My Rights

[paulcorbettphotography]

Hey all....New to the Forum

I've been into photography for a few months now and I just need to clear a few things up on what rights I have when taking photos..... I'll give a example of what happened to me last night....

The situation is that work was doing a new wedding booklet and the pictures they had of the bar lounge area was old due to decor so they asked me to do new ones since they knew I had a camera and was into photography.

I did the pictures before I started my shift so I wasn't clocked on even tho I was on company grounds....When I did all the pictures of what I thought they could use and were good enough I sent them to the person who asked me to do them and in the email i asked if that I could have some credit towards the pictures since I did them for them. Also I knew myself that the website was the same with the pictures they needed updating...

So I got a phone call saying that they wouldn't be able to give me any credit due to changing the format of there website (what a lame excuse this was tbh) anyway they said will a letter do saying that we can use them...so I said yes thats fine....got to work and the letter said about them using the pictures in the wedding booklet without charge by yourself (as in me)...nothing said about the website so I asked my boss are you going to use them for the website as well he said if your being asses don't sign so I didn't sign.....I felt awkward and felt flush in the face but i knew I was right....anyway the update letter came with saying the same thing but about using them in the booklet and website....Am I right that they can't use them for anything else...????

I know i've given them for free because I wanted to be notice for doing something.

I'm just wondering what all my RIGHTS are with my photos...Copyright etc....

Many Thanks
Paul

 

[sbowler579]

There your property and you should be credited with your work, if they don't give you credit then they don't get the photos, simples. I hope you watermarked your images when you sent them to this person, if not send an email stating unless you receive accreditation for your work that you expressly forbid them to use your work. And welcome to the forums.

 

[paulcorbettphotography]

@sbowler579 I wish it could of been that simple to be honest I work for the actually company I took them for they were being asses about what they were going to use them for.....They did win and get there own way because I thought next time aren't doing anything for you......

Anyway I just need to know in future reference with other people and company's etc.....the rules about photography....
1. Am I allowed to upload photos of people without asking even tho I took them
2. Can I upload photos of saying example my place of work without asking them.....

I just need to know what I can and can't do.....

 

[gramps]

When I did all the pictures of what I thought they could use and were good enough I sent them to the person who asked me to do them and in the email i asked if that I could have some credit towards the pictures since I did them for them. Also I knew myself that the website was the same with the pictures they needed updating...

The copyright of the images remain yours, assuming that your taking them cannot be construed as being part of your employment.
However, it appears that you made no agreement (contract) prior to taking the photos and merely later asked if you could be credited and the answer appears to have been "no!".
Yes you can tell your employer that you don't want them to use the images because they have declined your belated request but you might want to think carefully about doing that.
Also, in the future, think in advance of giving your images to anyone, to ensure that they are only used on your terms.

 

[sbowler579]

1. Am I allowed to upload photos of people without asking even tho I took them

In a public place and as long as you are not using the image for monetary gain then yes, otherwise street photography would be dead.

2. Can I upload photos of saying example my place of work without asking them

Now that is a trickier question, I would be careful companies can be very sensitive about this, I would personally seek permission first.

 

[Faldrax]

I think this might be one of those that is unlikely to get a definitive answer on a forum, as it is a combination of general rule on copyright and employment law.

In general, if you do something as part of your work, then your employer has the rights to what you do - but it will depend on your employment contract.
When you then move to something done outside of your normal work hours, but at the request of the company (and, as it's on their premises, and for their literature, clearly related to their business) then things get less clear cut.

I suspect if there was a disagreement on this one, the only 'winners' would be the lawyers

 

[paulcorbettphotography]

Is there any rules in general that I need to know of........

 

[gramps]

Basically taking photos in a public place is okay, (a place to which the public have access may not be a public place!).
Taking photos in a non-public place may well require permission, including possibly a licence and payment ... or permission may be refused.

 

[Faldrax]

The thing that makes is complex is that you were asked to do this by your employer.

If you had (without being asked) taken the photos from public land, or private land where there were no restrictions on photography, then it's simple - you took the photos, you hold copyright.

But you did so in response to a request from your employer - so it all comes down to your contract, and what, if anything, it says in relation to activities performed by you on behalf of the company - which MAY state that things like IP or Copyright are automatically transferred to your employer - the fact that you chose to do so in your own time may not be relevant.

If you cannot come to an amicable agreement with your employer over this then you would need to get some suitable legal advice, but unless you think there is high value associated to them, it probably won't be worth it.

