My latest hilite shots

Hodders

Hodders

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Ben
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Well fresh back from my latest session. This time as promised with my wife and kids as models.

I am also after a list of props that people enjoy using in this situation and what works well in terms of poses and instructions....

Feedback as always would be awesome.

Anyway - here we go:

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Love the reflections. What are you using, and any chance of a photo of the setup without the lights on?
 
The photos look good and clean. Maybe you could get more resolution out by composing tighter compositions (ie. zoom in), and then add the white area back in post.

P.S. Where did you buy the acrylic sheet?
 
I am concious about the composition - as you say adding 'white' is easy ! But I also run teh risk of cropping in too tight and missing a hand if the kiddy moves. The answer (as I keep telling my wife) is a 5d2 !

Acyrlic sheet can be got from the larger Wickes or B&Qs for about £25 per sheet of 2mm x 1.8m x 1m.
 
Nice poses, nice expressions - but the same problems as before. Grossly overexposed background, which has destroyed the fine edge detail. From the look of it, I would guess that the background is overexposed by'at least 2 stops instead of the 1/2 stop needed
 
The exposures were set by lighting the subject and then slowly increasing the background until the blinkies lit up across the majority of the hilite.

I think that one issue I have is trying to get the hilite evenly lit as it does start to white out about 1.5 stops before it mostly whites out. So yes the BG in parts is about 1.5 stops too bright.

The hilite is not a Lastolite original but a Chinese copy and I think that it is now-where as easy to get uniform as the Lastolite version for several key reasons.

Does anyone know how 'uniform' it is possible to get a lastolite hilite with two strobes and standard reflectors ?

Garry - would the Lencarta background reflectors be useful *inside* the hilite as a way of making the lighting more even ?
 
Hodders said:
I am concious about the composition - as you say adding 'white' is easy ! But I also run teh risk of cropping in too tight and missing a hand if the kiddy moves. The answer (as I keep telling my wife) is a 5d2 !

Acyrlic sheet can be got from the larger Wickes or B&Qs for about £25 per sheet of 2mm x 1.8m x 1m.
Click to expand...

I must remember that one!

Love the shots too. A little bit more wrap than I like, but they work well.
 
Hodders said:
The exposures were set by lighting the subject and then slowly increasing the background until the blinkies lit up across the majority of the hilite.

I think that one issue I have is trying to get the hilite evenly lit as it does start to white out about 1.5 stops before it mostly whites out. So yes the BG in parts is about 1.5 stops too bright.

The hilite is not a Lastolite original but a Chinese copy and I think that it is now-where as easy to get uniform as the Lastolite version for several key reasons.

Does anyone know how 'uniform' it is possible to get a lastolite hilite with two strobes and standard reflectors ?

Garry - would the Lencarta background reflectors be useful *inside* the hilite as a way of making the lighting more even ?
Click to expand...

Well, it's a Chinese copy of a Chinese copy of a softbox - so what? I think it's inevitable that the overpriced Hi-Lite has been copied (in fact it's been copied by several different firms). Your problem is that you are grossly overexposing the background, and if your softbox background isn't evenly lit enough then you need to accept that you will have PP to do, whitening grey areas, if you insist on having a blown white background - unless of course the badly damaged edges of your subject are acceptable to you, in which case you can carry on as you are.

No, the background reflectors are for the background solution you had before, they are unlikely to be much use in your softbox background.
 
They're great Hodders - you must be well chuffed. I love the kid with the brolly, works really well!. Did you have to do much post? They look fabulously sharp!. I had some friends over for a shoot at the weekend and got a few good ones too:

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A mixture of post applied and I stuck to not blowing out the background as I've not got enough space to counter the enormous amount of wrap it would cause so I had to white it out in post too.
 
Are you downloading the photos as you increase the background to a computer, or just relying on the blinkies?
 
Lovely photos. I agree about the overexposed background though, still too much wrap IMHO. I'd do as Shutterbox suggests. Using a prop, take a few photos with the Hilite lights on different settings and see what the results are on a computer.

In terms of props, it may be worth reviving this thread: http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=156735

Poses:
Every pose do: full length, 1/2, and close up
Kids laying / sitting / standing
Go through Google images / stock library
Families - just telling them to hug works well!
 
