ND Filters

[jo30]

I'm off to America next week and have decided it might be good to get some ND filters for some landscape pictures I'd like to take. Problem is I'm new to filters and whilst I'm pretty sure I understand what and why they're used, it's which ones to get.

Can anyone recommend any? I think I've decided on getting the type that you attach the mount onto the lens rather than the screw in type as I am planning on changing my camera soon and the new lenses will be a bigger diameter, thought process being that I buy a new mount and can use the same filters although please correct me if I am wrong with this?

Also when the description of the filer says ND4/ND8 or x4/x2 I guess these are different strengths/shades of the glass but what does it actually mean?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Jo

 

[Alastair]

Also when the description of the filer says ND4/ND8 or x4/x2 I guess these are different strengths/shades of the glass but what does it actually mean?

Every manufacturer seems to use their own way of describing how many stops of light the filter will block - and how many stops you'll need to compensate in the exposure to account for the filter - and whilst there's no particular reason why they should all use different systems, each has their own logic.

Taking the ND4, ND8, etc. system. This is based on powers of 2, and mathematically logical when you consider that every stop is a halving of the light passing through the filter.
ND2 = 1 stop (2^1 = 2)
ND4 = 2 stop (2^2 = 2x2 = 4)
ND8 = 3 stop (2^3 = 2x2x2 =8)
ND16 = 4 stop (2^4 = 2x2x2x2 = 16)

It's best to refer to the manufacturer for their description of how their designations relate back to stops. You'll need to have a rough idea of the effect you want to achieve in order to pick out the right strength - how much you want to increase exposures by. An ND4 and an ND8 would make aflexible pair of filters, and could be stacked for a combined 5 stop ND filter (5 stop = ND32, 4x8 = 32). Are you packing a tripod or travel tripod?

For travelling, if you only want to use ND filters (and not graduated ND filters) I'd suggest buying screw-in round filters larger than your current lenses (so sized for the lenses you plan on buying) and using a step-up ring that allows the filter to be used on a smaller threaded lens. And get a cheap 3-way rubber lens hood that fits the larger thread size of your filters. I just find the screw-in ones more compact when travelling.

Alternately, the slot-in filters are made by a number of manufacturers - Cokin, High-Tech, Lee - and in a number of different sizes using different materials. Filter size can be critical and that will depend what camera/lenses you'll be using. If your planning on using lenses with a 77mm filter you really need to be using the 100mm filters rather than 80mm filters. With some cameras you may want to keep the filter size as small as you can get away with to avoid obstructing viewfinder. You don't say what camera, what lenses or give filter diameters so it's difficult to be more precise with recommendations. Budget also plays a large factor - the larger and better quality filters get expensive quickly.

 

[jo30]

Every manufacturer seems to use their own way of describing how many stops of light the filter will block - and how many stops you'll need to compensate in the exposure to account for the filter - and whilst there's no particular reason why they should all use different systems, each has their own logic.

Taking the ND4, ND8, etc. system. This is based on powers of 2, and mathematically logical when you consider that every stop is a halving of the light passing through the filter.
ND2 = 1 stop (2^1 = 2)
ND4 = 2 stop (2^2 = 2x2 = 4)
ND8 = 3 stop (2^3 = 2x2x2 =8)
ND16 = 4 stop (2^4 = 2x2x2x2 = 16)

It's best to refer to the manufacturer for their description of how their designations relate back to stops. You'll need to have a rough idea of the effect you want to achieve in order to pick out the right strength - how much you want to increase exposures by. An ND4 and an ND8 would make aflexible pair of filters, and could be stacked for a combined 5 stop ND filter (5 stop = ND32, 4x8 = 32). Are you packing a tripod or travel tripod?

For travelling, if you only want to use ND filters (and not graduated ND filters) I'd suggest buying screw-in round filters larger than your current lenses (so sized for the lenses you plan on buying) and using a step-up ring that allows the filter to be used on a smaller threaded lens. And get a cheap 3-way rubber lens hood that fits the larger thread size of your filters. I just find the screw-in ones more compact when travelling.

Alternately, the slot-in filters are made by a number of manufacturers - Cokin, High-Tech, Lee - and in a number of different sizes using different materials. Filter size can be critical and that will depend what camera/lenses you'll be using. If your planning on using lenses with a 77mm filter you really need to be using the 100mm filters rather than 80mm filters. With some cameras you may want to keep the filter size as small as you can get away with to avoid obstructing viewfinder. You don't say what camera, what lenses or give filter diameters so it's difficult to be more precise with recommendations. Budget also plays a large factor - the larger and better quality filters get expensive quickly.

