OK provided you are using the manufacturers product. The manufacturer has set up the machine knowing the characteristics of the products its sells. Now if you change the ink or paper away from Canon in this case you may get some different results. This is because the the new paper or ink has different characteristics. Profiling the machine will take these new differences into account. Now you don't need to know how to profile . There are several companies out there that will for a small fee produce profiles for you. OK it's not instant but usually takes a few days. ( You have to send then printed test images by post. ) Permajet will do this for you it costs about £30 for a book of vouchers for 5 custom paper profiles. It's also free if you use Pemajet papers. Also some paper manufacturers will supply ( via their web site) free canned or standard profiles made for a range of printers

In your position I'd opt for a good monitor profiling device.I don't think you really need to go to the length of getting one that will do both the monitor and profile your printer as it's relatively inexpensive to get ones made if you need to.

If after using your printer you feel you need to calibrate the monitor Look at those that will just calibrate the monitor, leave the paper profiling to one side for the time being. I think trying to do many things at once can get confusing.

As I said earlier this isn't rocket science but I would suggest one step at a time. Get the printer unpacked and working first then see how it goes.
 
Well I got it today and got it up and running. The calibration is way off. All my picks look way to dark. I tried to go into Lightroom and adjust the exposure way up but that just left with other issues. I will try to calibrate it tomorrow.
 
Also Soft Proofing is another useful tool to consider, Because what you see on a backlit screen is different to what is on paper. That's why your images can look darker. You can find soft proofing in Lightroom as well as photoshop and you can also set your printer profile and paper as well.

Soft Proofing helps with any adjustments to your image, so what you see is what you get on paper, Like colour gamut as well as any lightning or darkening which it may need.
 
shaylou said:
Well I got it today and got it up and running. The calibration is way off. All my picks look way to dark. I tried to go into Lightroom and adjust the exposure way up but that just left with other issues. I will try to calibrate it tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Hang on. What's dark? What did you get today? The printer or the calibrator?

If your images look dark after calibrating the monitor, then yes, your images are too dark (your screen was too bright pre-calibration).

How did you calibrate though? How bright is your screen now? Does it give you any information as to how bright it is after calibration? You can calibrate a monitor any brightness you like, it doesn't make it right. You have to calibrate to a level appropriate for your viewing conditions. If you calibrated to 150cd/m2 and then work in a dark room, that's way too bright. If you calibrated to 80cd/m2 and then work in a very brightly lit room, or during the day with sunlight streaming in, then it will be too dark. You need to be consistent, and you need a controlled environment.
 
If you go into the print module in Lightroom you'll see at the bottom a slider to adjust print brightness and contrast. You could use these to get the print density right.

To get prints that are too dark is not an uncommon problem I would say the 90% of monitors come out of the box way too bright. All my Mac's have had to have the brightness level dropped by 50% to get them to optimal levels.

If you still have a problem then a calibration device is essential. This will allow you to get optimum brightness whilst maintaining correct calibration.
 
I'm having a blast guys! Thanks for all the useful info. I played with my laptop calibration today and it helped a lot. The dark problem all but went away but i still see a pretty big difference between thee print and the display. I'm going to buy the calibrating software today but really don't know if I should go with the 250 u.s dollar version or the much better 450 dollar version. I hate the idea of buying something and having regret that I should of bought the other one, not to mention how much of a perfectionist that I am.

Keep in mind I am not good at computer things so I am wondering if I will be able to use the more expensive software to it's full potential or will I end up only scratching the surface of it's power and therefore wasting money on something I won't end up using. My gut tells me I will end up learning it as time goes on. I don't know and I am getting ready to go buy one or the other. I hope you guys are awake and can help. lol

Thanks again for all your help. :ty:

:canon::exit:
 
Pookeyhead said:
I'm not sure how posting a link to that PDF helps Shayne to be honest. He was asking if the Spyder 4 Express was any good for ensuring his prints are accurate. How does a document explaining what colour management is helpful?



Because reading that well prepared guide written by and expert is an excellent first step for a begginer, who is looking for accurate colour work, to start with.

Accurate image colours require a completly accurate colour managed workflow from camera to printer, is that wrong??

Steve
Click to expand...
 
shaylou said:
I ended up with the color munki display. I really had no idea which one to get but this one seems to be the middle of the road one so I think it will work.
Click to expand...


That can#'t profile your printer/media though... that's just a monitor calibrator. You know that, right?
 
Pookeyhead said:
That can#'t profile your printer/media though... that's just a monitor calibrator. You know that, right?
Click to expand...