 

[StewartR]

The thing that makes is complex is that you were asked to do this by your employer.

If you had (without being asked) taken the photos from public land, or private land where there were no restrictions on photography, then it's simple - you took the photos, you hold copyright.

But you did so in response to a request from your employer - so it all comes down to your contract, and what, if anything, it says in relation to activities performed by you on behalf of the company - which MAY state that things like IP or Copyright are automatically transferred to your employer - the fact that you chose to do so in your own time may not be relevant.

If you cannot come to an amicable agreement with your employer over this then you would need to get some suitable legal advice, but unless you think there is high value associated to them, it probably won't be worth it.

Great answer.

 

[MWHCVT]

The thing that makes is complex is that you were asked to do this by your employer.

If you had (without being asked) taken the photos from public land, or private land where there were no restrictions on photography, then it's simple - you took the photos, you hold copyright.

But you did so in response to a request from your employer - so it all comes down to your contract, and what, if anything, it says in relation to activities performed by you on behalf of the company - which MAY state that things like IP or Copyright are automatically transferred to your employer - the fact that you chose to do so in your own time may not be relevant.

If you cannot come to an amicable agreement with your employer over this then you would need to get some suitable legal advice, but unless you think there is high value associated to them, it probably won't be worth it.

This is nail, head interface post....absolutely spot

To be honest to the OP you've gone into this completely blind almost deer in the headlights like, it's akin to to trying to unmake a cup of tea now...you've been flattered almost into taking some photos for free for them...really what you should have done is take these and process them in works time, or be paid to do it in your own time...it's too late now to be making up terms for use, you need to agree this before you even take your camera out the bag...Now you've got done it and handed the photos over right it off to experience and don't make the same mistake in the future...

Also I'm guessing this is a hotel from the way you've described it so talk of the public place is totally wrong it's not public at all so if the hotel can set any terms they want within the law on the premises..so be careful what advice you take on that front...same with copyright...it's normally petty clear cut but in this instance it's not

 

[Lindsay D]

In a public place and as long as you are not using the image for monetary gain then yes, otherwise street photography would be dead.

That's incorrect - you can sell your images for 'newsworthy, educational or artistic' purposes without consent being a requirement (edit: notwithstanding specific breaches of privacy, but that's rare). However if the images were to be used commercially (and that means to advertise or promote something, rather than simply being sold for money) then it is always advisable to get the consent of recognisable persons or property owners, to avoid those persons taking exception to their likeness endorsing whatever product or service the photograph may end up advertising. This is why most stock agencies require the requisite permissions to be in place.

 

[Steve]

Paul,

Do you want to keep working for this employer, and do you think you have a future with them?

If yes, I would be inclined just to let it drop, as it's not worth aggravating them and getting labelled as a troublemaker over a crediting issue. Write this one off to experience and save your battles for another time.

If no, then don't be afraid to make a fuss over it and get the credit you deserve.

 

[Phil V]

This is nail, head interface post....absolutely spot

To be honest to the OP you've gone into this completely blind almost deer in the headlights like, it's akin to to trying to unmake a cup of tea now...you've been flattered almost into taking some photos for free for them...really what you should have done is take these and process them in works time, or be paid to do it in your own time...it's too late now to be making up terms for use, you need to agree this before you even take your camera out the bag...Now you've got done it and handed the photos over right it off to experience and don't make the same mistake in the future...

Also I'm guessing this is a hotel from the way you've described it so talk of the public place is totally wrong it's not public at all so if the hotel can set any terms they want within the law on the premises..so be careful what advice you take on that front...same with copyright...it's normally petty clear cut but in this instance it's not

What Matthew said.
You needed advice up front, before you picked up the camera the terms should have been set.

Your choice now (as Steve said) is to chalk it up to experience or become a troublemaker. You might think that's unfair, but there's a life lesson... When someone asks 'a favour' make sure you have agreed something you're happy to do.

 

[big soft moose]

Paul,

Do you want to keep working for this employer, and do you think you have a future with them?

If yes, I would be inclined just to let it drop, as it's not worth aggravating them and getting labelled as a troublemaker over a crediting issue. Write this one off to experience and save your battles for another time.