Thank you Alastair. That's really helpful.
Yes I was planning on taking my tripod with me. The camera that I'm currently using is a Canon 500D, the lens is 58mm.
I didn't realise that that could be done with the screw in type, so that's definitely worth considering.
I understand about the budget, I haven't really got one in mind, I'm working on the theory 'buy cheap buy twice,' so don't mind spending some cash to get a decent set, but would like some recommendations of brands, types etc...
Thanks again!

 

[Alastair]

On the screw-in type, I have a few - some very cheap 7dayshop 77mm diameter NDs that are surprisingly good and don't show any noticeable colour cast even when shooting film, plus I have some smaller mid-range makes and of those the Tiffen Titanium are a good balance of quality and price.

I've used both the Cokin P and Hitech 100 slot-in filter systems, I much prefer the Hitechs - the build quality is just that bit better, and some Cokin filters do seem to have a slight cast (but remember that filters are tempting targets for fakes, I may have a couple of Cokin fakes in the kit bag that have skewed my perception). Unfortunately, whilst the 100mm systems are perfect for my larger film camera, they're a little too big for my Fuji.

With the Hitechs you'd be looking at c.£60 for the holder, plus c.£10 for the adapter ring, plus c.£90 for a set of three ND filters. That's for the 100mm set, if you went with the smaller 85mm set it's a lot cheaper - but if you later wanted to use them with an ultra-wide-angle lens you'd wish you'd gone for the 100mm (even the standard 100mm slot-in holders will usually vignette using a 10-20mm lens - there are alternative slim-fit holders for using ultra-wide lenses).

 

[Coyon]

Agree with everything Alastair said. Alternatives to the hitech kit are the Cokin z pro filter holder which is about £40 and kood 100mm filters which are about 3 for £50.
You don't say what you're actually trying to achieve with the filters?
Do you have a polarising filter already?

 

[expose4]

I'm off to America next week and have decided it might be good to get some ND filters for some landscape pictures I'd like to take. Problem is I'm new to filters and whilst I'm pretty sure I understand what and why they're used, it's which ones to get.

Can anyone recommend any? I think I've decided on getting the type that you attach the mount onto the lens rather than the screw in type as I am planning on changing my camera soon and the new lenses will be a bigger diameter, thought process being that I buy a new mount and can use the same filters although please correct me if I am wrong with this?

Also when the description of the filer says ND4/ND8 or x4/x2 I guess these are different strengths/shades of the glass but what does it actually mean?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Jo

Hi Jo30, I don't know where you live, but if its in the UK, there is the Photographic Show, running at the NEC in Birmingham and there is a company selling the Lee filters, and if you get them at the show there is a 10% discount, the stand is the Linhof Studio on stand E50-51. I have these filters and i think they are the best on the market.

 

[expose4]

I'm off to America next week and have decided it might be good to get some ND filters for some landscape pictures I'd like to take. Problem is I'm new to filters and whilst I'm pretty sure I understand what and why they're used, it's which ones to get.

Can anyone recommend any? I think I've decided on getting the type that you attach the mount onto the lens rather than the screw in type as I am planning on changing my camera soon and the new lenses will be a bigger diameter, thought process being that I buy a new mount and can use the same filters although please correct me if I am wrong with this?

Also when the description of the filer says ND4/ND8 or x4/x2 I guess these are different strengths/shades of the glass but what does it actually mean?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Jo

If you are going to use filters, the ones I would suggest are the ND grad .6 and .9, for balancing the image and also a Polarising filter. This is a link to the Lee filter site:http://www.leefilters.com/

 

[expose4]

Thank you Alastair. That's really helpful.
Yes I was planning on taking my tripod with me. The camera that I'm currently using is a Canon 500D, the lens is 58mm.
I didn't realise that that could be done with the screw in type, so that's definitely worth considering.
I understand about the budget, I haven't really got one in mind, I'm working on the theory 'buy cheap buy twice,' so don't mind spending some cash to get a decent set, but would like some recommendations of brands, types etc...
Thanks again!

Dont go for the screw type as they are far inferior to the slide in type, where you can adjust them to the image you are taking.

 

[HoppyUK]

I'm off to America next week and have decided it might be good to get some ND filters for some landscape pictures I'd like to take. Problem is I'm new to filters and whilst I'm pretty sure I understand what and why they're used, it's which ones to get.

