My last question before Saturday

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I haven't yet, as a new mod, given any infractions yet. I've also had a very good evening where I won at bingo tonight (no old jokes please), please don't upset my night, thanks.
 
footysnapper said:
Togs?
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thats 3 then. What happened, did someone send at least 3 texts and some facebook messages out?

If you're all plants, then its making some sports agency togs look like blithering idiots.

Our long standing members have been getting on very well, they have intelligent conversations and a good bit of banter and teach each other and those that want to learn by sharing and having good discussions. It seems that there is a faction of 'professionals' that suffer from Massive Chip on Shoulder Syndrome.
 
Is the sports section turning into the new Weddings section?
 
fracster said:
Is the sports section turning into the new Weddings section?
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If it means that I have to wear White, then I'm not playing ducky, although I might bought off with a nice little ivory number!

For what it's worth I've bumped into Reefer on another forum, but I don't know his background.
 
Wear what you want bud, that pink tutu doesn`t suit though................:D


I kinda like reading stuff in here, though I have no interest in the sports associated, I pick good tips up for the stuff I do. Would hate it to be binned for the sake of some more neanderthal pros.

|Keep up the good work.


PS.............your nag shots with the new siggy ain`t too bad..............:naughty:
 
reefer110 said:
With regard to ... "There isn't be much point in working for an agency for free (they'd have a tough time renewing their license with the FL at the end of the season without any proof of sales that's for sure!)"

All the agency needs to prove is that they sold 'x' amount of pics to recognised outlets to renew the license....they dont need to show they paid you.
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Missed this bit upon first reading. I didn't realise that, thanks for the insight. But don't worry, as Gary said before, we all understand how imperitave it is that all sports (and all other) photographers are properly paid for their work and I wouldn't dream of working for any organisation that try to take advantage of my hard work for free. :thumbs:
 
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fracster said:
Wear what you want bud, that pink tutu doesn`t suit though................:D

I kinda like reading stuff in here, though I have no interest in the sports associated, I pick good tips up for the stuff I do. Would hate it to be binned for the sake of some more neanderthal pros.

|Keep up the good work.

PS.............your nag shots with the new siggy ain`t too bad..............:naughty:
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I'm not surprised- Pink really isn't my colour!

I know exactly what you mean regarding reading about other genres of photography. There are huge parallels in technique between sports & nature ( as I mentioned in Carol's thread) and we can learn a lot from each other.

I suspect that you aren't feeling to well though; that was bloody close to being a compliment! :lol:
 
AFC said:
Hi Phil :wave:, I am so chuffed for you that it all went well and not as bad as you imagined.

Now you've got your foot on the ladder time to start climbing - upwards that is :lol:.

Good luck for the future mate, you deserve it.:thumbs:
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Cheers Martin that means a lot mate :thumbs:

Its a long climb up there but at least i'm on the ladder :D
 
Just to clarify a few things for some people on here.

When I say this was my first professional game, it was but I made this with a year's experience shooting my non league team in all manner of lighting and weather conditions. And with the help and advice of members on here (and a lot of money) I have improved my knowledge and understanding of what it takes to capture sporting action and and along the way slowly gathered the gear that enables me to do so.

On Saturday I got speaking to a seasoned pro who's previous agency work included working for Action Images. Indeed this guy used to shoot sport back in the days of film so that gives you an idea of how experienced he was.

Anyway I told him this was my first pro game and rather than judge me or look down at me he asked if I minded him giving me a tip. I told him of course not as I am prepared to take good constructive advice from anyone. He asked me of my background and also what gear I was shooting with and when I told him he said that I seem to have it all planned out and seemed impressed with my knowledge. He didnt seem too bothered about me being nervous about the wiring side of things.

He also mentioned that i should listen to the pro's and gave a few names that I should take note of and also mentioned Matt Ashton's name. I told him that I have emailed matt a few times regarding my portfolio.