They're looking good, Ben.

Stating the obvious here, but if you have the room, have you tried moving the subject away from the BG and shooting further away with a longer lens? Tighter angle of view of course to still have the hilite filling the frame, and would only work for one-person shots.

I appreciate it's a compromise of sorts having to balance optimisations to get a single shot spot on on the one hand and having a "one setting suits all compositions" on the other. :)
 
I think you can guess my response Ben ;) The problem is that the FITP High-Light is poorly designed and is fundamentally different to the original Lastolite HiLite - you will never get it evenly lit.

As a result, to get pure white all over even in the darkest areas, you have to blitz it and the result is hot spots that are way too far over-exposed and, IMHO, ruining all your hard work. The amount of bleaching and flare around the top hat suggest more than two stops to my eye. Compare your shots to Edinburgh Gary's in his thread today - that is the standard you should be able to achieve. You could do that with a genuine HiLite, or even with a regular paper background if you have a little more space.

Given where you are, I would arrange your background lights as best you can to give pure white in the centre, just behind the subject, and let the rest go grey. At least you can sort that out in post processing, but you can do nothing about the bleaching you have now.
 
I do like the one of the little chap with the brolly, it's just a shame about the blown background, but from looking at your earlier shots your certainly getting there, i was looking at that those perspex sheets while i was in Wickes yesterday, just a bit to small for what i want so as not to have to join them, anyone know of anywhere else that sells bigger sizes ?

Hoppy what is the main differences in FITP,s Hi lite and the lastolite one ?
 
TG - slightly bigger ones available at B&Q (not online though) - about a foot wider than the Wickes ones I think.
 
Jchaplin said:
TG - slightly bigger ones available at B&Q (not online though) - about a foot wider than the Wickes ones I think.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jeremy, their's a couple of B&Q,s near me, i will take a look :thumbs:
 
TG. said:
I do like the one of the little chap with the brolly, it's just a shame about the blown background, but from looking at your earlier shots your certainly getting there, i was looking at that those perspex sheets while i was in Wickes yesterday, just a bit to small for what i want so as not to have to join them, anyone know of anywhere else that sells bigger sizes ?

Hoppy what is the main differences in FITP,s Hi lite and the lastolite one ?
Click to expand...

The Lastolite HiLite has white corners inside (now fixed with a retro-fit mod to the FITP versions), it has an opaque back, almost opaque sides, and a much thicker front diffuser.

The result with the FITP version is that most of the light goes out of the back and sides, instead of being reflected back and around inside as with the Lastolite. It is the internal reflection which gives the Lastolite HiLite its evenness.
 
HoppyUK said:
I think you can guess my response Ben ;) The problem is that the FITP High-Light is poorly designed and is fundamentally different to the original Lastolite HiLite - you will never get it evenly lit.

As a result, to get pure white all over even in the darkest areas, you have to blitz it and the result is hot spots that are way too far over-exposed and, IMHO, ruining all your hard work. The amount of bleaching and flare around the top hat suggest more than two stops to my eye. Compare your shots to Edinburgh Gary's in his thread today - that is the standard you should be able to achieve. You could do that with a genuine HiLite, or even with a regular paper background if you have a little more space.

Given where you are, I would arrange your background lights as best you can to give pure white in the centre, just behind the subject, and let the rest go grey. At least you can sort that out in post processing, but you can do nothing about the bleaching you have now.
Click to expand...
I agree that the level of overexposure (and presumably, the level of uneveness) is very high. This is what is causing the problem.

I don't really agree that you should be aiming to achieve what 'Edinburgh Gary' has set out to achieve. I have great respect for the effort he has made/is making but, as he points out, he is trying to achieve results that require no PP for purely commercial reasons. You are not doing it for commercial reasons and the only way forward for you, now that you have decided not to use a normal background and to rely on this backlit background instead, is to underexpose as little as possible and do extra work in PP.
 
HI there,

I think this work is excellent and would love to be able to achieve it as the amount of Photoshopping i do is massive and the reflection adds another dimension of quality, the flaring is a little bit distracting, but in the real world it works fine.
What settings have you got on the lights and where do you measure the hilite from the subject or the hilite itself?

