NAS / backup / storage questions and solutions

mike_6480 said:
I use a HP Microserver with synology software. Means I can easy add additional hard drives to it and also you basically get a synology NAS for a fraction of the price
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Oh.. do explain.. :D

My microserver and 2x WD 3Tb Red is due tomorrow. I didn't want to fill all four bays from the outset but I'd like it to be easy to do so in the future.
 
Alastair said:
Oh.. do explain.. :D

My microserver and 2x WD 3Tb Red is due tomorrow. I didn't want to fill all four bays from the outset but I'd like it to be easy to do so in the future.
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Google "xpenology" - there are many forums on how to add synology software to a microserver.
 
Thanks Mike.
 
The easiest way to get the Microserver up and running is just with an old licence for say Windows 7 32 bit will do as it comes shipped with a 4gb DIMM.
W7 may be getting old but seeing as it will just be doing NAS duty it doesn't matter to much, just create a nice share on the Disk with everyone full access and pretty much bingo.

Add a hubic service on there £30 /year 10 Tb storage and you have an uber server with good fallback.

The micro server does support onboard Raid as well.

2x WD tb reds is fine mirrored. however you can also if you want fit a full hardware raid card like an HP410 which connects the drive cage direct to the controller.

cost

microserver from ebuyer £165 (not including £55 cash back if you purchase from n HP dealer UK based) so £115
2x WD reds 2TB about £70 each so £140

scrabble about for a W7 licence and get the ISO off t'internet and create a bootable USB key with Rufus.

bobs....
 
This is all sounding complicated!! so the microserver is basically a mini PC with storage?
 
It's a cheap as chips small cube like PC system unit, usually sold without any optical or hard disks & therefore no operating system. Up to the owner to decide what storage configuration they require & what operating system they want to use. :)

Forgot to add, low power consumption, pretty quiet too! Target audience small business & home server market.
 
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technics100 said:
This is all sounding complicated!! so the microserver is basically a mini PC with storage?
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yes but built very much as a server, it has a proper drive cage like a nas so very easy to install disks
 
The HP Microserver is exactly a barebones PC to which you add disks and install an OS and software to satisfy your requirements.
It's just very good value and well-suited to these sorts of tasks, which is why it's often recommended as a starting point.
 
And of course, a Win 7 licence gets you Win 10 for free...
 
jwsmith said:
The HP Microserver is exactly a barebones PC to which you add disks and install an OS and software to satisfy your requirements.
It's just very good value and well-suited to these sorts of tasks, which is why it's often recommended as a starting point.
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And bear in mind it costs absolute buttins and in a few years time you can sell them on real easy, if you realy want to get funky with them the have an ILO port for RJ-45 and for £20 you can get an advanced server licence.
Also you get 2x GB NICs onboard and 2xPCIe slots.
 
To be honest, I think that's all sounding like a bit of overkill for me. I don't fancy getting win 7 license etc.. I think something like the Buffalo drive seems more suited to me. Is that a big mistake? I want to plug something into my router and copy files across and get going.. then wire from my router to my desktop and copy all my lightroom files across..

http://www.ebuyer.com/630706-buffalo-linkstation-ls220-6tb-2-bay-2-x-3tb-nas-drive-ls220d0602-eu

This gives me 2 x 3TB storage then I can backup to my existing 2TB usb HDD and remove off site when needed.
 
The ebuyer buffalo looks fine, but remember buying into a static NAS means you still have your data all in one handy easy to lose place, raid or no raid a burgler/fire/incident and its gone.

So you are now looking at another way to secure the already secured data, that's why NASs are such a rubbish idea without a proper backup procedure,
some people hark on about backing it up to an external drive and taking it to mums house every sunday.

The micro server style approach using hubic as cloud backup takes all that away, your data is mirrored in 3 datacenters for £30/year.
 
Thanks for that, currently my NAS is housed behind the TV cabinet so it's only a fire that would ruin it.. (my brother had a fire at home a Christmas, so I know how much damage can be caused) I would backup via USB and always remove the backup when we are out of the house - weekends or holidays.. can Hubic be used with the buffalo?
 
technics100 said:
Thanks for that, currently my NAS is housed behind the TV cabinet so it's only a fire that would ruin it.. (my brother had a fire at home a Christmas, so I know how much damage can be caused) I would backup via USB and always remove the backup when we are out of the house - weekends or holidays.. can Hubic be used with the buffalo?
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I am not sure to be honest if it can there might be a plug in for it?
you might be able to use the service on a PC that maps to the NAS tho.

