National minimum wage opt out

[wack61]

I'm a bit stunned by this, Christopher Chope a Tory MP has sponsored a bill that has a minimum wage opt out in it.

So how will it work, 2 go for a job, they get asked to opt out, one says no so he's straight out of the door


National minimum wage opt out

(1) Any person who would otherwise qualify for entitlement to the national
15minimum wage, as defined in the National Minimum Wage Act 1998, may
elect to opt out from such entitlement.

(2) Any election to opt out under subsection (1) must be made by an employee in
writing to that person’s employer and signed by the employee and employer.

(3) Any person who has elected to opt out of entitlement to the national minimum
20wage in accordance with subsection (1) may withdraw such election by giving
notice to his employer in writing.

Employment Opportunities BillPage 2

(4) Any notice of withdrawal under subsection (3) shall take effect no earlier than
three months from the date that it is given unless such period of minimum
notice is waived by the employer.

(5) For the avoidance of doubt, nothing in this Act shall require a person to take
5employment below the minimum wage and no person shall suffer any
detriment to their entitlement to national insurance benefits by reason of their
unwillingness to take employment below the minimum wage.

http://www.publications.parliament....0-2012/0024/cbill_2010-20120024_en_2.htm#l1g2

 

[photon]

That'd be the elected representative who claimed nearly £900 to repair a sofa...

 

[Splog]

I call it 'Scum policy' ................. If that is genuine? then the man should do the decent thing and 'opt out' ....... of society!

 

[Carter64]

I work in Security, (Concierge/CCTV) at minimum wage. Well just above, £6 per hour, wow. Even now, at my rate, working 50-60 hrs per week, it's just enough. A few hundred out of my own pocket to renew both my licences every 3 yrs too.
Before min wage, security were getting stupidly low wages, a couple of quid. A lot were claiming at the same time and tbh I can't say I blame them. I'm sure other workers were doing the same in other jobs. Not to mention the standard of employee this attracted. Employers, of course, took advantage of this and will do again
I personally think min wage and tax credits have reduced the number of people feeling the need to fiddle, as I believe was the intention.

That'd be the elected representative who claimed nearly £900 to repair a sofa...

I'd have only cost him £200if he could have got opted-out labour!

 

[Gary Coyle]

Apprentices regardless of age have never been subject to the minimum wage, my lad is 19 and is earning £140 as an apprentice roofer, his last company only paid £100 and laid him off, the companies also get £65 towards his wage from the goverment, being a roofer work is hit and miss depending on weather, at his first company the slightest sign of cloud meant no work and no pay even thoughn he was guaranteed the £65, the scumbag company kept it, we were glad when he was laid off and found another employer

 

[apkent]

Indeed. If your company is providing you with training NMW at the full rate doesn't apply anyway.

A HUGE cop-out when employing young people.

 

[TriggerHappy]

That's nothing new; it's been a long time coming from the tories!

2009

 

[flossie]

The wording sounds remarkably similiar to the opt-outs from the Working Time Directive... although the difference is that was so people could earn more, not less!

Anyway, I can't see this realistically going anywhere. Sounds like political postureing by a back-bencher to boost his profile...which he seems to have achieved...

 

[gman]

I'm a bit stunned by this, Christopher Chope a Tory MP has sponsored a bill that has a minimum wage opt out in it.

So how will it work, 2 go for a job, they get asked to opt out, one says no so he's straight out of the door

Defeats the purpose of having a minimum wage although I suspect they'll say that if you are reject or dismissed because of refusing to opt out then it's unfair dismissal - but try proving it! lol

Before min wage, security were getting stupidly low wages, a couple of quid. A lot were claiming at the same time and tbh I can't say I blame them.

Not to mention having top of the range mobility cars

The gangster security firms in Glasgow and surrounding areas rarely even have someone on site. They pretty much rely on their signs to keep people away - although the only real threat is from other security firms.

The twisted irony is that we never actually needed security to keep our sites safe, we only need to hire security to stop that same security firm from burning our plant etc lol

 

[zeugma]

\.......Sounds like political postureing by a back-bencher to boost his profile...which he seems to have achieved...

Not impossible, but at his age and with his voting record I'd say he was a sincerely unpleasant unreconstructed Thatcherite (IMHO) :thumbsdown:

 

[realspeed]

why should people work for less than mimimum wage when they can more than likely get more on the dole and or benefits?


Realspeed

 

[zeugma]

why should people work for less than mimimum wage when they can more than likely get more on the dole and or benefits?


Realspeed

Because, (if I understand correctly), the dole is only a short term solution. I believe that the employment service get quite aggressive about you taking a job - any job - after a period of time. If you don't, they dock your benefits.

 

[PetethePrimate]

On the subject of the minimum wage
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13809620
MP says minimum wage a hindrance to disabled jobseekers

A Conservative MP has suggested "vulnerable" jobseekers - including disabled people - should be allowed to work for less than the minimum wage.

Backbencher Philip Davies said the £5.93-an-hour legal minimum may be a "hindrance" to some jobseekers.

Firms were likely to favour other candidates and MPs should not "stand in the way" of those who wanted to work for less to get on the "jobs ladder".

 

[Uneducated_Rick]

I think it was an idea which was grounded in offering 'vulnerable' (with a disability or learning difficulty) jobseekers only a method of becoming more competitive in the workplace to get onto the working ladder

Badly worded and badly though out, but the basic concept of offering people with a disability or difficulty a trump card to help them get into work in the first place might have been a good idea had it been thought out better.

