NASA bomb the moon... today

jamesoliverstone said:
Its called "advancement in science"

If we didnt do things like this all the time, you wouldnt be sat behind your multithreaded processing machine sending binary information over fibre optics to a hugely decentralised database that is the internet, nor would you have your iphones, microwaves cars etc etc etc....

I love it when people with less than 0% knowledge on the subject or the huge technicals / reasoning behind it pipe up and have a good ol winge about how wrong it is....

Keyboard warriors and soapbox loudmouths make me laugh, surrounded by their "modern technologies" and designer clothes made in a sweathouse in china ;)
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Am a sucker for technology for sure - just not the type that cause deaths... like bombs un stuff

however

i never wear clothes that arent fair trade - mostly because my clothes are usually made by hippy fashion designers who make cool stuff :)
 
Cheers for the heads up Dave :thumbs:

I do get it, I just don's see why there's a need for a base on the moon (except as a final retreat for those that can afford it when the Earth finally dies).

As for domestic goodness eventually filtering down from missions like this, I think I'll ponder that further whilst listening to a nice LP on my record player later... ;)
 
david1701 said:
feeb read a book or go away seriously the moon doesn't care its rocks the clangers wasn't a documentary I couldn't cope with an introverted world where people weren't working to do something newer and better or go somewhere newer and better tbh if that happens I think we might as well nuke ourselves
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Read a book or go away? Can i suggest you reccomend a book if this is your perception on my 'lack of knowledge'

i also couldnt cope with a world where human-kind wasnt advancing, just that our ideas of advancement are different.

my theory = If you have to bomb something to get what you want, it probably wasnt worth getting
 
On the subject of 'ownership' i wouldnt say i believe i 'own' the moon, nor does anyone else, but as a human being on this earth i feel a certain responsibilty to protect our lady friend who has already given us so much

and i think that is an equal responsibility amongst us all, not to 'save the moon' from random space junk, but maybe from weird human stuff... as they are us after all :)
 
The Americans eh.. they just gotta be blowing SOMETHING up!! :lol:


They will have the ET's to answer to.. they live just on the other side... THE DARK SIDE...

Now...


Where is my Pink Floyd cd's???
 
Bin Laden must be hiding out up there.
 
Bout time we got something happening up there - better to spend billions doing this kind of research than blowing the crap out of each other down here...
 
Arkady said:
Bout time we got something happening up there - better to spend billions doing this kind of research than blowing the crap out of each other down here...
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does it really have to be one or the other?

because either;

A) bombing eachother

or

B) Bombing the moon

sounds like a rubbish decision to have to make


i hope your okay in Afganistan by the way, i imagine it is eye-opening and i know you guys are doing lots of work out there to get things on track for those people who have had their government swept away...

take care and be safe xxx
 
yoby said:
Cheers for the heads up Dave :thumbs:

I do get it, I just don's see why there's a need for a base on the moon (except as a final retreat for those that can afford it when the Earth finally dies).

As for domestic goodness eventually filtering down from missions like this, I think I'll ponder that further whilst listening to a nice LP on my record player later... ;)
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its more that if you can build a viable long term outpost on the moon, then you can build one anywhere which opens up interstellar travel quite nicely, the moon is a useful place to do all sorts of scientific experiments because the magnetic field is week/non existent.

There is a long term plan that involves putting people back into space with manned missions to the moon and mars on the cards. And if the european space programmes are going to be doing it I'll get to the gym sharpish :thumbs:

It is necesary to hit the moon with force (no explosives just a lot of KE so more of a kinetic energy missile than a bomb) to kick up a plume from under the surface as the top layers of soil can be sampled by rovers but the machines to drill cores are a lot more involved and the samples more complex to analyze.

@feeb:
I meant a lack of general knowledge, which I apologise for saying. You aren't stupid we just approach problems different ways.
 
david1701 said:
its more that if you can build a viable long term outpost on the moon, then you can build one anywhere which opens up interstellar travel quite nicely, the moon is a useful place to do all sorts of scientific experiments because the magnetic field is week/non existent.

There is a long term plan that involves putting people back into space with manned missions to the moon and mars on the cards. And if the european space programmes are going to be doing it I'll get to the gym sharpish :thumbs:

It is necesary to hit the moon with force (no explosives just a lot of KE so more of a kinetic energy missile than a bomb) to kick up a plume from under the surface as the top layers of soil can be sampled by rovers but the machines to drill cores are a lot more involved and the samples more complex to analyze.

@feeb:
I meant a lack of general knowledge, which I apologise for saying. You aren't stupid we just approach problems different ways.
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you complete space cadet :cuckoo:

matter transporters are the only viable means on interstellar travel:cool:
 
Thanks David that was very cool of you to say

i totally understand why it excites some people, space travel being many peoples ideas of the next 'evolution'

i feel a bit differently about it but i am glad this thread has provoked thoughts and opinions of many different points of view.

Someone earlier was talking to me about them hoping to put an eden project type bubble on the moon, i must that that idea does enthrall me, how exciting would it be to put a bubble of life on a rock!