The other thing to remember is external drives are just mechanical also so wear out / have issues when you need them the most.
 
Mr Bump said:
The micro server style approach using hubic as cloud backup takes all that away, your data is mirrored in 3 datacenters for £30/year.
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But there's no reason you couldn't run Hubic with a static NAS, e.g. the Buffalo.

The server appeals to me because both of us in the house a. use multiple laptops/desktops, b. are familiar with using a network drive alongside local storage and c. want separate network drives.

If you're a single user and want an uncomplicated set-up there's nowt wrong with a basic NAS plus cloud.
 
technics100 said:
To be honest, I think that's all sounding like a bit of overkill for me. I don't fancy getting win 7 license etc.. I think something like the Buffalo drive seems more suited to me. Is that a big mistake? I want to plug something into my router and copy files across and get going.. then wire from my router to my desktop and copy all my lightroom files across..

http://www.ebuyer.com/630706-buffalo-linkstation-ls220-6tb-2-bay-2-x-3tb-nas-drive-ls220d0602-eu

This gives me 2 x 3TB storage then I can backup to my existing 2TB usb HDD and remove off site when needed.
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I see the rest of the discussion is about what they'd do themselves, not necessarily what's best for you. But that's perfectly normal....

The only problem I can see with that NAS is that its CPU is a bit wimpish and that's reflected in the reviewers saying the transfer rate is slow. If you're going to use the NAS to hold your working LR files then I suspect you won't enjoy the experience. Unfortunately, you do, to some extent, get what you pay for and I think it's worth spending a bit extra now to get a solution that will last. If you can push the budget closer to £300 your options open up enormously and include the two Asustor units I mentioned earlier. If you want to browse the specs for yourself, you're looking for a CPU that's at least 1.2GHz, preferably 1.6GHz or more. My preference is for Intel CPUs but the Marvells are okay once they're running at a decent speed. We recommend Asustor, QNAP & Synology for good reasons as they're proven kit with good user interfaces. Look a little further than ebuyer as their NAS range isn't that wide. Scan and Amazon have more choice.
 
Thanks Snapsh0t, I do agree with you. I'm just worried about how to get it all up and running and actually working.. can I buy a fully built plug in version of a HP microserver or similar? or is it all a DIY job?
 
The nearest thing that I can think of to what you're asking for is something like a HP microserver that you then install FreeNas or similar on. This gives you more power and features than an off-the-shelf NAS box without requiring as much time and knowledge to set it up or the expense of a more managed/enterprise solution.

I've not personally used FreeNAS but it seems as though it's worth a good look at based upon the features that you're after.
 
If you just want something to plug in and it's (almost) ready then go for a NAS. All you have to do is plug the drives in, power it up then configure it via the web browser on your PC.
If you're prepared to mess about a bit more then the Microserver is great. FreeNAS & NAS4free aren't that difficult to set up but they're nowhere near as trivial as a dedicated NAS. I had a couple of 'WTF is going on's while installing NAS4free and I have over 30 years IT experience, albeit mainly Wintel. For your use, I think you should stick with a NAS.
 
OK, this is probably a stupid question, but do I need to install win 7 etc with a keyboard, mouse and screen? I have a Dell All in one desktop, so I don't even have a screen to set the microserver up..
 
technics100 said:
OK, this is probably a stupid question, but do I need to install win 7 etc with a keyboard, mouse and screen? I have a Dell All in one desktop, so I don't even have a screen to set the microserver up..
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You need a screen and keyboard for the initial set-up from what I've read.

This thread has inspired me to go this route (alerting a bargain such as the HP cashback offer will always cause folk to discuss what it might do for them as well), I can describe the set-up as I go throw it this week if that would be useful. The kit should be arriving later today.
 
One thing I would advise on that is growing in talk in my IT community is the reducing validity of RAID setups. For years Raid 5 has been the darling of NAS/Server installs for space versus redundancy. However lately with a lot of these huge mega size drives becoming popular the issue or URE is rearing its head (unrecoverable read errors). These are only being found out after a drive failure and during the rebuild process. This can mean a 3 disk Raid 5 solution is pretty pointless and even 5 disk solutions can be rendered unreliable during the crunch. Due to the price of these large disks and low costs of these cheap Raid 5 NAS devices they are popular among low costs home users who potentially don't have great backup strategies.

