ND Grads. Which Ones?

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danza

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'Lo all.

I will have a few quid knocking around after Christmas and as I don't have any ND Grads or a filter holder, I need to pick some up. I want cheapness if poss, but not at the expense of quality.

I don't mind buying a cheapo Kood 'P' size holder and adaptor (I guess it's P size I want), but as for filters, the cheapest I can find are those by Cokin. Any other cheaper brands seem to be ND grad grey, which iirc can leave colour casts over images. I'm finding it difficult justifying £13 on a bit of plastic for some reason, which seems to be the cost of the Cokin range per filter.

Any ideas?
 
Well I believe Cokin are a good fair to middling ground as a brand of filters. Cheap enough to buy and not at the expense of quality.
If you want quality, then you're looking at the Lee range of filters, but unfortunately they don't come cheap.

For Cokins, You will need either the A or the P size...I think A goes up to 60mm or so...Anything above that and you're going to need the P size.
I'm planning on buying exactly the same as you very soon, and have the same concerns (cost and quality).
I don't have any lenses at the moment that require the P size, but I will be getting them to allow for future lens upgrades.

I'd personally go for the Cokin. They are what alot of people use (unless, as I say, they're shelling out and going for the expensive Lee brand).
 
I just brought cokin P holder and 77m adapter with a P121 (3 stop) ND Grad for about £33. I wanted to try out ND grads and I thought I would go cheap to see if I'd like using them or not.

I went to Snowdonia yesterday to try it out. The weather wasn't great and the mountains were in mist. The light wasn't good and the dull colours not very photogenic but a perfect oppotunity to test my ND grad.

What can I say. I don't know how I did without before for landscape shots. There were always shots I wouldn't even bother trying before for fear of the sky being burnt out or for the opposite with the land. Now I can try any and they look superb. Without have to balance exposure between sky and land means both are properly exposed and the colours and contrast are so much better. I have tried multiple exposures and used Photoshop to mis them before now but they are a pain in the arse to do and of coarse more time is spent than necessary processing them. Also for some reason they just didn't look quite right after.

As far as Cokin are concerd well I am well happy with the equipment and the results. Who knows when I get better using them I may see downfalls but for now I am well happy. I am thinking of getting the 2 stop next.

Go for the Cokin. £30 ain't gonna break the bank to at least try.
 
And thats the sort of response that convinces me I could do with a set, rather than not.
 
I've heard that Cokin grads have a tint/colour cast to them and so aren't truely neutral, but in the day and age of photoshop correcting it shouldn't be a big problem. On the other hand Lee and Hitech filters are neutral from what i've heard, the hitechs being cheaper (set of 3 are £30) and come in the Cokin P series size.

I'm actually thinking of getting the Cokin P adapter and holder paired with hitech grads myself :) The question is soft or hard!! lol :thinking:
 
I bought the starter set of Lee filters from Whytes this year and think they are ab-fab! Nobody ever seems to know when they are used and no question about colour casts. Seems expensive but is nothing for what they do!


EDIT: I have the .6 and .9 ND hard grad and a .9ND. I can use use both .9ND filters to cover entire lens and get some looooong exposures! :)
 
I have the Lee filters 9ND, 6ND & 3ND both hard and soft.......expensive but I can't fault them and I don't hesitate recommending them :thumbs:
 
I too have heard the Cokin filters introduce a slight colour cast, so i've gone for a Cokin holder and a set of soft ND Hitech filters.
Rumours are the Hitechs are made in the same factory as Lee ...
 
HIMUPNORTH said:
I bought the starter set of Lee filters from Whytes this year and think they are ab-fab! Nobody ever seems to know when they are used and no question about colour casts. Seems expensive but is nothing for what they do!


EDIT: I have the .6 and .9 ND hard grad and a .9ND. I can use use both .9ND filters to cover entire lens and get some looooong exposures! :)
Click to expand...

P-E said:
I have the Lee filters 9ND, 6ND & 3ND both hard and soft.......expensive but I can't fault them and I don't hesitate recommending them :thumbs:
Click to expand...

I'm thinking this is my next serious investment, since I'm a landscape kinda guy ;) where did you get your's from?
 
Just bought a Cokin P-holder and 77mm ring adapter (ebay for around £18 for both). Waiting on my HiTech ND Grad (soft) set now. Looking forward to using them
 
Thanks for the links guys!
 
If you don't feel that it's worth spending the extra dosh on the Lee stuff and it is alot of extra, then the cokin stuff is pretty decent for the money.

I used Cokin for a long while before moving over to Lee and whilst there is a detectable difference in the image quality, by far the largest difference I noticed using Lee is that I'm always terrified of scratching them. More often than not if you're shooting landscape you'll be using them in fairly inhospitable places, halfway up a waterfall or some other daft thing and it's one more peice of bloody expensive kit to try and keep safe and dry.
 