I know i need to go back to basics

NIK
 
What I do is to set up the key light and get that exposed right. Then slowly bring up the hilite until it just clips white over most of itself.

So in summary:

1) Meter for subject using key - aim at about f8
2) Bring up hilite lights until hilite clips keeping camera at f8

I found that measuring at the hilite was of limited use as the key light added to the light coming from the hilite. The key to these shots is to use as little light in the hilite as possible in order to keep contrast and detail on the subject.

This is where lighting the hilite evenly is paramount so as to avoid hotspots that might be 2 or 3 stops overdone. It is this last point where I am having the most challenges.

You can avoid the hotspots if you accept a degree of PP in order to clean up the whites.

It is all good fun though.
 
Hi,

Sorry to be crawling into this topic, but I have read it with great interest :)

First of all, I love the pictures! Especially the little boy with the umbrella, very cute!

I have been trying to understand the "wrap" thing. But after comparing these shots to those of 'Edinburgh Gary' (thanks for the tip), I think I have it figured out. Is wrap, or better the lack thereof, what gives some shots a look of extreme sharpness? Full colour all the way to the edges?
And do I understand correct that wrap is caused by having too much light on your background so that it bounces back to your subject?

Thanks for helping me out, apologies for the intrusion ;)
 
Ellekes said:
Hi,

Sorry to be crawling into this topic, but I have read it with great interest :)

First of all, I love the pictures! Especially the little boy with the umbrella, very cute!

I have been trying to understand the "wrap" thing. But after comparing these shots to those of 'Edinburgh Gary' (thanks for the tip), I think I have it figured out. Is wrap, or better the lack thereof, what gives some shots a look of extreme sharpness? Full colour all the way to the edges?
And do I understand correct that wrap is caused by having too much light on your background so that it bounces back to your subject?

Thanks for helping me out, apologies for the intrusion ;)
Click to expand...


Hya,

Wrap is basically LIGHT from the backdrop "wrapping around" your subjects, or at least, that's my basic understanding. The sharpness / colours is altogether different (although extreme wrap will remove saturation).

I like to shoot extremely bright, but I took it too far recently and have toned it down massively. I enjoy mega deep saturation too, and a lot of contrast - I basically want the subject to pop out the photo if that makes sense....

My in camera profile as a result, has the contrast ramped up to the top, the saturation up a notch or two, and I increase sharpness in camera slightly. I use these files, untouched, for viewing, and only process photos which are sold.

I am currently trying to sort out a colour inbalance (again in camera), and once done, and once I feel confident enough that the photos are the best possible (out of camera), I will write a guide on exactly what I have done in the studio and in camera....

Please bear in mind, I am probably in the minority with my approach - I absolutely push those colours and contrasts more than is natural, I love it, but many poeple have taken issue with it on the forum - probably as a result of the over exposure mixed into the equation. I think I have almost nailed that problem though...

G.
 
Another point on wrap....the bigger the backdrop in relation to your subject - the more wrap I think. The brighter, the more problems with over exposure on your subject. A good test (I feel) is to try and get an evenly lit backdrop and a perfectly silhouetted subject, as close as possible to your backdrop. I have managed a 255 white backdrop (or close to it), and an almost black subject, with about 3ft seperation between a 4metre x 4metre backlit wall and the subject...

G.
 
Hi,
This photography is really great and without the post production, which is a real pain for me.

I am still not quite getting it "forgive my stupidity".

Do you use the 2mm acrylic sheets if so does that create post production problems ie getting rid of the joins of the acrylic sheets.

2) Bring up hilite lights until hilite clips keeping camera at f8
Click to expand...

what does that mean? clips.

Do you also use cups to push up the background join would a cardboard tube do the same job?

Thanks
NIK
 
Nick, clipping here is referring to "digital clipping" which is when the recorded amount is above what the measuring device can measure. It's like just beyond maximum.

So in this case, it means getting pure white because the red, green and blue recorded colours on the camera's sensor have hit their maximum values.

Whether you're clipping just a bit or a lot makes no difference in terms of what the sensor picks up; a little bit over maximum or a hell of a lot over maximum is still just "maximum". However, in terms of photography, you get the flare and other side effects of having way too much brightness.