If no, then don't be afraid to make a fuss over it and get the credit you deserve.

or more sailently 'if no check your contract to see what it says about copyright and IP , per faldrax's post above. ' my contract says my employer has copyright/IP to anything "created in the course of my employment" - this basically means that any pictures i take while at work belong to them not to me. (although tbf they do usually credit employees by name)

If your contract is similar this will then turn on whether you were legally 'at work' when you took the pics - given that you were performing a service requested by your employer on company premises the chances are good that you were, regardless of whether you were actually paid for your time - you might have a claim for either pay or TOIL in these circs but not for any rights over the pictures

 

[st599]

or more sailently 'if no check your contract to see what it says about copyright and IP , per faldrax's post above. ' my contract says my employer has copyright/IP to anything "created in the course of my employment" - this basically means that any pictures i take while at work belong to them not to me. (although tbf they do usually credit employees by name)

If your contract is similar this will then turn on whether you were legally 'at work' when you took the pics - given that you were performing a service requested by your employer on company premises the chances are good that you were, regardless of whether you were actually paid for your time - you might have a claim for either pay or TOIL in these circs but not for any rights over the pictures

Not necessarily. I have that clause, but as I work in engineering it only covers my designs, patents etc. I'm not paid as a photographer so images don't count.

 

[big soft moose]

Not necessarily. I have that clause, but as I work in engineering it only covers my designs, patents etc. I'm not paid as a photographer so images don't count.

you think ?

If it says 'all works' then thats what it means - your employer might choose not to enforce it , but technically if you have that clause your employer owns the IP on everything you create in the course of your employment. Regardless of what your principal occupation is, if you have that clause, if they ask you to do some photography on company premises (as with the op) then they own the copyright to it

 

[st599]

you think ?

If it says 'all works' then thats what it means - your employer might choose not to enforce it , but technically if you have that clause your employer owns the IP on everything you create in the course of your employment. Regardless of what your principal occupation is, if you have that clause, if they ask you to do some photography on company premises (as with the op) then they own the copyright to it

Not according to our IP Lawyer.

 

[Phil V]

Not according to our IP Lawyer.

Then I'm guessing that's been debated and covered in the contract. Most contracts are fairly lazily written and would include anything you produce in the course of your employment (and why wouldn't they? It's easier to create an exception than argue every time a 'different' medium for your work comes along)

 

[big soft moose]

Not according to our IP Lawyer.

Fair enough - but it sounds as though the OP hasn't had that level of advice (if he had he wouldnt be asking on a forum)

My contract terms are pretty explicit , anything created in the course of your employment (which they define as anything requested by the employer or required as part of assigned duties) the IP is assignmed to the employer - pictures, text, inventions etc.

Sailent point here is not to argue as both you and I know exactly what our contracts say - point being that the OP needs to know likewise before he considers going the troublemaker route

 

[paulcorbettphotography]

okay guys I've had a mix response from everyone within the thread many thanks...next question is.....Since they haven't paid for the photo's and haven't given me credit towards the photos do I still own them if I've signed saying they can use the photos.....all the letter said was Can we use the photos within the wedding booklet and website without your charge. it didn't say can we have them......

 

[big soft moose]

okay guys I've had a mix response from everyone within the thread many thanks...next question is.....Since they haven't paid for the photo's and haven't given me credit towards the photos do I still own them if I've signed saying they can use the photos.....all the letter said was Can we use the photos within the wedding booklet and website without your charge. it didn't say can we have them......

per the above you need to check what your contract says about works created in the course of your employment

that aside signing to say they can use them doesnt materially alter ownership - its essentially assigning a licence for non exclusive use (which is fine if you do indeed own the copyright)

 

[Phil V]

per the above you need to check what your contract says about works created in the course of your employment

that aside signing to say they can use them doesnt materially alter ownership - its essentially assigning a licence for non exclusive use (which is fine if you do indeed own the copyright)

What he said (and to be fair, was all available previously in the thread).

 

[MartynK]

okay guys I've had a mix response from everyone within the thread many thanks...next question is.....Since they haven't paid for the photo's and haven't given me credit towards the photos do I still own them if I've signed saying they can use the photos.....all the letter said was Can we use the photos within the wedding booklet and website without your charge. it didn't say can we have them......

Paul. If you hold the copyright, you still "own" the images. Payment and credits are irrelevant in this context, unless you've agreed to transfer the copyright to the other party subject to some condition. Granting permission to use the images doesn't affect this. If your employer holds the copyright, because you took the photographs "in the course of employment", then it simply doesn't arise. You have no rights to the images, and can't do anything with them at all, unless you get the copyright holder's permission.

I don't know who owns the copyright in this case, but others have advised you on it.

 

[Ulfric M Douglas]

Paul what is your job at this place?