Col_M said:
I've heard that Cokin grads have a tint/colour cast to them and so aren't truely neutral, but in the day and age of photoshop correcting it shouldn't be a big problem.
Click to expand...

Also in the Photoshop era if you bracket shots you can blend separate exposures for the ground and sky. With a layer mask you can have a virtual grad filter that way.

Michael.
 
So why bother with filters in the first place then ... especially expensive non-scratch resistant ones ... :thinking:

Is it better ... really ... or is it something else clinging onto 'old ways' before it finally gives way to technology ... :shrug:

I ask as someone who has never used filters ... and certainly am not proficient enough in CS2 to use the alternative ... ;)





:p
 
Venomator said:
So why bother with filters in the first place then ... especially expensive non-scratch resistant ones ... :thinking:

Is it better ... really ... or is it something else clinging onto 'old ways' before it finally gives way to technology ... :shrug:

I ask as someone who has never used filters ... and certainly am not proficient enough in CS2 to use the alternative ... ;)





:p
Click to expand...


It's just a pain in the bum doing multiple exposures for every shot then having to process them later. They never look quite as good either. I think it maybe something to do with the right exposure mix between the 2 images. You have the ground to well exposed and the sky too well exposed. When you put them together it just doesn't look real. You can mess about for ages trying to balance them and still they look naff.

Put it this way I did a lot of multiple exposure shots and was never very happy with the results after PP. I buy a cheap Cokin 3 stop and I am bowled over by the results. Colours and contrast jump out at you.

Not only that it's suprisingly quick and easy to setup. Even adjusting the filter is enjoyable.
 
Thanx Sie ... that is a very concise and helpful response and much appreciated ... cheers ... :thumbs:

:thankyou:








:p
 
Ven raises a good point (you feeling OK mate? :p). After consideration, and use, I feel you are still better to get as much done "in camera" as possible. And sometimes a blend is not always practical. I have even used grad hand held!

I accept points about Lee's size and sensitivity but they are so good that the extra effort will be worth it.

Just my opinion though.
 
Venomator said:
So why bother with filters in the first place then ... especially expensive non-scratch resistant ones ... :thinking:

Is it better ... really ... or is it something else clinging onto 'old ways' before it finally gives way to technology ... :shrug:

I ask as someone who has never used filters ... and certainly am not proficient enough in CS2 to use the alternative ... ;)





:p
Click to expand...

There is no substitute for grad filters if you are dealing with subjects that move, eg a boat bobbing on a sea with the mast bisecting the horizon, no 2 exposures will have the mast in the same position so it's best to do it in one exposure with grads :D It's quicker too if you ask me, slide in and align a filter compared to 10-20 mins work in photoshop (well for me i'm not a photoshop whizz), i'd go for filters thanks ;)
 
Oi HuN ... never better ... are you ... almost a compliment, that is ... ;p

But damn ... too late now my order for xmas went in to Santa Claws (Jill) ages ago ... really want to try this filter malarkey out now after reading this lot ... :D





:p
 
Venomator said:
Thanx Sie ... that is a very concise and helpful response and much appreciated ... cheers ... :thumbs:

:thankyou:


:p
Click to expand...

No probs...I asked the same questions before I decided to get some ;)

I forgot to mention I found that on my 17-40L on 1.6 crop camera if I pushed the filter in far enough the whole ND part filled the view and therefore acting as a full ND. Waterfall shots ensued :)
 
Venomator said:
Is it better ... really ... or is it something else clinging onto 'old ways' before it finally gives way to technology ... :shrug:
Click to expand...

It is not really better or worse, just different. Personally I would rather use filters and try to get things right in camera where you can see how it effects the scene rather than hoping it will all work out in the end. As Sie says it can look unnatural when you mix two different exposures but other times it can look better.

I am not that good with Photoshop either but I have played around with blending exposures and was impressed by the results.

The way I did it was to copy the darker image into the lighter one as a layer. On the light image select all and copy to the clipboard. Then add a layer mask to the darker image layer, paste the light image to this and invert it. Finally just use the opacity slider to get the desired result. That is more advanced than using an ND grad too, it would be like buying a soft grad that has a pattern exactly matching your scene!

Michael.
 
Nice post mij. I have used that technique and as I cannot make multiple copies for my aerial shots I also merge two images from one RAW. One an "overexposed" shot and the other "underexposed".

Usually in my shots I have either the sky or the ground right but not both so need to balance. A quick fix to slightly blown skies is to duplicate your background change the top layer to a "multiply" layer, add a gradient mask to leave effect in sky only and achieve a smooth blend then adjust opacity to suit.
 