So in the best scenario, you want to clip (to get pure white), but not overdo it so that wrap, flare, etc, all become visible issues :)
 
excellent explanation
thanks
nik
 
I have just sold the FITP hilite and have replaced it with a lastolite version. The difference in how even the light is is massive.

The FITP version is excellent value and certainly allows some good images as shown by all the people who have posted their efforts. The Lastolite version is a lot more expensive but I plane to take this seriously and I want to produce the best results I can.

The lastolite version produces the following - basically less than a stop over the whole area. The best I could get with the FITP version was about 2.5 stops. I've got a session booked for tomorrow morning and really look forward to getting a step up in the images I should be able to achieve. Lights were aimed at the middle of the back panel with standard reflectors on.

Anyway the following shots have just had clipping turned on in LR2 and then the screen images captured.

F11
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F10
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F9
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F8
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The difference is massive glad i've got the lastolite,
the black edges are a pain though.
Have you tried using a super bright white vinyl, were you successful and where did you get it from.
I do a lot of these shots and would find the pp fixing the join in photoshop a real pain.

Any thoughts?

Nik
 
I've ended up with some white vinyl from Tony Beal Ltd and 3 sheets of acrylic to give the reflections. The results are in the first post in this thread.
 
The two sessions this morning went pretty well.

I'll post a couple of images later.... Just putting the kids to bed at the moment.... We're going on a bear hunt, we're going to catch a big one, what a beautiful day, we're not scared.
 
OK - here we go.....

These are from this afternoon's session. They did require a little more PP but not much more than a bit of exposure, blacks and adjustment brush. Compared to the first post in this thread, I am a lot happier. Impressions, critique all gratefully received. Please note that I would spend more time on these if I was actually going to print them as there is still a bit of trimming/cropping to be done.

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Technically, I think these are rather good, Ben :)

There's no real bleed or noticable flare, and I like it how some of the key light is brightening up the hair more than the BG is. There's a very clear separation between the BG and the subject (from a lighting perspective).

It may lack a bit of punch and saturation, but I like the subdued tones. Gives it a more authentic look. I also like the shadows. Nice change from just blasting everything with light ;)

Only noticed there seems to be a bit of a faint ghost hadow on the bean bag reflection in the floor on the right. Not sure if that's a result of quick and dirty PP or if originally like that. Or it could just be my eyes! :nuts:

I'd be well happy with those results :thumbs:
 
tfboy said:
Technically, I think these are rather good, Ben :)

There's no real bleed or noticable flare, and I like it how some of the key light is brightening up the hair more than the BG is. There's a very clear separation between the BG and the subject (from a lighting perspective).

It may lack a bit of punch and saturation, but I like the subdued tones. Gives it a more authentic look. I also like the shadows. Nice change from just blasting everything with light ;)

Only noticed there seems to be a bit of a faint ghost hadow on the bean bag reflection in the floor on the right. Not sure if that's a result of quick and dirty PP or if originally like that. Or it could just be my eyes! :nuts:

I'd be well happy with those results :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Cheers - there is a ghost shadow caused by the join in the flooring - is easy to get rid of by just blurring over it - well spotted.

I must admit the lastolite has made a big difference (it feels to me) as it is possible to minimise the PP and not get so much light splashing around.

I was trying *really* hard here to get better separation and less edge definition loss and did have a bit more PP involved. But I am well pleased with what is basically a portable setup - I am beginning to believe that you need the kind of light control that only comes from a studio to get round some of the issues here.
 
True, but if you can have a portable set up in a large, dark space like that hall you were in, you're in a pretty good environment. Certainly better than people's lounges with magnolia coloured wall! :D

Reassuring to know the Lastolite works well and has even spread. I put mine up the other day, but yet to use it properly and spent ages trying to fold it up, cursing, then realised the a metal band had "twisted" and so prevented it folding up.

I think you're doing pretty damn well to be honest. A "portable" studio which gives near studio-like quality in a mobile, flexible environment is always going to be tricky and damn near impossible to end up with perfect shots SOOC, needing no PP.
 
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