In short avoid Raid 5 and only consider a solution that offers Raid 6 support and absolutely nail your backups idealy to a cloud solution.
 
technics100 said:
that would be great..
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Everything's arrived, but it's all very cold from transport so I know from experience to let temperatures equalise before getting stuck in.

A quick look at the back panel and it's a standard 15-pin monitor connection, you might find your TV will have the right port if it's the right age.
 
Mr Bump said:
In short avoid Raid 5 and only consider a solution that offers Raid 6 support and absolutely nail your backups idealy to a cloud solution.
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I was planning on a ZFS Mirror (eq. RAID 1) with FreeNAS as I'm only installing two disks for now. I know that limits options in the future, but I can add a second mirrored volume with another two disks later as a relatively straightforward upgrade if I don't want to to rebuild it again - I know I lose out on a degree of volume efficiency doing this, but I can live with that.
 
Alastair said:
I was planning on a ZFS Mirror (eq. RAID 1) with FreeNAS as I'm only installing two disks for now. I know that limits options in the future, but I can add a second mirrored volume with another two disks later as a relatively straightforward upgrade if I don't want to to rebuild it again - I know I lose out on a degree of volume efficiency doing this, but I can live with that.
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Mirroring is my favored solution and the micro server supports it well, if you can look at purchasing an HP P410 Raid controller to replace the onboard.
 
Alastair said:
Everything's arrived, but it's all very cold from transport so I know from experience to let temperatures equalise before getting stuck in.

A quick look at the back panel and it's a standard 15-pin monitor connection, you might find your TV will have the right port if it's the right age.
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Also the keboard and mouse is USB only on these servers.
 
Mr Bump said:
One thing I would advise on that is growing in talk in my IT community is the reducing validity of RAID setups. For years Raid 5 has been the darling of NAS/Server installs for space versus redundancy. However lately with a lot of these huge mega size drives becoming popular the issue or URE is rearing its head (unrecoverable read errors). These are only being found out after a drive failure and during the rebuild process. This can mean a 3 disk Raid 5 solution is pretty pointless and even 5 disk solutions can be rendered unreliable during the crunch. Due to the price of these large disks and low costs of these cheap Raid 5 NAS devices they are popular among low costs home users who potentially don't have great backup strategies.

In short avoid Raid 5 and only consider a solution that offers Raid 6 support and absolutely nail your backups idealy to a cloud solution.
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The main point to take from your post is the lack of home user's backup solutions.
I wouldn't ditch RAID 5 just yet though provided you have a decent backup. RAID 6 will be comparable on read but takes a hit on write as it writes 2 parity instead of 1 parity in RAID 5.

Budget is also a consideration for the OP, having 2 parity disks may be a little too far, it would be cheaper to have a cloud backup such as Hubic.
In the OP's case I would advise, as I believe other's have already, to get a NAS box, Qnap/Synology and a Cloud based storage subscription, Amazon/Hubic etc.

As others have already mentioned how their setup is, incorporating the HP Microserver, I'll chip in with mine. I'm tempetd to get another one as the offer is on again!

All data stored on a Qnap NAS.
PC with 'work in progress', copied from the NAS, worked on then edited files copied back (it's all ethernet but I'm not the most patient, plus 2 other people could be accessing the NAS at the same time).

HP Microserver running ESXi virtualization which among other things has a Lubuntu (Linux) installation with scripts backing up the NAS via crontab and rsync - all automatic once setup. The Lubuntu data (the NAS backup) is then backed up to the cloud (Hubic) weekly.

A monitor/keyboard is required for the initial ESXi install but the microserver is then 'headless' for all other functions - accessed via vmsphere client running on your PC.

Although this may sound complicated, especially to those used to only Windows, it's not that difficult to configure. Linux has got a lot more user friendly :)

The Hubic service, among other similar, has an added advantage of allowing access to your data from anywhere with internet access, even using your phone.
 
@PaulF yes very good solutions but I would not be able to recommend for the average user.

The micro server built as a vanilla PC with a set of mirrored disks and hubic is a great basic setup and on costs and performance blows NAS setups out of the water.