Can anyone recommend any? I think I've decided on getting the type that you attach the mount onto the lens rather than the screw in type as I am planning on changing my camera soon and the new lenses will be a bigger diameter, thought process being that I buy a new mount and can use the same filters although please correct me if I am wrong with this?

Also when the description of the filer says ND4/ND8 or x4/x2 I guess these are different strengths/shades of the glass but what does it actually mean?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Jo

It's not clear what filters you want exactly. Some of the replies here are referring to straight ND filters (dark all over, used to lengthen the exposure time, usually to blur water) and some are referring to ND Grads (dark at the top, 'grad-ually' fading to clear at the bottom, used to darken bright skies). They're completely different.

Also, some filters are indexed by optical density, eg 0.3=1 stop, 0.6=2 stops, 0.9=3 stops etc.

 

[TareqPhoto]

I will give you the best advice, go with square/rectangular ND/GND filters, i have many filters and at the end i narrowed to few filters from 3 or 4 brands, but i all use those 4x4/4x5/4x6" filters now, i only use screw type for film when i shoot B&W where i don't need many lenses with GND, i use that screw as red/orange filter only, but even with that i can get 4x4" one.

With 100x100mm [4x4"] filters i can use on all lenses up to 95mm lens filter thread, just one filters holder and different adapter rings for different lenses filter sizes, believe me, with that route you will never look back to another filters.

I replaced most of my resin filters with glass, because resin even high quality has some issues over glass, scratches is a big issue, color cast with some brands is another, but with glass those issues are less almost none.

Good luck!

 

[jo30]

On the screw-in type, I have a few - some very cheap 7dayshop 77mm diameter NDs that are surprisingly good and don't show any noticeable colour cast even when shooting film, plus I have some smaller mid-range makes and of those the Tiffen Titanium are a good balance of quality and price.

I've used both the Cokin P and Hitech 100 slot-in filter systems, I much prefer the Hitechs - the build quality is just that bit better, and some Cokin filters do seem to have a slight cast (but remember that filters are tempting targets for fakes, I may have a couple of Cokin fakes in the kit bag that have skewed my perception). Unfortunately, whilst the 100mm systems are perfect for my larger film camera, they're a little too big for my Fuji.

With the Hitechs you'd be looking at c.£60 for the holder, plus c.£10 for the adapter ring, plus c.£90 for a set of three ND filters. That's for the 100mm set, if you went with the smaller 85mm set it's a lot cheaper - but if you later wanted to use them with an ultra-wide-angle lens you'd wish you'd gone for the 100mm (even the standard 100mm slot-in holders will usually vignette using a 10-20mm lens - there are alternative slim-fit holders for using ultra-wide lenses).

Agree with everything Alastair said. Alternatives to the hitech kit are the Cokin z pro filter holder which is about £40 and kood 100mm filters which are about 3 for £50.
You don't say what you're actually trying to achieve with the filters?
Do you have a polarising filter already?

Thank you both for this, will have a look at the ones you have suggested.

If you are going to use filters, the ones I would suggest are the ND grad .6 and .9, for balancing the image and also a Polarising filter. This is a link to the Lee filter site:http://www.leefilters.com/

Thank you I will look at this site.

It's not clear what filters you want exactly. Some of the replies here are referring to straight ND filters (dark all over, used to lengthen the exposure time, usually to blur water) and some are referring to ND Grads (dark at the top, 'grad-ually' fading to clear at the bottom, used to darken bright skies). They're completely different.

Also, some filters are indexed by optical density, eg 0.3=1 stop, 0.6=2 stops, 0.9=3 stops etc.

Thank you. I see, no I haven't got a polarising filer, but was going to include one with whatever I buy. I am aiming to get a decent photograph of the Golden Gate Bridge so I'm photographing both water and the sky. Because there's both I guess I need a some straight ND's for this (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

I will give you the best advice, go with square/rectangular ND/GND filters, i have many filters and at the end i narrowed to few filters from 3 or 4 brands, but i all use those 4x4/4x5/4x6" filters now, i only use screw type for film when i shoot B&W where i don't need many lenses with GND, i use that screw as red/orange filter only, but even with that i can get 4x4" one.

With 100x100mm [4x4"] filters i can use on all lenses up to 95mm lens filter thread, just one filters holder and different adapter rings for different lenses filter sizes, believe me, with that route you will never look back to another filters.

I replaced most of my resin filters with glass, because resin even high quality has some issues over glass, scratches is a big issue, color cast with some brands is another, but with glass those issues are less almost none.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice, will look into this. I think the general consensus so far is to buy bigger than my current lens, enough to fit my new lenses.