Before I left after the Town game the guy come over to me and wished me well for the future and also gave me his email addy and told me to drop him a line if ever I need advice. He's also agreed to give C&C on my images which I thought was really kind of him.

Just goes to show that there are some good people out there :thumbs:
 
I think that guy just fancies you Phil !!!

Only kidding, glad it went well.
 
Firstly Phil, congrats on the first agency job, secondly a serious well done on having the cojones to both ask questions prior to the match to clear up any niggles that you might have have, and also for posting about the experience afterwards.




If you don't mind I'm going to have a minor (but fairly polite) rant at the so called 'professionals' that have appeared on this subforum over the last week or so...


A couple of posters (generally new ones with one notable exception) have called into question Phil's ability to take on an agency role without having live filed before. Maybe you could solve this slight quandary for me..

How is it possible to practice live filing without having the pressure of a client sitting on your backside waiting for your photographs?

You could set up an FTP box or an email address and file for practice at a non league match that you are shooting for the club, but that just doesn't cut it. If you look back at Phil's posting history you'll see that he did that last season as an experiment and test.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, is a substitute for filing under fire, whether that be pitchside or (in my case) during the middle of a riot, a political demo or a court appearance. Nothing. You can't replicate the pressure, the nerves or the myriad of minor hiccups that can get in your way that you have to work around. It's called learning on the job and there are certain aspects of a photographers role that can only be learnt that way if you aren't going to go down the route of a full NCTJ or similar.

Let's get a couple of things straight. It's all very well sitting in your ivory towers and sniping when you feel like it, but by doing that what you miss out on is the general ambience and feel of this subforum. We have a cross base of sports photographers on here from full time working professionals, through part timers to amateurs and beginners. Each have something to offer and usually something to learn as well.

Almost everyone that I'm aware of on here supports the ethic of no free photography made available to press sources (one of the primary users in the case of sports, event photography aside) and they are soon pointed out why this is so important if they don't.
Not everyone is paid in cash of course, but quid pro quo is an equally valid payment method.

If you want to get involved in a thriving community of sports photographers, that's great. If you want to criticise, equally great, but do it in a positive way so that you illustrate the point that you are making and add to the debate, not detract from it.
If you want to come on here and carp about the lack of professional attitude, have a pop at amateurs, or generally stir up trouble, then quite frankly we don't need you and I'd rather that you didn't bother to log on in the first place. If you don't like what you see here either don't read the forum, or better yet become a positive asset to it.

Finally the professional sports and news world is a small one. Almost everybody on here identifies themselves in some way or other whether it be by using their real name or via a website in their sig block. IF you want to act like an anonymous little troll the likelihood is that at some point you will give away who you really are; whether that is by posting style, IP address or just the general inability to keep your mouth shut and start boast about your huge experience and how wonderful you are. At some point someone will twig your real identity. If you are going to criticise and play the big 'I am', at least have the balls to do it based on your real ID.

In summary: grow up and start acting like professionals rather than a bunch of pathetic children who've spat their dummy out of the pram.

/rant


Mods: feel free to delete if you want, but this is meant as a genuine post and open letter to all those attempting to stir it!
 
redmonkee said:
Just to clarify a few things for some people on here.

When I say this was my first professional game, it was but I made this with a year's experience shooting my non league team in all manner of lighting and weather conditions. And with the help and advice of members on here (and a lot of money) I have improved my knowledge and understanding of what it takes to capture sporting action and and along the way slowly gathered the gear that enables me to do so.

On Saturday I got speaking to a seasoned pro who's previous agency work included working for Action Images. Indeed this guy used to shoot sport back in the days of film so that gives you an idea of how experienced he was.

Anyway I told him this was my first pro game and rather than judge me or look down at me he asked if I minded him giving me a tip. I told him of course not as I am prepared to take good constructive advice from anyone. He asked me of my background and also what gear I was shooting with and when I told him he said that I seem to have it all planned out and seemed impressed with my knowledge. He didnt seem too bothered about me being nervous about the wiring side of things.