So is this pretty useless to me? I thought if I profiled my monitor I would be much closer to being accurate. I am pretty sure I can not exchange this sense I already used it. Dang it. Is the only software that does the best job the 450 colormunki?
 
Welcome to monkeys tea party that is badly explained colour management:)
 
shaylou said:
I am not sure that I understand what you mean.
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Just someone who's contributing nothing but putting a link up, criticising those that are helping you. Don't worry about it.

shaylou said:
So is this pretty useless to me? I thought if I profiled my monitor I would be much closer to being accurate. I am pretty sure I can not exchange this sense I already used it. Dang it. Is the only software that does the best job the 450 colormunki?
Click to expand...

No it's not useless. It's important to know that what you see is accurate, so having a calibrated monitor is always a good thing. It just will not calibrate your print media, which is why I suggested the Color Munki Design in post #9. The slightly cheaper Color Munki Photo can print profile too.


Which have you bought? Display, Design, or Photo? There's a few versions of Color Munki. Design and Photo can profile print media... display is just for monitors.

This is Display
http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?id=1513&catid=149&action=overview

This is Photo
http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?id=1115

This is Design
http://www.colormunki.com/product/show?is_designer_type=true

Photo and Design are the only ones in the color munki range that can profile print media. Photo is a little cheaper usually, but both Design and Photo are an all in one solution for monitor and media profiling. Either Photo or Design is what you want for print profiling as well.


Try printing first though, as it may not be far out as you think and as the Photo and Design are much more expensive, it's worth seeing what's what first.... also, most printer manufacturers usually have off the shelf profiles you can download. There's a webpage for Canon ICC profiles for the Pixma100 here.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/3rd_party_papers

This is for third party papers. Each profile is for a specific paper type, and will only be accurate when using Canon inks. There will be a profile available for Canon papers too somewhere on the website as well... but I can't find the link.

Download the profiles you need, and (Windows) either right click and select install, or manually copy it to C:\Windows\system32\spool\drivers\color

Then when you print, print from Photoshop.. NOT from Windows or the Printer's own software, and make sure you do NOT let the printer manage the colours, but instead use the ICC profiles you just installed from the drop down menu that appears after selecting "Photoshop manages colors".

awaZZIU.jpg


The exact settings vary from printer to printer. My main photo printer is not networked so can't access it from here, so this is what I get with my crappy office printer, but there will always be the main important things that I have highlighted in red. Never let the printer manage colours, and always select the correct profile for the paper and inks being used, and have the rendering intent settings set to "Perceptual".. which I forgot to do in the quick screen grab above.

If printing from Lightroom, there will also be an option to select whether the printer manages colour or not.. and again, do not use this option.. instead select "other" and choose the correct profile for your media from the list.

Vloi8ph.jpg
 
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Steve T said:
Thats better:)
Click to expand...

I'm not doing this for your approval. Feel free to contribute any time you like instead of making sarcastic comments.
 
Thanks for all that great info. It's going to take me a while to get though it. At this point I really don't even know enough to ask intelligent questions. I haven't figured out how to download paper profiles yet. I just picked one from the software. I did realize today that you can print from either Lightroom or the add on tool that comes with the munki software. I don't know if there is a difference or if it even matters. I did both but ended back at the munki add on. I did make some of the adjustments in Lightroom that you told me about. 16 bit or something that I can't recall right now and a couple other things. I was wondering what I set the ppi at in Lightroom. I cranked it up to 600 and got some sort of warning that I couldn't figure out and forgot about it till now. I started making virtual copies of my pics and that way I could compare adjustments. It has taken me around 4 tries to get it the way I like it but I'm sure I can cut that in half with some practice. But the only thing that is bothering me is if I were to get the expensive software that calibrates the printer would it just be push print and all would be good? I might be wrong but I feel like I am giving up some color quality with trying to compensate for the printer. Maybe it's because I haven't nailed it in completely but that is in the back of my head at this point.

Thanks for all the help I wouldn't be able to remotely understand this without it.
 
ppi dictates how large the print will be. I'd print from Photoshop if you have it, as the document size handling is better. First step is to resize the image to exactly the size you want. If you want A4, then use image/Image size and set 29.7cm x 21cm @ 300ppi.

That will then print exactly the right size.... then just set Photoshop's print dialogue as I showed in post #35.

Do you have photoshop?

It sounds to me like jumping right in and spending a few hundred dollars on media profiling may be a bit too much for you right now. Get used to the idea of sizing and preparing images for print first, and using the off the shelf profiles available for your printer and paper/ink.


This may help

 
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