But the pagan in me revolts at the idea of my favourite lady being messed with by a bomb (i am so glad they arent using explosives!)

if they are planning to put life on the moon, in bubbles and explore how to terraform effectively - then fair play

its just the military aspect that gets me a bit... We have never been too friendly with countries and other peoples, Americas home record is pretty bad let alone what it has 'achieved' abroad

so i will always be dubious about bombs equalling advancement

Still i feel the moon is a pretty powerful beast wiether celestial or physical

so i am less worried now but still a bit sad about it all :(
 
i know the internet came about from military advances, i am not in a position to disengage myself from advancements made by man in the past

that would be ridiculous, those advances have been made, they have already been achieved, to refute them would be totally belittling those events that made them happen

if you must know the depths of which my hippy rubbish goes here you are

i believe we had a massive technical revolution, involving guns and bombs and lots of death and stuff

this gave us internet and photography and starbucks and a whole mixed bag of stuff

i DO NOT believe that this militant advancement phase in human development is perminant, i have no problem admitting it happened - nor that it was neccessary to us, because, quite simply - if it happened, it was neccessary, that is my belief.

For example - a war is fought in Cambodia which among other things builds a road from village A to town B, town B has hospitals, schools and other advancements to aid the people in villiage A

many people were killed during the making of the road, because of the road and for the road. But that does not mean that people in villiage A who use the road to get to facilities in town B are condoning the actions of those road makers

they are simply using what they are given, if people have suffered for that, its really more reason to use it.

Its a hard thing to explain, but i believe i should use everything in my power to gather as much information as possible to pass on to the next generation - its all i can do to save the world :)
 
Actually I think you are really just getting hung up on the terminology used. If it was something on the lines of 'remote detonation device' you probably wouldn't have been half as bothered. However, the news doesnt stand out as much if they don't add a bit of 'sensationlism' to the title. ;)
 
no that would certainly freak me out more as 'remote detonation device' definatly is just a long winded way of saying 'bomb' and i would be wondering what they were hiding and who they were trying to fool frankly

i have got a geniune interest for life, science, sprituality and exploration of all kinds (not in that order :) ) so please dont assume i am fooled by sensationalist media headlines because i really sincerely dont think i am that dim

fact is, they are sending up a large projectile, that will impact on and leave a hole in our moon

and that makes me shudder a bit
 
feeb said:
no that would certainly freak me out more as 'remote detonation device' definatly is just a long winded way of saying 'bomb' and i would be wondering what they were hiding and who they were trying to fool frankly

i have got a geniune interest for life, science, sprituality and exploration of all kinds (not in that order :) ) so please dont assume i am fooled by sensationalist media headlines because i really sincerely dont think i am that dim

fact is, they are sending up a large projectile, that will impact on and leave a hole in our moon

and that makes me shudder a bit
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a crater, not a hole and has been pointed out before, this will not be a new experience for the moon.
 
yes and as i said it is not our duty to protect the moon from what space throws at it, but we should always be monitoring what WE do to it.

I just believe there are other ways to develop which dont go 'bomb now and analyse later'

i am sorry you find that so hard to understand
 
feeb said:
yes and as i said it is not our duty to protect the moon from what space throws at it, but we should always be monitoring what WE do to it.

I just believe there are other ways to develop which dont go 'bomb now and analyse later'

i am sorry you find that so hard to understand
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i r dim
probably cheaper to do it this way than send up a drilling team
 
bomb... sorry what bomb... there is no bomb... it's a small lump of metal that once was probably used to carry a satellite into orbit.. It's recycling the lump of metal and stopping it falling back to earth, where it might break up or land on someone... It's way way smaller than some of the lumps of rock that have smashed into the moon at far higher speeds... it's going to throw up some dust and a bit of debris, maybe making a teeny tiny crater in the process... The measurements are being carried out by a follow up probe, to be beamed back to earth. There is no other way of measuring the content of the crater that is being impacted, as the crater never gets the light of the sun shining in it. I'd love to be able to see the event and the plume of debris, although none of my astronomy equipment is large enough, nor will the moon be high enough for me to be able to even see the moon, let alone the south pole.
 
feeb said:
sorry what does

'i r dim' mean?
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i was agreeing with your pity at my lack of understanding

you said:

Originally Posted by feeb
i am sorry you find that so hard to understand

so i said:

i r dim

have you never heard of a store called toys r us?
 
andrew748, why is it whenever a niggling little thread seems to appear, with little comments and jibes and just generally odd and sometime smart ass comments you always seem to be present?

Can we just say some people agree to disagree on this subject and move on with our lives :)

Thanks
 
hey i think its quite an interesting discussion - is interested to know what the science buffs make of it all

i really dont want it to get nasty or niggly

i think its great that we are so diverse we can form such different opinions on things and i am really not trying to rock the boat
 
Bomb! ..... what bomb? It's like shooting a 2/2 bullet at Ayers rock :thinking:
 
andrew748 said:
you complete space cadet :cuckoo:
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Yeahn and I'll say right now that I'd trade a nut to be a mission tog on anything like that

feeb said:
Thanks David that was very cool of you to say

i totally understand why it excites some people, space travel being many peoples ideas of the next 'evolution'

i feel a bit differently about it but i am glad this thread has provoked thoughts and opinions of many different points of view.