All this debate about filters really make me happy that I could not buy a P series holder to use my 10 + Cokin filters (ND's and other grads):bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

The supply chain stinks... I have ordered a P holder ages ago...:bang:

Really don't know what to do now but will follow this debate as I can appreciate both sides of the argument:wave:
 
Funnily enough I was after some ND grads yesterday and after much research it looks like Hitech ones give the best quality/value for money. They're made from optical resin which doesn't rub off and fit the Cokin P system.

They come in 1/2/3 stop (0.3/0.6/0/9) hard and soft kits for £30 from here.

The Cokin's apparently aren't too neutral (ie they leave a colour cast).

http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech.html

I really should read the full thread...I see these have already been mentioned!
 
Anton Roland said:
All this debate about filters really make me happy that I could not buy a P series holder to use my 10 + Cokin filters (ND's and other grads):bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

The supply chain stinks... I have ordered a P holder ages ago...:bang:
Click to expand...

I ordered a P series wide angle holder, adapter ring, circ polariser, ND grad and a ND(4) filter before Christmas.

Still waiting on the circ polariser and ND(4) filter though and those were the two i wanted the most :'( Hopefully they will be in stock soon, s'pose i'll just have to wait until then.
 
Quite frustrating right??

Nothing against the brand but it is the &^$#& shops that don't carry stock and don't worry to order in quantity...

To the other extreme I got some complete bargains a while back...

Cokin P series filters on a clearance sale... ND2, ND4, ND8, ND4 GRAD, CP, Redhancer Polarizer, Grad Tobacco and 2 or 3 more for the ZA Rand value of less than 1 pound each.

Now if only I can get a HOLDER I can start using them...:bang: :bang: :bang:
 
Anton Roland said:
Quite frustrating right??

Nothing against the brand but it is the &^$#& shops that don't carry stock and don't worry to order in quantity...
Click to expand...

I believe that the problem with the filters is actually Cokin themselves who have had to introduce a new manufacturing process. No idea why you should be having a problem getting hold of a holder though :thinking:
 
:help: Having read this thread and others on the same subject I’m nearly ready to splash out with some of my Christmas money. My shopping list is:- Hightech ND grads kit £45.24 including £8.50 postage from Teamwork + Cokin circular polarising filter £62.49 From Warehouse express. Two questions; has anyone used the high-tech filters with a cokin P holder? The advert says they fit, but it also says they are 85mm whilst cokin say their holder is 84mm; not much I know just double checking.
Also does anyone know if these items are available anywhere cheaper? I’ve looked at all the usual places, the postage from teamwork is a bit steep and £58 for the circ pol is more than I was expecting but they seem to be the only retailers with it in stock :thankyou:
 
:woot: Just got cokin P164 circ. pol. off ebay for £50 inc. pp
Now to find another Hightech stockist with cheaper pp. Anyone??

Mike
 
I ordered mine from teamwork 14th Dec. got an email a day or so later saying they were out of stock until possibly the 20th Dec... not heard anything since :/
 
Magellan said:
has anyone used the high-tech filters with a cokin P holder? The advert says they fit, but it also says they are 85mm whilst cokin say their holder is 84mm; not much I know just double checking.
Click to expand...

They fit fine, a little tight, but the P holder has a little give in it anyway.


I havn't found anywhere else other tham teamworks that sells them.

I ordered mine in early december from teamworks, (well my wife did as they were a xmas pressie), she got an order confirmation email straight away but nothing arrived. She contacted them on the 20th Dec and it turns out they never recieved the order, "problems with the server" apparently, anyway they arrived the next day by special delivery which was nice.
 
You can always get Kood filters from 7dayshop for very good money (as is generally the case with their prices)
 
Milestone said:
I ordered mine in early december from teamworks, (well my wife did as they were a xmas pressie), she got an order confirmation email straight away but nothing arrived. She contacted them on the 20th Dec and it turns out they never recieved the order, "problems with the server" apparently, anyway they arrived the next day by special delivery which was nice.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, after I emailed them a couple of days ago.... I come home to find postie has tried to deliver something... which was most definitely the hitechs :D

I reckon they 'forgot' or had 'server issues' ;)
 
I also use the Hitech filters with Cokin P and agree they are a little tight. I also use a sawn down Kood holder for my 10-20mm lens but still get a little vignetting between 10-12 mm.

I dumped the original Cokin ND grads due to the magenta casts I was getting.

So I was thinking of getting a set of Lee filters to supplement - do the Cokin adapter rings fit the Lee holders or will I have to shell out a mini fortune again for Lee adapter rings?

I figure the larger 100mm Lee filters will be better for the wide angle and it then gives us the Hitech as a spare set as my wife and I are starting to fight over the ND grads now, lol. Do you think this is a good solution?

cheers

ps I paid teamworks extra to get the filters delivered sooner but they didn't - I had to chase them up - and they promised to refund the postage back on my switch card which they didn't. Their service seemed quite shabby.
 
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