Thank you everyone.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Thank you both for this, will have a look at the ones you have suggested.



Thank you I will look at this site.



Thank you. I see, no I haven't got a polarising filer, but was going to include one with whatever I buy. I am aiming to get a decent photograph of the Golden Gate Bridge so I'm photographing both water and the sky. Because there's both I guess I need a some straight ND's for this (please correct me if I'm wrong)?


Thanks for the advice, will look into this. I think the general consensus so far is to buy bigger than my current lens, enough to fit my new lenses.

Thank you everyone.

Welcome!

This is the key or point, buy the filters once, so with 100x100 or longer you will never worry which lens to use with because they all almost smaller than 100mm anyway, NDs mostly are square so no effect if you place very center, but GND are longer, something in 100x120 or 100x150 or larger, try to go with glass even very expensive, because glass giving less color/damage issues than resin ones.

 

[jo30]

Any views on these? Price vs Quality?

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-lee-neutral-density-filter-set/p1010704#details

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-lee-foundation-kit/p1010393#details

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-lee-adaptor-ring-58mm-with-box-and-insert/p1010407

I presume then I would just have to get a new adapter ring with the correct size for my new lenses? Can this holder also be used with the graduated filters?

Any recommends on any other brands, if these aren't great?

Thanks for all advice...

Jo

 

[Coyon]

Nobody will dispute the quality of Lee stuff- though some of their pricing is kinda cheeky-that adapter ring in the nice shiny box is basically a black metal disc for £20. That said other brands aren't much cheaper.
Those filters are gel/resin filters- basically thin material in a frame. Quality should be fine but they're relatively delicate. I think they're like the coloured filters on the lights at the school disco

If you're mainly looking to shoot the bridge I think you'll find a polariser more useful than any of this other stuff.
As Hoppy said the neutral density (ND) filters you've picked out are used to increase exposure time- for effects like smoothing water or blurring out people and cars.
Graduated neutral density (GND) are useful for balancing the exposure- e.g bright sky and dark ground- but if you have something like a bridge or building or person that cuts across the light and dark area, you'll see the transition on them and it looks odd. I'd use the polariser for that sort of scene instead- if necessary with an ND to smooth the sea or blur out the cars.

 

[jo30]

Nobody will dispute the quality of Lee stuff- though some of their pricing is kinda cheeky-that adapter ring in the nice shiny box is basically a black metal disc for £20. That said other brands aren't much cheaper.
Those filters are gel/resin filters- basically thin material in a frame. Quality should be fine but they're relatively delicate. I think they're like the coloured filters on the lights at the school disco

If you're mainly looking to shoot the bridge I think you'll find a polariser more useful than any of this other stuff.
As Hoppy said the neutral density (ND) filters you've picked out are used to increase exposure time- for effects like smoothing water or blurring out people and cars.
Graduated neutral density (GND) are useful for balancing the exposure- e.g bright sky and dark ground- but if you have something like a bridge or building or person that cuts across the light and dark area, you'll see the transition on them and it looks odd. I'd use the polariser for that sort of scene instead- if necessary with an ND to smooth the sea or blur out the cars.

I see, so for a start they're good to get me going with filters then.
I was going to add a polariser to my 'to buy' list before I go. Thank you very much for your help.

 

[HoppyUK]

I see, so for a start they're good to get me going with filters then.
I was going to add a polariser to my 'to buy' list before I go. Thank you very much for your help.

Consider carefully Jo. If you are a keen landscape shooter, don't mind investing several hundred quid, and are prepared to carry around a bulky slot-in filter system, then go for Lee. With grads though, you will always have the problem of things like buildings and mountains and trees (and bridges) breaking above the grad line and spoiling the result.

Alternatively, consider a screw-in polariser and ND filter, and manage bright skies with HDR technique in software. Much cheaper, a lot less hassle, and better results.

 

[jo30]

Consider carefully Jo. If you are a keen landscape shooter, don't mind investing several hundred quid, and are prepared to carry around a bulky slot-in filter system, then go for Lee. With grads though, you will always have the problem of things like buildings and mountains and trees (and bridges) breaking above the grad line and spoiling the result.

Alternatively, consider a screw-in polariser and ND filter, and manage bright skies with HDR technique in software. Much cheaper, a lot less hassle, and better results.

Thanks Richard, am seriously considering your suggestion.

Thank you everyone for your advice, it's very much appreciated.

 

[billozz]

does anyone rate these as and what are the advantages/ disadvantages
thanks
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Slim-...es_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item20c79ee05a