My print prices - fair ?

dazzajl said:
You're not buying a print. You are buying an image and you should pay for it..... lots!

If someone wants a 10x8 for £8 or whatever, let them print one of their own photos. If they want yours, charge them for the art, the materials are, in fact, immaterial.

As for getting good orders, forget all about pricing and discounts and any other "after the event" tactics. Do not let people have proofs, do not let people take time. Show them the merchandise and then ruthlessly pursue a large order.

Personally, I can't stand any of that but it's why venture are hugely successful and the bargain shops are going to the wall.
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Again people are buying prints and not the image, if they owned the image then they could reprint the pictures themselves very cheaply!
 
ThisPhotoGuy said:
Again people are buying prints and not the image, if they owned the image then they could reprint the pictures themselves very cheaply!
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I think what he's saying is, you're not buying a 'print' as such. A print is something that is already printer-ready (ie touched up, cropped, adjusted, cloned, levels etc etc).

When you're buying a wedding print from the tog, you're buying their time and expertise in preparing the image for print, and then the print itself :thumbs:
 
I have heard opinions from people that they enjoyed their Venture shoot but will not do it again because of the print prices. Saying that though, it is a clever selling technique - after a £25 shoot, it seems they show you all the great shots and you have to pay through the nose if you want them - otherwise they'll be lost to you.

I wonder whether people prefer to pay money up front and then pay for the prints they want for an additional price or whether the cheaper upfront charge is more attractive coupled with expensive prints.

I suppose it depends on whether the prints are viewed as unique art or prints to send to Gran!
 
ThisPhotoGuy said:
Again people are buying prints and not the image, if they owned the image then they could reprint the pictures themselves very cheaply!
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Ok, perhaps it would have been more clear if I'd have said, you're not buying JUST a print but the right to see that image and have it in your home.

The image that was created by an artist and couldn't have been shot by anyone else. That time, talent and creativity should have a value and be charged for accordingly. Fine, if a snapper doesn't actually have the talent then give the stuff away for peanuts because you'd be right. That's all it's worth.

If you feel that your work is good and you want to stand proud and stand by it, bloomin charge for it. I know I do and you know what, the more I charge the more people seem to value it.

You simply cant be big by thinking small.
 
yep, totally agree on the fact that you're not JUST buying a print, that's really the last thing the client is buying, there's the actual IMAGE itself that is being sold, which took time to take, process/edit, etc. though i can't really talk as i got told off by a t.p. member saying i shouldn't be charing, and then another saying i was waaay to cheap, lol. shall see how the wind blows :D xxx
 
lot of good sense being talked in this thread!
 
It was touched on earlier but you need to think WHY some print prices are expensive.

Cost of capital - pro'#s spend a LOT of money on top quality gear - cameras and lenses (not your 350D and 18-55!

Time costs money. Would you be happy earning the minimum wage? The photographer has to MAKE money.

The pro generally has tax, VAT, wages, rent, rates etc to pay......

And again there has to be some profit.

Taking all this into consideration, many may not declare their earnings to the tax man. Many shoot part time and don't pay rent/rates etc. Many shoot with prosumer cameras like the XT (although it is a great camera) and consumer lenses like the 18-55.

Do not bring down a pro who charges a lot. Photography is an art. Venture images are great and they do charge a lot but think how much capital they have spent to enable them to produce their images. It is many thousands of pounds.

Starting out it is easy to charge a low amount however not everyone will buy your images. Charge enoughto try and cover your time. If you can get some guarantee of print sales this may help you.

After your first and second you'll get an idea what you need to charge to make it worth your while.

Some great in this thread.... read it and learn why others charge what they do.

Cheers
JD
 
just go for it mate

everyone starts somewhere and the experience is what you need

If you know alot of these people then use discounts but at the same time no one can resist pictures of their own family and im sure you will sell plenty.

you will get some....profit , experience and prob a fun day out of it

good luck :thumbs:
 
Hi

I'm just trying to kick-start a semi-pro business doing the odd portrait session / social etc (and yes the taxman does know about me) and've been through this route, so here's my two pence worth..

2 things that I've discovered..

firstly, if your plan is to start cheap to get a name and the will put your prices up, forget it. Once you're know for giving a low price it's nearly impossible to increase your prices without loosing face.