He also mentioned that i should listen to the pro's and gave a few names that I should take note of and also mentioned Matt Ashton's name. I told him that I have emailed matt a few times regarding my portfolio.

Before I left after the Town game the guy come over to me and wished me well for the future and also gave me his email addy and told me to drop him a line if ever I need advice. He's also agreed to give C&C on my images which I thought was really kind of him.

Just goes to show that there are some good people out there :thumbs:
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Congratulations Phil, I'm sure this is the beginning of an exciting new chapter for you.:)
 
DemiLion said:
In summary: grow up and start acting like professionals rather than a bunch of pathetic children who've spat their dummy out of the pram.
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Being blunt and to the point, I would have just posted the above and left the rest out...........:lol:

Good post.
 
I hope your post is not aimed at myself. I asked a civil question in a civil manner.
An agency I once contacted made it clear you had to have the full package in order to be able to work for them. The opening post in this thread gives the impression that this is not the case with the agency being worked for. I questioned this.
As for the handful of posts I have made , please feel free to point out any you feel to be boastful of my abilities. No wonder there are so few new posters on here when this is the sort of welcome you get.
 
Not everyone is paid in cash of course, but quid pro quo is an equally valid payment method.

Can you clarify ?
 
whats most interesting is that artur and reefer literally seem to post within 10 minutes of each other ......... what are the chances?

They are either the same person or working together that's very clear
 
This is pathetic. You have just posted with in minutes of the last post. Does that mean you are connected too ?
If all the forums on here are like this , I shall not be learning anything as I will be to afraid to open my mouth.
 
reefer110 said:
Not everyone is paid in cash of course, but quid pro quo is an equally valid payment method.

Can you clarify ?
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Do I really need to, I would have thought that it was obvious?

Training, experience, contacts are all equally valid methods of payment alongside cold hard cash.

Are you really going to tell me that when you started out with a 350D and a Sig 70-200/2.8 in 2004/5 every shoot that you did was for money? I'd be very surprised if it was Marc.

Club photographers rarely get paid, but it's where they earn their spurs and learn their trade.
 
Arthur Bitter said:
I hope your post is not aimed at myself. I asked a civil question in a civil manner.
An agency I once contacted made it clear you had to have the full package in order to be able to work for them. The opening post in this thread gives the impression that this is not the case with the agency being worked for. I questioned this.
As for the handful of posts I have made , please feel free to point out any you feel to be boastful of my abilities. No wonder there are so few new posters on here when this is the sort of welcome you get.
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Arthur Bitter said:
This is pathetic. You have just posted with in minutes of the last post. Does that mean you are connected too ?
If all the forums on here are like this , I shall not be learning anything as I will be to afraid to open my mouth.
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It's a simple case of 'If the cap fits, wear it' Arthur.

If you are here to contribute in a positive way then, like all the other photographers on here, you will be made to feel more than welcome.

If however your sole intention is to snipe at members then the Mods will almost certainly ensure that you aren't here for long.

It's entirely up to you. :)
 
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Quid Pro Quo = the missus cooks and I mow the lawn :D
 
DemiLion said:
It's a simple case of 'If the cap fits, wear it' Arthur.

If you are hear to contribute in a positive way then, like all the other photographers on here, you will be made to feel more than welcome.

If however your sole intention is to snipe at members then the Mods will almost certainly ensure that you aren't here for long.

It's entirely up to you. :)
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This man speaks the truth. Either make a positive contribution or shut up and leave. I don't care which to be honest. This childish sniping really is pathetic and not what I'd expect from professionals.
 
I'll just back that up too. We're sick of it.

Permabans are very close to being handed out. And rallying round friends to sign up to cause trouble won't be tolerated either.
 