Maybe a clause of working for less for the first few (3?) months to prove they are as good at the job as an able bodied worker before getting increased to NMW or the same as their colleagues - problem then would be implementing it would be a logistical and administrative nightmare at a time when the government is trying to streamline processes as much as possible

 

[photon]

Coming up on Newsnight, along with "What makes an iconic photograph?"...

 

[TriggerHappy]

why should people work for less than mimimum wage when they can more than likely get more on the dole and or benefits?


Realspeed

The basic rate of jobseekers allowance for 25 and over is £67.50 a week. The minimum wage for 21 and over is £5.93 an hour (soon to rise to £6.08). Even given the other support the unemployed may be entitled to, you can hardly argue the average person would be better off out of work!

 

[gman]

The basic rate of jobseekers allowance for 25 and over is £67.50 a week. The minimum wage for 21 and over is £5.93 an hour (soon to rise to £6.08). Even given the other support the unemployed may be entitled to, you can hardly argue the average person would be better off out of work!

You don't just get jobseekers allowance though, there's council tax relief, housing benefit, higher child benefits etc not to mention any cash income you make on the side

 

[Oggy]

I was listening to this and it really struck me that it should be posted under the title "The road to hell is paved with good intensions". I thought he identified a problem and genuinly set out (but failed) to find a solution.

 

[Carter64]

Not to mention having top of the range mobility cars

The gangster security firms in Glasgow and surrounding areas rarely even have someone on site. They pretty much rely on their signs to keep people away - although the only real threat is from other security firms.

The twisted irony is that we never actually needed security to keep our sites safe, we only need to hire security to stop that same security firm from burning our plant etc lol

I'll agree in principle, though as quoted:
'You may believe that but I couldn't possibly comment'
Guys who do the Doors here are mostly MMA competitors. It's a good thing. But bad that it needs to be so. And I'm getting off-topic. sos.

 

[realspeed]

Being a working pensioner and never been out of work since 15 years of age when I first started work, I do wonder how hard people actually try to get work. Try getting a tradsman to carry out small jobs and its nigh impossible to find one. I wanted my front wall replaced and new gates total length 90 feet and I tried numerous companies to do the job and not one wanted it. Eventually I managed to get a clients family member who did it and we are talking thousands of pounds worth of work.

The problem is everyone has been brainwashed that they must have a university education and it is a load of rubbish. There are less job oppertunities for highly educated people than there is for someone having done a trade apprenticeship.
As an employer I would pick someone with experience everytime over anyone with a degree and knows nothing about the business.

Realspeed

 

[ding76uk]

Badly worded and badly though out, but the basic concept of offering people with a disability or difficulty a trump card to help them get into work in the first place might have been a good idea had it been thought out better.

All that is saying is that disabled people aren't as useful as able bodied and therefore should be paid less. Surely it is discrimination.

Also just because someone is disabled doesn't mean they pay less for everything, so why should they be paid less?

 

[ding76uk]

Try getting a tradsman to carry out small jobs and its nigh impossible to find one. I wanted my front wall replaced and new gates total length 90 feet and I tried numerous companies to do the job and not one wanted it. Eventually I managed to get a clients family member who did it and we are talking thousands of pounds worth of work.

That said, try getting an apprenticeship in the building trade at the moment.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

the Tories are still infected with Maggie's disease, this is only one of the symptoms.
It give off a whiff of evil that is easily detectable.

 

[TriggerHappy]

You don't just get jobseekers allowance though, there's council tax relief, housing benefit, higher child benefits etc not to mention any cash income you make on the side

Read my message again. Here, I'll help

The basic rate of jobseekers allowance for 25 and over is £67.50 a week. The minimum wage for 21 and over is £5.93 an hour (soon to rise to £6.08). Even given the other support the unemployed may be entitled to, you can hardly argue the average person would be better off out of work!

 

[Uneducated_Rick]

All that is saying is that disabled people aren't as useful as able bodied and therefore should be paid less. Surely it is discrimination.

Also just because someone is disabled doesn't mean they pay less for everything, so why should they be paid less?

I didn't say they are less useful, I am saying they may be perceived as less useful and as such may find it more difficult to find a job when competing against an able bodied person.

Nor did I say they should be paid less, I said that the option to opt out might give them a trump over able-bodies people if they chose to take it (not mandatory). I also suggested caveats about how long they can be paid below minimum wage. Possibly the government could "top up" the wages to NMW stop the employee being underpaid, in the mean time the employer is saving some money and the person in work has a chance to prove they are more than competent for the job so after X months they are then transferred to NMW, or same wage as colleagues - it could almost be like an induction period.


As Oggy said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions - I believe this was an ill conceived plan but was genuinely thought of to help 'vulnerable' people who are out of work

 

[cyclamens]

All that is saying is that disabled people aren't as useful as able bodied and therefore should be paid less. Surely it is discrimination.

Also just because someone is disabled doesn't mean they pay less for everything, so why should they be paid less?

the Tories are still infected with Maggie's disease, this is only one of the symptoms.
It give off a whiff of evil that is easily detectable.

Infected - no, the current crop are no different to their predecessors - they are the disease


Typical MP's - totally out of touch with the reality of life for too many of the people in this country:bang:

 

[Uneducated_Rick]

Infected - no, the current crop are no different to their predecessors - they are the disease

As opposed to Labour who constantly overspend and force the Torries hand into such drastic actions :nuts:

Torries are the Bad Cop who have to drag this country out of the mire - they often overstep the mark or don't think things through - but lets not forget it is Labour who constantly play Good Cop and treat us "well" then realise they've made promises they can't keep without wrecking future generations

This is why the forum should not discuss politics

Can I suggest this thread gets locked sooner rather than later