Secondly... if you're cheap people wont think you're any good good. If you want people to respect you and appreciate what you're doing you need to be asking for a fair rate for a fair amount of work

Thirdly (I never was any good at maths) do the sums. How much time are you really spending in total on each image. Average it out over the whole "job" then see what hourly rate you're ending up with. Are you happy with that?

And lastly, don't scrimp on the print quality. I've used Photobox and, yes they are magically quick and cheap but I've found them not to be very consistant. Very good when the images are bright and well exposed but not too reliable for lower-key images. I personally use Loxley and although they're a bit more expensive, as long as you tell them not to colour-correct the images they're very good.

Hope that helps...

Sam
 
alot of sense there samS :thumbs:
 
interesting thread.

I look at it like this.

A famous painter has sold a painting for a million pound,

and nobody says its just oils on canvas.

they are paying for the 'art'

the same should be said of a photo although i am not suggesting you sell 6 x 4 's for a million quid. ha ha
 
Well it's a bit early for me but:beer:

Glad to hear it went well for you:thumbs: May I ask what pricing structure you decided on in the end?
 
Eric Mc said:
Well it's a bit early for me but:beer:

Glad to hear it went well for you:thumbs: May I ask what pricing structure you decided on in the end?
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Of course.....

6 x 4 (15cm x 10 cm) Gloss (£3.00 GBP)

7 x 5 (18cm x 12.5cm) Gloss (£7.00 GBP)

10 x 8 (25cm x 20cm) Gloss (£13.00 GBP)

A4 (29.7cm x 21cm) Gloss (£15.00 GBP)

A3 (42cm x 29.7cm) Gloss (£25.00 GBP)
 
I wasn't aware there was a limit, afaik IR want to know about all your income.
 
I believe you're allowed to earn up to £5.5k before you need to declare. Anything over this, basic tax will apply...
 
Do you mean tax free income? That's defined by your tax code which might be something like 460L or 550L, drop the letter and add a zero and that's the income you're allowed to earn before tax is deducted - when you're self-employed it's profit and not income that's taxed so you need to make 5500 profit before you pay tax.

Regardless, you need register as self-employed within 3 months or risk the taxman paying a visit with his fine tooth comb :(
 
pxl8 said:
Do you mean tax free income? That's defined by your tax code which might be something like 460L or 550L, drop the letter and add a zero and that's the income you're allowed to earn before tax is deducted - when you're self-employed it's profit and not income that's taxed so you need to make 5500 profit before you pay tax.

Regardless, you need register as self-employed within 3 months or risk the taxman paying a visit with his fine tooth comb :(
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Yup, thats how I understand it aswell, I have an appointment with a mate thats an accountant, he said he will look after it all and keep it all above board, its all quite exciting :)
 
Keltic Ice Man said:
So anyone that gets money for prints in any way needs to register. :thinking:
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Basically, yes. The revenue want to know about every penny you get more or less and then they'll tell you if you need to cough up.
 
The tax man can only chase you for money that he knows you've earnt. Shoddy or absent record keeping may make his task impossible - not that I'm advocating being naughty :).

Taxmen are really only seriously interested in the biggest evaders. Earning a couple of quid every once in a while is not going to the rock the boat. It's down to you on morals and the risk you want to run.
 
Of course, a good reason to declare if you're only earning a few quid is that when you take the expenses into account you'll likely show a loss and get some of the PAYE tax refunded :thumbs:
 
Plugus Maximus said:
The tax man can only chase you for money that he knows you've earnt. Shoddy or absent record keeping may make his task impossible - not that I'm advocating being naughty :).

Taxmen are really only seriously interested in the biggest evaders. Earning a couple of quid every once in a while is not going to the rock the boat. It's down to you on morals and the risk you want to run.
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Fair play but I really don't want HMCE on my case and when you are selling to guests from Christenings and Weddings , do you know who you who you are selling to ? I would rather be safe than sorry, even if it does cost me a couple of quid !

Taxmen are interested in anyone evading and if they get a chance at a chancer they will take the chance ;)

Not a conversation you want to be having on the internet mate !
 
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