From my point of view, Redmonkee is an inspiration. I shoot sports part time (and do get paid) and absolutely love it. It's the best job in the world for me and I would love to venture further into it and possibly make a career. Although it is expansive to buy gear etc. it's a price worth paying (I don't spend money on smoking, alcohol or doing my car up etc - you know what I mean?) It's a hobby and passion for me and it is something I will hopefully be able to continue doing for as long as I can.

It is great to see someone who has the same experience as me and dedication to the art who has been able to break into an area that for myself has looked very daunting. It has given me some inspiration for when the time is right I could potentially make it into the 'professional' section. The problem that I see is there is a lot of people out there who are in their comfort zone and are scared of young and motivated people coming in and making a success for themselves. As well as shooting, I love looking at other people's work. I enjoy looking from all the papers in the supermarket on a Sunday morning looking at what has been put it and the techniques used. There has been many times where I say WOW that's a great shot and there are times when I say I could do that!

I look on these forums regularly, don't often post, but have followed Redmonkee's progress over the year. He certainly deserves his success based on his enthusiasm and determination he has given. By coming on here just before the game asking for a few tips shouldn't be shot down as being unprofessional but instead applauded as someone who wants to keep to his high standards, deliver for his agency and prepared to accept that the hard work that has got him here so far will only put his in good stead to go on and achieve better things.
 
DemiLion said:
Club photographers rarely get paid, but it's where they earn their spurs and learn their trade.
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100% right there Mark. As you know I am one of the club photographers for Southend RFC and I dont get paid, unless I get one of my shots sent to the local rags and then I get paid a set fee.

As a thank you from the club I get a free years club membership, taken to away matches so no driving or petrol costs.

Come rain, shine, snow, hail etc etc etc I love it and wouldn't miss it for the world.
 
Same here Martin, I'm club photographer for my rugby club and for my Sunday League football team and it suits me fine. I get beers bought for me though
 
So it's a case of agree to the sentiments of every poster who has a longer posting history or clear off then? In that case I see no point in asking any more questions or passing on any of my experiences. I'll just sit on the fence then.
 
That's not the case at all Arthur and you are more than welcome to contribute to the site. We have an active Sports Photo Sharing section where people can give constructive and polite criticism on the photos. I wouldn't have improved in my photography if it wasn't for comments on here.

Everyone is welcome here but we like to keep it a happy place. There are ways of getting your point across in a pleasant way. You don't have to agree with everyone, if we did all agree, lilfe would be very boring indeed

Stick around, have a browse of the posts and have a look in the sharing and by all means, share your experiences with us
 
kelack said:
Same here Martin, I'm club photographer for my rugby club and for my Sunday League football team and it suits me fine. I get beers bought for me though
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Got any vacancies?....:lol:

And I'm doing my stepsons football team on a Sunday as well from this season.:thumbs:
 
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Nope :D my beer :lol:

Seriously though, if you're ever down my way, then you're welcome to have a couple of beers
 
kelack said:
Nope :D my beer :lol:

Seriously though, if you're ever down my way, then you're welcome to have a couple of beers
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I think I would like that, thank you.

Through the ol' Dartford Tunnel for a pic, a pint and a pie.:thumbs:
 
Sorry to hijack your thread Phil.

Can I ask the boys and girls what lenses you use for team photo's please?

Thanks in advance.
 
AFC said:
100% right there Mark. As you know I am one of the club photographers for Southend RFC and I dont get paid, unless I get one of my shots sent to the local rags and then I get paid a set fee.

As a thank you from the club I get a free years club membership, taken to away matches so no driving or petrol costs.

Come rain, shine, snow, hail etc etc etc I love it and wouldn't miss it for the world.
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Totally not the case in my book, Been club photographer for last 6 years and been paid for last 5 years, Infact this year have been kept on a retainer with quite a few other perks too. Club photographers are more than just earning their stripes
 
You make a good point Ste, I neglected to say my husband also plays for my rugby club so that's the main reason I stay. :)

And a pic and a pint maybe Martin, but no pies

For my team photos, I use my 18-55 lens
 
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