The reason I cannot recommend RAID setups to home users is when a disk fails you need to have one available yesterday for the rebuild and a home user might need a few days minimum, also it is not uncommon for failures to go unnoticed in home user setups.

Putting W7 on a micro server with the HP management agent gives you instant and easy to manage alerting
 
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Thats what raid alert emails in the AMD raidxpert utility (or whatever for the particular model) are for, then just next day a new disk (one reason you should have a valid backup at all times). you'll have the same dilemma with all NAS really. unless you want to run JBOD.

it should not be that hard to configure a microserver with the synology software for example. no different than buying an off the shelf NAS anyway.
 
yeah, I think a NAS box is what I need. would a single bay drive do and then setup cloud storage? is a NAS box usable with cat 5 for lightroom files?

Which is best? Buffalo, Qnap, synology?
 
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id say synology or qnap, theyre much and much the same. not the cheapest but you definitely get what you pay for.

i had a DS1010+ before the microserver and it was excellent. their support was excellent too when I tried to expand into slot 5 and found it was faulty. they dialled in remotely and diagnosed the issue so that i could then RMA the unit with the retailer.
 
I would say QNAP but bear in mind I wouldn't recommend them to use as working drives only for storage.
You would be surprised how much slower working from a network drive is compared to a local drive and especially an SSD.
 
Mr Bump said:
I would say QNAP but bear in mind I wouldn't recommend them to use as working drives only for storage.
You would be surprised how much slower working from a network drive is compared to a local drive and especially an SSD.
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What do you mean working drives? I would like to keep at lightroom files on the NAS and get a cat6 network cable from virgin superhub to my computer.. Hopefully installing a SSD in it next week as it's ridiculously slow at the minute ( any suggestions on SSD? 240gb)
 
technics100 said:
What do you mean working drives? I would like to keep at lightroom files on the NAS and get a cat6 network cable from virgin superhub to my computer.. Hopefully installing a SSD in it next week as it's ridiculously slow at the minute ( any suggestions on SSD? 240gb)
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its not about the cat6 or this and that, its all the stuff you have between you and your files with a NAS that adds time.
local pc with an SSD =blam, if you have an old SATA 2 connector its up to 300mb/s if you have SATA 3 connector and your drive supports it up to 600mb/s =Super Blam.

NAS = Windows Operating system, network card, wire, superhub, wire, NAS, Nas operating system, go get files from older slow spinny disk then pas back to NAS operating system, wire, super hub, wire = then back to your operating system.

in pure numbers it will be slower than you have now with your old spinny disk in your local PC and MUCH slower with an SSD installed.

does it all make sense?

To make your system sing you would work on your files locally on the SSD and then transfer them once finished to the NAS for storage.

NAS storage will always be slower, the up side is sharing it between people.
 
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technics100 said:
that would be great..
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The physical bit of putting this together is quite straightforward, adding the HDDs is easier than for a desktop, adding memory just as easy. Plenty of Youtube videos for this, handy as there's nothing in the box explaining how to open the case! - not needed for the HDDs but needed to add an extra stick of memory and to insert a USB stick into the internal USB slot for FreeNAS to install onto.

Top tip - when FreeNAS recommends a specific converter to put the ISO image on the second USB stick (only used for the install), use it. Couldn't get it to work at first, then switched to their recommended app and it worked straight away.

Now running, but still to create users,volumes etc. That might have to wait.
 
Arrggghhh. this is getting worse.. Just looking at QNap, etc, but they are around £300 with 2 x 2TB drives, so the HP server makes more sense as it seems far better specced.. but it's just getting it all up and running.. I have built a PC many years ago and also installed OS etc.. so may be worth considering, I'm sure I could borrow screen keyboard and mouse for a weekend from work..

1. do i just install win 7 like a normal PC - how do I install it? on one of the 2 drives
2. what happens after that? how do I get it in RAID with NAS access from network?

What all do I need?
HP microserver
Win 7 license
USB drive for installing OS
2 x HDD's
 
I said right at the beginning just install W7, all the X-perts jumped in with all the other cack.

you will need an ISO file of the install media and you can use a piece of software called RUFUS which will create a bootable USB stick to install from, don't go crazy no bigger than 8gb stick.

You can go the FREENAS route as per Alistair that is pretty damned simple, that's the only recommend I would make apart from W7.
 
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