Someone earlier was talking to me about them hoping to put an eden project type bubble on the moon, i must that that idea does enthrall me, how exciting would it be to put a bubble of life on a rock!

But the pagan in me revolts at the idea of my favourite lady being messed with by a bomb (i am so glad they arent using explosives!)

if they are planning to put life on the moon, in bubbles and explore how to terraform effectively - then fair play

its just the military aspect that gets me a bit... We have never been too friendly with countries and other peoples, Americas home record is pretty bad let alone what it has 'achieved' abroad

so i will always be dubious about bombs equalling advancement

Still i feel the moon is a pretty powerful beast wiether celestial or physical

so i am less worried now but still a bit sad about it all :(
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It's ok - I looked back at my post and I was unfair

a major part of taking people places is taking plants and microbes too, as simply put they are better than us at recycling potentially limited resources (something I guess you know more than me about :D) all the long term manned missions I've looked at had gardens/allotments for oxygen recycling and food provision

terraforming is more involved as the moon lacks an atmosphere and a strong magnetic field which is why mars is a far more suitable candidate.

feeb said:
yes and as i said it is not our duty to protect the moon from what space throws at it, but we should always be monitoring what WE do to it.

I just believe there are other ways to develop which dont go 'bomb now and analyse later'

i am sorry you find that so hard to understand
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the problem with the other ways is that to do it properly you need particalized samples from a lot of depths which is a lot of drilling which involves time (food and air) people and a lot of machines all of which are massively heavy so use lots of rocket fuel. This way we can tell for a more limited cost whether the moon is as viable as is hoped

I get what you mean about the destructive aspect, but I can't really get behind it as I don't see the moon to be a living thing, but thats where our religious backgrounds differ
 
Ok, will try IE. Am i right in thinking it has already happened though? I fear I have missed the coverage...

EDIT: Nope, 17 mins still to go. TY for IE advice :)
 
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just happened, meant nowt to me watching it ***, couldn't see the impact or differing craters before and after :bang:
 
I thought they said something on the news this morning that they were dropping something the size of a transit van into a crater which was 36km across. Looking for damage would be like looking for the preverbial needle in a haystack.
 
we watched it, we saw the moon then turned round to have conversaton, turned back and they were all clapping! Don't think we missed much :lol:
 
lol, i twigged afterwards I was watching slow frame rate footage from the probe itself which explains why I missed the impact, should be more info coming in from earth and space based telescopes though
 
Well, personally I found all that incredibly interesting. Maybe that's just because I'm a scientist at heart and that is what get's my proverbial juices flowing... I don't know.

With regard to earlier comments in this thread, I fail to see where the objection comes from to be honest. I think it's very wrong of us to assume ownership as an individual, or a race as a whole, over a stellar object. Some might argue that we "own" the Earth; that it's somehow "ours". I think of it as we are here due to a very long natural process that lead to our becoming the dominant inhabitants. We did not take ownership as it were.

The impact itself was tiny. Not even noticeable when compared to some of the impacts from natural objects, so any worry of this mission doing damage to the orbital path, or even cosmetic damage should have been dismissed well before the event. Further, the impact was in a crater near the pole, where, due to the low angle of attack from the sun, we never see anyway!

As far as scientific discovery is concerned, I am all for it. Finding water there, and allowing for the increased possibility of a manned base on the moon surface is a massive step forward! Ignoring all the thousands of possible scientific research opportunities that are possible in this environment, I think that such a base could act as a role model for how we act on Earth. Efficient energy creation, storage and usage, recycling, etc etc will all have to be well thought out and implemented. Perhaps it will act as an example for how we should be implementing technology back here.

So anyway, I sit firmly on the side of scientific progression, and I hope, common sense.
 
Being discussed on Radio 5 right now.
 
Woodsy said:
With regard to earlier comments in this thread, I fail to see where the objection comes from to be honest. I think it's very wrong of us to assume ownership as an individual, or a race as a whole, over a stellar object. Some might argue that we "own" the Earth; that it's somehow "ours". I think of it as we are here due to a very long natural process that lead to our becoming the dominant inhabitants. We did not take ownership as it were.
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I have never said we own the Earth or the moon, nor that we are responsible for what happens to the Earth and the moon...

However, We as a race are responsible for what We as a race do to those stellar objects/celestial bodies

and i am personally of the belief that

1. If Nasa wanted to do such experiements on the moon it should have been as a part of worldwide descision, not just some blokes in congress because they think they own it

2. If you have to bomb something to get what you want it wasnt worth getting.


I dont understand why some people think the above is acceptable but i am not slanting your beliefs here, i am interested in things they might do in light of this, but i dont believe a bomb was the way to make it happen

just like i dont think the people building schools and hospitals in Afganistan shouldnt be doing that, but they didnt have to have a war to start doing it.
 
But they didn't really bomb it, did they. They made two small spacecraft crash land in a crater. And a guy from the University of Durham picked the spot so the UK appear to have been involved as well. I'm sure the US didn't do it off their own backs and there was worldwide support for it.
 
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